Why Can't The Irish Make Good TV Shows?

Hank_Jones

Seriously, why can't they make any good tv shows?

The news is probably the best thing on RTE and that's so sad I think I'm going to cry....

The last really great Irish tv show was Father Ted and that wasn't even made by RTE.

They really need to shake things up, giving Jason Byrne his own show and giving him free reign, doesn't take a genius to realise that it isn't going to work...

Nice to see theres still Irish talent on tv though, on the BBC...

The Pontiac

I'm not too sure if you're referring specifically to dramas or just shows in general. We had this discussion in another thread recently. I'm of the opinion that RTE can indeed make great dramas (Pure Mule, Bachelors Walk, Love is the Drug etc.) - but someone pointed out that the cost of making this kind of drama is far too great to keep it running long-term (they were all mini-series). It would be very hard to sell Pure Mule to an American or UK audience - would they get the rural Irish humour, or even understand the Offaly accent? If these dramas were sold globally (like US dramas) and had a greater universal appeal; then it would be sustainable to keep them running and to make other good dramas.

As for the rest of the stuff RTE broadcasts, I don't think it's as bad as people make out at all. The Late Late Show could definitely do with a bigger budget to attract more A-list celebrities, but I think Tubridy is doing very a good job overall. The sports commentary/analysis leaves every other station for dead. The political and current affairs programmes are all top-drawer. The View with John Kelly reviews films that other stations just wouldn't touch. My mother loves Nationwide and a few other things too..

Fair City needs to go though, it's just embarrassing at this stage.

Hank_Jones

If the shows were good enough and produced to a high enough quality then we could probably sell them to Britain. If you look at the new Ardal O'Hanlon show Val Falvey TD, it's just awful, it looks like something a bunch of film students threw it together.
It's funny that Father Ted is still played on tv here and RTE had the chance to make it. If they had made it then we could have sold that abroad. I don't see why we can't make shows that transcend nationality. If you look at the film Once it was a very Irish film but it had that something that people liked, if something is good enough then we will be able to export it, we haven't had anything that is good enough in a long time though.

If only we made Top Gear...

120_Minutes

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's funny that Father Ted is still played on tv here and RTE had the chance to make it.

please dont make me say it....

A Disgrace

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Seriously, why can't they make any good tv shows?

..

Hey Hank, judging by the above quote and thread title, you're obviously not Irish. Where are you from and what's the quality of TV like there? Just so we can compare

asdfgh86

A Disgrace wrote: »

Hey Hank, judging by the above quote and thread title, you're obviously not Irish. Where are you from and what's the quality of TV like there? Just so we can compare

I would imagine he means 'they' as in Rte.

ArmaniJeanss

I'm not sure how commercial even something as good as Father Ted would be outside of UK&Ireland. OK you might get a few sales for use as fillers on obscure German satellite stations but I doubt Ted makes more than pennies from the foreign market.
And also it has nowhere near enough episodes to be a hit in the US.

We actually do a lot of stuff well as Ollie says... sports, news, politics are all very good but obviously none of this is sellable.

From a commercial viewpoint if RTE want to flog product around the world they should look at what actually makes the BBC their big money in the foreign market.
And as I understand its (in no particular order) a) Education programmes like their huge Open University output b) nature docs by the likes of David Attenborough etc c) costume dramas d) light entertainment especially Top Gear style programmes.

Costume dramas probably require too much of an initial outlay and we don't have the royalty/upper-class/JaneAusten heritage that the BBC seem to base most of their costume dramas on anyway.

So maybe RTE should look to break into the Top Gear / Blue Planet / Open University style of programming?

MikeC101

<Ollie> wrote: »

It would be very hard to sell Pure Mule to an American or UK audience - would they get the rural Irish humour, or even understand the Offaly accent?

Heck, even I found the accents a bit much, and I'm from Offaly!

Though it was good drama, the accents were all over the place - the worst example being the sisters with the wildly different accents.

J.Ryan

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not sure how commercial even something as good as Father Ted would be outside of UK&Ireland. OK you might get a few sales for use as fillers on obscure German satellite stations but I doubt Ted makes more than pennies from the foreign market.
And also it has nowhere near enough episodes to be a hit in the US....

It was exported to the states where it was pulled after 2 or 3 shows because of complaints about church bashing

Duggy747

The BBC have bottomless pockets, the amount of money and work that goes into each series of their programmes is astonishing. They use the best of technology for their documentarites and get the best crew (Especially Directors Of Photography). A lot of time is invested into producing and researching these programmes, RTE want quick-fix programmes.

That being said RTE need to greenlight proper subjects for researching, instead of blowing the cash on mindless drivel and sending unfunny bastards for their "culture clash" programmes. Seriously, how many series thourghout the years have been about sending someone unfunny to another country doing pointless things? Many, many "factual" programmes they show are usually perposterous and over-the-top. They seem to have a different target audience in their sights which they need to seriously change.

The type of "comedy" RTE seem to think is funny is unbearable, has there actually been any type of real comedy series in the past 20 years?

Garden shows, property shows, fashion shows, etc. We pay them €150 for this?

The storyland project (Which the Hardy Bucks won last year) is aiming to find new talent. The "comedy" that was on offer their was pretty much what you see on RTE anyways, same could be said for some of the finalists this year.

RTE is a lost cause until there is massive changes in the department. Too much money is being paid to their "TV personalities". Change their outlook instead of filling up their schedule with foreign series.

Reeling in the years has always been my favourite programme from RTE, and that was made 7 years ago!

Ivan

I like to think its because of money. If RTE had the sort of budget that the BBC have for a run of the mill show like Merlin or the Robin Hood series our comedy might be a litt.le better and we might have more variety than the same rehashed shows we get nowadays. And maybe they might be more inclined to spend money to find talent, rather than just paying crazy amounts to the talent-challenged.

994

120_Minutes wrote: »

please dont make me say it....

Someone said once that this should be a 1-week ban and a stickie, which i fully support.

emick

Each episode of Top Gear is supposed to cost £600,000 ......no idea why.......but it gives you an idea of the amount of cash the BBC have.

jd007

emick wrote: »

Each episode of Top Gear is supposed to cost £600,000 ......no idea why.......but it gives you an idea of the amount of cash the BBC have.

:eek::eek:

Did you read this in the Daily Mail??:P

Keano

emick wrote: »

Each episode of Top Gear is supposed to cost £600,000 ......no idea why.......but it gives you an idea of the amount of cash the BBC have.

Please can people stop with the Top Gear. If RTE attempted to make its own version you would have people bashing their keyboards saying how ****e it is! Can we not try think of original show ideas and stop copying our neighbours.

emick, bye the way I am not having a dig at you.

Sleazus

It really can't be that ridiculous for a nation that prides itself on culture so much to simply get some talented writers together, say "we want a show we can run for a number of years which isn't a soap or a gardening show" and watch the magic happen.

There's filming taking place outside my office on Harcourt Steet now. It's for the BBC.

The last great Irish drama was Strumpet City. Now that's depressing.

L31mr0d

I thought "Prosperity" was fantastic.

Keano

L31mr0d wrote: »

I thought "Prosperity" was fantastic.

It certainly was and others will argue that it was typical Irish crap!! I can't help but think some people will always just put down Irish shows. Its the Irish way.

Shane10

yes the bbc has loads more money than rte but its not all about the money IMO. there's no imagination in rte as far as i can see, its pathetic. like fair city and val falvey etc. you dont need money for something to be good. these are so childish and crap its unbelievable. yes our news and politics and sports programmes are brilliant but that because its just people giving there views. but when there is a script involved we havent a clue.

take paths to freedom. hardly a massive budget id say but we all loved it.
bang goes the myth that u have to pump money into something for it to be a success.

emick

The Savage Eye on Monday nights is home grown and pure class.

120_Minutes

emick wrote: »

The Savage Eye on Monday nights is home grown and pure class.

Hi david, hows the show going?

Elmo

It is great to see that only RTÉ are mention during this whole thread as though Setanta, TV3 and TG4 don't exist. This is certainly one of the problems with Irish TV the competition isn't competing so why should RTÉ try. In fairness to TG4 they do produce a wide range of good programming for their prime time schedule.

Also it is interesting to see people only talk about the BBC when C4, ITV, five, sky and virgin all exist in the UK. While the BBC, C4 and ITV produce a great a mount of worth while programming five, sky and virgin do nothing even though sky and vigin both make money from subs and could invest in TV making Sky spent 1,000,000 per episode on LOST ????? why not invest 22,000,000 into a 22 part series for Sky 1??????

Fair City isn't what I would rate Irish Drama upon. Why? Because I would not rate British drama on Eastenders, Coronation Street, Emmerdale, Holby City, The Bill, Casulty, The Royal, Heartbeat, Doctors, Hollyoaks and all of the other long running Soap Operas on British television.

As pointed out Strumpet City was the last big drama that RTÉ produced and it was translated into several languages including Russian (in 1980). But Strumpet City had on its side "period drama" which was all the rage in the late 1970s and early 1980s (North And South, Roots, Upstairs Downstairs, The Sulliavans etc etc). And as one of the makers pointed out Dublin in 1913 didn't look much different to Dublin in 1980.

I can imagine that Top Gear costs 600,000 to make, Insurance, Studio, On location filming, trips abroad plus all of the other things that make up such a show.

As for Irish Drama selling abroad RTÉ have had success with both The Clinic and Single Handed. However both are fairly straight forward dramas with little "Irish" content i.e. they could be based in any city or country.

In general terms Europe also has a problem with foreign sales all being American based. Why is it that in Prime Time television commercial operators (in non-English speaking countries) buy in Days of Our Lives over Ros Na Run, Fair City, EastEnders or any other European soap opera? after all it is going to be subtitled.

Monotype

The reason why the Irish don't make good tv shows, IMO, is because the lack of creative talent. It's well known that nepotism is rife in RTÉ. Also, paying half a million in getting someone with a recognised name doesn't really encourage me to watch if they're not interesting. Maybe some of the money could be shifted over to other stages of production.
The best efforts I've seen are from TG4, with a couple of programmes with decent writing and storylines, but a few more wouldn't go amiss.
TV3 seems to favour buying rights to or copying styles of external productions, rather than starting from scratch, but you need to dramatically improve upon the model to get viewers.

Dopey

I really enjoyed The Clinic and I'm sorry to see it go.

BaZmO*

I think it's down to the brain drain and cash.

RTE can and do make some good programs, they're just not consistent.

I think it's unfair to compare RTE to the BBC though. Both organisations may be national broadcasters but they have different agendas.

KTRIC

LOL, you all think RTE and the likes make bad shows !!! :rolleyes:

Come to Germany, pay €40 more for a TV licence and then put up with badly dubbed 15 year old shows and the local stuff consists of cooking and general interest shows.

Duggy747

KTRIC wrote: »

Come to Germany, pay €40 more for a TV licence and then put up with badly dubbed 15 year old shows and the local stuff consists of cooking and general interest shows.

Heh heh, German TV is pretty naff alrite, used to get it on the ol' satellite (1 channel used to always show the Death Wish movies in English). Plenty of awful "humour" shows but thats cuz they're German Lots of nudity. :pac:

TG4 do have the balls to go out and produce different series and documentaries (some of which are fantastic), a lot are hit or miss but they do try different topics. Plus they always run excellent movie marathons.

There is just this "Republic Of Dublin" clique with RTÈ, most programming is based on this "wonderful" city and anything else based outside it is bogger TV. They just need to take a serious look at their programming and quit with the reality tv. (It's all the bloody same with the same useless RTE personalities. What's Twink up to these days, the dirty biddy.) Their scheduling is horrific, there is no consistency towards the American shows they bring in.

Hank_Jones

A Disgrace wrote: »

Hey Hank, judging by the above quote and thread title, you're obviously not Irish. Where are you from and what's the quality of TV like there? Just so we can compare

I'm from ehhh Ireland, the quality of tv shows is sh***, that's what I'm complaining about, never did I intend to give the impression that I was from anywhere else.

iguana

Another big reason is that talented Irish tv and filmakers move abroad. They will generally make more money abroad. They don't have to deal with the massive egos of the big fish in Ireland's small pond. Massive egos on incredibly talented successful people are one thing. But even bigger egos on someone who wouldn't be able to have a career in any bigger less nepotistic market are unbearable. If someone working in tv has the talent to make it in a bigger market and not have to put up with as much shíte, they'll almost always go.

seanybiker

Last descent thing they done was Glenroe. Seriously, that was excellent.

KTRIC

seanybiker wrote: »

Last descent thing they done was Glenroe. Seriously, that was excellent.

Thats cause it looks like the boglands, isn't that right Seany ??

afatbollix

emick wrote: »

Each episode of Top Gear is supposed to cost £600,000 ......no idea why.......but it gives you an idea of the amount of cash the BBC have.

The budget for top gear is attually 2 million a esp and is the most expensive BBC2 program ( I cant find a quote on the interweb so i retract that statement.. But Im sure I seen it some where I think the figure I seen included what they pay the 3 lads)


The most expensive RTE program is 'would you believe' at 100,000 a esp.

An hour at prime time in the Uk is set at about £250,000 to make.

Elmo

afatbollix wrote: »

The most expensive RTE program is would you belive at 100,000 a esp.

Would You Beleive? Would You Believe? Would You Believe?

No Way!

But seriously Would You Believe! I mean its a good documentary series but 100,000 euro. No Way!

Or do you mean:- "Would you believe the most expensive programme on RTÉ is around 100,000 euro per hour?"

afatbollix

The RTE documentry seris 'would you believe' the budget is 100,000 a hour.

Saying that the roaring twentys had a budget of €120,000 and went over budget..

elshambo

Elmo wrote: »

Would You Beleive? Would You Believe? Would You Believe?

No Way!

But seriously Would You Believe! I mean its a good documentary series but 100,000 euro. No Way!

Or do you mean:- "Would you believe the most expensive programme on RTÉ is around 100,000 euro per hour?"

take a look on youtube for screenwipe's program on the price of making a tv show:eek:
a hint he claims that the extremely cheap looking screenwipe cost about £47,000 an ep to make

Wyndman

RTE will never make anything good because the whole place is inept and indifferent from the ground up.

No one in there with any authority has had any experience with a real broadcaster. They’re only interested in failing upwards to the higher salaries only RTE awards to people who do a useless job.

Again, here is the entertainment experience of the man in charge of RTE Entertainment who has overseen the last three years of pure muck.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1829744/

And as for nepotism, The Tubridy/Andrews/McSavages aside...

RTE has recommissioned a flagship talent show from a company for which five members of its commissioning editor, Eddie Doyle's extended family have worked.

The All-Ireland Talent Show has employed two sisters and a brother, a sister-in-law and brotherin-law of Mr Doyle, the station's commissioning editor for entertainment and music.

http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/mail-on-sunday-london-england-the/mi_8003/is_2009_Nov_1/ireland-doyle-family-talent-series/ai_n39405584/

At least FAS was entertaining.

Elmo

elshambo wrote: »

take a look on youtube for screenwipe's program on the price of making a tv show:eek:
a hint he claims that the extremely cheap looking screenwipe cost about £47,000 an ep to make

I know I posted that in another forum.

I am just surprised to here that WYB is the most expensive show on RTE.

RTE will never make anything good because the whole place is inept and indifferent from the ground up.

No one in there with any authority has had any experience with a real broadcaster. They’re only interested in failing upwards to the higher salaries only RTE awards to people who do a useless job.

What about TV3?

Wyndman

Elmo wrote: »

What about TV3?

I'm sorry. I don't follow Coronation Street.

(I'm not too bothered about TV3, they're just another minor commercial station like Sky 2 or something. RTE claim to be a public service broadcaster and I recently had to pay them 160 euro to indulge their fantasy.

I'd gladly pay the BBC one.

TheCandystripes

just not a funny people imo. the humour might be good down some pub in some boghole but on the screen whatever irish humour is nobody wants to see it.

994

from the article about the Doyles:

After an extensive investigation the MoS can reveal that:.

The series producer of the talent show is Eddie Doyle's sister, Noleen.

Noleen's husband, Paul Golding, has worked as a director of the show.

The head cameraman is Eddie Doyle's younger brother, Sean Doyle.

Eddie Doyle's sister, Erin, has worked as a production assistant and unofficial mentor for some of the younger musical acts taking part.

Eddie's sister-in-law, Catriona, who is married to Sean, has worked as a researcher for the programme.

How "extensive" is it to read the credits at the end of the show?

iguana

Wyndman wrote: »

(I'm not too bothered about TV3, they're just another minor commercial station like Sky 2 or something. RTE claim to be a public service broadcaster and I recently had to pay them 160 euro to indulge their fantasy.

TV3 do now get a portion of the license fee (€3m last year) and as such do have a partial public remit. They also appear to be the most watched channel with 15-24 year olds in Ireland. They've also started slamming RTE in the ratings on Monday nights.

enniscorthy

Elmo wrote: »

It is great to see that only RTÉ are mention during this whole thread as though Setanta, TV3 and TG4 don't exist. This is certainly one of the problems with Irish TV the competition isn't competing so why should RTÉ try. In fairness to TG4 they do produce a wide range of good programming for their prime time schedule.

hi mate dont forget the babes on the weather top totty or what :P

Elmo

iguana wrote: »

They also appear to be the most watched channel with 15-24 year olds in Ireland. They've also started slamming RTE in the ratings on Monday nights.

Bull**** from TV3 TBH. TV3 happen over 2 months to get above RTÉ One in the 15 - 24 year old age group, over the course of the year RTÉ One will remain the most watched in that small demograph. Monday Nights with The Apprentice has been successful and they match RTÉ One's figures, RTÉ Two as you can imagine has been slaughter and rightly so by both RTÉ One and TV3. (And even TG4 AFAIK).

I'd gladly pay the BBC one.

With the rest of the 20,000,000 households that pay €176. Don't compare them.

from the article about the Doyles:

He must go.

Blisterman

I don't see why RTE spends so much money importing shows that are already shown in Ireland on British channels.

Maybe they should consolidate RTE 1 and 2 into one channel, with purely original programming.

iguana

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't see why RTE spends so much money importing shows that are already shown in Ireland on British channels.

Even worse is the weird, weird habit they have of importing shows and airing them at stupid o'clock. They put popular prime time shows on at 10am/1pm/2am rather than the 7pm-11pm that they are designed to be aired at.

Hank_Jones

iguana wrote: »

Even worse is the weird, weird habit they have of importing shows and airing them at stupid o'clock. They put popular prime time shows on at 10am/1pm/2am rather than the 7pm-11pm that they are designed to be aired at.

I remember when Freaks and Geeks was on RTE, starting at like 2am every night, made me quite angry. Thank god for insomnia I suppose or I never would have discovered the show.

Eire-Dearg

iguana wrote: »

Even worse is the weird, weird habit they have of importing shows and airing them at stupid o'clock. They put popular prime time shows on at 10am/1pm/2am rather than the 7pm-11pm that they are designed to be aired at.

Rescue Me and Big Bang Theory just to name two.

jackthekipper

Reeling in the Years was great but that was just a matter of getting a good concept and the material was available. Also Bachelors Walk was great but I don't think the second series was as good as the first.
It seems that the people who get to decide what's trendy and modern Ireland get it so bad. Dose of sh1t Brunkers Dinner Party, Lucy Kennedys dating show and Wanderlust were all pretty embarassing.

Elmo

Hank_Jones wrote: »

I remember when Freaks and Geeks was on RTE, starting at like 2am every night, made me quite angry. Thank god for insomnia I suppose or I never would have discovered the show.

No, Freaks and Geeks aired on first on Friday Nights at 7pm/7:30pm on Network 2. They even air the final episodes before NBC did. They repeated them late nights a few years later.

But other than that all of RTÉ's top US shows have gone out at ridiculous times (bar The Big Bang Theory)

Bubs101

The Hardy Bucks is easily the funniest thing I've seen on any TV network home or abroad and I think in the end it shows that it comes down to great writing and the BBC can pay the best Irish writers far more than the RTE

Elmo

Bubs101 wrote: »

The Hardy Bucks is easily the funniest thing I've seen on any TV network home or abroad and I think in the end it shows that it comes down to great writing and the BBC can pay the best Irish writers far more than the RTE

But RTÉ should at least be able to develop writers. For Example IMO Val Falvey was only produced because it had a good name behind it, this is not a reason to commission a TV show. What writers do with their careers is no business of RTÉ or anyone else.