Starting Strength - Hack Squat v Normal Squat

G-Money

I began the Starting Strength programme yesterday and it went well enough. I don't think I lifted as heavy as I could have done but seeing it was my first day, I didn't want to overdo it.

Anyway I'm doing the programme at home with a barbell and two dumbbells. I don't have a rack to use with the barbell so I can tell this is going to affect my squat ability as I had to lift the bar over my head and lower it back down onto my shoulders etc. I can see this being very difficult the heavier the bar gets and that is one of the reasons I didn't lift heavier yesterday.

So I was thinking about doing the hack squat instead of the normal one. Do you think that would be sufficient? As in it would work the same muscles etc?

Cheers.

d'Oracle

grandmaster wrote: »

So I was thinking about doing the hack squat instead of the normal one. Do you think that would be sufficient? As in it would work the same muscles etc?

It doesn't work the same muscles.
And I don't think it would be sufficient, it looks closer to a RDL with the bar behind than a Squat.

Rip wrote:

(A guy asks if hack squat is useful since his college does not have any squat racks only squat machines)
I recommend that you change colleges.

Disclaimer: But what would I know.

kipple

A similar question was posted on the Crossfit forum here is the answer:

You have options. You just have to work harder.

Yes, you have to clean the weight up to your shoulders for press and stuff. So what? Dont you do cleans and snatches in your workouts? Just think of it as one extra rep of cleans.

On that note you should be doing a lot of full squat cleans since you dont have a rack. Great way to work a truely functional movement and get some strength work on your legs. Front squats are what you really need to focus on also.

Deadlifts of all kinds. You have no excuse on this one.

Why not use dumbbells? Dumbbell front squats are killer. So are DB deadlifts. Give them both a try.

Get out of the gym and run some sprints! One of the best leg exercises you can do. Sled dragging also if you have access.

Then you have tabata squats and as Jamie said smith squats are better than no squats. Just do the options i listed above also.

DB Squat
DB deadlift
Cleans
Front squat (clean the weight to shoulder)
Deadlfits
sprinting (flat,hills)
Tabata
Smith Squats

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

It doesn't work the same muscles.
And I don't think it would be sufficient, it looks closer to a RDL with the bar behind than a Squat.



Disclaimer: But what would I know.

I would guess the hack squat quoted in your post that Rippetoe refers to is not the same as the hack squat the OP is referring to. So way out of context really.

Hack squats won't be a perfect substitute obviously, but better than nothing (I say that because unless you're going high rep, the weight you can clean typically won't be enough of an overload for the legs).

G-Money

When you say front squats, are those with the barbell in front of your neck/top of your chest or behind your neck/across your shoulders?

The second one is more difficult I think if you don't have a rack as you have to lower the barbell down onto your neck and I think that will ultimately affect how much you can squat. In my mind I think I'd be able to squat more if the barbell is already at shoulder height, than if I have to lift the weight up and over my head and back down onto my shoulders.

Actually when I was thinking about a rack, it might have been the smith machine I was thinking of. It's where the barbell is almost on vertical rails. I used one of them before and found it somewhat useful.

My gym I think has both, but I was hoping to do all my weights at home with my barbell, dumbbells and bench.

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

I would guess the hack squat quoted in your post that Rippetoe refers to is not the same as the hack squat the OP is referring to. So way out of context really.

Good point.
The machine bit is the giveaway....

On a more helpful buzz: Grandmaster you could do Dumbbell Gobelet squats.
Its more like a front squat, it might do for a few weeks.

d'Oracle

grandmaster wrote: »

When you say front squats, are those with the barbell in front of your neck/top of your chest or behind your neck/across your shoulders?

The second one is more difficult I think if you don't have a squat rack
as you have to lower the barbell down onto your neck and I think that will ultimately affect how much you can squat. In my mind I think I'd be able to squat more if the barbell is already at shoulder height, than if I have to lift the weight up and over my head and back down onto my shoulders.

Actually when I was thinking about a rack, it might have been the smith machine I was thinking of. It's where the barbell is almost on vertical rails. I used one of them before and found it somewhat useful.

My gym I think has both, but I was hoping to do all my weights at home with my barbell, dumbbells and bench.

Front squat is with the bar infront. Across your shoulders and against your neck.
A smith machine has the rails.

If you are doing the bench press at home, and you dont have either a Power cage\rack or a spotter bare in mind that you can really hurt yourself when it gets heavy.

Maybe you should google the terms to get a look at pics of a rack and smith machine and maybe a video of the front squat.
Also, how much weight do you have at home?

rubadub

grandmaster wrote: »

I had to lift the bar over my head and lower it back down onto my shoulders etc.

You have to be careful with this. I can press 60kg up & over but it is no military press, I raise just one side and lean my head to one side and just clear it over. This is NOT a struggle, I would probably be able to press it properly but then I would be half knackered by the effort. You do not want to be all wobbly attempting this with a high weight. After doing the squats I sit on a bed and slowly lower the bar down onto the bed.

I do goblet squats as mentioned but you are limited to what your dumbell can hold, max on mine is 27kg. I cannot do proper front squats but do them holding the bar. I have also done squats with a dip belt-make sure its a strong one, I have the ironmind one rated to stupid amounts, I have done squats with 100kg on it. I have also done combinations, like 40kg on a bar pressed onto my back with 60kg on the dip belt. With the goblet squats I have had a 20kg plate in a backpack before. Just go for higher reps.

You can also do lunges or single leg variations of squats. I cannot do hack squats at all.

Kannon

sorry to go off-topic, but it doesn't warrant a new thread.
how effective are squats without weights? i mean say holding your arms straight out sideways and doing reps. i started doing these last week, about 30 reps at at a time and i can certainly feel it when i'm doing them which means it must be doing something. how long would it take to notice any difference?
i did the same for lunges.
am i wasting my time doing them without weights?
thanks.

imstrongerthanu

Lifting the bar up over your head is only going to last you
a few sessions;the weight will get heavy very quickly.
I would go tend to go with the front squat.Once you clean the bar up;
your ready to squat straight away.
You will find the weight very manageable for what you want to do.

imstrongerthanu

Kannon wrote: »

sorry to go off-topic, but it doesn't warrant a new thread.
how effective are squats without weights? i mean say holding your arms straight out sideways and doing reps. i started doing these last week, about 30 reps at at a time and i can certainly feel it when i'm doing them which means it must be doing something. how long would it take to notice any difference?
i did the same for lunges.
am i wasting my time doing them without weights?
thanks.

You'll get good at doing squats without weights.
What can that transfer over too?Thai-boxing.

G-Money

I only use the barbell for deadlifts, squats, military presses and power cleans. I use dumbbells for the bench press. I thought about using a barbell for it but reckoned I could easily decapitate myself.

I'll check out those gobelet squats. I might actually just do the main squat at the gym and do the rest at home.

I have about 40-50kg in plates at the moment. I might buy another set of 20 for the barbell to work on deadlifts, power cleans and military presses.

imstrongerthanu

grandmaster wrote: »

I only use the barbell for deadlifts, squats, military presses and power cleans. I use dumbbells for the bench press. I thought about using a barbell for it but reckoned I could easily decapitate myself.

I'll check out those gobelet squats. I might actually just do the main squat at the gym and do the rest at home.

I have about 40-50kg in plates at the moment. I might buy another set of 20 for the barbell to work on deadlifts, power cleans and military presses.

You'd want to buy about 150kg; you'll run out of weight very quickly.
Buy a few 0.5kg and 1.25kg plates too. You'll need them for when you get to the resetting stages.

G-Money

Cheers. I have a few 1.25kg and 2.5kg plates as well.

imstrongerthanu

grandmaster wrote: »

Cheers. I have a few 1.25kg and 2.5kg plates as well.

No bother.Oh ya don't bother with the goblet squats; you'll be bored of them after your first rep;go with front squats instead.

d'Oracle

grandmaster wrote: »

I only use the barbell for deadlifts, squats, military presses and power cleans. I use dumbbells for the bench press. I thought about using a barbell for it but reckoned I could easily decapitate myself.

I'll check out those gobelet squats. I might actually just do the main squat at the gym and do the rest at home.

I have about 40-50kg in plates at the moment. I might buy another set of 20 for the barbell to work on deadlifts, power cleans and military presses.

Dude that 40-50 will be change on your deadlift in no time.
It will do for Press, and maybe cleans.

I reckon splitting up the workout would be better than not doing back squats.
Do you have a solid floor with protection for when you squat?

d'Oracle

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

No bother.Oh ya don't bother with the goblet squats; you'll be bored of them after your first rep;go with front squats instead.

Why?

imstrongerthanu

d'Oracle wrote: »

Why?

I think they're boring?

d'Oracle

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I think they're boring?

Less so than the front squat, given that they are very similar?

Have you ever done them with a big dumbbell?

imstrongerthanu

d'Oracle wrote: »

Less so than the front squat, given that they are very similar?

Have you ever done them with a big dumbbell?

I get more satisfaction from the front squat.

Hanley

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I get more satisfaction from the front squat.

So it's not a question of boredom, but satisfaction from an exercise so?

d'Oracle

Good.

Thats an awesome reason to advise someone to do one considerably more difficult to accomodate exercise over another.

imstrongerthanu

Hanley wrote: »

So it's not a question of boredom, but satisfaction from an exercise so?

No,they are very boring.

d'Oracle

You must be easily bored.....

imstrongerthanu

Goblet squats versus front squats is that way --->
Bye now.

d'Oracle

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Bye now.

Did someone agree to delete you?;)

Khannie

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

The art of modding without modding is strong with this one :D