Questions from a Retailer

newman10

If I am in the wrong forum please move.

I am a Retailer and proud to be. I did enjoy my job meeting people,the day to day interaction but that is now all changing. I now employ 1 full timer and 2 part timers (1 too many) but this time last year I employed 2 full timers and 3 part timers so it is very easy to see the change in my business.

Every time I log onto Boards I get the impression that many of you thaink that Retailers are there to Rip You Off. So I have some quetions to ask of you .

Do you work for the Commercial Landlord or are you a member of the Landlords family who is still refusing to reduce the rent.

Did any member of your family work as Tradespeople which helped inflate the cost of Houses and Commercial Property.

Are you the IT consultant who charged €500 plus travel to fix a piece of software that could have been done over the phone.

Did you work in the Medical Facility that took €30-€50 off an OAP even though they had Medical Cards

Do you wokr in a Local Authority which has put up Commercial Rates/Water/Refuse but the quality of servives has not improved.

Do you work with the Auctioneer who charged people stupid fees for selling houses.

Do you work in the Financial Institution whic has increased the commercial rates which it charges its "customers"

This list is endless so please before you call Retailers RIp Offs, have a good look at what part you played in making my cost base so high that no matters what happens one member of staff has to join the Dole Que.

As an Irish Retailer I would like to point out that the price differences in Argos/Next/PC World etc is not RIP OFF IRELAND but RIP OFF UK

nesf

For our cost base to come down, wages and prices need to come down and unfortunately prices tend to have to come down before wages. It's going to be ugly in the retail sector, and industry in general over the next two or three years but it's unfortunately necessary. There's no nice way to put that I'm afraid.

newman10

nesf wrote: »

For our cost base to come down, wages and prices need to come down and unfortunately prices tend to have to come down before wages. It's going to be ugly in the retail sector, and industry in general over the next two or three years but it's unfortunately necessary. There's no nice way to put that I'm afraid.

I agree but the essence of my thinking is that the very people who are calling us Rip Offs have contributed greatly to our high cost bases and will not acknowledge that fact

nesf

newman10 wrote: »

I agree but the essence of my thinking is that the very people who are calling us Rip Offs have contributed greatly to our high cost bases and will not acknowledge that fact

Of course they won't. They probably couldn't be convinced it's any of their fault actually.

MaceFace

newman10 wrote: »

I agree but the essence of my thinking is that the very people who are calling us Rip Offs have contributed greatly to our high cost bases and will not acknowledge that fact

Rip Off Ireland is so 2008 - we have moved on to demonise the public sector :pac:

Actually, I would love to understand this a bit more and I am sure people would appreciate if you could explain a bit about how much it costs to do business in Ireland.
Rent, rates, wages, raw material costs etc.

Last year I heard a story on the radio of some retailer who tried to source his 7up from the North as it was much cheper. The supplier in the North was told by their supplier (not sure who) that unless they stopped supplying the shop in the South they would be cut off.

sunnyside

When shopping nobody considers any of the above. Price is about the only thing we care about. If someone else can sell it cheaper we will buy it from them. There is no inconvenience at all to me the consumer to purchase from a UK shop or website instead. When I do that it's not because I'm trying to put you out of business. Again I'm not thinking of you, I'm thinking of my own very limited budget and getting the best value I can for it. So for that reason I have to buy where it's cheaper.

I'm certainly not saying this is right but it's an honest reason.

Fratton Fred

newman10 wrote: »

If I am in the wrong forum please move.

I am a Retailer and proud to be. I did enjoy my job meeting people,the day to day interaction but that is now all changing. I now employ 1 full timer and 2 part timers (1 too many) but this time last year I employed 2 full timers and 3 part timers so it is very easy to see the change in my business.

Every time I log onto Boards I get the impression that many of you thaink that Retailers are there to Rip You Off. So I have some quetions to ask of you .

Do you work for the Commercial Landlord or are you a member of the Landlords family who is still refusing to reduce the rent.

Did any member of your family work as Tradespeople which helped inflate the cost of Houses and Commercial Property.

Are you the IT consultant who charged €500 plus travel to fix a piece of software that could have been done over the phone.

Did you work in the Medical Facility that took €30-€50 off an OAP even though they had Medical Cards

Do you wokr in a Local Authority which has put up Commercial Rates/Water/Refuse but the quality of servives has not improved.

Do you work with the Auctioneer who charged people stupid fees for selling houses.

Do you work in the Financial Institution whic has increased the commercial rates which it charges its "customers"

This list is endless so please before you call Retailers RIp Offs, have a good look at what part you played in making my cost base so high that no matters what happens one member of staff has to join the Dole Que.

As an Irish Retailer I would like to point out that the price differences in Argos/Next/PC World etc is not RIP OFF IRELAND but RIP OFF UK

I sympathise with you. I looked at opening a shop a couple of years ago, but the rents for property were disgusting and the landlords were offering nothing in return, no advertising, no help with fit out, nothing.

On a mark up of 2.1, I would have had to shift an incredible amount of clothing just to pay the rent and rates, so it was a non starter. One of the landlords i contacted has about 25% of the properties in the mall empty and when i mentioned this to him, he replied that it was not his fault if people couldn't afford the rent...err, yes it is, that is why you are losing tennants.

Madness.

nesf

Fratton Fred wrote: »

One of the landlords i contacted has about 25% of the properties in the mall empty and when i mentioned this to him, he replied that it was not his fault if people couldn't afford the rent...err, yes it is, that is why you are losing tennants.

Don't worry you'll get to watch him eat his words in not so long. Commercial rents are going to come down whether they like it or not.

Chardee MacDennis

newman10 wrote: »

Are you the IT consultant who charged €500 plus travel to fix a piece of software that could have been done over the phone.

completely not trolling here but, if you're such an expert why didnt you fix it?

and since it is easy to fix over the phone why wouldnt you get someone else that is willing to work over the phone?

i work in IT and it gets my goat when people think they know how much something should cost or how easy it is to do. 90% of the public dont have a clue...

MysticalRain

Tell us how much you are currently earning for yourself and your family, and then we'll talk. It's a free market. It can work both ways. You knew that before you got into retailing.

nesf

Guys, please do not get personal and bug someone to disclose their personal finances. If they want to volunteer it, fine, if they don't then they are entitled to their privacy.

sunnyside

BastardPrince wrote: »

completely not trolling here but, if you're such an expert why didnt you fix it?

and since it is easy to fix over the phone why wouldnt you get someone else that is willing to work over the phone?

...

If OP felt that the job that needed doing was not worth €500 perhaps s/he should have taken a more prudent approach and not hired the guy/got a friend to fix it for free and bought them a pint for their help.

drunkmonkey

newman10 wrote: »

As an Irish Retailer I would like to point out that the price differences in Argos/Next/PC World etc is not RIP OFF IRELAND but RIP OFF UK

My store for example, tom tom 169 same tom tom in argos, 219 including 20% off.

Laptop bag in PC world 65 euro, indentical laptop bag, 29.99 (same make)

I think it's a myth that prices here are way over the top and all irish stores are a rip off, there's value to be had but the general public need to get out there an look for it rather than running off to newry.
How many people will buy there presents from argos rather than than their local stores as the UK retailers here are precieved to have better value when they don't, there simply playing on the fact that the media has convinced the general public that Ireland is a rip off and your better spending your money some where else.

newman10

I think that some of you are missing my point. Everyone has played a part is making us an expensive place to do business but to continue calling retailers Rip Offs in light of collective responsibility is a load of horses**t

MaceFace

drunkmonkey wrote: »

My store for example, tom tom 169 same tom tom in argos, 219 including 20% off.

Laptop bag in PC world 65 euro, indentical laptop bag, 29.99 (same make)

I think it's a myth that prices here are way over the top and all irish stores are a rip off, there's value to be had but the general public need to get out there an look for it rather than running off to newry.
How many people will buy there presents from argos rather than than their local stores as the UK retailers here are precieved to have better value when they don't, there simply playing on the fact that the media has convinced the general public that Ireland is a rip off and your better spending your money some where else.

Of course there will be instances of individual items being cheaper but I don't think it would be fair to say that Irish prices are on par with those in the UK.
There are massive differences and what I would be interested in hearing about is the reasons why these differences are there.

I think that if people understood the reasons behind the price differencials, they would be more outspoken about doing something about it.

drunkmonkey

MaceFace wrote: »

Of course there will be instances of individual items being cheaper but I don't think it would be fair to say that Irish prices are on par with those in the UK.
There are massive differences and what I would be interested in hearing about is the reasons why these differences are there.

I think that if people understood the reasons behind the price differencials, they would be more outspoken about doing something about it.

Agree Vat and minimum wage are 2 areas straight away that could be reformed to bring us more in line with the UK. (Could shave 10% off the RRP)

The abolition of NAMA which from what I can see is keeping insolvent companies in business and keeping property artifically high.

Retail rents, are the straight out of a disney story book, i'm looking at a couple of propertys but the rent has not budged in 9mts, yet these premises are vacant, what kind of a landlord can afford to leave a property idle, none. The banks are obvioulsy keeping them afloat. The property in the real word is now only worth about 400k but the landlord paid over 1 million in 2007 and is demanding rent relative to his purchase price. This is probably the same country wide.

Look whatever way this recession turns out, I know it will be good for some business in the long run. Ben Dunne said it well, Loose your margin but don't loose your business.
This recession will finish, propery will become investiable again especially for retailers but the government needs to stop the outward flow of cash as a priority.

I'd like to see a tax on all roads to northern ireland, €50 each way for non northern residents.

down with that

BastardPrince wrote: »

completely not trolling here but, if you're such an expert why didnt you fix it?

and since it is easy to fix over the phone why wouldnt you get someone else that is willing to work over the phone?

i work in IT and it gets my goat when people think they know how much something should cost or how easy it is to do. 90% of the public dont have a clue...

which is exactly the reason why it is so easy to overcharge us numbnuts who are not experts in IT.


Listen almost every sector in ireland over the past ten years or so have been involved in ripping off customers. Inflating the cost of doing business in this country during the boom years. This is the point the poster was making. Its come to a stage now where this is no longer sustainable the country needs to take a serious look at itself and drive costs back down to competitive levels. Otherwise this country will go further down the swanny

newman10

newman10 wrote: »

Every time I log onto Boards I get the impression that many of you thaink that Retailers are there to Rip You Off.

They do, but for many through no fault of their own, what with our stupid government, VAT rates here, taxes, stealth taxes, rates, rents, electricity etc...

I've worked in various retail businesses over the years and I can tell you that the cost of running some of these places was a joke, but I can also tell you that in some a lot of profiteering / rip-offs was going on too, such is life. Just look at what happened with the recent floods, on Monday on TV3 news the reporter was saying that last week in many shops and supermarkets bottled water that was €5 went up to €7, absolute disgrace.

Dannyboy83

newman10 wrote: »

I think that some of you are missing my point. Everyone has played a part is making us an expensive place to do business but to continue calling retailers Rip Offs in light of collective responsibility is a load of horses**t

I disagree.
I don't think everyone has played a part, I believe it was considerably less.
I'm not insinuating that YOU are a rip off merchant here.

But for the pyramid to work, you have to have people getting it in the neck at the bottom so the guy on top can get out.
The consumer has to be screwed or the pyramid collapses. (as we have been witnessing).

The retailer mightn't be on the absolute top, that may be the landlord, but the retailer is far higher up the pyramid than the consumer.

Take that guy ripping you off for the IT work. Maybe he is self employed, in which case he is higher up the chain?
Maybe he is an employee, in which case, hes might be getting it in the neck from the retailer and his own company too. So the top of the pyramid narrows somewhat, and the base widens somewhat.
Which coincidentally seems to mirror Fact #12 here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1125/1224259392546.html

You cannot single out retailers as the only offenders of course, but it seems like some type of weird preemptive revisionism to suggest it wasn't rampant up until last year.
There is a dedicated forum for it here after all:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=235

In fact, it reminds me of a point Arthur C. Clarke once made about people in the future asking "Did the Egyptian pyramids ever really exist?"
There is no question, still around for all to see, you need to wait a few years first.

Bandit12

I will buy the product at the price that's cheaper to me no matter where that product is.

Bandit12

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Agree Vat and minimum wage are 2 areas straight away that could be reformed to bring us more in line with the UK. (Could shave 10% off the RRP)

The abolition of NAMA which from what I can see is keeping insolvent companies in business and keeping property artifically high.

Retail rents, are the straight out of a disney story book, i'm looking at a couple of propertys but the rent has not budged in 9mts, yet these premises are vacant, what kind of a landlord can afford to leave a property idle, none. The banks are obvioulsy keeping them afloat. The property in the real word is now only worth about 400k but the landlord paid over 1 million in 2007 and is demanding rent relative to his purchase price. This is probably the same country wide.

Look whatever way this recession turns out, I know it will be good for some business in the long run. Ben Dunne said it well, Loose your margin but don't loose your business.
This recession will finish, propery will become investiable again especially for retailers but the government needs to stop the outward flow of cash as a priority.

I'd like to see a tax on all roads to northern ireland, €50 each way for non northern residents.

Discrimination much?

MaceFace

Bandit12 wrote: »

I will buy the product at the price that's cheaper to me no matter where that product is.

Then you were not living in Ireland.
Dublin city on a weekend was black with people only too happy to pay 5 quid for a beer and then get a taxi home.
It was simply unavoidable - we all had to pay exorborant prices at some times, and we were all happy to pay them at others.

Bandit12

MaceFace wrote: »

Then you were not living in Ireland.
Dublin city on a weekend was black with people only too happy to pay 5 quid for a beer and then get a taxi home.
It was simply unavoidable - we all had to pay exorborant prices at some times, and we were all happy to pay them at others.

Don't understand your post tbh. I live in Dublin and go up to the North once a forthnight for all my shopping needs. I don't drink in the pubs or use taxi's.

MaceFace

Bandit12 wrote: »

Don't understand your post tbh. I live in Dublin and go up to the North once a forthnight for all my shopping needs. I don't drink in the pubs or use taxi's.

Do you ever shop local (even to buy milk)? Do you own a house? car?
Buy a CD? DVD? XBox? Camera? Coffee? Biscuits? Sandwich? Go out for dinner? Stay in a hotel?

What my point is, is that it was/is impossible to live in this country and not have to overpay for something.

Nehaxak

MaceFace wrote: »

What my point is, is that it was/is impossible to live in this country and not have to overpay for something.

Yes but when savings can be made, people will make them, no matter where or how. Retail is the easiest choice for people to make savings in/from as we have a European open market, people have access to the internet and Newry isn't that far of a drive away.

While I understand the original posters points for the most part, I honestly couldn't care less. If I want to buy clothes these days I wouldn't even think about bothering to buy from Ireland as I can buy from the likes of mandmdirect and other places at massive savings, delivery in a couple days and usually free postage.

I as a customer, do not care about your overheads. I just want my items at the cheapest price. There is nothing I can do as a customer to change that and your customers have given up complaining and asking for cheaper prices so they've voted with their feet and walked off elsewhere to purchase their goods from the open market of the European Union.

If your business is failing due to excessive overheads and cost base then just close your business, take your money and invest in a warehouse in Eastern Europe to hold stock, employ local staff for a pittance of a wage, open an internet shop and sell your goods to the European market with very low overheads, high profits for you and cheaper goods for the public.

I honestly do not see why you would continue to suffer and remain in business in Ireland as a retailer, with such excessive overheads and high cost base, when there are other options open to you elsewhere in Europe which you can use to sell back directly to the small and generally insignificant Irish market if you could even be bothered once you've opened up the rest of the European market.

I also don't see why I as a customer should be somehow made to feel guilty for purchasing goods from Europe, when my own government and ALL of the opposition parties (bar SF) sung such high praises and lalala about Europe and the Lisbon Treaty, how it was great for Ireland, great for jobs, etc., etc.,

I'm happy that they did though as it made me finally lose all patiotism for Ireland and instead push the mindset of Europe upon me in a big way. Great to see I can make such massive savings by purchasing what I want from outside of Ireland. For sure it's to the detriment of the Irish retail sector but why should I care ? If stuff was as cheap in Kerry than it was in Dublin and on a par to elsewhere in Europe, then I'd go there to shop. Fact is though that it's not, so I need to drive (or websurf lolfag) a little further afield.

There is absolutely no point in businesses or government/oppossition parties telling the Irish public to shop Irish - you've already told us all about how great Europe is, so, we've just accepted your word and started shopping there, thanks very much.

Gurgle

newman10 wrote: »

Do you work for the Commercial Landlord or are you a member of the Landlords family who is still refusing to reduce the rent.

Have you looked at moving your premises to somewhere with lower rent?
Theres commercial premises all over the country going for a song now.
Have you discussed the possibility with your landlord?

newman10 wrote: »

Did any member of your family work as Tradespeople which helped inflate the cost of Houses and Commercial Property.

What inflated the costs were demand and credit.

newman10 wrote: »

This list is endless...

Yes, it is.
Times have changed, and now you're competing with NI and massively reduced sterling.
Is cutting jobs really the only way you can save money?
Go back to your suppliers, get them to reduce costs or find a cheaper supplier.
Look into moving premises, learn to do up your own accounts, switch phone / electricity provider.

Maybe you're not taking a massive mark-up on whatever products / services you offer - but you would be the exception. It seems to be typical Irishness to run a business with high mark-ups low sales, while everyone else in the world does it the other way round.

Cut your costs and your mark-ups, you will increase your sales and keep your business alive.

As an Irish Retailer I would like to point out that the price differences in Argos/Next/PC World etc is not RIP OFF IRELAND but RIP OFF UK

Why do you think Argos / Next / PC World etc made such a huge move in to Ireland over the last 15 years - they looked at the competition, the prices, the margins and said "We could take a slice of that pie".

You can either let it all go down the swanney while you blame everyone else, or go for all-out restructuring and cost reduction.

drunkmonkey

Everyone is saying were being ripped off, I think you have to look at the bigger picute,
for example let's say a pint costs €3.50 up North, the northern guy on minimum wage earn €6.40 an hour. He earns €51.20 for an 8hr day. He can have 14 pints after work and have enough for a bag of chips on the walk home.
Meanwhile he's cousin in Kildare is also on minimum wage but earns €8.65 and hour, He earns €62.90 for a days work. He can have 13 pints after work at €4.50 a pint and have enough for some chips but has to walk home as well.

The guy who makes less money can afford to have more pints than the guy who earns more. It dosen't make sense but then disaster strikes, both guys loose there jobs, now which cousin can afford more pints?

If we want a cushy enough society we have to pay for it, I think that's the point eveyone is missing, fine spend all your money up north but don't expect your perks to remain the same if your sending all your money out of the country. Expect to be penalised for all thoes cross border shoppers come budget time.

Tipp Man

Bandit12 wrote: »

I will buy the product at the price that's cheaper to me no matter where that product is.

I personally try to buy Irish products in Irish shops as much as possible

Gurgle

Tipp Man wrote: »

I personally try to buy Irish products in Irish shops as much as possible

If you're buying Irish products, they should not be more expensive in Ireland than NI. If they are, theres something seriously wrong.

I've seen a reduction close to 30% in my weekly shopping in the last 18 months. While this is good (obviously), I do feel like I've been had for 10 years before that.

southie

um no to all the above

K-9

Gurgle wrote: »

If you're buying Irish products, they should not be more expensive in Ireland than NI. If they are, theres something seriously wrong.

I've seen a reduction close to 30% in my weekly shopping in the last 18 months. While this is good (obviously), I do feel like I've been had for 10 years before that.

But our exports are dearer?

murphaph

Gurgle wrote: »

If you're buying Irish products, they should not be more expensive in Ireland than NI. If they are, theres something seriously wrong.

There is something seriously wrong-the cost of doing business is way too high in the south.

Item costs €1 from ROI factory gate in ROI.
Same item costs £0.90 from ROI factory gate in NI (as 90p buys 1 Euro!)
You buy it in ROI for €2 (retailer's rent/insurance/wages etc. costs (x) + his actual profit (z) = €1)
You buy it in NI for £1.50 (€1.35) (retailer's rent/insurance/wages etc. costs (y) + his actual profit (z) = £0.60 (€0.67))

So the northern retailer takes the same profit z, but has lower costs associated with running his business. The northern retailer can actually have a better lifestyle while charging less because his own profit goes much further in NI than his southern counterpart's! He can drive a merc-his southern counterpart a VW.

It's ALL about the cost of doing business which is undoubtedly HIGHER in the south. This is a fundamental problem which needs sorting for Ireland to ever get back to competitiveness!

Tipp Man

murphaph wrote: »

There is something seriously wrong-the cost of doing business is way too high in the south.

Item costs €1 from ROI factory gate in ROI.
Same item costs £0.90 from ROI factory gate in NI (as 90p buys 1 Euro!)
You buy it in ROI for €2 (retailer's rent/insurance/wages etc. costs (x) + his actual profit (z) = €1)
You buy it in NI for £1.50 (€1.35) (retailer's rent/insurance/wages etc. costs (y) + his actual profit (z) = £0.60 (€0.67))

So the northern retailer takes the same profit z, but has lower costs associated with running his business. The northern retailer can actually have a better lifestyle while charging less because his own profit goes much further in NI than his southern counterpart's! He can drive a merc-his southern counterpart a VW.

It's ALL about the cost of doing business which is undoubtedly HIGHER in the south. This is a fundamental problem which needs sorting for Ireland to ever get back to competitiveness!

Nail head bang

Jaysoose

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Everyone is saying were being ripped off, I think you have to look at the bigger picute,
for example let's say a pint costs €3.50 up North, the northern guy on minimum wage earn €6.40 an hour. He earns €51.20 for an 8hr day. He can have 14 pints after work and have enough for a bag of chips on the walk home.
Meanwhile he's cousin in Kildare is also on minimum wage but earns €8.65 and hour, He earns €62.90 for a days work. He can have 13 pints after work at €4.50 a pint and have enough for some chips but has to walk home as well.

The guy who makes less money can afford to have more pints than the guy who earns more. It dosen't make sense but then disaster strikes, both guys loose there jobs, now which cousin can afford more pints?

If we want a cushy enough society we have to pay for it, I think that's the point eveyone is missing, fine spend all your money up north but don't expect your perks to remain the same if your sending all your money out of the country. Expect to be penalised for all thoes cross border shoppers come budget time.

Its all well and good making up numbers to give some example of pints in relation to chips etc. Nobody forced the retailers to pay the massive rents, why are they not out on the streets demanding vaue for money on the business rates they pay? why are they not lobbying the goverment to reduce VAT? They have been hiking up the prices in direct relation to their costs to maintain profits at all costs and no thought was giving to the consumer at any stage.

Now the Op wants us to feel sorry for the poor retailers as they are struggling because people got sick of it and are quite rightly heading up north, sorry but im not buying it.

If the Publicans, Retailers, Car dealers etc etc had the common sense to look at the situation from a point of view other than their own and tried to understand that the consumer will only put up with paying over the odds for so long they may have been better positioned to abosorb the current downturn and survive.

Lets take the Vintners who in their wisdom looked for a Price Freeze during a recession and incredibly tried to dress it up as if they were doing it for the customers!!

The Car dealers are now looking for a scrappage scheme to save them after doing nothing for the consumer in regards to the Illegal tax that is VRT.

Im not for people going under or losing jobs but in all honesty coming crying to the consumer now and calling people shopping up north Un-patriotic is a joke....and not a very funny one.

murphaph

Jaysoose wrote: »

Its all well and good making up numbers to give some example of pints in relation to chips etc. Nobody forced the retailers to pay the massive rents, why are they not out on the streets demanding vaue for money on the business rates they pay?

I'm guessing because many of them are trying to keep their businesses afloat and can't afford to take days off work?

Jaysoose wrote: »

why are they not lobbying the goverment to reduce VAT?

Aren't they?

Jaysoose wrote: »

They have been hiking up the prices in direct relation to their costs to maintain profits at all costs and no thought was giving to the consumer at any stage.

A retailer who gives no thought to the consumer should have no customers. No?

Jaysoose wrote: »

The Car dealers are now looking for a scrappage scheme to save them after doing nothing for the consumer in regards to the Illegal tax that is VRT.

SIMI has always called for the scrapping of VRT. Why would you think any different??

By the way, I'm not for one second suggesting that no retailers etc. price gouged during the Celtic Pyramid (I love that expression) but the reality of the here and now is that many retailers can't reduce prices further due to the exorbitant costs in comparison to the north. Many are legally obliged to their landlords for long periods and face legal action if they attempt to renege on their leases. They are legally obliged to collect VAT at 21% (on almost everything!), to pay a higher minimum wage than the north, to pay higher energy costs and to pay higher rates bills.

These costs are inescapable for the retailer. The customer has a choice-they can indeed go north and I personally wouldn't condemn anyone for doing so as it may actually be what's needed to force our government to lower rates, VAT, minimum wage etc. etc. to come into line with Northern ireland. The retailer however has no choice on his cost base. He can't move his shop to Newry and keep his customers in Bantry.

MaceFace

Tipp Man wrote: »

Nail head bang

And in true style we end up back at the beginning with a question I posed ages ago.......

Why is Ireland so much more expensive.
VAT is 6% higher.
Minimum wage is 40% higher (?)
Rent is higher (how much)?
Insurance, Rates etc?

Is everything more expensive here or is there one thing that is causing most of the price differencial?

murphaph

MaceFace wrote: »

And in true style we end up back at the beginning with a question I posed ages ago.......

Why is Ireland so much more expensive.
VAT is 6% higher.
Minimum wage is 40% higher (?)
Rent is higher (how much)?
Insurance, Rates etc?

Is everything more expensive here or is there one thing that is causing most of the price differencial?

Everything is more expensive but I suppose it mostly goes back to the complete over valuation of property and the willingness or otherwise of a government to let those who bought in at the top of the market to suffer now.

In my cold calculating opinion we basically MUST let those people suffer. If the government was prepared to let those people suffer (ie, through high mortgage repayments relative to their new lower salaries) then we could move forward.

I am a property owner btw, I would expect to suffer too (to a lesser extent than someone with massive mortgage(s) but the nation needs someone to suffer as our standard of living is too high relative to what we do for the rest of the world!).

If the government allows wages to fall (through their own cuts in the PS and through a lowering of minimum wage for the private sector, combined with a lowering in social welfare payments) then we can again regain competitiveness with NI and the rest of Europe. We used to be very competitive about 20 years ago remember!

Jaysoose

murphaph wrote: »

I'm guessing because many of them are trying to keep their businesses afloat and can't afford to take days off work?

Seriously... thats the best you have? Rates being high are not a new thing

Aren't they?.....Typically irish response to a problem, bury your head in the sand until it goes tits up then look for reform, were have they been on this since lenihan admitted his mistake?


A retailer who gives no thought to the consumer should have no customers. No? your answering my point for me here...see the traffic going into newry


SIMI has always called for the scrapping of VRT. Why would you think any different?? They were looking for a Reduction in this article from 4 years ago not a scrapping of the scheme.

By the way, I'm not for one second suggesting that no retailers etc. price gouged during the Celtic Pyramid (I love that expression) but the reality of the here and now is that many retailers can't reduce prices further due to the exorbitant costs in comparison to the north. Many are legally obliged to their landlords for long periods and face legal action if they attempt to renege on their leases. They are legally obliged to collect VAT at 21% (on almost everything!), to pay a higher minimum wage than the north, to pay higher energy costs and to pay higher rates bills.

These costs are inescapable for the retailer. The customer has a choice-they can indeed go north and I personally wouldn't condemn anyone for doing so as it may actually be what's needed to force our government to lower rates, VAT, minimum wage etc. etc. to come into line with Northern ireland. The retailer however has no choice on his cost base. He can't move his shop to Newry and keep his customers in Bantry.

We agree on a lot of things the retailers need to put pressure on the Landlords, county councils and the goverment before anything will get done but as usual it has been left until the last possible moment and a lot of people have /will go under before the message sinks in.

sunnyside

MaceFace wrote: »

Do you ever shop local (even to buy milk)? Do you own a house? car?
Buy a CD? DVD? XBox? Camera? Coffee? Biscuits? Sandwich? Go out for dinner? Stay in a hotel?

What my point is, is that it was/is impossible to live in this country and not have to overpay for something.

Yes to most of the above, but not the items in bold. Those I would internet order.

Tipp Man wrote: »

I personally try to buy Irish products in Irish shops as much as possible

I buy Irish products in the supermarket because I prefer the taste of a lot of them to imported brands. I was in Lidl this morning to buy something from the weekly offers. I never go there much but had a look around while I was there, I didn't think the food was any cheaper than other supermarkets because of all the special offers on brand names every week.

drunkmonkey

Jaysoose wrote: »

We agree on a lot of things the retailers need to put pressure on the Landlords, county councils and the goverment before anything will get done .

The government needs to stop propping up the propery market, that will force the rents down. They would be down a lot by now if it wasn't the con that is nama delaying the inevetable.

K-9

murphaph wrote: »

If the government allows wages to fall (through their own cuts in the PS and through a lowering of minimum wage for the private sector, combined with a lowering in social welfare payments) then we can again regain competitiveness with NI and the rest of Europe. We used to be very competitive about 20 years ago remember!

Even in the mid 90's when the Punt was worth more than Sterling (as it would be now) exports still did ok. Main reason was our costs where still competitive and probably cheaper than the UK.

Now ESB, oil, Wages, Rents etc. have all sky rocketed. We aren't competitive anymore. Leases will come down like Rents, they simply have to. Wage costs in the Private Sector are starting to fall but needs to be done on that. Cutting costs is the only way to get out of this, both for our standard of living and exports.

murphaph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The government needs to stop propping up the propery market, that will force the rents down. They would be down a lot by now if it wasn't the con that is nama delaying the inevetable.

I'm not sure how NAMA is going to pan out but certainly if it has the effect of artificially keeping property prices higher than they would otherwise be then it is a bad thing.

I'm a small scale landlord, one private house (which used to be my home and is mortgaged) and some commercial property (inherited). I know I will be personally worse off if property prices and rents fall, but I can see the bigger picture-if the costs of business in Ireland don't fall in general then my tenants will have no customers and I will eventually have no tenants. No winners there.

We are uncompetitive as a nation ay all levels and we will have friction between the different areas of society as prices begin to fall. I have already lowered rents and expect to lower them further but I know there are plenty landlords out there who are mortgaged to the hilt and reducing rents will mean they can't afford their mortgage repayments. Eventually either their tenants will go out of business trying to pay the high rents and then the landlord will default or the landlord jumps first and cuts rent. It's a sh!tty dilemma for anyone to be in but something's got to give for the economy to restart.

Tipp Man

MaceFace wrote: »

And in true style we end up back at the beginning with a question I posed ages ago.......

Why is Ireland so much more expensive.
VAT is 6% higher.
Minimum wage is 40% higher (?)
Rent is higher (how much)?
Insurance, Rates etc?

Is everything more expensive here or is there one thing that is causing most of the price differencial?

You can add energy costs to that list as well (ESB are robbing us)

Can anyone thing of anything (absolutely anything) that is cheaper to a business in Ireland than across the border?? Petrol maybe, anything else??

KindOfIrish

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd like to see a tax on all roads to northern ireland, €50 each way for non northern residents.

I would pay 50 one way and never return here again:D

newman10

Jaysoose wrote: »

Now the Op wants us to feel sorry for the poor retailers as they are struggling because people got sick of it and are quite rightly heading up north, sorry but im not buying it.

I am not looking for you to feel sorry for me as a retailer because I have responded to this new situation.

All I am asking is what part did you play in making Ireland an extreemly expensive place to do business and before I am called Rip Off , what place did or do you still play in making us expensive

MysticalRain

For what it's worth, I was paid peanuts during the Celtic Tiger and lived within my means as best I could. So I certainly have no guilty conscience when it comes to shopping online or up the north. Not all of us got filthy rich ripping off other people during those years.

Taxipete29

newman10 wrote: »

I am not looking for you to feel sorry for me as a retailer because I have responded to this new situation.

All I am asking is what part did you play in making Ireland an extreemly expensive place to do business and before I am called Rip Off , what place did or do you still play in making us expensive

Its always been cheaper to shop up North since long before the Celtic Tiger pushed up the cost of doing business, so what was the excuse for the years that preceeded the boom for prices being too high???

drunkmonkey

:Dlol @ the taxi driver, he had no part in the whole mess either..

Taxipete29

drunkmonkey wrote: »

:Dlol @ the taxi driver, he had no part in the whole mess either..

I charged the price the regulator set and that everyone was prepared to pay. When business started to drop I alligned myself with a firm offering discounts hence now part of the solution.

bridgitt

newman10 wrote: »

All I am asking is what part did you play in making Ireland an extreemly expensive place to do business and before I am called Rip Off , what place did or do you still play in making us expensive

People here will not admit they play a part in making us expensive. They will say they were paid peanuts during the Celtic Tiger, they will say they are being paid peanuts now ....see the three people on Prime Time the other night....one young single public servant on 55,000 euro a year was whinging about her pay and how she will not take a cut. She is on just slightly more than the average Irish public sector wage but that wage is enough to pay almost four retail workers in N. Ireland / UK, which is a G7 economy.

mrgaa1

when you look through all the posts you see a trend: cut wages, cut VAT, cut rents, cut cut cut. The issue is that repayments e.g. car loan, mortgage payments, etc... are staying the same.

So although we recognise that business costs must come down to remain competitive but when the employees wages are cut so far that repayments can't be made then a lot of people will be out of homes, lose their cars etc...

Whats the solution then? A solution to the above would solve a lot of problems. This country is at a pivotal point - do we pay more and tax more or pay less and tax less.