Anybody been asked to drop some guns?

sixpointfive

I got a call from the FO this eve telling me that the super has my apps on his desk and he thinks i have too many guns, he is telling me i have to hand up two licences, end of, i told him i have had this many guns for years and never a bother and he says the super thinks i have an arsenal and i have to cut it, so i say i want to meet the super and he rang back to say i have to meet an inspector now and he will deal with it, wtf ?? am i pissing up a down-pipe here??

rrpc

sixpointfive wrote: »

I got a call from the FO this eve telling me that the super has my apps on his desk and he thinks i have too many guns, he is telling me i have to hand up two licences, end of, i told him i have had this many guns for years and never a bother and he says the super thinks i have an arsenal and i have to cut it, so i say i want to meet the super and he rang back to say i have to meet an inspector now and he will deal with it, wtf ?? am i pissing up a down-pipe here??

Read the note from the NARGC on the other thread. There's not much to add to that except to reinforce the fact that the same Super gave you licences for the 'arsenal', so was he having an out of body experience at the time?

As the NARGC said, his job is to make a decision not play 'hide the firearms' with you.

Cass

Originally Posted by Sparks

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO GUN CLUB MEMBERS
IN THE BALBRIGGAN GARDA DISTRICT

NARGC has been consulted by a significant number of it’s Gun Blub members in the Balbriggan Garda District who have reported being requested by the Balbriggan Garda Superintendent, or by Officers on his behalf, to surrender some firearms where the licence holders have had several guns previously licensed. We are informed that, for example, where more than one shotgun or rifle may have been licensed previously the applicant is being told to pick one as only one will be licensed and that the reason for this is that the Superintendent intends to reduce the number of licensed guns in his District.

NARGC advises Gun Club Members not to give in to this pressure. If they succumb to this, then the Garda Superintendent avoids having to make a decision, particularly a negative decision which can be challenged in the District Court. If gun owners make a choice and give up a gun under this kind of pressure they will not be able to lodge any appeal to the District Court because the Superintendent will not have made a negative decision.

Gun owners who are confronted by the Gardai requesting them to make this kind of choice should politely refuse and insist that the Superintendent is in possession of perfectly valid applications and that he will have to make his decision. Where he decides to refuse certificates for firearms he has licensed in the past, he will simply have to come to the District Court and justify his decision under cross examination when appeals are lodged.

NARGC has instructed it’s legal advisors in relation to this matter and is now anxious to receive written submissions from all NARGC Gun Club members in the Balbriggan Garda District who have been presented, either at a meeting or over the telephone, with the aforementioned option.

Details to:
NARGC,
6, Sandford Road
Ranelagh
Dublin 6
Tele: 01-497 4888
Fax: 01-497 4828
Email: nargc@iol.ie

Don't know if you are a member of the NARGC or not but still, a good bit of advice.

johngalway

Give him nothin!

sixpointfive

Thanks, as it happens, i have been ringing the station all week trying to get the FO to see can i change a rimfire and a shotgun for another fullbore of the same caliber as the one i have(2 licences for 1), might not sound like much sense in that but the second one is for driven boar hunts, the original one for deer stalking, same calibre, two completley different types of gun, that would bring the arsenal down to five, i also had them out here a couple of weeks ago inspecting my security setup, taking photos and checking all my calibres/serial numbers, they said i had more than enough security, now a big u-turn, the FO says, "too many guns for one man, be different if there was three or four shooters in the house" , how is that different?? still same amount of guns in same house.. back to the old make the rules to suit job again..:mad:

Sparks

If there was three or four shooters in the house, wouldn't he be worried about whether one of them could gain access to the firearms of the others? :rolleyes:

kowloon

Time to change district methinks.

bunny shooter

Looks like my theory is right

My Super previously told me 4 was the most licences he would allow me, same as yourself, strange that

cavan shooter

I'd say that this one will blow up pretty quick and its going to get messy. BTW four licences was an un written rule going back years

meathshooter

In the popular questions relating to firearms applications section on the garda website the question of how many firearms you can have is brought up.It states that there is NO limit but there are new requirements in security in short. http://garda.ie/Documents/User/Popular%20questions%204.pdf

cavan shooter

yep, and thats why I'm saying this will blow up soon it to a full blown row.
I feel its gone too far for it to be solved in an amicable fashion

sixpointfive

I have all the requirements and more for six firearms and they know coz they were here three weeks ago and still have this crap tp deal with, im meeting the inspector at 5 this eve

Traumadoc

I only have received license for 3 of my 5 firearms, difficult to get through to the FO, I have a feeling I may be refused my second fullbore and 2nd rimfire.

deerhunter1

sixpointfive wrote: »

I got a call from the FO this eve telling me that the super has my apps on his desk and he thinks i have too many guns, he is telling me i have to hand up two licences, end of, i told him i have had this many guns for years and never a bother and he says the super thinks i have an arsenal and i have to cut it, so i say i want to meet the super and he rang back to say i have to meet an inspector now and he will deal with it, wtf ?? am i pissing up a down-pipe here??

A mate of mine living in Kilrush who has held a 12G auto and a winchester wingmaster pump for a number of years was told ecently by his F/O that the super will not licence his pump this year and to hand it in, which he did to his local station I believe. I wonder where or who has i now

Hezz700

sixpointfive wrote: »

im meeting the inspector at 5 this eve

Best of luck to you. Let us know how you get on if you feel up to it.

bunny shooter

6.5 hope it went well for you

sixpointfive

Right, not good, went down, had all my permissions, coillte permits n sitch, he sits at the desk and says, you have six applications here, you have to pick the four that you want to keep as you are only getting four end of story, so i ask why and he says we think you have too many and two have to go, i say thats not good enough reason, selective deafness, bottom line here is its four and no more, and he also says im not the only one getting this treatment, i will get my selected four and get refusals for the other two and if i want i can go to the distict court. four is the new limit he tells me even tho i have it in black and white in my hand from the garda website that there is no limit,he says i dont care what that says you have been told where you stand, makin up the rules again , complete pile of crap. Legal road. not happy.

It wasn't me!

sixpointfive wrote: »

Right, not good, went down, had all my permissions, coillte permits n sitch, he sits at the desk and says, you have six applications here, you have to pick the four that you want to keep as you are only getting four end of story, so i ask why and he says we think you have too many and two have to go, i say thats not good enough reason, selective deafness, bottom line here is its four and no more, and he also says im not the only one getting this treatment, i will get my selected four and get refusals for the other two and if i want i can go to the distict court. four is the new limit he tells me even tho i have it in black and white in my hand from the garda website that there is no limit,he says i dont care what that says you have been told where you stand, makin up the rules again , complete pile of crap. Legal road. not happy.

That is disgusting, cynical treatment. I wish you well if you plan on pursuing this further. There's no basis in law for this artificial limit, and it needs to be recognised as such.

bunny shooter

sixpointfive wrote: »

Right, not good, went down, had all my permissions, coillte permits n sitch, he sits at the desk and says, you have six applications here, you have to pick the four that you want to keep as you are only getting four end of story, so i ask why and he says we think you have too many and two have to go, i say thats not good enough reason, selective deafness, bottom line here is its four and no more, and he also says im not the only one getting this treatment, i will get my selected four and get refusals for the other two and if i want i can go to the distict court. four is the new limit he tells me even tho i have it in black and white in my hand from the garda website that there is no limit,he says i dont care what that says you have been told where you stand, makin up the rules again , complete pile of crap. Legal road. not happy.

TBH I got that same lecture and attitude last year :eek:

And we were told things were gonna be better :mad:

ivanthehunter

Sparks wrote: »

If there was three or four shooters in the house, wouldn't he be worried about whether one of them could gain access to the firearms of the others? :rolleyes:

WHAT!!
Is this you showing off your darker side:D

ivanthehunter

sixpointfive wrote: »

Right, not good, went down, had all my permissions, coillte permits n sitch, he sits at the desk and says, you have six applications here, you have to pick the four that you want to keep as you are only getting four end of story, so i ask why and he says we think you have too many and two have to go, i say thats not good enough reason, selective deafness, bottom line here is its four and no more, and he also says im not the only one getting this treatment, i will get my selected four and get refusals for the other two and if i want i can go to the distict court. four is the new limit he tells me even tho i have it in black and white in my hand from the garda website that there is no limit,he says i dont care what that says you have been told where you stand, makin up the rules again , complete pile of crap. Legal road. not happy.

What is it with the gardai! can they not just implement the system which was arranged by smarter people than them!!

Also is it not a complete breach of the law to make such statements to any firearms owner!

meathshooter

ring the nargc and let them know.soft targets again made by people who probably cant tell the difference of caliber and there practical uses in the field or sport(they are simply under trained in these matters).I can see where this is all leading D ahern self glorifying himself that he has taken so many firearms out of circulation trying to make him and his dying government look good, and from talking to garda I know this seems to be the objective.which for one sporting firearms where not a problem and two the criminals still have theres and are got from the drug trade and thats the problem not us.and this district court lark is a joke them judges are mates with the supers justice is blind my b****.Blind to the corruption that has gone on. I was told a few years ago the same not to apply for any more firearms that didn't stop me as I could show good reason for requiring them and I use all my firearms regularly for their intended propose.Where all the work that the FCP,and NGB done gone in one ear and out the other. back to the ould days of make it up as we go.rant over

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

WHAT!!
Is this you showing off your darker side:D

Nope, I'm just remembering several court cases from the UK where precisely that situation arose.

rrpc

sixpointfive wrote: »

Right, not good, went down, had all my permissions, coillte permits n sitch, he sits at the desk and says, you have six applications here, you have to pick the four that you want to keep as you are only getting four end of story, so i ask why and he says we think you have too many and two have to go, i say thats not good enough reason, selective deafness, bottom line here is its four and no more, and he also says im not the only one getting this treatment, i will get my selected four and get refusals for the other two and if i want i can go to the distict court. four is the new limit he tells me even tho i have it in black and white in my hand from the garda website that there is no limit,he says i dont care what that says you have been told where you stand, makin up the rules again , complete pile of crap. Legal road. not happy.

While you're in court, you might ask him to refund you the money for the security improvements he made you do to get the licences in the first place.

Seeing as according to him you don't need them anymore. :rolleyes:

My advice is to take it up with your NGB and get them to follow it up with the FPU for you.

Keep your applications in.

Kimber

In response to the Super's "Pick 4"

I said this once a few years back and at the time what I would call a "Bully" just kept on jumping on every thread I typed.

So again I say it.
In the context from your meeting with the Super and in response to "Pick 4".

Take a case of discrimination against the Super.

Before all the wanna be solicitors jump in.
I will repeat this again. I did it b4 and I won. End of.
My 2 bob boss.

happyjack

This is a very sad state of the nation when the Gardai bully sports people for no good reason, a friend of mine has moved to Canada and I can see why now.

I can remember here in Kerry when I tried to get a second 22 rifle, it took a few years as most Gardai kept refusing to accept the application saying that in Ireland you were only allowed one rifle, I kept saying they were wrong and eventually got a twenty two to go with my hornet, said I needed it for targets, it took 30 minutes of talking ballistics to the Garda and in the end when I explained that hornet ammo was 50 pence a round and 22 long rifle 5 pence he then said oh you could'nt be shooting targets at 50 pence a round I'll let you get the 22lr, then a year or two later I sold the hornet, swopped to a semi and B/A twenty two rifles and applied for a .220 Swift, said that 22 were not humane for foxes, which they are not really, got that, so I had one 22 for targets, one twenty two for rabbits, one high velocity 22 for foxes, back then I used to lamp foxes non stop, got that and went back asking for a deer rifle in .270, they had a melt down, but each time I put my application in by registered mail, and included a hand written letter explaining what purpose I had for the gun I was seeking the rifle. I dont remember how many applications the Gardai told me they lost, but it was a lot, how can a policeman lose sensitive info like that in a police station of all places.
Most of the time the local Garda would wink at me, I've checked your safe ok!

I remember once swopping over a 12 gauge semi for a OU Beretta I'd sold, got the semi from the UK new half price, any way my local Garda swopped the license over for me after a few tears and I never got a renewal for it! Never.

Two years later I called down to him and told him and he blamed the pulse system. That gun had just dropped off the licensing system totally. I'm not a crim, I'd prefer to just have a license.

I think they see us as extra work without over time. An old game shooter told me once, he said if you were beating your missus at 3 am once a week they'd be mad about you cause they'd be getting paid extra from your behavour, but because your just causing extra paper work they hate you, theres no over time in firearms licenses.

I reckon when they start carrying guns themselves then they will stop looking down at us and see us more on a par, but god save us when every Gardai gets hold of 9mm's, if they think 9mm's are a source of danger with target shooters, wait till all the Gardai carry them every day, should make for some lovely fireworks!:eek:

homerhop

happyjack wrote: »

I reckon when they start carrying guns themselves then they will stop looking down at us and see us more on a par, but god save us when every Gardai gets hold of 9mm's, if they think 9mm's are a source of danger with target shooters, wait till all the Gardai carry them every day, should make for some lovely fireworks!:eek:

Well since they want to use their draconian laws and class all us shooters as a danger to society perhaps we should remind them of their "capable use" of firearms.
January 1990, an armed gang attempted to rob the bank in Emily Square, Athy, the Gardaí had armed personnel from the Emergency Response Unit in place. Inside the bank staff and customers were held hostage; outside, the bank was surrounded.
The shoot-out that followed resulted in the death of one gang member, and several serious injuries. It was subsequently revealed that the gang had not fired any of their weapons.

On that day they didnt even push back the people off the square, a good size crowd gathered as people will do to look at what was going on and they were left standing not 20 yards from the bank entrance. One shot rang out and there was a free for all by the boys in blue. From what I can see the training hasnt improved a whole lot in the use of firearms since then.

Grizzly 45

Been plenty more since Athy...:rolleyes::rolleyes: Even a death by" friendly fire" a few years back.And they are worried that our guns fall into the "wrong hands"????

homerhop

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Been plenty more since Athy...:rolleyes::rolleyes: Even a death by" friendly fire" a few years back.And they are worried that our guns fall into the "wrong hands"????

yup but that one was closest to home and i still chuckle quietly to myself everytime i walk past the bank and see the bullet holes

johngalway

happyjack wrote: »

he said if you were beating your missus at 3 am once a week they'd be mad about you cause

They don't give a flying **** about domestics.

Kimber

johngalway wrote: »

They don't give a flying **** about domestics.

Never a truer word said:
Nor you
Your sport
The cost
Your club
Your worry

In return 200,000 odd firearms users may not pass on a bit of information that they would normally do.

bunny shooter

meathshooter wrote: »

ring the nargc and let them know....

They have advised me ".............The NARGC simply cannot become directly involved in each individual case. We don’t have the personnel resources to do that. We deal with issues which go to the heart of national policy and interpretation of the actual legislation. There are many matters which are really for the applicants themselves to justify or argue and this is one of them"

This reply is with regard to my Supers refusal to increase my ammo allowance from 250 rounds per licence and the Supers refusal to give me authoriation for a .22lr moderator.

So it seems we are really f**ked now !!!!!

So my choices are to contact FPU myself and/or find a solicitor and go to Court

Sparks

Hmmm.

On the other hand BS, one of the larger "victories" of late (the dropping of the licence fee hike plan) came about because everyone did something rather than leaving it all up to a single NGB.

Maybe the NARGC can provide at least technical assistance (ie. numbers for solicitors who're familiar with firearms legislation in each district) or the like?

happyjack

bunny shooter wrote: »

They have advised me ".............The NARGC simply cannot become directly involved in each individual case. We don’t have the personnel resources to do that. We deal with issues which go to the heart of national policy and interpretation of the actual legislation. There are many matters which are really for the applicants themselves to justify or argue and this is one of them"

This reply is with regard to my Supers refusal to increase my ammo allowance from 250 rounds per licence and the Supers refusal to give me authoriation for a .22lr moderator.

So it seems we are really f**ked now !!!!!

So my choices are to contact FPU myself and/or find a solicitor and go to Court

You can appeal it all in the district court, the form to send in is on Courts.ie, I have it, let ,me know if you need it and I'll email it to you.
I'm defending myself, it can be done.

Hope it works out,

HJ:)

bunny shooter

Thanks HJ !!!!!

Might go down that road myself what have I to loose

PM'd you my e-mail address can't find form on web site

Thank in advance

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Thanks HJ !!!!!

Might go down that road myself what have I to loose

waist of time bunny .

tom o learys case was more or less kicked out of court with out the right of appeal.

there all singing off the one sheet .the nargc are a discrace.

happyjack

jwshooter wrote: »

waist of time bunny .

tom o learys case was more or less kicked out of court with out the right of appeal.

there all singing off the one sheet .the nargc are a discrace.

My local district court tried that repeatedly on me, would not accept my appeal as it's the first one in the county and they never did it before, so just kept telling them it's my right to appeal, got the form for them, found it, and applied by registered mail twice.

Dont give up, don't give in.


HJ:)

jwshooter

happyjack wrote: »

My local district court tried that repeatedly on me, would not accept my appeal as it's the first one in the county and they never did it before, so just kept telling them it's my right to appeal, got the form for them, found it, and applied by registered mail twice.

Dont give up, don't give in.


HJ:)

so your sorted then

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

waist of time bunny .

tom o learys case was more or less kicked out of court with out the right of appeal.

there all singing off the one sheet .the nargc are a discrace.

Welcome back, you were missed

I know it's a waste of time BUT it's their time too And if enough of us do this someone somewhere has to take notice Just doing MY bit

Not aware of Tom O'Learys case What exactly was he trying to appeal ?

Maybe NARGC can do nothing either

bunny shooter

happyjack what form am I looking for ?

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Welcome back, you were missed

I know it's a waste of time BUT it's their time too And if enough of us do this someone somewhere has to take notice Just doing MY bit

Not aware of Tom O'Learys case What exactly was he trying to appeal ?

Maybe NARGC can do nothing either

the old problem BS , i thought this new legislation was going to be black and white its not so .

some are getting centre fire pistols most are not . same with mods, wrong ammo allowances etc.
some are been rode on the rim by supers that dont like us having any form of firearm.
a stalking friend and i sent in our applications in to enniscorthy the same week .6 weeks ago he has his (licences) back 3 weeks now i got my letter stating i should get word with in 3 months today.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

the old problem BS , i thought this new legislation was going to be black and white its not so .

some are getting centre fire pistols most are not . same with mods, wrong ammo allowances etc.
some are been rode on the rim by supers that dont like us having any form of firearm.....................

+1

meathshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

happyjack what form am I looking for ?

Its form 101 afaik http://courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/39052bd54fd538f280257642003bbe4b?OpenDocument the clerk of the court would confirm this and anybody can lodge an appeal you don't have to be a solicitor but one would be advisable

Grizzly 45

I think I have aplan.....Render unto the supers what is their due.
IOW GIVE them what they want!.If say you have four guns ,put two in STORAGE in your local dealer.But here is the clever bit..Two or three weeks later,apply for them to be taken out of storage,as you will need them for a specific type of shoot or competition ,say four weeks time,and put the other two in storage.Three weeks later,apply again for the other two in storage to be taken out again.And on and on...If this sounds like a paperwork nightmare..It is!.Create so much paperwork for them and multiply this by a hundred fold for any Super that is refusing to issue more than this nonsenseical two limit.Do not accept any sort of "Ah shure work away on the other gun liscenses for the two in storage.You will be grand" excuses.The law is the law and it must be followed properly to the letter...
If that creates a paperwork nightmare and crash for a Govt dept...well sorry! IOW create a paper backlog,by" applying to rule."Your firearms,and your right to apply for use of them if they are in storage.

I really feel sad that we have to go down these kind of routes,but this legislation which was supposed to even up things,regulate and simplify the granting of liscenses etc.But all it has seemingly done is to allow some supers and CS to go off even further off the rails on the liscensing.:( They are creating a Them and Us situation with gunowners and Gardai,if this is the only way we can protest against Garda obduracy ..then so be it.

freddieot

Be careful putting ANYTHING in storage !

This whole thing is a minefield. Don't do anything without qualified legal advice.

You may not win by crossing your Ts and dotting your Is but you will lose if you don't !

cavan shooter

Everyone is upset for one reason or an other and rightly so, unfortunately this isnt going to be fixed over night For what its worth, The NARGC are collecting submissions from members in relation to al the hassels being described, i.e

4 gun only
wrong ammunition
silincers refused when requested
etc etc,

Secretatries have been asked to pass this on to their members and tell them to submit same.

Defending yourself in court, and in my day I have seen lots of people doing this may seem like a good idea, but from my experience, they get eat, beat and shlit on. You need to know your topic and the law very well and then you have to get past a District Court Judge.

On the other side, there are gardai out there applying the commissioners guidelines, helping lads through forms, ringing secretaries of clubs looking for lists of current members etc and no hassle, so lets not go running about with a big paint brush

Grizzly 45

Sorry I dont quite see what is the problem legal minefield or otherwise,of putting your guns in storage and then asking those to be taken out and your others to be put in?????????Sombody like to clarify the "legal minefield" on a perfectly ligit firearms movement under Irish law????
CS
Remember too that as a layman defending yourself,you indeed have a fool for a client[coined no doubt by somone in the legal profession].However for some people it might be their only option at the moment.Seeing that the shooting organisations here dont have a legal counsel on a retainer to act as a "fire brigade" for their members..

4gun

can you wife licence the other two with out having to put them into storage....I know that giving the missus a gun can be a risky venture...:D but better than getting rid of it

Grizzly 45

My two already are..:D Thats me aul one,and the girlfriend that is.I'm not a Mormon:eek::D.Then expect them to be quizzed as to why as "women" they want guns???Sexisim is still alive and well in the mindset of the powers that be....Hmmm maybe we could get the "sisterhood" involved in shooting??.You dont mess with the Irish "Wimmins" council at your peril:eek:

BTW a risky venture only if you let them near the ammo as well.

4gun

BTW a risky venture only if you let them near the ammo as well.[/quote]


Dont you know a woman would never shoot you with a gun......there be too much of a mess made that they'd be left with to clean up:D
they're most likely to batter you with it:P

bunny shooter

cavan shooter wrote: »

Everyone is upset for one reason or an other and rightly so, unfortunately this isnt going to be fixed over night For what its worth, The NARGC are collecting submissions from members in relation to al the hassels being described, i.e

4 gun only
wrong ammunition
silincers refused when requested
etc etc,

Secretatries have been asked to pass this on to their members and tell them to submit same.

Defending yourself in court, and in my day I have seen lots of people doing this may seem like a good idea, but from my experience, they get eat, beat and shlit on. You need to know your topic and the law very well and then you have to get past a District Court Judge.

On the other side, there are gardai out there applying the commissioners guidelines, helping lads through forms, ringing secretaries of clubs looking for lists of current members etc and no hassle, so lets not go running about with a big paint brush

But we were told everything was gonna be great once the Guidelines were published and that we were all going to be treated the same. More fool us for believing it. Imagine, beleiving we were gonna be treated fairly and with respect by certain members of the Gardai :rolleyes: The Gardai were going to be "accountable" :rolleyes:, grandfathering :rolleyes:, restricted is not prohibited :rolleyes:, silencers were not going to be a problem :rolleyes:, increased ammo allowances :rolleyes:, tell your NGB if you have hassle they'll get onto FPU :rolleyes:, and I can go on.

More like keep 'em talking while we set up the legislation to shaft them gits once and for all.