Was there ever slave trading or slaves in Ireland.

CDfm

I was reading thru some stuff recently and came accross something on the Slaves of the Zong. There was an insurance case where the ships owners claimed for loss of slaves who had become ill and were thrown overboard. The case was about commercial loss of cargo and occured in the 1780s and the ship traded out of Liverpool.

Now Dublin was a major port and there were a few busy Irish ports. So my question is was there slavery or slaves in Ireland and/or did slave ships operate from Irish Ports.

Victor

Invariably it was the Irish were the slaves, shipped to the Caribbean. I've not heard of people importing slaves to Ireland in the post 1500 era.

As to whether slave ships operated from or via Irish ports, I imagine they would have, given the need to obtain fresh food and water was a major constraint in the era.

milehip1

ahh St. Patrick?

Fratton Fred

CDfm wrote: »

I was reading thru some stuff recently and came accross something on the Slaves of the Zong. There was an insurance case where the ships owners claimed for loss of slaves who had become ill and were thrown overboard. The case was about commercial loss of cargo and occured in the 1780s and the ship traded out of Liverpool.

Now Dublin was a major port and there were a few busy Irish ports. So my question is was there slavery or slaves in Ireland and/or did slave ships operate from Irish Ports.

I believe a chap called Saint Wulfstan helped stop a lot of it. He helped curb the trade of Slaves to ireland from Bristol Docks, but this was back in the 12th century I think.

Victor wrote: »

Invariably it was the Irish were the slaves, shipped to the Caribbean. I've not heard of people importing slaves to Ireland in the post 1500 era.

As to whether slave ships operated from or via Irish ports, I imagine they would have, given the need to obtain fresh food and water was a major constraint in the era.

I read an article (I will try and dig it out) about the slave ships stopping in Ireland. the article was talking about how they stopped to pick up slaves, but the ships (Which originated in Rotterdam i think) were alredy full, so the conditions were already pretty bad before Irish slaves were picked up. If I can find it again i will post a link.

funkydunkey

There is a mass grave at Cockleshell Beach near crookhaven, co. cork for slaves that died on the way from the UK to the US. The town was used by a lot of merchant ships for supplies andslave ships were known to stop there. on the left hand side of the picture below you can just about see the upright stones that were used to mark the graves

Capt'n Midnight

The population of Baltimore was taken as slaves


Was told (so no link) that there was only one slave ship sailed in to Belfast, and it was made quite clear by a local religious leader as to his feelings about this. No slaves were sold and no more ships ever arrived. IIRC this also applied to the rest of the country too.


Overall lots more of us were enslaved than visa-versa

Though a lot of indentured Irish ended up managing slaves in the Carribeen

funkydunkey

thats right actually about baltimore. fair play. i remember that story too from when i was young. a very bloody one. as far as i recall it was an Algerian pirate ship sacked the town. thats why theres a pub there now called te algiers. or so the story goes.

Eoinp

Depending on how you define slaves, I think you could say that Irish people were held as slaves during periods of indentured servitude in the Caribbean.

I posted a podcast on this earlier in the month which features both the side that suggests there was slavery and that which says there was.
http://www.historyjournal.ie/podcasts.html

Also Newstalk carried a feature on slavery a while ago too, their itunes archive should have a copy of the podcast they did on it!

CDfm

funkydunkey wrote: »

thats right actually about baltimore. fair play. i remember that story too from when i was young. a very bloody one. as far as i recall it was an Algerian pirate ship sacked the town. thats why theres a pub there now called te algiers. or so the story goes.

I remember that and something about a guy from Co Waterford (Lismore I think) guiding them in.

Fratton Fred

Eoinp wrote: »

Depending on how you define slaves, I think you could say that Irish people were held as slaves during periods of indentured servitude in the Caribbean.

it wasn't an Irish thing though, despite how it is often portrayed. This isn't the article i was looking for, but it is very similar. There is no mention of Irish people in this account.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1601-1650/mittelberger/servan.htm

CDfm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it wasn't an Irish thing though, despite how it is often portrayed. This isn't the article i was looking for, but it is very similar. There is no mention of Irish people in this account.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1601-1650/mittelberger/servan.htm

interesting article

on a side issue - you had indenture terms on training in trades/apprenticeships and professions until quite recently

relatively recently i spoke to someone who trained as a teacher in ireland in the 1950s 0r 60s who would have to repay training fees if she had left under her training agreement

i saw an article to in law if indentures in the USA somewhere - which I will see if I can find

topper75

I don't think many from West Africa would have arrived up here. The trade triangle of the day was dictated by commodity location and prevailing winds. So it went something like boat down past the Canaries from Liverpool and pick up slaves in W.Africa. Sail with Slaves to New World on the Trade winds. Drop off slaves and take on cotton (picked there by slaves). Sail back to Liverpool on Westerlies and dump cotton into mills where it was made into clothes.

With Ireland, the colonial masters had a surplus of humans. They grazed beasts in fields and didn't need intensive picking labour. They would have rathered that people left Ireland (poor Irish duly obliged!). There was no call to import slaves. Even if there was, West Africans may not have fared so well in the Irish climate.

CDfm

I dont think indentured servitude was limited to the Irish

http://www.pricegen.com/resources/servants.htm

Benjamin Franklin was an Indentured Servant

Franklin was the sole Founding Father who was once owned by someone else and was among the few to derive his fortune from slavery. As an indentured servant, Franklin fled his master before his term was complete; as a struggling printer, he built a financial empire selling newspapers that not only advertised the goods of a slave economy (not to mention slaves) but also ran the notices that led to the recapture of runaway servants. Perhaps Waldstreicher's greatest achievement is in showing that this was not an ironic outcome but a calculated one. America's freedom, no less than Franklin's, demanded that others forgo liberty.

R.Dub.Fusilier

it is possable that slave ships stopped off in Ireland to pick up supplies but i dont know too much about it.

but as another poster said we were the slave trade in Ireland thanks to our nearest neighbours and oliver cromwell in particular. Irishmen women and children were dragged off to the westindies in their thousands, and later Australia, to work in scorching weather conditions and worked to death and our women folk abused and raped by english landlords. it cost far more to get a slave from africa than it did for an Irish one , as a result of this we were treated far worse by the slavers than the black slaves were. but not only did we have to contend with the harsh weather the terrible living conditions the rape and murder etc. the black slaves treated us like s**t aswell.

read "To Hell Or Barbados" by Sean O'Callaghan and read the story of the irish slave trade and all the horrors that went with it.

McArmalite

CDfm wrote: »

I was reading thru some stuff recently and came accross something on the Slaves of the Zong. There was an insurance case where the ships owners claimed for loss of slaves who had become ill and were thrown overboard. The case was about commercial loss of cargo and occured in the 1780s and the ship traded out of Liverpool.

Now Dublin was a major port and there were a few busy Irish ports. So my question is was there slavery or slaves in Ireland and/or did slave ships operate from Irish Ports.

I vaguely remember reading that when he was a young law student Henry Joy McCracken and possibly his sister used to organise protest demos of slave trading ships when they pulled into Belfast.

Fratton Fred

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

it is possable that slave ships stopped off in Ireland to pick up supplies but i dont know too much about it.

but as another poster said we were the slave trade in Ireland thanks to our nearest neighbours and oliver cromwell in particular. Irishmen women and children were dragged off to the westindies in their thousands, and later Australia, to work in scorching weather conditions and worked to death and our women folk abused and raped by english landlords. it cost far more to get a slave from africa than it did for an Irish one , as a result of this we were treated far worse by the slavers than the black slaves were. but not only did we have to contend with the harsh weather the terrible living conditions the rape and murder etc. the black slaves treated us like s**t aswell.

read "To Hell Or Barbados" by Sean O'Callaghan and read the story of the irish slave trade and all the horrors that went with it.

Read this article and then work out the numbers. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22131344-38200,00.html?from=public_rss

this claims that 70% of convicts sent to oz were English and 24% were Irish. In the mid 19th century the population of England was about twice that of Ireland, yet three times more English people were sent to Botany bay?

Also, read the article i posted earlier, it talks about white slave/indentured servents coming from the Netherlands and England, no mention of the Irish.

i am not saying that what you posted is not true, but it is a misleading way of putting it. the poor were being exported from all over europe, all the articles about the poor Irish are written in a misleading manner to portray how poor and downtrodden the Irish were, when in reality they were no more poor and down trodden than any other of the poor around europe.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Read this article and then work out the numbers. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22131344-38200,00.html?from=public_rss

this claims that 70% of convicts sent to oz were English and 24% were Irish. In the mid 19th century the population of England was about twice that of Ireland, yet three times more English people were sent to Botany bay?

Also, read the article i posted earlier, it talks about white slave/indentured servents coming from the Netherlands and England, no mention of the Irish.

i am not saying that what you posted is not true, but it is a misleading way of putting it. the poor were being exported from all over europe, all the articles about the poor Irish are written in a misleading manner to portray how poor and downtrodden the Irish were, when in reality they were no more poor and down trodden than any other of the poor around europe.

since when is the truth misleading? have a read of the book i mentioned and judge for yourself .the op was about ireland and not dutch or English poor. i do agree that the poor of england were mistreated by the english government . the reason the article didnt mention the irish being indentured was probably because we mostly were slaves and didnt have the choice of freedom after seven years in the west indies.

CDfm

Here is something I have found some stats that are interesting on Irish Slaves.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/SLAVES.TXT

But I imagine there were Irish involved in the slave trade too.

Fratton Fred

CDfm wrote: »

Here is something I have found some stats that are interesting on Irish Slaves.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/SLAVES.TXT

But I imagine there were Irish involved in the slave trade too.

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/03/18/day.shtml

CDfm

Here is a link to the Irish as Slaves with lots of links


http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/

King James II and Charles I led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Fratton Fred

CDfm wrote: »

Here is a link to the Irish as Slaves with lots of links


http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/

that article, in various guises, is all over the web.

it is too tabloidy for my liking

Agent J

Here is a link to a book on the Balitmore slavery raid...

http://www.obrien.ie/book632.cfm

CDfm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that article, in various guises, is all over the web.

it is too tabloidy for my liking

Fred - dont worry about it -I dont know if its factual or not.

But did Irish people get involved in the trade?

CDfm

There were quiet a lot of Irish in the Southern States of the US who were slave owners too

http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=17800

(In discussing the links between Irish Americans and African Americans it is always easy to oversimplify history. There have been Irish people on both sides of the slavery's coin -- some historians have asserted that during Oliver Cromwell's reign in the mid 17th century, up to 130,000 Irish people were sent into slavery. Most of these were sent to the Caribbean, but many were sent to the colonies of the New World.)





Mixing it up


When the history of relations between the two ethnic groups is retold, tales of misdeeds, mutual suspicion and bad blood tend to dominate. Episodes ranging from the New York City draft riots during the Civil War through to the "white flight" from inner cities a century later are highlighted. So too are the tensions that flowed from things as diverse as Irish domination of urban city police departments and the high-profile attained by some ethnic Irish bigots (most notably the vituperatively anti-Semitic and racist priest Fr. Charles Coughlin) in the early-to-mid decades of the last century.


But an accurate attempt at retelling Irish and African-American history should not occlude areas of racial cooperation. Irish and black Americans workers, for example, have fought side-by-side for rights in the labor movement since its earliest days. During the recent MTA transport strike, during which the heavily African-American TWU was led by Trinidadian immigrant Roger Toussaint, labor activists often invoked the name of a previous TWU leader and immigrant, Mike Quill of County Kerry, as inspiration.

Eoinp

funkydunkey wrote: »

thats right actually about baltimore. fair play. i remember that story too from when i was young. a very bloody one. as far as i recall it was an Algerian pirate ship sacked the town. thats why theres a pub there now called te algiers. or so the story goes.

O'Brien have a great book on that too:
http://obrien.ie/TitleInfo.cfm?bookID=777

Eoinp

Agent J wrote: »

Here is a link to a book on the Balitmore slavery raid...

http://www.obrien.ie/book632.cfm

Sorry, didn't see that you'd posted this already!

getz

this is what i have found on the web,MONTSERRAT,the irish presence in montserrat date back to the 1630,when the first pioneers,roman catholics said over from st kitts because of friction with british protestants settlers there,the irish planters brought enslaved africans to work in their sugar cane fields,to-day people mix their annual celebration of shamrocks and green beer with memories of an aborted slaves african revolt against irish planters. AMERICA the south they regonized the importance of the irish worker to the protection of slavery,the irish endorsement of slavery and the efforts of the irish to preserve the south as a white mans country,after emancipation only endeared them further to the southerners ,everyone was at it.

Doozie

CDfm wrote: »

So my question is was there slavery or slaves in Ireland and/or did slave ships operate from Irish Ports.

Someone earlier referred to Saint Patrick. The Irish raided settlements and captured slaves in the early christian period and the Medieval Period. Apparently Dublin was one of the biggest slave trading centres in Europe in the Medieval Period and slaves were held on (Lambay?) is. on their way to other centres.

Capt'n Midnight

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6366251.stm

Waddell Cunningham, founding president of the Belfast Chamber of Commerce and first president of the Harbour Board, numbered among those who made fortunes from slavery and tried to set up a slave company in Belfast.

A player in the trading of West Indian commodities, not only did he deal in the produce of slave labour but he was intimately involved in the trading of slaves within the islands of the Caribbean.

Following the Seven Years War he acquired a plantation of his own in Dominica, which he renamed Belfast.

He attempted to establish a slave trading company in Belfast in 1786.

For one radical Belfast citizen, Thomas McCabe, such unscrupulous commercial ambition was to be resisted.

He stood near the Old Exchange at the foot of Donegall Street and tore up the prospectus for the proposed company calling out: "May God wither the hand and consign the name to eternal infamy of the man who will sign that document."

More on
http://www.newint.org/issue255/riotous.htm

Take the case of Thomas McCabe, a Belfast jeweller and a United Irishman. In 1786, some of Belfast’s richest merchants met to discuss ways in which to become involved in the lucrative British slave trade. As they prepared to sign a document forming a slave-trade company, they were interrupted by McCabe. ‘May God wither the hand and consign the name to eternal infamy of the man who will sign that document.’ The threat worked. Unlike Bristol and Liverpool, Belfast was not drawn into the slave trade.

CDfm

This is an interesting link to a Louisiana case of a White Slave Trader and a White Slave



http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&url=http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/87.1/johnson.html

Eoinp

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it wasn't an Irish thing though, despite how it is often portrayed. This isn't the article i was looking for, but it is very similar. There is no mention of Irish people in this account.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1601-1650/mittelberger/servan.htm

There is no doubt that indenture was not limited to Irishmen and women, or that they were the only ones who were abused by the system.

If you had a fair master then the deal wasn't too bad.

In the case of the Caribbean the mortality rate was VERY high and the conditions were no better than that of the slaves who had not choice and luck and survival would not guarantee the slave an end to their toil.

What you have to ask is not what the outcome was but while the indentured servant was serving, did they in fact have freedom of action? NO they didn't, they were he temporary property of their owner, even if their eventual outcome was good if they survived, they were slaves during their term of indenture.

You wouldn't argue that an escaped slave who made good had never been a slave would you? Just because slavery is time limited does not make it any less slavery.

I guess one question you must ask is how many people entered indentures like those in the Irish in the Caribbean willingly. I'm sure some were conned into thinking it was a good deal, but many had no choice either on an economic basis or because the other choice was death or imprisonment!

Eoin

Cheeble

CDfm wrote: »

.... So my question is was there slavery or slaves in Ireland and/or did slave ships operate from Irish Ports.

From Independent.ie:

Sunday May 28 2006

JEROME REILLY
"WOMEN from 12 different nations are now officially known to have been trafficked into Ireland and effectively forced into slavery over the last six years, disturbing new research has revealed. As the sex industry in Ireland comes under the control of organised international criminal gangs, the absence of tough legislation on trafficking has turned this country into a destination of choicefor the traffickers."

getz

Cheeble wrote: »

From Independent.ie:

Sunday May 28 2006

JEROME REILLY
"WOMEN from 12 different nations are now officially known to have been trafficked into Ireland and effectively forced into slavery over the last six years, disturbing new research has revealed. As the sex industry in Ireland comes under the control of organised international criminal gangs, the absence of tough legislation on trafficking has turned this country into a destination of choicefor the traffickers."

that doesent count,because the british are not involved

junder

Dublin was a slave trading center under the vikings

CDfm

getz wrote: »

that doesent count,because the british are not involved

specifically - my question is more about slavery as a legal trade.

too right its wrong to approve of the human traffic of any person and especially young women as prostitutes

DublinDes

getz wrote: »

that doesent count,because the british are not involved

How do you know that their aren't ? And if their is, aren't they just following in the foot steps of Britain's greatest ' heros ' such as Drake and Raleigh ?

CDfm

DublinDes wrote: »

How do you know that their aren't ? And if their is, aren't they just following in the foot steps of Britain's greatest ' heros ' such as Drake and Raleigh ?

But - in other societies like africa - the whites did not go in country but got their slaves from other africans or arabs. So they had local suppliers. I wonder what happened in ireland.

in baltimore - a local irish chief directed the arab pirates

so wre there any native irish complicit in the trade of irish slaves then?

the original question was if irish were involved in the tramsportation or commerce of slaves from irish ports so this is off topic but a very interesting off topic

prisoners may not have been put to thr sword but sold into slavery

EDIT - I found this link - while it seems there was african slave trade - it does seem to be limited

http://books.google.ie/books?id=ATq5_6h2AT0C&pg=PT258&lpg=PT258&dq=african+slave+trade+ireland+and+irish+ports&source=bl&ots=5LPbt8XPx5&sig=RVhauqvCSBoe9pQQ5GUZPobnCdA&hl=en&ei=l9MWS6DnA962jAeoqOmMBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=african%20slave%20trade%20ireland%20and%20irish%20ports&f=false

afatbollix

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055533740&highlight=irish+slaves

This was posted a while ago and opened my eyes to Irish slaves...

brianthebard

DublinDes wrote: »

How do you know that their aren't ? And if their is, aren't they just following in the foot steps of Britain's greatest ' heros ' such as Drake and Raleigh ?

Clever. Less of this stuff, stick to the historical facts. Mod.

CDfm

Here isa link to a book review that details some involvement including mentioning a black american who spoke irish,Samuel Burke

http://www.irlandeses.org/0711burtonb1.htm

odgers’ analysis of Ireland’s connection with the slave trade highlights some undisputed facts. Since Britain governed Ireland on the garrison principal, treating the island as a colony in its imperial mercantile system, imposing taxes and exporting goods, such as butter and beef, to West Indian plantations, the island’s economy languished under British control. Ireland’s exclusion from membership of the slave-trading Royal Africa Company - whose initials, RAC, were branded into the chests of Africans - meant that the island was banned from participation in the infamous triangular trade for most of the eighteenth century. With Ireland’s economy subservient to Britain’s economy, it lacked the capacity to produce the wide range of manufactured goods demanded by the dehumanising commerce in people, including chains, cooking pots, cutlery, trading irons, and firearms, all produced in Britain. Maintaining a well-funded lobby at Westminster, planters of the sugar islands - ‘the spoiled children of the empire’ - were economically and intellectually tied to Britain. Rodgers argues that in 1784, plans to engage in the slave trade, hatched by merchants in Limerick and Belfast, did not come to fruition. The Dublin Chamber of Commerce proudly observed that Ireland was unsullied by the ‘odious slave trade’. In 1788, the Chamber observed with satisfaction that ‘the traffic in human species does not appear to have ever been carried on from this kingdom

topper75

CDfm wrote: »

Here isa link to a book review that details some involvement including mentioning a black american who spoke irish,Samuel Burke

Why don't they teach such things in school. I had heard of Frederick Douglas (no thanks to An Roinn Oideachas), but the curiousity of Samuel Burke is new to me. Kids should be made read boards.ie in class as a more direct route to enlightenment!;)

That book looks good - but ain't cheap - $155 on Amazon for example.

CDfm

topper75 wrote: »

Why don't they teach such things in school. I had heard of Frederick Douglas (no thanks to An Roinn Oideachas), but the curiousity of Samuel Burke is new to me. Kids should be made read boards.ie in class as a more direct route to enlightenment!;)

Its cool and very interesting.Its revived my interest in History. I was never told about slavery in school or that it had happened in my home town.

mrtaylor1981

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i am not saying that what you posted is not true, but it is a misleading way of putting it. the poor were being exported from all over europe, all the articles about the poor Irish are written in a misleading manner to portray how poor and downtrodden the Irish were, when in reality they were no more poor and down trodden than any other of the poor around europe.

As R.Dub.Fusilier says " the op was about ireland and not dutch or English poor. "

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

since when is the truth misleading? have a read of the book i mentioned and judge for yourself .the op was about ireland and not dutch or English poor. i do agree that the poor of england were mistreated by the english government . the reason the article didnt mention the irish being indentured was probably because we mostly were slaves and didnt have the choice of freedom after seven years in the west indies.

Fred Fratton above is trying to use what is called the Straw man tatic, i.e. a straw man is a fallacy in which a different topic is introduced in order to divert attention from the original issue.

getz

indented servents[slaves] were english as well as irish,sent to the colonies,people who committed crimes[like being in debt or stealing a slice of bread] would be sent to the colonies,just ask the australians,many people from both ireland and even more from england were sent out there,even up to the 20th century,but slavery is a little different,young woman were kidnapped from ireland,mainly because it was easy to get away with it, and sent to the west indies, the plantation owners wanted white woman in some of the irelands there were irish plantation owners only ,and they themselves allso took on the woman, even after it was illegal in britain it still went on in the americas

CDfm

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

As R.Dub.Fusilier says " the op was about ireland and not dutch or English poor. "

I am the OP and it wasnt limited to any nationality.

The Zong incident occured in 1781 and it involved black slaves being thrown overboard to claim insurance.

so you didnt specifically have irish slave trade in africans as you did out of liverpool.

Fred Fratton above is trying to use what is called the Straw man tatic, i.e. a straw man is a fallacy in which a different topic is introduced in order to divert attention from the original issue.

I dont know here as it happened in Britain too.

Just say the debate over did Cromwell massacre Drogheda or did he sell the population into slavery.

Did indiginous Irish sell other Irish into slavery.You shouldnt be afraid to think the unthinkable.

Its not a great leap in the imagination that peopke signed up as indentured servants to make their passage to America.

Coffin ships -were these former slavers.

I mean the raid of baltimore had 2 ships and two captains from Dungarvan as part of the raid.

http://www.from-ireland.net/cor/hist/baltimoreraid.htm

On Sunday the 19th of June 1631, two boats were taken from Dungarvan, in Co. Waterford, each about 12 tons burden and went to the old head of Kinsale, Co. Cork

John Hackett the master of the first, from Dungarvan was ordered to bring his boat into Kinsale but he refused saying that the place was too hot for them, for besides the fort there was the King's ships, and so the boats set sail for Baltimore, Co. Cork.

John Hackett was tried at the assises in Cork, condemned and executed for his part in this affair.

The Master of the second boat was Thomas Carew also from Dungarvan.

These boats had been pirated and were manned with Turks and Renagadoes.

Red Hand

junder wrote: »

Dublin was a slave trading center under the vikings

Yes indeed. At one point, Viking Dublin had one of the largest slave markets in Europe.

CDfm

I think I have found our elusive irish slave traders- a short exceprt

http://www.historyireland.com//volumes/volume15/issue3/features/?id=164

The Irish and the Atlantic slave trade
It was the Stuarts who introduced the Irish to the slave trade. Charles II returned to the throne in 1660 at a time when it was becoming clear that sugar plantations were as valuable as gold-mines. The Royal Africa Company (RAC) was established to supply slaves to the British West Indies in order to extend production. Irish names can be found among those working for the RAC. Among the most successful was William Ronan, who worked in West Africa for a decade (1687–97). A Catholic Irishman, he rose to become the chairman of the committee of merchants at Cape Castle in present-day Ghana, his career apparently unhindered by the ascent of William of Orange. In the seventeenth century Europeans saw slaving as respectable and desirable. It was conveniently accepted that Africans sold into slavery by their rulers were prisoners of war, who would otherwise have been slaughtered. Thus export to the Americas offered them prolonged life in a Christian society.

Victor

getz wrote: »

the plantation owners wanted white woman

Actually no.

CDfm

Victor wrote: »

Actually no.

on an aside - i have some distant relatives from new orleans who are black

the story was that the guys married them as they had trades as seamstresses etc.

you did get intermarriage and white women married black guys after the american civil war beacause they had trades and made better money than the unskilled irish,

i am trying to find out now how the irish slave trade in irish worked

getz

Victor wrote: »

Actually no.

i was just quoting from the book,by pete mccarthy called mccarthys bar

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Read this article and then work out the numbers. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22131344-38200,00.html?from=public_rss

this claims that 70% of convicts sent to oz were English and 24% were Irish. In the mid 19th century the population of England was about twice that of Ireland, yet three times more English people were sent to Botany bay?

So if 70% were English and 24% were Irish, the Scots and Welsh only made up 6% of the convicts sent to Australia....... post's a load of tripe.

Also, read the article i posted earlier, it talks about white slave/indentured servents coming from the Netherlands and England, no mention of the Irish.

i am not saying that what you posted is not true, but it is a misleading way of putting it. the poor were being exported from all over europe, all the articles about the poor Irish are written in a misleading manner to portray how poor and downtrodden the Irish were, when in reality they were no more poor and down trodden than any other of the poor around europe.

Yes we are quite well aware that the Irish were not the only downtrodden people in Europe. It's been more than pointed out in the discussions on other forums regarding the wearing of the poppy that Irishmen were invovled in some of the worst aspects of the british empire, albeit that most of them probably were economic conscripts. But like any society we have had our fair share of degenerates, hence we do not see why people should honour those who carried out sich deeds by wearing the poppy - which commerates ALL those who served in britain's forces and carried out such various dispicable acts such as slavery etc