Voice Your Opposition to The Public Sector Unions!

CityCentreMan

Our great leaders are dithering at the moment as to whether to cave in to the Public Service Unions or to stand up to them.

They did not like the last strike and they are afraid of another one. At the same time they were taken aback by Joe Public's reaction as demonstrated on Joe Duffy Show and with calls direct to backbenchers and TD's offices etc.

Like rabbits caught in a spotlight they are undecided which way to jump. In the absence of any leadership or decisive qualities, it is up to us, the silent majority to assist them by letting them know how we feel.

Get on the phone, send them an email and make your feelings clear because this is probably the last day that we have to stop this ridiculous proposal. Full contact details for all Government Ministers are available here:

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Taoiseach_and_Government/List_of_Ministers_Ministers_of_State/

Brian Cowen Taoiseach taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie

Mary Coughlan Tánaiste and Minister forEnterprise, Trade and Employment tanaiste@entemp.ie

Brian Lenihan Finance minister@finance.gov.ie

Mary Harney Health and Children minister's_office@health.irlgov.ie

Noel Dempsey Transport minister@transport.ie

Dermot Ahern Justice, Equality and Law Reform info@justice.ie

Micheál Martin Foreign Affairs minister@dfa.ie

Martin Cullen Arts, Sport and Tourism martincullen@dast.gov.ie

*Éamon Ó Cuív Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs *aire@pobail.ie

Mary Hanafin Social and Family Affairs minister@welfare.ie

Willie O'Dea Defence minister@defence.irlgov.ie

John Gormley Environment, Heritage and Local Government minister@environ.ie

Eamon Ryan Communications, Energy and Natural Resources minister.ryan@dcenr.gov.ie

Brendan Smith Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Minister@agriculture.gov.ie


Batt O'Keefe Education and Science minister_okeeffe@education.gov.ie

Rb

Can you post this without the html? It's unreadable.

Well, I'm sure it's readable, but I'm not arsed trawling through html code to do so.

gandalf

TBH your best bet is to actually put pressure on your local FF Td's they are the ones that are wavering. I have sent out emails about my displeasure (politely) to my 2 local FF td's. The more people that do the better, they are already running scared based on the media and public backlash yesterday. So much so that I got the following response back from a government minister no less.

There is no deal so the actual premise on which your email is based is somewhat flawed. The idea of unpaid leave has no status other than being a proposal from the trade unions.

I think the word is flip flopping at the moment, they have no idea what to do.

Rb

gandalf wrote: »

TBH your best bet is to actually put pressure on your local FF Td's they are the ones that are wavering. I have sent out emails about my displeasure (politely) to my 2 local FF td's. The more people that do the better, they are already running scared based on the media and public backlash yesterday. So much so that I got the following response back from a government minister no less.



I think the word is flip flopping at the moment, they have no idea what to do.

In a way I feel sort of sorry for them, they only have themselves to blame but they're in quite a situation at the moment. They can cut the PS pay and face the possibility of prolonged strikes from 18% of the workforce, or they can not cut it and face absolute outrage from the other 82% of the workforce and will sign away the parties political future.

People are getting so angry these days too, we've been a nation of people who'll sit and moan from the comfort of our couches so far but I wouldn't be surprised to see people starting to take action. The private sector have been ridden like cheap whores over the last while and the public sector have dodged it and now that the chance to bring some equality in has been seemingly prevented I'll be interested to see what happens over the coming months.

That's just the PS ordeal too, I'm sure if they're going to do it right, an awful lot more people are going to be fuming over the budget.

bbam

Rb wrote: »

In a way I feel sort of sorry for them,

Why... They were elected to do a job and that includes making hard decisions, it's not like they're not well paid

Rb wrote: »

The private sector have been ridden like cheap whores over the last while and the public sector have dodged it

I think the pension and income levies applied to the PS had an effect on their income, it's just that more is required at some levels to ensure we have an afforadable system.

Rb wrote: »

I'm sure if they're going to do it right, an awful lot more people are going to be fuming over the budget.

I'm not sure about that... Most people expect this to be a budget of cuts and savings wherever they can be made, it needs to be seen to be fair.
Cuts need to be made over the next few years...

If we put them off this year it just means they will need to be made on the double in the future


Voice Your Opposition to The Public Sector Unions!
To be fair they're only doing their job... Unions aren't in existance to get fair play for all of society, their mandate it to get the the best deal for their members, no matter who they have to short change to get there.

The unions in this country were given a false importance through the Partnership deals... more of the tail wagging the dog

Rb

bbam wrote: »

Why... They were elected to do a job and that includes making hard decisions, it's not like they're not well paid

Oh absolutely, but at the moment no matter what they do a decent % of the population here is going to cry foul.

I think the pension and income levies applied to the PS had an effect on their income, it's just that more is required at some levels to ensure we have an afforadable system.

Well, it's common knowledge that the average PS worker was earning more than their private counterparts over the last few years, but at the moment the Private sector are facing mandatory paycuts, redundancies etc on top of the levies, I'd imagine the average wage in the private sector is dropping continuously, however the same can't be said about the PS.

That's just the crust as well, I'd imagine that those working in the private sector at the moment are working a damn sight harder for their money than their public sector counterparts, who, as we all know are seemingly untouchable regardless of the amount of work they choose to do, or not do as the case may be.

I'm not sure about that... Most people expect this to be a budget of cuts and savings wherever they can be made, it needs to be seen to be fair.
Cuts need to be made over the next few years...

If we put them off this year it just means they will need to be made on the double in the future

It needs to be seen as fair, however at the moment how many people feeling the pinch are going to see any further cuts as "fair"? People naturally tend to see themselves as the victims in a lot of these type situations afterall.

Coupled with the resentment towards the Government, and it being seen as essentially "them"(the Government) taking more of "our"(the people's) money without cutting their own pay or conditions.

CityCentreMan

If anyone does use the above email addresses to write our great leaders, please also make the point that the cutbacks in the Public Service have to start at the top and and that the government needs to demonstrate leadership by cutting their own wages, pensions & expenses first!

With our Prime Minister paid a salary comparable to the President of the USA, it is not surprising that the Public Sector find pay cuts hard to accept.

The message is simple:
1) Dont back down to the Public Service Unions &
2) Demonstrate leadership by cutting wages, expenses & pensions at cabinet & government level first!

Get writing now!

bbam

CityCentreMan wrote: »

With our Prime Minister paid a salary comparable to the President of the USA, it is not surprising that the Public Sector find pay cuts hard to accept.

We have a Prime Minister?? :eek:

CityCentreMan

Taoiseach I believe means "Leader". Prime Minister is more appropriate!:)

gandalf

Maybe we can rename him the Sub-Prime Minister.

Cuchulain

Rb wrote: »

The private sector have been ridden like cheap whores over the last while and the public sector have dodged it

What? Please provide some reasoning behind this ludicrous comment.

ardmacha

but at the moment the Private sector are facing mandatory paycuts, redundancies etc on top of the levies,

A minority of the private sector have faced paycuts, some have had increases, everyone in the public sector has faced paycuts.

Scofflaw

I appreciate there's obvious reasons why this thread could turn into the usual "oh no they didn't...oh yes they did" handbag match, but seriously, people, it's really tedious.

moderately weary,
Scofflaw

Long Onion

Up until now, I have remained detached from the current political wranglings in relation to our present economic crises. This being so, recent news regarding the Trade Unions proposals to resolve the public spending issue have incensed me to the point that I feel I must make my views known.

We are currently faced with a situation which affords our Government the opportunity to make meaningful structural changes which will benefit the entire country over the years to come. The realisation of the gravity of our financial situation is becoming known to all, and there is a real sense of a sea-change in public opinion. The vast majority of the public are now in the position whereby they realise that drastic steps need to be taken if we are to weather the storm with any degree of effect.

Whilst many families are finding the current situation distressing, most realise that we will all have to bear a degree of pain now in return for a degree of much needed certainty in the future. With this as a background, there has never been a better chance for tough decisions to be swallowed and implemented.

The reason I am so concerened is that it appears that this opportunity is to be squandered in return for appeasing the Public Sector unions and a proportion of their members. The idea that the gaping hole in the public sector wage bill can be plugged by introducing 12 days unpaid leave is a fudge of the highest order. It is akin to a bank offering a distressed developer the option to roll up interest in the hope that next year will be better - and we are all too accutely aware of how that situation has panned out.

I firmly believe that this appraoch will do no more than prolong the pain until 2011 and onwards. The cost of funding the pensions bill will not be addressed, nor will the current system of allowances, nor the headcount, the provision of services, the productivity of the system in general or the payroll.

Working in a heavily unionised sector myself, I am aware that often, the Unions decide to pursue policies informed by their own secular thinking and not by the will of their members, they will later try to sell this idea to the membership as being the best deal. From talking to friends, colleagues and clients, it seems to me that public support is very thin on the ground when it comes to this proposal.

I know of very few who are willing to suffer a further reduction in healthcare and educational services which will impact on their children, parents and other loved ones, just so Messrs O'Connor and Co. can say that they have staved off a pay cut for members.

The black and white of the issue is that the unpaid leave idea will equate to a circa 5% reduction in income across the board, so why is there a refusal to grab the proverbial bull by the horns and deal with the substantive issue. Implement the pay reductions, but do so on a staggered basis, with the largest burden being borne by those at the apex who have the broadest shoulders.

As a constituent of yours, I would implore you to lead by example on this issue, call for a reduction in pay across the public sector, beginning with Ministers, TD'd and high level public servants. Ignoring the situation will only serve to heap pain on pain and leave us all picking up the tab for many years to come.

I thank you for your time in reading this mail and look forward to some real change in the tough times to come.

Regards

ei.sdraob

ill democratically voice my opposition come the election day

CityCentreMan

Well done Long Onion. Very articulate & well thought out reply.

CityCentreMan

This the email that I sent to the Taoiseach & Ministers yesterday with regard to the 12 days for Christmas proposal...

Dear Ministers,

These words cannot express how strongly I oppose the proposal to reduce the working year for the Public Sector Employees.

This may well save you a few days of industrial action but the ongoing consequences will be much more severe both for the country and for you as a government:

a)It will undermine your credibility in terms of your ability to govern the country;
b)It will not sufficiently help the financial situation of the country;
c)It will be and will clearly be perceived as grossly unfair.

The Public Service cost has to be reduced both in terms of pay levels and numbers employed. This can not be achieved if you continue to back down to the unions.

The Irish people did’nt vote for the union leaders and most vehemently oppose these proposals.

The people of Ireland voted you in as our government and we are entitled to demand leadership.

By leadership I mean:

a)That you lead by example and that you start with bigger and deeper pay cuts at Government / Ministerial level;
b)That you stand up to vested interest groups and act in the overall good of the people of Ireland , rather than bow to the wishes of minority groupings who are either vociferous or have the ability to cause disruption to the rest of us;
c)That you set out a vision for the future which is credible, achievable and is one that most people want to buy in to;
d)That you convince the people of Ireland, as you convinced them of Lisbon the second time, of the need, the fairness and the desirability of accepting short term pain for longer term pain.

For my part, I do have a vested interest – it is myself, my family, my company & my country. In the last two years we have gone from 14 employees to 3. My personal income is down by over 60% and we have cut other wages in the business by 20%. My pension fund value is down by over 50% and I will be lucky to stay in business if things do not improve in the new year.

irish_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

A minority of the private sector have faced paycuts, some have had increases, everyone in the public sector has faced paycuts.

those are merley statistical details

here are some more
public sector workers earn on average 25% more ( 2007 figures ) than those in the private sector
a significant number of private sector workers are minimum wage earners who cannot legally recieve a pay cut
public sector workers have twice as much holidays and take twice as many sick days as those in the private sector

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

those are merley statistical details

here are some more
public sector workers earn on average 25% more ( 2007 figures ) than those in the private sector
a significant number of private sector workers are minimum wage earners who cannot legally recieve a pay cut
public sector workers have twice as much holidays and take twice as many sick days as those in the private sector

3% of the workforce earn the minimum wage. Hardly a significant number

johnathan woss

irish_bob wrote: »

public sector workers have twice as much holidays

I don't believe that for a second bob, you'll have to post a detailed source for that one.

Or are you taking a secondary school teacher as being representative of the "public sector worker" ?

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

public sector workers have twice as much holidays and take twice as many sick days as those in the private sector

Leaving teachers out of it, what PS workers get 42 days holidays a year??

While I dont agree with it but they are permitted so many sick days a year. They cant be questioned about them. If private sector workers had this they would use it too. The problem is the system not the workers.

gurramok

Taxipete29 wrote: »

3% of the workforce earn the minimum wage. Hardly a significant number

The poster probably meant 'around' the Min wage. Nearly 40% earn below 20k a year where min wage is about 18k.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63041551&postcount=26

Do you think most of that 40% are in the public sector? :rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Leaving teachers out of it, what PS workers get 42 days holidays a year??

While I dont agree with it but they are permitted so many sick days a year. They cant be questioned about them. If private sector workers had this they would use it too. The problem is the system not the workers.

Some of us have principles poster.

To say that workers who had 12 sick days and would take them is a system fault is ludricous.

That's what's wrong with this country when that kind of attitude is peddled.

danman

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Leaving teachers out of it, what PS workers get 42 days holidays a year??

While I dont agree with it but they are permitted so many sick days a year. They cant be questioned about them. If private sector workers had this they would use it too. The problem is the system not the workers.

I take great offense to this statement.

I've worked in the private sector for 20 years.
I've got a chronic illness that can be debilitating at times.

Over the past 20 years I've taken 35 days off sick. I know exactly how many. 30 of those days was while I was in hospital, including various surgeries.

I have a concience. If I can drag myself out of bed, I'll go into work.

If I'd wanted, I could be on the disability allowance. People don't just avail of sick days because they are there.
It's bred from the in built "screw the system" mentality in certain quarters.

You might think that others would have this same mentality, because all you see is puplic servants with this attitude, but you don't know the reality of the real world on the outside.

murphaph

Spot on. I worked for a large multi national in Ireland for 8 years and they were reasonably lenient on sick days (3 in a row or more required a sick note). I took one week off (altogether) due to chronic flu one winter. That's it in the 8 years and I know people who took fewer days off, despite "the system" in that company allowing it. There were a few chancers who tried it on with groups of two day sick periods (Friday and Monday mostly) and the company (rightly) reserved the right to demand a sick cert from those employees at any time. Of course if you tried to introduce that policy in the PS the unions would probably go on strike to protect woorkers' roights.

UNCERTIFIED SICK DAYS ARE NOT HOLIDAYS!

Taxipete29

gurramok wrote: »

The poster probably meant 'around' the Min wage. Nearly 40% earn below 20k a year where min wage is about 18k.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63041551&postcount=26

Do you think most of that 40% are in the public sector? :rolleyes:

There is a difference between the min wage and around the min wage. I was responding to what he said which was incorrect. If he meant as you suggest then he should be more clear.

Riskymove

murphaph wrote: »

Spot on. I worked for a large multi national in Ireland for 8 years and they were reasonably lenient on sick days (3 in a row or more required a sick note). I took one week off (altogether) due to chronic flu one winter. That's it in the 8 years and I know people who took fewer days off, despite "the system" in that company allowing it. There were a few chancers who tried it on with groups of two day sick periods (Friday and Monday mostly) and the company (rightly) reserved the right to demand a sick cert from those employees at any time. Of course if you tried to introduce that policy in the PS the unions would probably go on strike to protect woorkers' roights.

UNCERTIFIED SICK DAYS ARE NOT HOLIDAYS!

that policy is very similar to the civil service one outlined in the report being quoted

a majority of the civil service took 3 or less sick days

41% took none at all

the averages are pushed up by the minority of people on periods of medium to long-term sick leave

Taxipete29

danman wrote: »

I take great offense to this statement.

I've worked in the private sector for 20 years.
I've got a chronic illness that can be debilitating at times.

Over the past 20 years I've taken 35 days off sick. I know exactly how many. 30 of those days was while I was in hospital, including various surgeries.

I have a concience. If I can drag myself out of bed, I'll go into work.

If I'd wanted, I could be on the disability allowance. People don't just avail of sick days because they are there.
It's bred from the in built "screw the system" mentality in certain quarters.

You might think that others would have this same mentality, because all you see is puplic servants with this attitude, but you don't know the reality of the real world on the outside.

Reality?? Give me a break. I am self-employed and when I am sick I dont get a penny from anyone. That was my choice and I am not complaining but dont presume to think that I dont know about reality.

It makes me laugh that people are getting on their high horse at the mere suggestion that they would avail of such sick days were they available while at the same time they assume that most of the PS workers are out to screw he system in this respect. Very hypocrytical imo