The Economy - Those WITH jobs making most noise? Why?

Upsider

Why are the unemployed so quiet? Even on the talk shows? Why is it (a sociological question as opposed to a rant) that it is those WITH jobs rather than those without them, who are making most noise about our economic state?

Nate--IRL--

Because it is not those with jobs making the most noise. It is organisations with vested interests in appearing to be "doing something" for the people they purport to represent, spinning their own agenda.

What organisation gives **** about the unemployed? They are profitable to nobody.

Nate

Upsider

but i am intrigued why , given the level of unemployment, why people have stayed so quiet?

erictheviking

Upsider wrote: »

but i am intrigued why , given the level of unemployment, why people have stayed so quiet?

The unemployed get a good deal here compared to other countries. Maybe thats why there not giving out!

Upsider

....that might last for a while - but what if you had a good income; have a large mortgage and have suffered a huge drop?

Nate--IRL--

Apathy.

There is no mechanism to focus the sea of anger into action. Nothing short of a 2nd Republic will actually change anything in Ireland, so most people won't bother.

Give it another Budget or 2, when reality begins to kick Ireland square in the nuts, and you might see something then. But it will be unfocused and impotent.

Nate

Upsider

... or is it dog eat dog?

hinault

Upsider wrote: »

but i am intrigued why , given the level of unemployment, why people have stayed so quiet?

..........because the Irish public is servile and subservient.
By that I mean people will tolerate situations and lie back and accept things without questioning.

This is what has led us to this situation.

There would be blue murder in any other nation if unemployment levels were at 14%.

Nate--IRL--

Upsider wrote: »

do you think anyone gives a sh*t about the unemployed... or is it dog eat dog?

Don't understand the question, sorry.

I'm not saying nobody gives a ****. It's just that it doesn't serve any organisations vested interests (except the unemployed) to incite the unemployed to start marching on the dail. Once that happens it becomes uncontrollable. Lip service is paid the the plight of the unemployed, but none of the established political groupings would try to channel that anger.

Bit like kicking a live bomb, it could end up blowing up in their face.

Nate

Upsider

I meant, do you think everyone else is so concentrated on holding on to their job to take any notice for the unemployed?

Sleepy

As an unemployed person: because I'd rather spend my time trying to get a new job (job-hunting and up-skilling) than ringing Joe Duffy. Somehow I think it'll do me more good.

Nate--IRL--

Upsider wrote: »

I meant, do you think everyone else is so concentrated on holding on to their job to take any notice for the unemployed?

I'm not sure what you expect these people to do. You correctly point out that many are currently in fear of their job, believe me, they notice the unemployed. How can they do anything about it, bar cling on to their own jobs by their fingernails?

Nate

Peanut

erictheviking wrote: »

The unemployed get a good deal here compared to other countries. Maybe thats why there not giving out!

Give it 6 weeks...

BornToKill

It's not quite true that no-one is interested. Eight council seats and 43% of first preference votes to Seamus Healy's WUAG.

Seth Brundle

Peanut wrote: »

Give it 6 weeks...

What's in 6 weeks?

Peanut

kbannon wrote: »

What's in 6 weeks?

I could be entirely wrong here, but I'm assuming that we'll see some of the effects of Budget 2010 within Jan of next year (or at least they will be 'pending').

Everyone knows that this will have to include a major social welfare cut, but up until now it's been sort of academic.

I wouldn't expect that situation to remain the same once the cuts are enforced. Using a (reduced) welfare to fund mortgage repayments at boom prices is unsustainable. I think the Government will have to seriously consider some sort of mortgage relief package for individuals - not necessarily a bailout, but some breathing space for those worse affected (Government carries some culpability for lax regulation etc., so should take the lead in improving the situation).

Upsider

do u think people with jobs care much for those without jobs is my quetion i guess?

Upsider

Upsider wrote: »

do u think people with jobs care much for those without jobs is my quetion i guess?

I don't think anyone cares about anyone else, to be honest.


Everyone wants to take care of their own (and rightfully so). In my opinion, I don't think anyone cares what gets done to the girl next door or the guy down the street, so long as things are OK for number one.


This is one of the reasons why i was ranting away in the "Halve dole for under 24s" thread. I feel that if, during the budget, it seems like they're attacking any particular group (such as 20-24 year olds) then there'll be uproar, but an even percentage across the board taken off everything (Welfare, min. wage, public sector stuff, etc. etc.) then everyone is still in the exact same boat as they're currently in, but a little less off (which won't last long because prices will eventually have to fall in line).


I mention this because welfare is there. It exists, whether you love it or hate it. People rely on it and whether you think it's immoral or not, people are used to it and expect it to be there to cushion the blow when they lose their job, or need cash whilst looking for a job/upskilling.

I reckon that if welfare is cut hard then people on it will get pretty upset and make a lot of noise, much more than those who have jobs, and that's when things will balance out. When welfare people start making noise, that's when the employed will realise how lucky they are to be in a job (and will maybe lose the attitude and illusion that those on Welfare are living it up and having the time of their life).


At the moment, judging from Boards, i'd say that employed people hate Welfare recipients because welfare recipients are a bunch of lazy, useless, workaphobic, con men who are screwing the system (and thus Ireland) out of everything.

In 2010, if welfare recipients get pissed off, then i reckon the attitude will change to "thank fcuk im not on welfare like those poor cnuts".



But my own rant aside, to answer your question, generally speaking, no. I don't think employed people give a shit about the unemployed. Employed people are under the impression that recession or not, there are tonnes of jobs being offered door-to-door to unemployed people, but they wont take them because, either:

1. The job is below the person
2. The person is too lazy for work



But again, that is merely my opinion after having read many, many posts on boards over the past year or so.

Caoimhín

There is very little organised or funded bodies representing the unemployed. The unions are well funded and connected therefore they get lots of airtime on the national broadcaster (who's researchers, journalists and editors are members of the said unions).

Rantan

There is nothing I can do for unemployed people other than pay the tax that pays their social welfare. Do I care? Not really, its tough, will I care this Friday afternoon when I walk out the door of my office and on to the dole, damn f***in right I will.
There is no voice for unemployed people in this country because the unemployed are an underclass and as such have nothing to offer. How many people with their strong opinions on this thread are actually unemployed? I would like to see a forum here that is for the unemployed and gives the unemployed somewhere to rant amongst their inconsequential selves.
How do you go about suggesting this or establishing it, any help?

Seth Brundle

Ask for a new forum here...

Tipp Man

Rantan wrote: »

There is nothing I can do for unemployed people other than pay the tax that pays their social welfare. Do I care? Not really, its tough, will I care this Friday afternoon when I walk out the door of my office and on to the dole, damn f***in right I will.
There is no voice for unemployed people in this country because the unemployed are an underclass and as such have nothing to offer. How many people with their strong opinions on this thread are actually unemployed? I would like to see a forum here that is for the unemployed and gives the unemployed somewhere to rant amongst their inconsequential selves.
How do you go about suggesting this or establishing it, any help?

sorry but there is plenty of voice for the unemployed, all i ever hear on the radio and tv is protecting the "vunerable" in our society, i.e all those on state benefits, they get more air time than anyone, apart from the unions.

And if you are asking why the employed are so p#ssed off, well my salary fell €250 per month since the April budget, ignoring the Dec budget, and whats it being spent on an over inflated, underworked, and in general useless PS and a way too cushy and overpaid social system which doesn't even distinguish if you have worked your entire life and been unlucky to loose your job or spunged all your life and never contributed a penny to this country

so I'm pi##ed that i'm working 60 hours a week to keep others in a good lifestyle

Rantan

Tipp Man wrote: »

sorry but there is plenty of voice for the unemployed, all i ever hear on the radio and tv is protecting the "vunerable" in our society, i.e all those on state benefits, they get more air time than anyone, apart from the unions.

And if you are asking why the employed are so p#ssed off, well my salary fell €250 per month since the April budget, ignoring the Dec budget, and whats it being spent on an over inflated, underworked, and in general useless PS and a way too cushy and overpaid social system which doesn't even distinguish if you have worked your entire life and been unlucky to loose your job or spunged all your life and never contributed a penny to this country

so I'm pi##ed that i'm working 60 hours a week to keep others in a good lifestyle

s**t, I hope you never lose your job, and get the opportunity to experience the good life, I wil be on teh dole next week and certainly am not looking forward to this cushy existence.

Tipp Man

Rantan wrote: »

s**t, I hope you never lose your job, and get the opportunity to experience the good life, I wil be on teh dole next week and certainly am not looking forward to this cushy existence.

You are loosing your job next week (sorry to hear that), so i can assume that you have paid taxes, PRSI etc for all of your working life?? Are you happy that someone who has contributed absolutley nothing to this country gets the same social as you??

amacachi

hinault wrote: »

There would be blue murder in any other nation if unemployment levels were at 14%.

The Spanish have gone around 10% above that and I haven't heard of any genocide yet.

*EDIT* Not found a reliable source for 24% but it's well above ours anyway.

monkeypants

Sleepy wrote: »

As an unemployed person: because I'd rather spend my time trying to get a new job (job-hunting and up-skilling) than ringing Joe Duffy. Somehow I think it'll do me more good.

+1

I'm too embarrassed about it to be honest. Just looking forward to earning a wage again someday.

Rantan

Tipp Man wrote: »

You are loosing your job next week (sorry to hear that), so i can assume that you have paid taxes, PRSI etc for all of your working life?? Are you happy that someone who has contributed absolutley nothing to this country gets the same social as you??

no of course I'm not happy about it, its not right, but to be honest I've more important things to worry about, every society has gougers, there always will be gougers.
Of course something should be done to "encourage" them back to work, reduced payments if no genuine effort is made to find work etc etc

irish_bob

Caoimhín wrote: »

There is very little organised or funded bodies representing the unemployed. The unions are well funded and connected therefore they get lots of airtime on the national broadcaster (who's researchers, journalists and editors are members of the said unions).

perhaps not the recently made unemployed but the long term unemployed or wellfare class are well represented , the povery industry is very vocal in this country and has easy access to our media , vincent browne has someone on his panel at least one night a week

private sector middle income earners are the least represented people in ireland , ironically enough this is also the largest working group although close to 200 thousand of them have become unemployed in the last 18 months

Upsider

no sentimentality, empathy, understanding here eh? All the unemployed grouped into one large amorphis mass (if that doesn't represent multiple oxymorons!).

Do you REALLY REALLY think that state benefits adequately assist ALL unemployed? I mean, there are over 400,000 of them?

monkeypants

Upsider wrote: »

no sentimentality, empathy, understanding here eh? All the unemployed grouped into one large amorphis mass (if that doesn't represent multiple oxymorons!).

It's not an accident. The government and various lobby groups have been trying for months to pit the private and public sectors against one another. Generalisations help.

Scofflaw

Sleepy wrote: »

As an unemployed person: because I'd rather spend my time trying to get a new job (job-hunting and up-skilling) than ringing Joe Duffy. Somehow I think it'll do me more good.

The employed are driven by fear of unemployment, but that's not a big motivator for those who have already lost their jobs. They have more pressing concerns.

cordially,
Scofflaw

seclachi

As somebody said to me when I was just out of college, "You dont have to worry about anything, You have nothing, you dont have anything to loose"

Upsider

this is my point, raised by the last two posters actually - two hundred thousand workers AT LEAT are not long term unemployed but lost their job in the last eighteen months - that's the first point; the second point relates to the last poter, who raise private versus public sector - to which sector was she/he assuming the unemployed belong?

lmimmfn

what about "societies vulnerable"? arrrgghhhhhhhhhhhh

Upsider

and your point is, exactly?

nesf

Upsider wrote: »

Why are the unemployed so quiet? Even on the talk shows? Why is it (a sociological question as opposed to a rant) that it is those WITH jobs rather than those without them, who are making most noise about our economic state?

Those with jobs aren't making noise. Unions representing some of those with jobs are making a lot of noise, the rest of us are keeping our heads down and getting on with things.

Nate--IRL--

Upsider wrote: »

and your point is, exactly?

The point is, it is a useless sound bite used by people who purport to represent the interests of, but ultimately don't give a **** about, "societies vulnerable" and do nothing to alleviate their situation, bar talking shíte.

Nate

Rantan

mikemac wrote: »

Most days on the radio you can hear representatives from different bodies talking about the "most vunerable in our society"
And that's great and they are represented

They are better represented then many private sectors workers paying PAYE, PRSI, BIK and levies and watching over half their income gone and being told "lucky to have a job". And anyone who can earn enough to pay 41% rate is rich....... Sure it's pointless working overtime!
Not sure who represents them. Nobody possibly
Yes, great to have a job, luck isn't a huge part of it but anyway this thread was about who has is making noise and has representation

ANd you think they are referring specifically to people out of work and not referring to elderly, sick, underpriviliged, homeless, abused etc etc? There is no voice for unemployed to speak for themselves and represent their own position. "Well meaning" politicians lump them in with this new social group "the vunerable." I think you would find if you actually calculated the amount of airtime given you'd find unions and IBEC and similar bodies have had a lot more of it than the unemployed. As a PAYE worker you represent yourself, if you are not happy with that join a union. Why do you feel you need representation so badly?

Idbatterim

Fair play TIPPMAN you hit the nail on the head with a few of your points!