Standing up for Teachers.

foxymm

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

kangaroo

foxymm wrote: »

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

By the same logic, it would appear no one should complain about politicians' pay and their allowances, consultants' pay, etc.

thebman

lol spending all day looking at a computer screen. I do look at the screen but then its my job to look at it as I work on a computer all day.

If she thinks thats cushy she can do that same as she recommended to other people complaining about teachers. I only wish teachers would have spent an hour looking at a computer screen to teach kids about it but most don't seem to be able to turn it on even with first class honors degrees.

Says a lot about our education system :pac:

But to answer the question, why should they accept cuts. Simple, their employer can't afford to pay them. Technically they shouldn't have a job at all if normal rules applied as the government is 20 billion in debt (yeah yeah the goverment isn't a company, it still has to balance its books FFS, you can't borrow forever haven't you found that out yet?).

jetfiremuck

Teachers salary is reflected in the 9months or so of employment. That said the teaching profession attracts a certain type of individual that places more importance on the time off, school hours etc. as the reason for joining it. Same goes for those that get excellent leaving cert results and get the places with the highest points required... and not realizing that the degree they are after may not be what they really wanted but the course requirement created the demand . Just watch the demand for places in civil engineering and the like in the coming years

kangaroo

foxymm wrote: »

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

Congratulations on your First Class honours in your H.Dip. Have you any idea what percentage got 1st class honours in your year? And also other grades?

As I recall, some masters are 1st, 11.1 and pass - what grades are possible with a H.Dip?

Dannyboy83

Oh God, please no, not another one of these threads.

We had one here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055738964

Its actually the most viewed thread in the forum, with about 20,000 hits despite only being a few weeks old.
If Boards.ie had charged people a few bob for viewing it, they could plugged one of the many holes in the economy

I recommend this one too:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520

K4t

jetfiremuck wrote: »

the teaching profession attracts a certain type of individual that places more importance on the time off, school hours etc. as the reason for joining it.

Yet more generalisation that we have become so accusotmed to in this dog's dinner of a forum.:rolleyes: Some teachers fit the criteria you stated but most teachers are there becuase they love the job. They have an interest in a subject and a desire to teach that subject. You can't label every teacher as only being in it for the holidays. Although, you could say without doubt that in many sectors, workers are only in it for the money and the excessive bonuses, but I won't go into that as it's unpopular in these parts.....

thebman wrote: »

I only wish teachers would have spent an hour looking at a computer screen to teach kids about it but most don't seem to be able to turn it on even with first class honors degrees.

Says a lot about our education system :pac:
.

Did I mention generalisation already? Or are you showing off your wit?:rolleyes:

The public sector bashing posts in this forum are quite pathetic really. the question should really be how the f**k did you get on the internet, to be honest.

Darragh29

foxymm wrote: »

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

Do you think you are the only people on the planet who have a 4 year degree and a post grad qualification??? There is no shortage of people down at Hatch 45 with B. Sc's, B. Eng's, H. Dips, M. Sc's and all sorts of hard earned qualifactions, maybe you should swap places with them for a week or two to see how overpaid and underworked you actually are.

Of all the public sector workers who I think should have a saddle put on them come budget day, teachers are at the top of the list. Your opening post says it all, it reaks of entitlement on the basis of nothing other than having the qualification. That's the way teachers view their working life, once you get the permanent post on the basis of having the precious qualification, then you are:

(1) Untouchable in terms of tenure.

(2) Unaccountable for any results whatsoever.

I personally hope that the government give all you guys a 20% pay increase come this budget, then we can look forward to the IMF coming in nest Easter and dealing with you properly for once and for all.

creeper1

I think I feel sorry most for the graduate teachers that are about to enter the job market. THese guys really are going to struggle to get a job and it's not at all their fault.

No way will there be enough money in the pot for new teachers to get a start. I see existing teachers keeping their salaries maybe with a compromise of an increase in class sizes. If I was a graduate teacher I'd be really pissed with these existing teachers.

I once heard a teacher say teachers shouldn't strike because they are like a doctor and have a duty of care. I think this guy had big time dellusions of grandeur. I myself regard teachers as little more than glorified babysitters.

As far as importance goes let me bring the OP down to earth (I'm just in awe at his 4 year degree:rolleyes:) with a very popular saying.

Those that can - DO. Those that can't - TEACH.

frman

foxymm wrote: »

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions?

Because the Government don't have the money to pay you ?

It is quite simple really.

Surely as a teacher you have come up against difficult mathematical problems such as this.......

Little Johnny usually gets 3 apples for his lunch. Today, his mother only has 2 apples. How many apples do you think little Johnny is going to get today ?

Johnny will kick and scream. however, the simple fact remains that he will not be getting 3 apples.

Slugs

Of all the public sector workers who I think should have a saddle put on them come budget day, teachers are at the top of the list. Your opening post says it all, it reaks of entitlement on the basis of nothing other than having the qualification. That's the way teachers view their working life, once you get the permanent post on the basis of having the precious qualification, then you are:

(1) Untouchable in terms of tenure.

(2) Unaccountable for any results whatsoever.

I personally hope that the government give all you guys a 20% pay increase come this budget, then we can look forward to the IMF coming in nest Easter and dealing with you properly for once and for all.

Well realistically, they're accountable. If their students fail their LC and JC, are they accountable? If a student is abused or attacked and they fail to act, are they accountable? Although I agree with your opinion of the OP, I still think people are being a little too hard on teachers. Despite what you like to harp on about, if your going into teaching for the 3 months holidays, for those other 9 months, you're seriously in trouble. Teaching really is a vocation, it takes a lot of commitment, and involves handing over a decent amount of your spare time. After all, when would they correct homework? When would they organise tests, study notes and field trips. During 9-4 is it? AS well as that, many teachers are also striking against the education cutbacks, and rightly so. Very little consideration was taken when making these cutbacks. Two things should NEVER be touched unless absolutely necessary. Health and Education, and if they government continue to hit these two sectors, if we ever get out of this recession (which I doubt) We're going to have a severly lacking working sector.

And in relation to your comment on the IMF coming in, I don't think you fully understand the consequences of their takeover. IF they come in, say goodbye to what you know of Ireland today. I suggest you look into the IMF in a little more detail.

efb

If Teachers accepted to one less month's leave and accounability in their work I'd say leave them be...

But until then...Ride Sally (Brian) Ride...

PS: asked my boss for my honours degree suppliment...we both laughed!

Those that can do, those that can't 'claim' to teach!

frman

efb wrote: »

If Teachers accepted to one less month's leave and accounability in their work I'd say leave them be...

Once again, we need to grasp what the real problem is here.

We don't have the money.

If we got teachers to accept one months less leave and make them more accountable, how does that solve our country's money problems ?

efb

Do you think they'd accept that?
It was a rhetorical statement

Slugs

It wouldn't, but it'd make those who feel that teachers are overpaid and underworked feel better.

Slugs

efb wrote: »

Do you think they'd accept that?
It was a rhetorical statement

would you accept keeping your child in school for another month?

so for primary that'd be up til august, and secondary, til july.

efb

Yep, (if I had children) save on crèche fees!

efb

And August 1 would be return to school day (unless it was a Monday)

Slugs

Glad I didn't have you for a parent so.

efb

Glad I don't have you as a child (but that impudence would be beaten outof you)

Slugs

lol, we'd see :P

efb

Well as a person who goes to work at 6 and home at 8 I don't reckon children are a sensible choice atm

Slugs

I won't be having kids full stop. I've made that decision, despite all this "bah you're young, you'll soon change" bs that people love to try and shove down my throat. Screw em. any maybe we should get back on topic

efb

I think Children ( and sensible choice making) are integral parts of this topic...

Slugs

How so, I mean what we're refering to here is the effect the budget and cutback will have on the teachers (and more importantly, the education system).I don't see how a discussion on having children and what it means to have them would be an integral part of this discussion

efb

Children are key to the discussion there are the reasôn d'être for the Education System, not teachers,
and you brought having them into the discussion.
Also choice making is key as we have very limited choices now as a nation, and we the nation as a parent, has to tell the spoilt child that is the PS, mammy and daddy can't spoil them like they used to, Santa (Brian Lenihan) doesn't
have as much this year are there are all the children to consider...

Slugs

The real thing though is, are the government making the right choices? no. Obviously not, and the sooner this government is taken out, the better we'll all be.

efb

They are trying, but are being stonewalled by PS unions. The bad choices, like blanket benchmarking were made before now. Will FG and Lab make these hard choices, or do you think Lab's cosy relationship with the PS Unions protect you (them)?

If the Gov reduce the PS wage bill in Budget 10, I'd say they are now making the right choices.

Slugs

And while the PS are being hit, where're the banks being hit? Just the other week, we had a person whinging because he was being paid over 500k? that 500k could easily be used to pay for an extra 10 doctors for example (guesstimate). Quite obviously, the people who could take the load aren't obviously being handed enough bags to carry. anyway I'm off, see ya in a few hours and we'll resume where we left off

efb

Do you know the T&Cs of the Gov recapitalization scheme or NAMA, I'd give them a read, it's not a free ride like Bertie's free ride benchmarking...

Also for a person that likes things on topic, you bring it off on a lot of tagents... Maths Teacher? Or Drawing maybe...

efb

50K wouldn't pay for a nurse let alone a Doctor...

Ste.phen

Saw this quote on thepropertypin, not sure who it was by:

Public sector workers saying they shouldn't have pay cuts or tax increases because they 'didn't cause the recession' is like the first class passengers on the titanic saying they shouldn't have to man the lifeboats because they 'didn't hit the iceberg'

oldyouth

foxymm wrote: »

Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

If I stared at my computer screen all day doing nothing, it would show up on my monthly figures and I'd be fired a.s.a.p. No union, no second chance, no transfer to another Dept, no chance of re-employment and pension flucked.

Don't give me that bull about going home to prepare for class next day. In our business you often have to arrange appointments to meet clients 100 miles away at 9 am and a last appointment at 5pm. That time travelling is not paid for. If your figures are down, you stay back to rectify it.

If you divide your annual salary by the number of weeks worked, teachers come out very cushy indeed. As for the 'pressure' of working with 25 kids for hours, I dare you to look at the faces of my colleagues this Monday morning, wondering if we will all still be here in the new year, that's pressure.

I don't begrudge your choices and the position you have secured, but keep it to yourself please

Stark

frman wrote: »

Because the Government don't have the money to pay you ?

It is quite simple really.

Surely as a teacher you have come up against difficult mathematical problems such as this.......

Little Johnny usually gets 3 apples for his lunch. Today, his mother only has 2 apples. How many apples do you think little Johnny is going to get today ?

Johnny will kick and scream. however, the simple fact remains that he will not be getting 3 apples.

Actually Johnny will request an apple tax on the fat cat shopkeepers down the road so that Johnny can still have his 3 apples. That is until the shopkeeper stops selling apples.

Stark

Slugs wrote: »

The real thing though is, are the government making the right choices? no. Obviously not, and the sooner this government is taken out, the better us union members will be

FYP.

Tipp Man

I am sick to death of hearing about poor teachers, they have the cushyiest well paid jobs in the country, and that is beyond dispute. I posted below in another thread but it certainly applies here

Here's the details for a secondary teacher

The minimum starting salary for a teacher is E37,468. The maximum starting salary for a teacher is E41,383. Now how many other graduates are starting on that kind of money, are there any??

A full teaching load of 22 hours per week, 33 weeks per year. They work less than half of what a normal 40 hour a week person is working, can you imagine all that time off

Teaching salaries rise by an average of E1.5K a year for the first ten years. That figure excludes inflation related pay rises. They rise by an average of E1K a year thereafter until the top point of the salary scale is reached at E63,361.


My brother, who is a fairly sharp guy, always says that if teachers worked as much as the rest of us they wouldn't need as much money as they wouldn't have the huge amount of time off in which to spend money. Think about how much more money you spend when you are not in work


Note: thanks to Bandroi in this thread for the figures which i have unashamedly robbed the numbers http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520

Leprachaun

Personally,I think teachers should just not get paid for the summer months when they're not working.

zootroid

foxymm wrote: »

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

And what "abuse" would this be? Debate in the media about where we can make cuts to the public sector wage bill? I hardly think that would be considered "abuse".

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

Because the country can no longer afford it. Simple as.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

Your point being? How many graduates do Irish universities churn out each year? That statement smacks of a sense of entitlement, "I'm entitled to a well paying job because I spent 4 years at university". The real world doesn't work like that, love.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

I'm not sure many people have a cushy private sector job. At the end of the day their wages are a cost, and if they are not providing a return to their employer they will be let go.

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

That is admirable for those teachers that do. But keep in mind many people in the private sector are now working longer hours in an effort to be more productive and keep their businesses afloat or stay in a job.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

Nobody is lecturing you about anything, merely pointing out that the state can no longer afford the public sector wage bill, and as such all options should be debated. That's all. As there is no market mechanism in the public sector, we have to debate what is providing value, and see if there are any ways of getting this at a lower cost. You do realise that the state is currently borrowing 500 million euro each week, don't you?

And in reference to your point about becoming a teacher, I am quite happy with my career choice (despite the fact that I am currently unemployed). Most "public sector bashers" do not object to your wages out of jealousy, but out of a fear of what will happen if the state's finances are not put back in order.

Rujib1

The entire debate about public service pay should be based solely and only on comparison with pay in the private sector and pay for public service equivalents in similar sized countries in the EU.
All the bleeding heart stuff about the commitment of our public servants to the greater good of the public blah, blah, blah needs to set aside.

Fact is our public service is over paid and over staffed and is largely inefficient compared to public services in similar EU countries. AND, of course our darling servants take an extraordinary level of sick days on top.

So, Mr Lenihan, should take out the carving knife and cut deep and hard in one fell swoop in this years budget. End of:P

The_Honeybadger

foxymm wrote: »

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

FFS does she think teachers are the only people with qualifications in the country? A B.A. and a H.Dip are very achieveable by most people and nothing to be overly proud of, in fact when I was in third level the Arts courses were often referred to as McDonalds Degrees (I didn't make it up but it's a reference to them being handy to achieve and no good for anything unless you want to teach). I know a few teachers who are ashamed of their unions at the moment and are against the strikes but are being bullied int participating. They rightly feel very lucky to have jobs and I respect them for that but this ladys sense of entitlement is sickening. The average income in other sectors in falling all the time, without even mentioning the dole queues, did they really expect that they would be untouched? I have no desire to be a teacher but if i was one I'd be very grateful for my lot at the moment and keep my head down. I know young secondary teachers are getting it in the neck with hours reduced etc, but anybody with a permanent position has no business protesting IMO.

Tipp Man

The title of this thread should be "standing up TO teachers" cause thats what need to be done

dearg lady

foxymm wrote: »

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

cringe. You MUST be kidding me. I swear, posts like this are what p*ss people off and turn them against the whole public sector, I urge people not to assume all public sector workers think this way. Never have I heard such an extraordinary sense of entitlement.

Let me say first I do believe teachers wages are too high, but I accept if they were cut too drastically, people genuinely wouln't be able to survive. Some cuts should be introduced, and then levels retained with no further increases for quite a number of years.

To address some of your points,
Why should cuts be introduced, because there is NO MONEY to sustain the wages!

Your time spent in university, fair paly to you, but it should not automaticlaly entitle you to ceratin levels of pay. I'm almost finished my masters level qualification and believe me I earn nothing close to a tecahers salary!

cushy private sector jobs, whaaaat?? There's so many different jobs in the private sector, to refer to all as 'cushy' is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. This sweeping statements nonsense does nothing for the debate.

Teaching is a vocation, if that were true, you'd probably be a lot less concerned about sustaining high pay levels.

Time spent outside of school, working say 9 to 4 assuming longer secondary school hours, with an hour for lunch is 6 hours per day, 30 hours per week, so there's still room for another 10 to bring you up to 40(what most people in their 'cushy' private sector jobs are contracted for)

Teaching is not soemthing I'd choose to do myself, and I don't doubt for a second that it's a difficult job, but so are many jobs. And as Tippman says, 37,468 is a fantastic starting salary, for any graduate!

ei.sdraob

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions?

because yee are paid more than teachers just about everywhere else, while not being in the top for education

benchmarking....

MaceFace

Teaching in Ireland is not a vocation anymore.
If it were, teachers would be very willing to sacrifice self gain in the furthering of their calling (teaching).

ei.sdraob

i said it before and i will say it again

if they think they have it so bad then why not emigrate to the UK or rest of EU
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yeah right i taught so


starting teacher salary in UK is 21K pounds thats 23K euro
thats more than 15K less than teachers starting here (See below)

Tipp Man wrote: »

The minimum starting salary for a teacher is E37,468. The maximum starting salary for a teacher is E41,383.

if that doesnt put things into perspective then these people are more delusional than i taught

are the teachers here really almost twice better or more productive than their UK counterparts?


btw @OP ive more degrees and qualifications than yourself (and not in some artsy fartsy degrees, im talking science and eng), does that entitle me to a larger salary??

Stark

dearg lady wrote: »

Time spent outside of school, working say 9 to 4 assuming longer secondary school hours, with an hour for lunch is 6 hours per day, 30 hours per week, so there's still room for another 10 to bring you up to 40(what most people in their 'cushy' private sector jobs are contracted for)

I have some sympathy for the teachers putting in the extra hard work. However, thanks to union politics, teachers aren't compensated based on performance. So the teacher who's doing the bare minimum still gets paid the high salary. You're paid for your 30 hours a week, everything else is voluntary work. Welcome to the soul crushing world of unionised employment.

MysticalRain

foxymm wrote: »

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.

Sure why not? Getting into teaching can't be that hard if any idiot with an arts degree and a H Dip can get in. Now why don't you swap places with somebody in the private sector. Let's see if you can design a 100 million euro bridge across the Shannon or how you cope staring at C++ code all day working on the next version of Microsoft Windows.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

Here's a newsflash for you: having a degree or postgraduate qualification doesn't give you a God-given right to a well-paid job. The queue at your local welfare office is full of people with more qualifications than you have. And just because somebody has a H Dip, it doesn't automatically mean they are a good teacher deserving of high-paying. Teaching is a vocation where there is a lot more to it than just merely having a bunch of letters after your name.

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

Maybe that's the case for the younger idealistic teachers fresh out of college eager to make a good impression. But that's not really commonplace. If it was, then we wouldn't have a situation where 25% of the Irish population are functionally illiterate and there are now only 85,000 fluent Irish speakers left in the country.

dearg lady

Stark wrote: »

I have some sympathy for the teachers putting in the extra hard work. However, thanks to union politics, teachers aren't compensated based on performance. So the teacher who's doing the bare minimum still gets paid the high salary. You're paid for your 30 hours a week, everything else is voluntary work. Welcome to the soul crushing world of unionised employment.

that's a good point, and it doesn't just apply to teachers, same everywhere in public sector, automatic increments aren't a great idea, peopel shoudl be rewarded on an individual basis

toiletduck

foxymm wrote: »

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions?

There's no money for current levels of pay/employment. Pretty simple really.

Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Great understanding of the private sector right there. Even if someone actually did this, what business would it be of yours? Unlike taxpayers with the teachers/PS, you're not a 'shareholder'.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

Spouting the same old stuff year in, year out for the next 40 years? No thanks.

Tbh your whole post reeks of entitlement. Fair play for getting a good degree and a H. Dip, but that doesn't mean you should automatically get x,y & z. If that were the case I'd be laughing all the way to the bank :pac:

The_Honeybadger

MysticalRain wrote: »

Sure why not? Getting into teaching can't be that hard if any idiot with an arts degree and a H Dip can get in. Now why don't you swap places with somebody in the private sector. Let's see if you can design a 100 million euro bridge across the Shannon or how you cope staring at C++ code all day working on the next version of Microsoft Windows.


Here's a newsflash for you: having a degree or postgraduate qualification doesn't give you a God-given right to a well-paid job. The queue at your local welfare office is full of people with more qualifications than you have. And just because somebody has a H Dip, it doesn't automatically mean they are a good teacher deserving of high-paying. Teaching is a vocation where there is a lot more to it than just merely having a bunch of letters after your name.


Maybe that's the case for the younger idealistic teachers fresh out of college eager to make a good impression. But that's not really commonplace. If it was, then we wouldn't have a situation where 25% of the Irish population are functionally illiterate and there are now only 85,000 fluent Irish speakers left in the country.

Harsh but true, that lady will take some beating I dont think most teachers think like her to be fair. Interesting point about the standard of English and Irish, I was raised in the Gaeltacht and happen to have good Irish. My fiancee's nephew is now in his fifth year in a Gaelscoil and at a recent family get together we spoke a few words in Irish. This is a smart and normally well spoken kid but he was unable to put a proper sentence together in the language he is supposed to be studying every day and his grammar was very poor. I was very surprised at this as I thought someone with five years exposure to the language would be fully fluent. I think the gaelscoil concept is a good one overall and I'm glad someone is trying to keep the language alive as many would happily let it die off, but surely someone after five years there should be able to engage in basic conversation with a native speaker. The English literacy problem is a very real one too and it should be an absolute priority for the Dept of Education to sort it out asap.

bamboozle

foxymm wrote: »

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

its not a question of the quality of work its a question of being able to afford to pay the wages. The country is borrowing 400 million a week, its nothing personal.

ps- i'm sure there are lots of unemployed solicitors, accountants, architects, barristers out there who would consider the qualifications they earned to be far far harder to obtain than a hdip that would gladly settle for a teachers salary now.