Eat the Rich

bakkiesbotha

Of all the pantomime villains in Irish society, from the bankers, to the government, to the public sector, we seem to reserve a special dose of hatred for the people who earn a fair bit above the national average (let's say 75-100k) and who live a lifestyle that costs a fair bit above the national average. Their house, their car, their clothes, their food, their leisure activities, their holidays, everything they buy costs a fair bit more than the average person spends on their equivalents, and we see all of these as wasteful extravagances that they have no real right to.

There is nothing that makes us angrier than hearing one of these people say that that they don't feel particularly well off and don't have any spare cash. After all, we can do without all of the things they spend their money on, so why shouldn't they be able to? If they are struggling with a large mortgage, then we can condemn them for being financially reckless. They should have bought a house next door to us and been happy with it. If they have kids in a private school, then they should take them out and send them to the local Christian Brothers school alongside our kids. And so on and so on and good enough for them.

But is this a valid position? Why should one person's lifestyle be considered unworthy and another's be considered sacred?

As badly off as we might think we are, nobody in this country is unavoidably dying of hunger, or exposure, or deprivation, and non-essentials have become intrinsic parts of everybody's lives. So if we're going to talk about taking what we consider to be non-essentials from those who are better off than us, then we should also be looking at doing without our own package holidays, and christmas lights, and nights out, and sky subscriptions, and takeaway meals, and drink, and cigarettes, and ipods, and Xboxes, and flatscreen TVs, and dvds, and votes for the x-factor, and replica jerseys, and all the rest of it.

Unless it's just a case of jealousy and begrudgery, but that's hardly it, is it?

cavedave

A poor farmer whose livestock is a single dairy cow goes to the field one morning to milk the cow and discovers that she's dead. He falls to his knees and looks skyward, shaking his fists and cursing God for his misfortune. Suddenly a voice is heard from the heavens: "Your cries have reached me, my son. Tell me what you would like me to do." The farmer gazes upward and says to God, "Please, Lord, kill my neighbor's cow."

SLUSK

I don't hate rich people at all but I can't stand people who are financially reckless and lose it all. I've heard of people with over €100K a year and when they lost their jobs they couldn't continue to service their mortgage etc. These kind of people deserve ZERO respect.

These people have fancy jobs and fancy degrees yet they fail to grasp simple aritmetics...

bakkiesbotha

SLUSK wrote: »

I don't hate rich people at all but I can't stand people who are financially reckless and lose it all. I've heard of people with over €100K a year and when they lost their jobs they couldn't continue to service their mortgage etc. These kind of people deserve ZERO respect.

These people have fancy jobs and fancy degrees yet they fail to grasp simple aritmetics...

Some people hate blacks,
Others hate gays!
But you hate people who are financially reckless.

It could be a Bob Roberts song

Do you hate all types of financial recklessness? I know a guy who is constantly losing his wallet and getting new laser and credit cards. He can never keep track of which card is which and which pin number is which and is always cancelling the wrong card, or getting them swallowed by the machines. Do you hate him?

Rebel021

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Do you hate all types of financial recklessness? I know a guy who is constantly losing his wallet and getting new laser and credit cards. He can never keep track of which card is which and which pin number is which and is always cancelling the wrong card, or getting them swallowed by the machines. Do you hate him?

Yes he's a prick

Scofflaw

This is heading AH-wards fairly quickly...

moderately,
Scofflaw

Fentdog84

If a person earns so much money, they are entitled to do what they like with it but its people like politicians & highly paid public servants who worry me. They just bleed the state with their unjust salaries and yet they preach about cutbacks for the more vunerable members of society. Its sickening.

Dannyboy83

I don't discriminate to be honest.

I hate everyone in equal proportion.

seclachi

Nothing wrong with being rich, maybe you were skilled, maybe you were lucky. The only thing that annoys me is the sense entitlement and a complete lack of sense some high earners have. Wasnt there some wife giving out on a radio show one day about her husband earning 100k and not being able to get by ?

Pete4779

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Of all the pantomime villains in Irish society, from the bankers, to the government, to the public sector, we seem to reserve a special dose of hatred for the people who earn a fair bit above the national average (let's say 75-100k) and who live a lifestyle that costs a fair bit above the national average.

Unless it's just a case of jealousy and begrudgery, but that's hardly it, is it?

The make more because of a multitude of reasons. However, that group between €75-100k is paying around 50%+ in taxes, and almost 60% at the higher rates with all levies if in public sector.

No need for petty attitudes seeing as they are paying for the faciulties and services for themselves, AND 2-3 other families who earn less an pay little or now tax.

Fentdog84

seclachi wrote: »

Nothing wrong with being rich, maybe you were skilled, maybe you were lucky. The only thing that annoys me is the sense entitlement and a complete lack of sense some high earners have. Wasnt there some wife giving out on a radio show one day about her husband earning 100k and not being able to get by ?

Dats ''some'' women for u. If their husband was the devil but if he was still putting petrol into the BMW she'll defend him til the end..:rolleyes:

MaceFace

The only thing people I hate are those that think they are entitled to what they earn.

They can be on 20k or 200k - if you don't like it, leave.

Absurdum

cannibalism can never be justified

'cept maybe if yer plane crashes in the Andes

seamus

It's Irish begrudgery.

It all goes back to the occupation by the British - the idea that if we're not succeeding, then it's because someone is holding us back or otherwise preventing us from reaching our potential because we're downtrodden.

So if someone else is doing well, they've must have done well at our expense. It's basic jealousy and it's an Irish problem, though it's reduced a lot since the celtic tiger showed us that we can all do well if we put in a bit of hard graft.

There was a time when you'd be afraid to tell your mates you got a raise or you got a new job, lest they abandon you for being a smug prick. Now at least we celebrate the triumphs of our friends and family, though we still harbour some resentment for successful people, assuming that they're all pricks who sleep on beds of money and take 20 foreign holidays a year.

We need to get over our inferiority complex.

Absurdum

seamus wrote: »

We need to get over our inferiority complex.

qft

InReality

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Of all the pantomime villains in Irish society, from the bankers, to the government, to the public sector, we seem to reserve a special dose of hatred for the people who earn a fair bit above the national average (let's say 75-100k) and who live a lifestyle that costs a fair bit above the national average. Their house, their car, their clothes, their food, their leisure activities, their holidays, everything they buy costs a fair bit more than the average person spends on their equivalents, and we see all of these as wasteful extravagances that they have no real right to.

There is nothing that makes us angrier than hearing one of these people say that that they don't feel particularly well off and don't have any spare cash. After all, we can do without all of the things they spend their money on, so why shouldn't they be able to? If they are struggling with a large mortgage, then we can condemn them for being financially reckless. They should have bought a house next door to us and been happy with it. If they have kids in a private school, then they should take them out and send them to the local Christian Brothers school alongside our kids. And so on and so on and good enough for them.

But is this a valid position? Why should one person's lifestyle be considered unworthy and another's be considered sacred?

As badly off as we might think we are, nobody in this country is unavoidably dying of hunger, or exposure, or deprivation, and non-essentials have become intrinsic parts of everybody's lives. So if we're going to talk about taking what we consider to be non-essentials from those who are better off than us, then we should also be looking at doing without our own package holidays, and christmas lights, and nights out, and sky subscriptions, and takeaway meals, and drink, and cigarettes, and ipods, and Xboxes, and flatscreen TVs, and dvds, and votes for the x-factor, and replica jerseys, and all the rest of it.

Unless it's just a case of jealousy and begrudgery, but that's hardly it, is it?

I don't care what people in the 75k+ bracket spend their money on.
But if someone in that group complains that they don't have enough money for something, then surely its reasonable to look at what they are spending money on ?
I don't exactly get your point here.

If your saying that we simply begrudge "rich" people I don't think thats enough.

One of the first phrases kids come up with is "its not fair". Fairness is pretty important to us as adults too, its why we are outraged when there is for example a miscarraige of justice.
So is it "fair" that someone earn 75k+ a year ? Well there are loads of ways of looking at that. Does the work equate to twice as much as as someone on half that ?
Was there a level playing field to get such a job ? What do they actually do all day ? What would that person be paid in another country ?
Do people on that much pay a "fair" rate of tax ?

I think over that last few years people are questioning this more and more as their own income goes down , and the justifications the pay of people at the very top of the pyramid ( investment bankers in the states etc ) , becomes less solid or obvious than before.

Also there is the fact that money does not just provide for frivolities of life. You have a much better chance of living longer if your rich. You can afford legal help which is often a crucial aspect of a persons life at some point of another.

Of course there are other considerations beside fairness in how a society organises itself.
The ability of people to be rewarded for effort and to feel rewarded for effort.

But I think overall the balance in most societies is always biased towards the rich simply because they are rich.
So the risk of the reward side of the balance getting neglected is much much less that the fairness side.

So in conclusion I don't think its our "historical" begrudery thats at play these days , its a sense of anger and frustration that the rules are no longer being abided by the well off.

starbelgrade

InReality wrote: »

So is it "fair" that someone earn 75k+ a year ?

In an open market, if someone is willing to pay the cost / wage bill, then yes. In a closed banking / government / public sector market? Very questionable indeed.

OnTheBalls

seamus wrote: »

....... assuming that they're all pricks who sleep on beds of money and take 20 foreign holidays a year.

I know somebody on the dole who has been away 13 times this year.

Daragh101

imho if people work hard and make lots of money then fair play to them. its tipical irish to try and blame these people in bad times......just get over it, its no one elses fault but yourselfs that you bought into the boom and lost.

segaBOY

seamus wrote: »

It's Irish begrudgery.

It all goes back to the occupation by the British - the idea that if we're not succeeding, then it's because someone is holding us back or otherwise preventing us from reaching our potential because we're downtrodden.

So if someone else is doing well, they've must have done well at our expense. It's basic jealousy and it's an Irish problem, though it's reduced a lot since the celtic tiger showed us that we can all do well if we put in a bit of hard graft.

There was a time when you'd be afraid to tell your mates you got a raise or you got a new job, lest they abandon you for being a smug prick. Now at least we celebrate the triumphs of our friends and family, though we still harbour some resentment for successful people, assuming that they're all pricks who sleep on beds of money and take 20 foreign holidays a year.

We need to get over our inferiority complex.

Not from what I've seen. But I fully agree with the rest of your post.

Dob74

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Of all the pantomime villains in Irish society, from the bankers, to the government, to the public sector, we seem to reserve a special dose of hatred for the people who earn a fair bit above the national average (let's say 75-100k) and who live a lifestyle that costs a fair bit above the national average. Their house, their car, their clothes, their food, their leisure activities, their holidays, everything they buy costs a fair bit more than the average person spends on their equivalents, and we see all of these as wasteful extravagances that they have no real right to.

There is nothing that makes us angrier than hearing one of these people say that that they don't feel particularly well off and don't have any spare cash. After all, we can do without all of the things they spend their money on, so why shouldn't they be able to? If they are struggling with a large mortgage, then we can condemn them for being financially reckless. They should have bought a house next door to us and been happy with it. If they have kids in a private school, then they should take them out and send them to the local Christian Brothers school alongside our kids. And so on and so on and good enough for them.

But is this a valid position? Why should one person's lifestyle be considered unworthy and another's be considered sacred?

As badly off as we might think we are, nobody in this country is unavoidably dying of hunger, or exposure, or deprivation, and non-essentials have become intrinsic parts of everybody's lives. So if we're going to talk about taking what we consider to be non-essentials from those who are better off than us, then we should also be looking at doing without our own package holidays, and christmas lights, and nights out, and sky subscriptions, and takeaway meals, and drink, and cigarettes, and ipods, and Xboxes, and flatscreen TVs, and dvds, and votes for the x-factor, and replica jerseys, and all the rest of it.

Unless it's just a case of jealousy and begrudgery, but that's hardly it, is it?

Most jealously and begrudgery seems to be aimed at the public service.
The indo and the times appear determined to make sure low paid workers and people on socail welfare get in the neck in the next budget.

I dont want my taxes going to people who send there kids to fee paying schools. Why should taxpayers support schools who exclude a large proportion of society. If you dont want to send your child to a state school fine, but pay the whole cost yourself.

InReality

Fairness is more than the market rate.

Idbatterim

what is the problem with brining everyone who works into the tax net! currently 50% of workers pay no tax! so dont go banging on about fairness, when the people gettin screwed the most at the moment are the middle and high earners! and at the same time cut the dole by 10%. Even if they only paid 10% surely it wouldnt make that much of a difference to the individual, but collectively the difference would be huge!

egan007

I blew €750'000 on a hat last month. Totally worth it.