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Would we be better off under the Brits?

  • 30-11-2009 01:54PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭


    A lot of people seem annoyed with the country and the politicians the country repeatedly votes in and there seems to be an undercurrent in some articles in the papers that we would be better off in the union.

    Maybe the countryside would have less bungalow blitz and urban estates would be a bit better planned, but would we really be better off in the uk?

    Political correctness seems to be worse over there than here. Social freedoms are being removed quicker over there (with the exception of the smoking ban). Considering what the new labour party is doing to the pound, surely the stability of the Euro has it's advantages?

    It's not like Britain has an Empire anymore. If we were Jamican or Kenyan then you definately could argue we'd be better off as British, but are things so bad in the country?

    If it was a case Britain still had an empire and a pound coin was still a quarter ounce of gold, then I would be for reunification but as it stands with New labour and people getting hysterically offended at the smallest things, I don't think things would be that much better (if at all) by us becoming part of the UK again.

    Any benefits I'm missing?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Gary L


    We'd be better off under the Germans :)

    The reality is we could never accept the idea after all the fuss we threw up leaving. Surrendering our independence back over to the English? It wouldn't fly. I think that cultural reality would override any but overwhelming economic arguments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭rcunning03


    Gary L wrote: »
    We'd be better off under the Germans :)

    The reality is we could never accept the idea after all the fuss we threw up leaving. Surrendering our independence back over to the English? It wouldn't fly. I think that cultural reality would override any but overwhelming economic arguments.

    I agree with you, definately about the Germans. Tough times for this state, if they loose the support of the Gaurds and Army, who knows what could happen. I'm still holding out for some Norwegian nationalist that wants to reunite the viking world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Koloman


    rcunning03 wrote: »
    A lot of people seem annoyed with the country and the politicians the country repeatedly votes in and there seems to be an undercurrent in some articles in the papers that we would be better off in the union.

    Maybe the countryside would have less bungalow blitz and urban estates would be a bit better planned, but would we really be better off in the uk?

    Political correctness seems to be worse over there than here. Social freedoms are being removed quicker over there (with the exception of the smoking ban). Considering what the new labour party is doing to the pound, surely the stability of the Euro has it's advantages?

    It's not like Britain has an Empire anymore. If we were Jamican or Kenyan then you definately could argue we'd be better off as British, but are things so bad in the country?

    If it was a case Britain still had an empire and a pound coin was still a quarter ounce of gold, then I would be for reunification but as it stands with New labour and people getting hysterically offended at the smallest things, I don't think things would be that much better (if at all) by us becoming part of the UK again.

    Any benefits I'm missing?

    Well if you look at Northern Ireland then you would see that they have a better health care system to us. Everything seems cheaper and if there was a vote in the morning on a United Ireland then all of the Protestants and a substantial minority of the Catholics would vote against it. They know what side their bread is buttered and they are not going to jeopardise it on a unified Island.

    They get a massive subsidy from the British government which keeps them in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed.

    Should we have a vote in the south on whether we should have a 32 county Northern Ireland instead? I'm sure the Brits would love to have us back!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Bigdeadlydave


    No we wouldnt be better off under the Brits. They had 700 years to prove their way was best and they failed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭rcunning03


    Koloman wrote: »
    Well if you look at Northern Ireland then you would see that they have a better health care system to us. Everything seems cheaper and if there was a vote in the morning on a United Ireland then all of the Protestants and a substantial minority of the Catholics would vote against it. They know what side their bread is buttered and they are not going to jeopardise it on a unified Island.

    They get a massive subsidy from the British government which keeps them in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed.

    Should we have a vote in the south on whether we should have a 32 county Northern Ireland instead? I'm sure the Brits would love to have us back!

    It would be interesting to see what the result of that above mentioned vote would be. The UK defeict is only slightly smaller than ours, could be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire.

    I'm going to hold out for us being made a state in the Federal republic of Germany or some kind of Scandinavian ultra nationalist who wants to reclaim Ireland as part of a united Viking world.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    rcunning03 wrote: »
    I'm going to hold out for us being made a state in the Federal republic of Germany or some kind of Scandinavian ultra nationalist who wants to reclaim Ireland as part of a united Viking world.
    Do you speak German, or even Norse ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Koloman


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Do you speak German, or even Norse ?
    I think the answer to that question would be NEIN!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    100+ years of mismanagement under the act of union would suggest no op. Plus the UK has its own economic problems in case you hadn't noticed, its hardly a beacon of capitalist virtue right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭rcunning03


    Koloman wrote: »
    I think the answer to that question would be NEIN!

    Your right I don't and I'd probably be among the first they would get rid of, still better than slowly starving to death because a new and excessive carbon tax restricts the supply of food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    100+ years of mismanagement under the act of union would suggest no op. Plus the UK has its own economic problems in case you hadn't noticed, its hardly a beacon of capitalist virtue right now.

    Yes this is important to remember. Have you ever wondered why the English alone have a population of close to 50 million and Ireland roughly 10 times less? If you have then you'll realise we're better off governing our selfs even though we have so much to learn.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Yes this is important to remember. Have you ever wondered why the English alone have a population of close to 50 million and Ireland roughly 10 times less? If you have then you'll realise we're better off governing our selfs even though we have so much to learn.
    Here we go again, they started the famine (nothing to do with a fungus)
    then gave us Indian Corn knowing full well we didn't know how to cook it. Some say they even hid all the fishing nets :rolleyes:

    No, we would not be better off under the Brits; the English showed an unwillingness to share power fairly with the 3 other parties to the union.
    But we need to stop blaming everyone else for our problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    recedite wrote: »
    Here we go again, they started the famine (nothing to do with a fungus)
    then gave us Indian Corn knowing full well we didn't know how to cook it. Some say they even hid all the fishing nets :rolleyes:

    Who mentioned the famine?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    Given the fuss we made to break with the UK - re-unification of the island as part of the UK again wouldn't fly. That said when I see how the 26 counties are run I wonder why the hell we bothered agitating for independence in the first place.

    Riv


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Replacing one set of self serving politicians with another set of self serving politicians won't solve much..

    The Irish populace need to stand up and be counted and stop blaming everyone else for the problems. The Irish populace voted in FF and let them run the country in this manner. Noone else had the ability to put and keep them there..

    The Irish populace need to hold their politicians to account, and if they don't do the job then they don't get voted back in. While people blindly vote for the same old local candidate irrespective of their value then we will continue to feel the pain of their mismanagement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Gary L


    I couldn't agree more. The level of voter apathy in this country honestly disgusts me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭Misty Chaos


    To be quite honest, I personally feel more at home in England than in Ireland and if something like a re-unification with the UK came up, I'd be one person that would be supporting it.

    I know though that such an idea just wouldn't fly well in a lot of places, including where I live, which has a lot of IRA and Republicanism ingrained into its local culture.

    Then again, I have to remind myself that Britain has had hundreds of years in which it built its infrastructure to the way it is today whatever's Ireland has barely had even 100 years to properly even begin building its infrastructure, which probably explains why people moan about Irish infrastructure being so crap!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Britain has had hundreds of years in which it built its infrastructure to the way it is today whatever's Ireland has barely had even 100 years to properly even begin building its infrastructure, which probably explains why people moan about Irish infrastructure being so crap!
    We were on a par 100 years ago; we had more miles of railway than we do today, covering more towns, and the tram system in Dublin was more extensive than the Luas is today. As for motorways; we have had the same amount of time in which to develop them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭santry_goonshow


    Why don't we just submit to the Icelanders? Seriously. They had a parliament there over 900 years ago and are one of the oldest democracies in the world. We have a genetic link to them [something like 30% of them exhibit dominant "Hebridean & Hibernian" genes. They know how to tell their politicians to buzz off, and peacefully. They dont spend hours backbiting and whingeing about the weather, they get on with it. And anyone who comes into their country wanting to live there to improve their lot is welcomed because they will improve things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭fuelinjection


    No we would be treated like Scotland in the union - ignored, suspected, taxed and looked down on. Plus there would probably be decades of ecomonic revenge on us as we dealt a shock to their empire as we were the first (and closest) to leave the union. It set a precedent for other countries such as India (who Ireland was the first county to recognise Internationally).
    Also all their absentee landowning peers in the House of Lords would come back and reclaim large chucks of land which "were stolen from them".

    Some poeple would perhaps support this (I know british royals would), but if you feel that strongly about it set up a political party and run for election. It is a Republic after all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    The more involvement and contact I have had with Councillors and TDs, the more there is a part of me that would agree !
    However, if Ireland were still a part of UK, then large parts of the country would be little better than locations for UK holiday homes and the industrialisation we have seen the fifties onwards may not have occurred at all. The industrial core of the country would still be mainly focused on Belfast and its hinterland and the promotional activities which competed so successfully for decades against countries like UK would probably not have happened.
    We certainly would not have the favourable Corporate tax rate that, in the past, was so helpful in attracting FDI and 'internal emigration' to ' the 'Mainland' would have stifled much of the enterprising zeal that did emerge in the 26 counties.
    We would also of course have to keeping kissing the nether regions of the dreadful and dysfunctional Windsor family or, to give them their more correct name, the Saxe - Coburgs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Koloman


    anymore wrote: »
    The more involvement and contact I have had with Councillors and TDs, the more there is a part of me that would agree !

    Because of the small size of the country where everyone knows everyone else means that a lot of corruption can go on unchecked as many people would not like to be a whistle-blower on someone they know. This situation would be less likely if we where part of the UK on a purely size basis. The system of governance would be far more anonymous.

    Being part of the UK would mean far less corruption I would say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭UltimateMale


    Koloman wrote: »
    Because of the small size of the country where everyone knows everyone else means that a lot of corruption can go on unchecked as many people would not like to be a whistle-blower on someone they know. This situation would be less likely if we where part of the UK on a purely size basis. The system of governance would be far more anonymous.

    Being part of the UK would mean far less corruption I would say.

    Are some you crowd just playing Devil's advocate - or are you just out of your minds :D

    Corruption - never heard of the MP's expences scandal ? Or the current investigation into the war in Iraq under the sexed up reports ?

    Cronyism - so who invented the old school tie/old regiment system of wealthy jobs for the boys ? A country that entitles parasites to billions of pounds a year i..e Duke of Westminister, just because their Norman ancestors grabbed the land from the ordinary English people hundreds of years ago ?

    Join with Britain, your pulling me leg :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭RepublicanEagle


    Would we be better off?Does the war in Afghanistan/Iraq,lack of border control,uncontrollable illegal immigration,the surge in the popularity of extreme political groups,hooliganism,knife crime,the growth of Islamic fundamentalism,a zeal for political correctness and also a rise in unemployment within the UK answer your question?

    It does so for me...............that would be a NO by the way.However it is not that much worse there than here tbh.Does have its small advantages,the NHS for example and free dental care.In light of the lack of accountablility within the political spectrum in Ireland,if you are caught in the UK with "your hand in the cookie jar",there will be more dire consequences for that bureaucrat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Are some you crowd just playing Devil's advocate - or are you just out of your minds :D

    Corruption - never heard of the MP's expences scandal ? Or the current investigation into the war in Iraq under the sexed up reports ?

    Cronyism - so who invented the old school tie/old regiment system of wealthy jobs for the boys ? A country that entitles parasites to billions of pounds a year i..e Duke of Westminister, just because their Norman ancestors grabbed the land from the ordinary English people hundreds of years ago ?

    Join with Britain, your pulling me leg :D

    The manner in which the MP's expense scandal and the way in which a senior police commander was jailed for four years shows that for all its faults, the UK system is infinitely better than the Irish one. What has come of the McBrearty scandal apart from the taxpyer having to pay out compensation ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Koloman wrote: »
    Because of the small size of the country where everyone knows everyone else means that a lot of corruption can go on unchecked as many people would not like to be a whistle-blower on someone they know. This situation would be less likely if we where part of the UK on a purely size basis. The system of governance would be far more anonymous.

    Being part of the UK would mean far less corruption I would say.

    I think a large part of it is that neither TDs not Councillors are willing to publicly criticise the Local authorities or City/County managers or else they simply do not care about a whole range of issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭UltimateMale


    anymore wrote: »
    The manner in which the MP's expense scandal and the way in which a senior police commander was jailed for four years shows that for all its faults, the UK system is infinitely better than the Irish one. What has come of the McBrearty scandal apart from the taxpyer having to pay out compensation ?
    The MP's expense scandal resulted in a few resignations, deselections and apologies - a bit like our own excuse for a government. No point in getting carried away that, say, Bertie Ahern resigned and Liam Lawlor was sent to prison etc

    No one more than me would believe that the coppers responcible for the persecution of the McBrearty's should be behind bars. But lets not get too carried away with one British copper getting jailed for lieing, when vastly greater amount of British coppers were let away for much greater offences like the murder of Catholics, colluding with loyalists, Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 etc, etc.

    There's a hell of a lot wrong with our own system, but the last place in the world to be putting on a pedestal for political and judicial justice is Britain. That should be obvious to anyone :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    The MP's expense scandal resulted in a few resignations, deselections and apologies - a bit like our own excuse for a government. No point in getting carried away that, say, Bertie Ahern resigned and Liam Lawlor was sent to prison etc

    No one more than me would believe that the coppers responcible for the persecution of the McBrearty's should be behind bars. But lets not get too carried away with one British copper getting jailed for lieing, when vastly greater amount of British coppers were let away for much greater offences like the murder of Catholics, colluding with loyalists, Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 etc, etc.

    There's a hell of a lot wrong with our own system, but the last place in the world to be putting on a pedestal for political and judicial justice is Britain. That should be obvious to anyone :rolleyes:


    You are ignoring the fact that four sitting MPs are being charged with fraud in relation to thier expenses claims and this is happening after a realtively short investigation period. Justice, at least for some of these MOs is seing to be done. Where is the equivalent in Irleland ?
    I dont have to put the UK on a pedestal to point out thier sytem and the people who work in it are more honourble than Irish politicians and as one who always regarded myself as anti - imperialist, it gives me no pleasure to sat that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭La Madame


    Somebody before me mentioned that we would be better off with Germany instead of Britain. The UK seems to be a bit of a 'Goner' in todays world.
    As a German 17th State (Maritime) there could be a lot of advantages .

    1) Improvement of Infra-structure
    2) Improvement of Health Services
    3) Decentralised Local financing
    4) Putting local Irish Chiftains eg. HealyRays etc. out of power (maybe with special force units)
    5) Ban the Irish Catholic Church of ALL Powers within the State.

    OK this sounds tough - but in this State the Irish Republic is in - only tough measures can help.....keep one of your Clowns ...I think they call him Willi of Dea in mind

    Beer Drinkers support Farmers!

    Abolish infamous Minimum Unit Pricing!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 spids


    id say we wud be better off under the brits feicin euro screwed us up. we wudnt have so many non irish milkin the feicin system


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭sparkling sea


    We have done badly in recent years there is no getting away from the fact.

    Why Britain though.

    I totally agree that the infrastructure in Britain is far superior to our own but they do have amuch larger population and obviously they have better planners then we do.

    I also agree the although the British have problems with corrupt politicans, the way in which they deal with corruption, the public tolerance of it and penalties for such corruption are much harsher then in Ireland.

    I dont think we should rejoin Britain but we could learn alot from them. I wouldn't like to live within a state were the media and legislatures push such a fear culture though.


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