Banning of minarets in Switzerland

oscarBravo

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Immigration has brought Islam (4.3%, predominantly Kosovars, Bosniaks and Turks)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Religion
Second paragraph.

As I said foreigners like to have sex and then comes children...

...and those children are "foreigners", as are their children, and theirs...?

After how many generations of being born in Switzerland do they become Swiss? Or are they "foreigners" by definition, because they are Muslim?

peasant

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and those children are "foreigners", as are their children, and theirs...?

After how many generations of being born in Switzerland do they become Swiss? Or are they "foreigners" by definition, because they are Muslim?

answers:

see here http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/immigration/citizenship/index.html

alastair

peasant wrote: »

There is another issue that piggy-backs with a minarett and that is the call to prayer. The sole purpose of a minarett is that the muezzin goes up there five times a day to praise Allah and call his congreation to prayer.

I for one can understand (and do support the idea) that Swiss people are not in favour of being woken by amplified calls of "Allah u Akhbar" at sunrise.
(It's cowbells and church bells they are used to and want to stick with)

The Swiss drew a line in the sand, rather than wrangling with individual mosks about whether or not they could have a minarett and/or a muezzin.

All well and good, but none of the four (count em) minarets in Switzerland broadcast the muezzin - it's not allowed in that country. The minarets are simply (silent) towers on mosques. The nonsense that banning those new minarets that were seeking planning permission is going to undermine radical islam is pretty obvious - the core mosque at issue is a Turkish one - not a nation known for their radical religious beliefs. Most of the muslims in Switzerland come from nations with a pretty tepid angle on their religion. And the party stirring this whole issue up are the Swiss equivalent of UKIP - equal opportunity xenophobes.

peasant

oscarBravo wrote: »

How many minarets have been built in Swiss villages?

None so far, as I'm aware, they have only got four in towns.
(which might be the reason for the total ban as there are four cases of precedence which make denial of planning all the more complicated)

you have to admit though ...the minaretts just look cack and totally out of context (below links to mosks in Olten and Zurich)

donaghs

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

I'm really shocked by this. Switzerland was always meant to be a state which promoted neutrality - this grossly discriminatory decision illustrates that neutral positions towards religious freedoms are becoming eclipsed by rightwing agendas (and let's be honest, when we say 'religious freedoms' it's usually christian vs muslim agendas).

The question of immigration and integration is hugely complex and I don't mean to disagree directly with the posters above. But this decision in Switzerland says a lot about the erosion of the moral high ground which many western liberal thinkers have held until now. With the BNP on the rise in the UK, I wonder how long will it take for us Irish (who have never been particularly keen on non-white/christian immigrants, even during the boom years) to start deeper forays into far right politics, like the Swiss?

You may be confusing Swiss neutrality with the more docile Irish variety. The Swiss have always been ready to defend their neutrality, hence the huge modern conscript armed forces. Also, Swiss soldiers keep their personal weapons at home; Swiss homes, apartment blocks, office must have a bomb/radiation shelter; and key bridges and tunnels are constructed with emplacements for explosive-mines & tank traps.

The Swiss are quite a insular looking people. They'd always felt threatened by their larger 3 (previously 4) neighbours. Internationally speaking, they like to keep to themselves are only relatively recently have joined a few organisations like the UN. The Swiss also have some of the strictest immigration laws. They permit lots of foreign people to work in Switzerland (and have taken in many refugees), but no-one has an automatic right to citizenship, even children born of foreigners in Switzerland.

There's a few things I don't like about Switzerland, and this minarets things reflects that insular-ness. But I think its still a very democratic country with a high degree of tolerance and freedom. An interesting comparison is Quebec's "intraculturalism".

imstrongerthanu

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and those children are "foreigners", as are their children, and theirs...?

After how many generations of being born in Switzerland do they become Swiss? Or are they "foreigners" by definition, because they are Muslim?

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

Lame Lantern

peasant wrote: »

To bring this thread down to a more factual level:
Switzerland did not ban Islam, nor did it ban mosks or prayer houses or islamic worship.
They did ban the building of structures that are positively alien to local custom and architecture. Banning them outright, instead of through the back door of planning laws.

Doing it by means of legislation or planning laws would have made sense if we were to follow your logic. This was a national referendum executed for no practical reason, intended only to demonise a minority for the sake of disgraceful, sectarian political gain. No rhetoric leading into the election involved discussing the disruption of Swiss small-town panoramas. It was a poll designed to legitimise the arbitrary contempt of Islam in a nation of rampant racism (not directed solely at the Muslim population) and to rally the misguided anti-immigration vote.

oscarBravo

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

An immigrant is someone who has moved from another country. Someone born in Switzerland is not, by definition, an immigrant to Switzerland.

Are you claiming that no Muslims have ever been born in Switzerland? Or are you claiming that being Muslim automatically classes you as an immigrant?

Flamed Diving

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

Did your ancestors grow out of the soil?

AlekSmart

The Swiss run their country their way. If people don't like it, they can go elsewhere. Many of these Muslims were given sanctuary during the Balkan war and were damn glad to get it. They should remember that.

A big +1 to that sentiment,and thus far they appear to have done a reasonably good job of it too.

It`s refreshing to see the native Irish begrudgery for OTHER countries self-governance in full flight as we continue to prove our own lack of ability in this area......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outcry-over-councils-83643m-bill-to-house-six-traveller-families-1958626.html

To answer Oscar Bravo`s question,

How many minarets have been built in Swiss villages?

.

I`d imagine a hell of a lot less than the above !

Flamed Diving

AlekSmart wrote: »

A big +1 to that sentiment,and thus far they appear to have done a reasonably good job of it too.

It`s refreshing to see the native Irish begrudgery for OTHER countries self-governance in full flight as we continue to prove our own lack of ability in this area......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outcry-over-councils-83643m-bill-to-house-six-traveller-families-1958626.html

To answer Oscar Bravo`s question,.

I`d imagine a hell of a lot less than the above !

Irish council housing Irish families.

How... relevant.

Euro_Kraut

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

How many of Muslim population living in Switzerland do not have Swiss citizenship?

Having lived on the Swiss/Austrian boarder I can tell you that a high number of second generation Turks live in the region. They have been born and raised in the region and are not immgrants.

On the wider issue, people need to realise that this vote was an attempt by a far right party to stoke populist fears against Islam. Planning Depts of local councils had the right to refuse premission of these buildings on a case by case basis. Very few were ever approved.

It has been pointed out that many Islamic Nations are intolerant of Christains churches. This is true. Its a shame though that a Western nation is holding itself to the same standards as a nutcase regime in Saudi Arabia.

Flamed Diving

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Its a shame though that a Western nation is holding itself to the same standards as a nutcase regime in Saudi Arabia.

Precisely. As are people in this thread, for that matter.

AlekSmart

Originally Posted by Euro_Kraut
Its a shame though that a Western nation is holding itself to the same standards as a nutcase regime in Saudi Arabia.

I rather suspect that the Swiss electorate (Is Voting compulsory there ?) are bright enough to see little comparison with the Internal Affairs of the Kingdom of SA.

It`s somewhat unsettling,however,to observe just how great an influence this "Nutcase Regieme" exercises over the developed "Liberal",Tolerant" Western World.......Oh well...that`s life I suppose ?

geuro

Somebody posted some pictures of Swiss minarets above, commenting that "the minaretts just look cack and totally out of context ".

They don't look cack. And they aren't out of context. They look like symbols of a place of worship and I don't find them aesthetically offensive. They are not out of context for the worshippers that attend those mosques as their places of prayer.

If it were the case that everyone in town was "being woken by amplified calls of "Allah u Akhbar" at sunrise", as another poster suggested, well then I could understand how it could be a problem. But this isn't the case, these are silent structures, symbols of the faith to which a significant proportion of the local population subscribe.

Flamed Diving

When is the Youtube video coming?

Euro_Kraut

AlekSmart wrote: »

Is Voting compulsory there ?

No. Turnout was just above 50%.

Roro4Brit

I'm still torn on this subject. I need to think more about it.

imstrongerthanu

oscarBravo wrote: »

An immigrant is someone who has moved from another country. Someone born in Switzerland is not, by definition, an immigrant to Switzerland.

Are you claiming that no Muslims have ever been born in Switzerland? Or are you claiming that being Muslim automatically classes you as an immigrant?

Very good.
I'm saying for the third or fourth time that, 400,000 Immigrants are immigrants. Understand?
If your born in a country your not an immigrant are you? .....duh?

imstrongerthanu

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

How many of Muslim population living in Switzerland do not have Swiss citizenship?

Having lived on the Swiss/Austrian boarder I can tell you that a high number of second generation Turks live in the region. They have been born and raised in the region and are not immgrants.

On the wider issue, people need to realise that this vote was an attempt by a far right party to stoke populist fears against Islam. Planning Depts of local councils had the right to refuse premission of these buildings on a case by case basis. Very few were ever approved.

It has been pointed out that many Islamic Nations are intolerant of Christains churches. This is true. Its a shame though that a Western nation is holding itself to the same standards as a nutcase regime in Saudi Arabia.

Immigrants; do you require a definition of the word?

oscarBravo

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Very good.
I'm saying for the third or fourth time that, 400,000 Immigrants are immigrants. Understand?
If your born in a country your not an immigrant are you? .....duh?

To date, the evidence you have adduced for this claim is a Wikipedia article describing 4.3% of the Swiss population as Muslim, and ascribing this fact to immigration.

If you think this constitutes proof that every Muslim in Switzerland is an immigrant, then I can't argue the topic further with you.

alastair

Let me guess - the four minarets acted as some sort of devious portal for immigrants to enter Switzerland? Clearly now that the planning permission refusal for a fifth has been rubber-stamped with a national ban, that whole johnny foreigner in our midst problem will go away.

Euro_Kraut

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Immigrants; do you require a definition of the word?

No. But I think you do.

Plenty of Muslims in Switzerland, just like in Germany and Austria were born there.

stop

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

No. But I think you do.

Plenty of Muslims in Switzerland, just like in Germany and Austria were born there.

Doesn't make them Swiss..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_nationality_law#Birth

AlekSmart

Let me guess - the four minarets acted as some sort of devious portal for immigrants to enter Switzerland? Clearly now that the planning permission refusal for a fifth has been rubber-stamped with a national ban, that whole johnny foreigner in our midst problem will go away.

A big fuss over nuttin perhaps.....over here a bit of an oul Section 4 would have sorted them lads out...:)

Euro_Kraut

stop wrote: »

Doesn't make them Swiss..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_nationality_law#Birth

Doesn't make them immgrants though. That is the point one poster seem to be deliberaty missing.

Executive Steve

Mr.Micro wrote: »

One could argue that minarets are quite out of place in many western countries any way from a planning perspective at least.

How would you go about arguing that though?

The last time a middle eastern religion was this popular in Europe it resulted in it's adherents building loads of buildings with big pointy towers that had these huge brass bells in them to call the faithful to prayer and to chime the hour; how is it any different that this time the big towers have a loudspeaker in them to call the faithful to prayer and to chime the hour?

dan_d

Hmm.Interesting.
Switzerland is THE central country in Europe. Yet it has made itself a neutral and KEPT that over the years. A very tricky thing to do, given it's geographical location. If you visit Switzerland you find they all speak at least 2 languages fluently, and a third, sometimes a fourth, very well, which would indicate that they are actually quite open to other nationalities.
Personally I'd look at it as follows. The Swiss and the Austrians have extremely strict laws governing construction and ensuring that ALL buildings built are in keeping with the character of the locality.Minarets are - not. Call it what you like, but they are entitled to pass this ban, as otherwise it's essentially breaking their country's laws.
Also if you were in a Muslim country and you didn't abide by their laws, you'd find out about it fairly damn quickly. And it wouldn't be in a polite "let's have a referendum about it" way either.

imstrongerthanu

oscarBravo wrote: »

To date, the evidence you have adduced for this claim is a Wikipedia article describing 4.3% of the Swiss population as Muslim, and ascribing this fact to immigration.

If you think this constitutes proof that every Muslim in Switzerland is an immigrant, then I can't argue the topic further with you.

I said 4.3% are muslim immigrants.I can't make it any more simplified for you to grasp.
Feel free to keep arguing the definition of immigrants.

Lemming

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Switzerland as of 2009 = 7 739 100 people
4.3% of 7 739 100 = 332 781.3 people

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I said 4.3% are muslim immigrants.I can't make it any more simplified for you to grasp.
Feel free to keep arguing the definition of immigrants.

Apologies folks. First of all, I'm going to call "Troll".

Secondly (and yes I acknowledge feeding the troll); of that 332 781.3 people (which isn't 400,000 but by your own calculations 332,781.3);

• how many were born in Switzerland?
• How many hold Swiss citizenship?
• How many actually were born elsewhere?
• How many actually hold citizenship from another country?

Simple enough to grasp?

I suspect the breakdown will reduce the number of immigrants significantly from 332,781.3 ... which we all know is less than 400,000 anyway. Saying that all muslims in Switzerland are immigrants because of their religion is both exceptionally dishonest argument and not to put it bluntly, out-and-out racist.

dvpower

dan_d wrote: »

Hmm.Interesting.
Switzerland is THE central country in Europe.

Ya wha?

dan_d wrote: »

Personally I'd look at it as follows. The Swiss and the Austrians have extremely strict laws governing construction and ensuring that ALL buildings built are in keeping with the character of the locality.

Em, Ok. So no need for a referendum then, right?

dan_d wrote: »

Minarets are - not. Call it what you like, but they are entitled to pass this ban, as otherwise it's essentially breaking their country's laws.

Oh dear.

Nodin

Clanrickard wrote: »

A great day for democracy. If you want to see shameful sectarianism countries with Sharia law are the place to go.

So because Saudi Arabia and (say) Iran are inolerant states, all others should emulate them?

Your definition of democracy (and a few others) seems to pertain to the 'mob rule' variety.

dvpower

peasant wrote: »

To bring this thread down to a more factual level:

Ok. Will this include many facts?

peasant wrote: »

Switzerland did not ban Islam, nor did it ban mosks or prayer houses or islamic worship.
They did ban the building of structures that are positively alien to local custom and architecture. Banning them outright, instead of through the back door of planning laws.

(I would suspect that they did it that way because planning laws weren't written with minaretts specifically in mind)

Why do you suspect this? The SVP, Switzerland's largest party, who proposed the referendum have said:

Martin Baltisser, SVP general secretary wrote:

"This was a vote against minarets as symbols of Islamic power."

peasant wrote: »

There is another issue that piggy-backs with a minarett and that is the call to prayer. The sole purpose of a minarett is that the muezzin goes up there five times a day to praise Allah and call his congreation to prayer.

I for one can understand (and do support the idea) that Swiss people are not in favour of being woken by amplified calls of "Allah u Akhbar" at sunrise.

This referendum didn't ban a call to prayer. The existing minarets are not allowed to broadcast the call to prayer.

peasant wrote: »

The Swiss drew a line in the sand, rather than wrangling with individual mosks about whether or not they could have a minarett and/or a muezzin.

Yes ..this could be qualified as intolerant ...but so could the insistance of muslims to build a minarett and call to prayer in the middle of a Swiss village.

Line in the sand, my arse. The Swiss didn't have the bottle to draw any line in the sand, so they passed this vindictive law instead.

the_syco

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I said 4.3% are muslim immigrants.I can't make it any more simplified for you to grasp.
Feel free to keep arguing the definition of immigrants.

I'm finding it hard to find where you got this 4.3% bit.

geuro

the_syco wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to find where you got this 4.3% bit.

This link says 4.5%:

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Europe/Switzerland-RELIGIONS.html

Any other wiki entry or internet source i found is the same ballpark..

Flamed Diving

Does anyone here know the difference between a Muslim and an immigrant?

HINT: They are not always the same.

:rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

How would you go about arguing that though?

The last time a middle eastern religion was this popular in Europe it resulted in it's adherents building loads of buildings with big pointy towers that had these huge brass bells in them to call the faithful to prayer and to chime the hour; how is it any different that this time the big towers have a loudspeaker in them to call the faithful to prayer and to chime the hour?

In 2009 the democratic majority of the Swiss do not want them and have voted so. The pointy towers with the brass bells came first when there was nothing else, and are still there, so clearly the Swiss are not willing to share the skyline with minarets when the pointy towers with the brass bells have had it to themselves for centuries.

the_syco

geuro wrote: »

This link says 4.5%:

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Europe/Switzerland-RELIGIONS.html

Any other wiki entry or internet source i found is the same ballpark..

So, from 4.3% to 4.5%. Wiki's are not that reliable, it would seem?

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

4.3% of the population are Muslim immigrants.

Actually, the site says 4.3 of the population is Muslim. As many people are converting to Muslim (it's a fast expanding religion), some of that 4.3% would be already Swiss. For example, here's an article about 30,000 women have converted to the Muslim religion. Thus these 30,00 Swiss Muslim wouldn't be Muslim immigrants.They would be just 30,000 Muslims.

imstrongerthanu

Lemming wrote: »

Apologies folks. First of all, I'm going to call "Troll".

Secondly (and yes I acknowledge feeding the troll); of that 332 781.3 people (which isn't 400,000 but by your own calculations 332,781.3);

• how many were born in Switzerland?
• How many hold Swiss citizenship?
• How many actually were born elsewhere?
• How many actually hold citizenship from another country?

Simple enough to grasp?

I suspect the breakdown will reduce the number of immigrants significantly from 332,781.3 ... which we all know is less than 400,000 anyway. Saying that all muslims in Switzerland are immigrants because of their religion is both exceptionally dishonest argument and not to put it bluntly, out-and-out racist.

I'm going to call troll on you as well.

In 2000, foreigners from non-EU/EFTA countries accounted for the "MAJORITY" of Switzerland's Muslims, Orthodox Christians, and Hindus. By far the largest of these religions was Islam: about 311,000 residents of Switzerland were Muslim in 2000, or 4.3 percent of the country's total population at the time, according to the Swiss Federal Statistical Office.

If you want to nit pick go ahead- that's not one of my hobbies.Your not doing yourself any favours.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

Also if you were in a Muslim country and you didn't abide by their laws, you'd...

...probably be arrested. As you would be in a Christian/Western country.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The pointy towers with the brass bells came first when there was nothing else, and are still there, so clearly the Swiss are not willing to share the skyline with minarets when the pointy towers with the brass bells have had it to themselves for centuries.

Integration is a two-way street. The sensible approach would have been to examine the possibility of adapting the minarets to the local surroundings in each individual case. Of course, I’m assuming there that this referendum was purely about architecture...

oscarBravo

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I said 4.3% are muslim immigrants.I can't make it any more simplified for you to grasp.
Feel free to keep arguing the definition of immigrants.

Yes, you keep saying it, but - contrary to popular belief - repeating something often enough won't magically make it true.

I'm prepared to accept that 4.3% of the population of Switzerland are Muslim. I'm even prepared to accept that a substantial percentage of that percentage are are immigrants.

What I'm not prepared to accept without further evidence is a claim that every Muslim in Switzerland is an immigrant. If you continue to push this line without offering any evidence, I will conclude that you are trolling - and that's a call I can make, as forum moderator - and take action accordingly. You have been warned.

imstrongerthanu

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, you keep saying it, but - contrary to popular belief - repeating something often enough won't magically make it true.

I'm prepared to accept that 4.3% of the population of Switzerland are Muslim. I'm even prepared to accept that a substantial percentage of that percentage are are immigrants.

What I'm not prepared to accept without further evidence is a claim that every Muslim in Switzerland is an immigrant. If you continue to push this line without offering any evidence, I will conclude that you are trolling - and that's a call I can make, as forum moderator - and take action accordingly. You have been warned.

Show me where I said that all Swiss Muslims are immigrants.

Flamed Diving

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Switzerland as of 2009 = 7 739 100 people
4.3% of 7 739 100 = 332 781.3 people



4.3% of the population are Muslim immigrants.
Next time dish out insults to someone else!

Immigration has brought Islam (4.3%, predominantly Kosovars, Bosniaks and Turks)

According to the Confederate census of 2001, a total number of 310,807 Muslims were living in Switzerland which made up 4.26% of the total population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Switzerland

?

peasant

Just on a side note:
Switzerland isn't, never was and probably never will be a particularly tolerant country.
When it comes to upholding their particular understandings of neutrality, tradition and peculiar federal democracy one could even almost go as far as to call them fundamentalist.

That's the way they have always been.

We "tolerant nations" apparently have no problem in accepting that some muslim countries are more fundamentalist than others ...what's the big deal about accepting a fundamentalist European country?

Who exactly is being intolerant here? The Swiss sticking up for their way of life or all the other countries deriding them for it?


(Having said that, personally I wouldn't want to have to live in Switzerland either, particularly not as a foreigner and especially not as a muslim)

Flamed Diving

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

I don't know...

ChocolateSauce

This is a prime example of why democracy must be limited. Mob rule in Switzerland has infringed on the right to expression and the right to religion.

I don't think for a second that this anti-freedom decision will stand- a court will rightly overturn it.

The way to fight Islam isn't by banning it (that just lowers those who ban it to the level of Arabia or Afghanistan) or its symbols, but by speaking out against it, and by ensuring Muslims aren't excluded or marginalised in our countries.

peasant

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Mob rule in Switzerland has infringed on the right to expression and the right to religion.

They banned Islam?
Boycott Toblerone !

Lemming

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

I'm going to call troll on you as well.

In 2000, foreigners from non-EU/EFTA countries accounted for the "MAJORITY" of Switzerland's Muslims, Orthodox Christians, and Hindus. By far the largest of these religions was Islam: about 311,000 residents of Switzerland were Muslim in 2000, or 4.3 percent of the country's total population at the time, according to the Swiss Federal Statistical Office.

You are still assuming that that 311,000 - which is clearly less than the outcries of 400,000 you made earlier - are all

• Immigrants (born elsewhere)
• Immigrants (holding citizenship elsewhere)
• That EU citizens cannot be muslim
• That 311,000 (clearly less than 400,000) Muslim residents are ALL immigrants.

Now, I'm sure that the largest religious demographic among non-nationals (either EU or otherwise) could well be muslim, but you are reading into the statistics wrong. What you have written above states that 311,000 people residing inside the Swiss borders are of the muslim faith. It says nothing about immigrant numbers.

oscarBravo

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Show me where I said that all Swiss Muslims are immigrants.

OK, since you're determined to post like a four-year-old, I'll explain this like you're four years old.

As you yourself have pointed out, 4.3% of the Swiss population is Muslim.

4.3% of the population of Switzerland is a little over 330,000. We'll use your version of maths, and round that up to 400,000.

Therefore, there are 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland.

So, when you ask the question:

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

What part of 400,000 immigrants don't you understand.

(your emphasis), you are conflating immigrants with Muslims.

If I've misunderstood your point somewhere along the way, please feel free to explain - from first principles - what your point is, and what exactly immigrants have got to do with a thread about a referendum on minarets.

Alternatively, if you don't plan to make an intelligent contribution to the thread, please feel free to not bother posting at all.

Sand

The way to fight Islam isn't by banning it (that just lowers those who ban it to the level of Arabia or Afghanistan) or its symbols, but by speaking out against it, and by ensuring Muslims aren't excluded or marginalised in our countries.

Sorry youre talking about Islam like it was Neo-Nazism? Are we fighting it? Why?

The Swiss result did not ban Islam, it didnt ban religious freedoms. It just banned the freedom to build minarets. In itself its fairly .... meh. More important for how it signals a deeper issue, a rejection of multiculturalism. Especially given the vote was strongest amongst women, not exactly the typical neo-nazi heartland.

I also think its a mistake to confuse immigration issues with religious issues. It only offers space for religious groups to claim leadership roles, replacing the standard citizen-state relationship with some sort of middle man, which has its own agenda and can often be hostile to integration.