Jacobs to take retailers to court for importing from UK

schween

The biscuit manufacturer Jacobs is to take unnamed Irish retailers to court in order to stop them from importing their products from cheaper UK rivals.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1126/jacob.html

Apparently McVities in the UK owns the rights to manufacture and distribute the likes of Fig Rolls in the UK but Irish retailers are bypassing Jacobs in Ireland and importing them from McVities at lower prices.

The woman from RGDATA does have a point about the free flow of goods within the EU. I presume Tesco is one of the main offenders, but it does say a number of Irish retailers.

Can they stop them? It says they stopped a Donegal retailer from doing the same thing. Now they are taking on the larger chains I presume.

Diarmuid

Let's hope Jacobs lose this.

Ste.phen

Wouldn't that be grossly illegal? (the trying to stop them, not the importing from outside Ireland?)

Free market and all that...

I hope they lose, what a load of crap if you ask me. If they do win, what next, customs coming in and checking deliveries to all retailers :rolleyes:

Gary ITR

Diarmuid wrote: »

Let's hope Jacobs lose this.

As a matter of interest why is that? You do know they still create, directly and indirectly a lot of employment in an area of Dublin that has a huge amount of unemployed people

ednwireland

i would have thought that under EU law the distributor has no right to do this, but as they hav already won a case in donegal, my guess is theres something i dont know about in eu law (suprise, suprise seeing as i know nothing about EU law) just thought we hada free market - obviousley not

leeroybrown

Unfortunately, I suspect that they'll win it. The retailers in question will likely be found to be in breach of Jacobs' trade marks for these products. It's got nothing to do with the import of the item which is legal, but instead the rights that are in place for those trade marks in this jurisdiction.

It just gets more stupid by the day in this country, are we part of the EU, did we really vote yes to Lisbon

Will I be taken to court next week as I do my grocery shopping in the north

ardmacha

You can import the product but not label it as Jacobs. The same would apply to the likes of Tayto, the superior northern Tayto could probably not be sold in the 26 counties as Tayto, although if they called it something else there would probably not be a problem.

Euro_Kraut

This take the biscuit.

leeroybrown

hellboy99 wrote: »

It just gets more stupid by the day in this country, are we part of the EU, did we really vote yes to Lisbon

It's got nothing to do with Lisbon. It's a trademark dispute. Any business that has the rights to a trademark in Ireland can take legal action to protect it against any business that violates it within Ireland. I can't just turn around tomorrow and start selling my own 'Jaffa Cakes' here. If the name on the packet was different it wouldn't be an issue.

Euro_Kraut

schween wrote: »

The woman from RGDATA ....

Was the same women who was on the Radio last Tuesday giving out about shoppers travelling to the North when they could stay in the Republic and 'support local retailers'.

So basicallly it okay from them to import product from the UK and sell it on to us but it immoral for us to go to the UK ourselves.

road_high

Far as I am aware Jacobs don't produce in ireland any more. Think their Tallaght plant is long closed and looked that way last time I passed it.
So this is hypocrisy and protectionism if true.

Gary ITR

leeroybrown wrote: »

I can't just turn around tomorrow and start selling my own 'Jaffa Cakes' here. If the name on the packet was different it wouldn't be an issue.

You can actually 'Jaffa Cake' isn't a protected name

There are Cadburys, McVitties, Dunnes, Tesco etc etc Jaffa Cakes

leeroybrown

leeroybrown wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with Lisbon. It's a trademark dispute. Any business that has the rights to a trademark in Ireland can take legal action to protect it against any business that violates it within Ireland.

Well when they're done with them they may take all the other retailers here to court for going up north, buying stock and splitting "not for resale" multi-packs and selling it here.

Gary ITR

mfitzy wrote: »

Far as I am aware Jacobs don't produce in ireland any more. Think their Tallaght plant is long closed and looked that way last time I passed it.
So this is hypocrisy and protectionism if true.

They are still producing in Ireland. And have a Sales team, marketing team, distribution network etc etc

leeroybrown

Onkle wrote: »

You can actually 'Jaffa Cake' isn't a protected name

Arse. It's inevitable that I'd end up picking an unprotected name as an example. I hate bloody Jaffa Cakes too...

hellboy99 wrote: »

Well when they're done with them they may take all the other retailers here to court for going up north, buying stock and splitting "not for resale" multi-packs and selling it here.

I'd suspect that the northern wholesalers and UK manufacturers would need to become involved for that to go work, and they know what side their bread is buttered on at the moment!

Phoenix3

Onkle wrote: »

As a matter of interest why is that? You do know they still create, directly and indirectly a lot of employment in an area of Dublin that has a huge amount of unemployed people

Lets Face it.Jacobs/Fruitfield decided to save money by taking their manufacturing side of the business out of Ireland for the purpose of saving on costs.What is happening at the moment is a similar cost saving exercise,the only difference being that the consumer is saving.Where lies the problem?

Gary ITR

Phoenix3 wrote: »

Where lies the problem?

The loss of even more jobs. I'd happily pay a few cents more for my fig rolls if it means saving Irish jobs

Diarmuid

Onkle wrote: »

The loss of even more jobs. I'd happily pay a few cents more for my fig rolls if it means saving Irish jobs

Considering Ireland exports a lot more than it imports, we can be thankful that our foreign trade partners don't have the same attitude as you. Otherwise say goodbye to a lot more Irish jobs.

bamboozle

schween wrote: »

The biscuit manufacturer Jacobs is to take unnamed Irish retailers to court in order to stop them from importing their products from cheaper UK rivals.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1126/jacob.html

Apparently McVities in the UK owns the rights to manufacture and distribute the likes of Fig Rolls in the UK but Irish retailers are bypassing Jacobs in Ireland and importing them from McVities at lower prices.

The woman from RGDATA does have a point about the free flow of goods within the EU. I presume Tesco is one of the main offenders, but it does say a number of Irish retailers.

Can they stop them? It says they stopped a Donegal retailer from doing the same thing. Now they are taking on the larger chains I presume.

i refuse to shop in tesco, its one certain way to undermine irish producers & employment of irish workers in irish companies trying to sell to supermarkets.

getz

bamboozle wrote: »

i refuse to shop in tesco, its one certain way to undermine irish producers & employment of irish workers in irish companies trying to sell to supermarkets.

i wonder what would happen if people in other countries refused to buy irish ,because cheap goods effects their jobs,ireland is in the EU and has been taking money from other EU taxpayers from day one,get over it

ConsiderThis

Thsi has been happening for years. I remember, in the 1980's, a distributor in Dublin sending a VAN to a cash and carry in Newry to buy Jacobs Cream crackers there, as it was cheaper to do that than to buy direct from Jacobs in Dublin. From memory, I think the cream crackers in Newry were made in Dublin. He then sold the cream crackers to Irish Supermarkets and voluntary chains.

bamboozle

getz wrote: »

i wonder what would happen if people in other countries refused to buy irish ,because cheap goods effects their jobs,ireland is in the EU and has been taking money from other EU taxpayers from day one,get over it

i have no problem with cheap goods from other countries, my problem is with large supermarket chains such as Tesco taking advantage of weak laws here that see them presenting goods as being irish - a prime example is the 'irish produce' sticker they put on the thousands of chicken breasts they import from Thailand and have packaged here, they do this with many goods trying to pass them off as being irish.

Victor

Jacobs may have rights here. There was a case a few years ago when a supermarket was selling designer clothes at a discount. The trademark / patent holder felt this was derogatory to their prodcut and won against the retailer.

Of course, I can but Jacobs Fig Rolls 200g + 100% free, i.e. 400g for €1 sometimes. Other times the 200g is more than €3.

getz

bamboozle wrote: »

i have no problem with cheap goods from other countries, my problem is with large supermarket chains such as Tesco taking advantage of weak laws here that see them presenting goods as being irish - a prime example is the 'irish produce' sticker they put on the thousands of chicken breasts they import from Thailand and have packaged here, they do this with many goods trying to pass them off as being irish.

i think that is because they may have been packaged in ireland,all supermarkets do this kind of thing,look a little closer,all within the law,buy your stuff from aldi,whops thats no good either

AARRRGH

Is this the same reason we have Mighty Munch and Monster Munch here?

Samson

Onkle wrote: »

They are still producing in Ireland.

What are they still producing in Ireland?
And in which plant?

westtip

If I recall Coke had an issue like this in japan back in the 1980s where the wholesale supply chain had about 7 different levels taking a bite from the cherry with all goods - hence the very expensive cost of retail goods. some retailers foudn it cheaper to bring a 40 foot container of coke in from US West coast than buy Coke through the domestic supply chain. Coke Japan tried to fight it and i think they lost.

All the manufacturer Jacobs is doing is once again highlighting the way irish consumers are ripped off at every level - by retailers taking much higher margins than they do the in the UK by manufacturers trying the same and of course the biggest whores of the lot in Leinster house.

It all adds up to RIP OFF IRELAND.

Diarmuid

getz wrote: »

i wonder what would happen if people in other countries refused to buy irish ,because cheap goods effects their jobs,t

we would be absolutely and totally fcuked. We currently import €57bn but export €86bn. How would all our "patriotic" Irish around here like €30bn to disappear from the Irish economy next year?

Phoenix3

Samson wrote: »

What are they still producing in Ireland?
And in which plant?

+1

leeroybrown

Indeed. If memory servers me correctly Jacobs closed their main Irish production facilities earlier this year.

Edit: Here's a link. It appears that they do still do some limited premium biscuit manufacturing here but the bulk of their Irish operation has ceased with the loss of approximately two thirds of their original staff level.

Victor

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1127/1224259547520.html

"RGDATA members say that by sourcing from the UK, they are able to sell many well-known biscuits at prices lower than the list price charged in the Republic."

Ahem. List price?

meathstevie

And does anyone honestly think no other supermarket chains pull the same tricks as Tesco ?

What's next ? A car manufacturer taking an independent dealer to court for buying stock in the UK and registering the cars in Ireland ?

Is Jacobs/Fruitfield in essence saying that they have the prices in the Irish market artificially inflated since the same product can be bought wholesale in the UK for significantly less ?

Victor

meathstevie wrote: »

Is Jacobs/Fruitfield in essence saying that they have the prices in the Irish market artificially inflated since the same product can be bought wholesale in the UK for significantly less ?

Their cost base may not be the same as McVities.

meathstevie

Agree with you to an extent Victor but probably not in as much as to explain the differences.

Taxipete29

AARRRGH wrote: »

Is this the same reason we have Mighty Munch and Monster Munch here?

Tayto had a licence to use the name Monster Munch over here. When Walkers entered the Irish market they withdrew the licence forcing Tayto to switch to Mighty Munch.

Count Dooku

Diarmuid wrote: »

Considering Ireland exports a lot more than it imports, we can be thankful that our foreign trade partners don't have the same attitude as you. Otherwise say goodbye to a lot more Irish jobs.

If you will take into account that most of export belong to MNC’s and they are taking back a lot of money (difference between GDP and GNP), then you see that there is not so much surplus

eddiehobbs

schween wrote: »

The biscuit manufacturer Jacobs is to take unnamed Irish retailers to court in order to stop them from importing their products from cheaper UK rivals.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1126/jacob.html

Apparently McVities in the UK owns the rights to manufacture and distribute the likes of Fig Rolls in the UK but Irish retailers are bypassing Jacobs in Ireland and importing them from McVities at lower prices.

The woman from RGDATA does have a point about the free flow of goods within the EU. I presume Tesco is one of the main offenders, but it does say a number of Irish retailers.

Can they stop them? It says they stopped a Donegal retailer from doing the same thing. Now they are taking on the larger chains I presume.

I hope jacobs win this if only for the sake of Irish jobs. Although i reckon the damage has probably already been done with the closure earlier this year

With regards to them bieng cheaper to import id imagine wages bieng a big part of that, €8.65 min here, £5.80 in the uk. Its no coincidence that the start of the influx of foriegn uk product coincided with the collapse in sterling

ConsiderThis

eddiehobbs wrote: »

I hope jacobs win this if only for the sake of Irish jobs. Although i reckon the damage has probably already been done with the closure earlier this year

With regards to them bieng cheaper to import id imagine wages bieng a big part of that, €8.65 min here, £5.80 in the uk. Its no coincidence that the start of the influx of foriegn uk product coincided with the collapse in sterling

For the sake of irish jobs? I thought the Jacobs factory in Tallaght either had closed or was about to close?

I am sure you are right that our minimum wage, which is nearly 25% higher than in the UK, probably paid a part in the demise of many factories and businesses here, Jacobs was additionally a byword for restrictive practices and inflexibility amongst the staff.

tallaghtfornia

I am sure you are right that our minimum wage, which is nearly 25% higher than in the UK, probably paid a part in the demise of many factories and businesses here, Jacobs, was additionally a byword for restrictive practices and inflexibility amongst the staff.

Jacobs like many other ‘Irish’ food companies have outsourced there manufacturing to cheaper European countries (Understood they are a business and have to make money) what annoys me is they never pass the savings on to the consumer.

What are they still producing in Ireland?
And in which plant?

They produce premium jams and some sauces in Drogheda under the name the ‘Real Irish food company’. They also use a company in Ashbourne called ‘Irish Cone and wafer’ to manufacture there ice cream wafers. As far as I know that’s the only manufacturing they have left in ROI. The rest of there products are located outside Ireland including Chef Sauce and Fruitfeild jam (even though they don't state were any of there products are made on there packaging).

The loss of even more jobs. I'd happily pay a few cents more for my fig rolls if it means saving Irish jobs

Jacobs Fig Rolls are now manufactured in France

Victor

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

even though they don't state were any of there products are made on there packaging

All food will either have country of origin if made outside the EU or and EU code with the two- or three-letter country code and a manufacturer number.

nesf

bamboozle wrote: »

i have no problem with cheap goods from other countries, my problem is with large supermarket chains such as Tesco taking advantage of weak laws here that see them presenting goods as being irish - a prime example is the 'irish produce' sticker they put on the thousands of chicken breasts they import from Thailand and have packaged here, they do this with many goods trying to pass them off as being irish.

Your ire should be directed at our laws not retailers! The focus should be on politicians to change this rather than the retailers who are acting legally.

tallaghtfornia

All food will either have country of origin if made outside the EU or and EU code with the two- or three-letter country code and a manufacturer number.

Only if its a dairy product or frozen

Example: Lyons Tea bags are packaged in Manchester by Unilever (The same factory as PG Tips) but on the packaging it only states there office in City west, there is no compulsory requirement for an EU manufacturer to state were the product is made on the label.