Talking to children like they're retarded

imstrongerthanu

Does anyone feel that if you talk to children like their handicapped that it will stunt their progress?
Have you ever thought why women and men talk to their children like this?They don't actually talk to the child at all.They play a role. What are your thoughts on this?
I personally think myself it's used to keep people in line with government institutions like school and their whole development as a human being.

Nonsense? Maybe.What do you think of my opinion on this?
And what's your own opinion on this matter?

robtri

you don't have kids do you??

6th

robtri wrote: »

you don't have kids do you??

Thats not discussing the topic now is it?

6th

I've got a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. When a child (baby/toddler) cant understand the words all they can pick up on is tone and gesture. I know I talked to my kids when they were babies like they where babies ... cos thats what they were.

My kids arent idiots so I dont talk to them like they are. My eldest started school this year and I have to say from what I've seen I'm really impressed with the teachers at the school. They are friendly but not to the point of patronising and really know how to get information across.

Penn

I don't have kids, but have a young nephew. We've never spoken to him like he's retarded, but you have to gradually build up how you talk to them. Its like teaching anybody anything, you have to start with the basics and build it up. But if my nephew does something wrong, we tell him what he did was wrong, why it was wrong etc.

As far as school goes, he's not there yet. But I know the girls who work in the creche he goes to, and have seen how they interact with him. Same as 6th said really, they're playful with him and stuff, but not to the point of speaking to him like he's retarded. Its just gradually teaching them how to speak and understand things properly

topper75

Just read a book called Don't Sleep There are Snakes.

Author lived with an Amazonian tribe for decades and learned their language. To say they are different from us would be a gross understatement. One of the hundreds of interesting differences was that they talked to the kids as adults from the off. In the difficult jungle environment, there was an expectation for them to grow up quickly and help out with the tribe's daily work - fishing/hunting/cooking etc. They just didn't have any 'baby language' in their culture.

studiorat

There's a theory that goes, back before language had properly evolved communication was totally on an emotional level. Purely by sounds could an emotion be conveyed. So cooing at toddlers is left over from this time. There's communication but only on an emotional level.

As we developed so too did our need for specific communication. So we have language which is "scientific" communication, designed to communicate specific details. Today, if we consider crying, it's still a communication of emotion although there's no actual words. We can't describe how to light a fire by grunts alone, yet we can express satisfaction or dis-satisfaction without actually using words.

The theory goes on to suggest as language deveolped in to communication of specific ideas, our emotional language also developed as what we know today as music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Storr

On a personal level, I think it's wrong to treat children like they are little adults, because obviously they aren't...

6th

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I personally think myself it's used to keep people in line with government institutions like school and their whole development as a human being.

Just to clarify the CT here is that the government are controling the manner in which teachers etc deal with children to condition them for being talked down to etc in adult life?

studiorat

6th wrote: »

Just to clarify the CT here is that the government are controling the manner in which teachers etc deal with children to condition them for being talked down to etc in adult life?

When we say Government, do we mean the present one or the previous governments since the inception of the state and the education system. Or is this talking down to children just a new thing?
If so then surely it's the catholic church that are behind this conspiracy and not the government at all?

There seems to be so be a constant reference to "the Government" on this forum. Why does no one ever actually state what government they are talking about? People may as well just be saying "The Man", I'd be pretty surprised if half the posters here actually knew who the government was...

6th

Well seeing as you're quote me I should point out that I was posing a question to the OP to clarify if what I said was what he meant. I dont see a problem or a CT here. Speaking as a parent.

robtri

6th wrote: »

Thats not discussing the topic now is it?

it is establishing a basis for his comments...

like you I have kids, three to be percise, ranging in ages from 1 to 5.....
it would be impossible to speak to them as an adult as they would not be able to comprehend a lot of the language or concepts involved.......

I asked the question to see what experience the Op has in dealing with kids..

Black Uhlan

studiorat wrote: »

I'd be pretty surprised if half the posters here actually knew who the government was...

Why?

indough

so are the parents in on the conspiracy? i only ask because they are predoninantly the ones reposnible fir the 'retarded' talking

teachers in school tend not to treat the children like retards unless they continuously act like them

children are supposed to be children anyway

studiorat

Black Uhlan wrote: »

Why?

Well, on this forum in particular. "The Government" seems to be a cover all name for some mysterious group who run all sorts of conspiracies. Yet the government changes quite frequently. Not to mention the fact that there exists an opposition party who's job it would seem if to oppose the government, who surely would lift the lid on some of the "conspiracies".

Yet everyday someone uses the term "The Government" yet can't seem to actually mention any names or any specifics whatsoever. To me that makes it look like there's quite a few people who don't even know how the government works... That's why.

In terms of the general discussion, maybe it would be an idea to actually state what part of or who in the government is behind this. And maybe speculate why for instance the opposition party aren't informed of this.

imstrongerthanu

6th says he has to children and he talks to them like children because they can't understand the meaning of the words and so instead pick up on various gestures and tones.

paddyirishman85 says he has a nephew and you have to gradually build up how you talk to him.

topper75 mentions he read a book were they talked to the kids as adults from the off.
In the difficult jungle environment, there was an expectation for them to grow up quickly.

studiorat you touched on something I'm going to talk about.

robtri says he has kids, three to be percise, ranging in ages from 1 to 5.....
it would be impossible to speak to them as an adult as they would not be able to comprehend a lot of the language or concepts involved.......

I disagree and after what topper has said I'm sure your a little curious?

So to summarise; I talk to my children as they need to pick up my language slowly and as they cannot understand me otherwise.This has been passed down from generation to generation without question.


First language acquisition

Imagine that you are faced with the following challenge. You must discover the internal structure of a system that contains tens of thousands of units, all generated from a small set of materials. These units, in turn, can be assembled into an infinite number of combinations. Although only a subset of those combinations is correct, the subset itself is for all practical purposes infinite. Somehow you must converge on the structure of this system to use it to communicate. And you are a very young child.
This system is human language.

Interesting enough isn't it?
I was reading a lot about how children learn/acquire their first language.And it seems they don't need parents to talk to them as idiots.
They may look cute and cuddly; but them little fukers can out do a supercomputers ability to parse words.

So why do it?

Some links you might enjoy.

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/23/12874.full
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Papers/Py104/pinker.langacq.html

Penn

But surely its not just the language, it's the meaning and intent behind it? You can say to a child "That cooker is hot". The child might understand "Yes... this cooker is hot", and touch it anyway, not realising that by touching the hot surface, their hand gets hurt. It's not just teaching language and words, its associating these words with the meaning behind them

Owen

Worst conspiracy theory ever. The reason you talk to children like they're retarded, is because intelluctually, they are compared to an adult. Children at the beginning understand words like rattle, juice, dada, mamma, granny, etc. It takes time for their minds to associate the sound of the word juice, with the reward of the drink itself, and once they do, they can they start processing another word in their ever expanding vocabulary.

I wouldn't expect a child to understand adult words. I wouldn't expect a child to understand the symatics of this sentence I'm speaking right now. They'll only acquire those skils as they get older. That's why when I was in primary school, we had John Thompsons spelling book, which focused on small words when you were young, and then expanded them to 7/8/9 letter words as you got older, and your mind was better able to add them to the existing vocab, and compare their meaning to other words.

robtri

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

6th says he has to children and he talks to them like children because they can't understand the meaning of the words and so instead pick up on various gestures and tones.

paddyirishman85 says he has a nephew and you have to gradually build up how you talk to him.

topper75 mentions he read a book were they talked to the kids as adults from the off.
In the difficult jungle environment, there was an expectation for them to grow up quickly.

studiorat you touched on something I'm going to talk about.

robtri says he has kids, three to be percise, ranging in ages from 1 to 5.....
it would be impossible to speak to them as an adult as they would not be able to comprehend a lot of the language or concepts involved.......

I disagree and after what topper has said I'm sure your a little curious?

So to summarise; I talk to my children as they need to pick up my language slowly and as they cannot understand me otherwise.This has been passed down from generation to generation without question.


First language acquisition

Imagine that you are faced with the following challenge. You must discover the internal structure of a system that contains tens of thousands of units, all generated from a small set of materials. These units, in turn, can be assembled into an infinite number of combinations. Although only a subset of those combinations is correct, the subset itself is for all practical purposes infinite. Somehow you must converge on the structure of this system to use it to communicate. And you are a very young child.
This system is human language.

Interesting enough isn't it?
I was reading a lot about how children learn/acquire their first language.And it seems they don't need parents to talk to them as idiots.
They may look cute and cuddly; but them little fukers can out do a supercomputers ability to parse words.

So why do it?

Some links you might enjoy.

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/23/12874.full
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Papers/Py104/pinker.langacq.html

you still never answered the question.... do you have kids....

also have you ever tried expalining to a 1 year old the complexities of inter human relationships.... see how that goes....

Kids minds are super computers, but they cannot comprehend an adult language....... seriously cannot, I have tried reasoning like an adult with a 5 year old.... it don't work... they do not understand a lot of "adult" words as they have not assimulated this part of the language yet.....

Also I can categoraicaly state I am not inviolved with any government conspiracy....

Undergod

indough wrote: »

so are the parents in on the conspiracy? i only ask because they are predoninantly the ones reposnible fir the 'retarded' talking

Assuming there is a conspiracy (there isn't), then parents wouldn't have to be in on it, as they are indoctrinated into this behaviour- talking to kids like they're stupid- and don't need to be aware.

RoboClam

When I have a kid, I'll be sure to sit him/her down and have a lively discussion on the intricacies of quantum mechanics versus classical physics!

Seriously though, as has already been said, you have to build upon language with children. You cannot just start talking to them as if they are intellectually equal to you.