Your team for South Africa

P_1

Right so we've seen what we have done in the last 2 matches and have picked up a few injuries. Who would be in your 22 for the South Africa match and why?

My 22 would be:

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. O'Brien
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Horgan

The 2 O's in the 2nd row because they've been proven as a partnership and are probably our best option against Matfield and Botha.

Hayes in mainly due to our lack of options also as O'Connell's personal lifter, will give us a chance in the lineouts. Healy offers more in the loose than Court and I'd imagine he'll get along fine against Smit. Court should replace Hayes as soon as the Boks bring Botha on.

Wallace ahead of D'Arcy as I think a distributing 12 rather than a crash 12 is the better choice against the Boks.

Earls instead of Horgan as I'd imagine the only duties Habana and Pieterson will have is to chase kicks and Earls offers more in attack IMO.

The Big one:
O'Gara to start, dodgy pass aside he had a decent game against the Aussies and I think Sexton offers more of a game changing influence off the Bench than O'Gara.


Don't rip me to pieces over this choice what are your 22's?

GymJim

This is definitely going to be the team so won't rip you apart at all.

Agree on Sexton being more of a game-changing option though can also see it would be the opportune time to throw him in and see if he sinks or sims against the world-class team.

I'd actually have Darcy or Trimble on the bench however.

Pity we've no alternative on the bench to Court though...doesn't inspire confidence.

thomond2006

Healy
Flannery
Hayes
Cullen
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
TOL
Sexton
Earls
Wallace
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Cronin
Court
Casey (deserves a chance ffs, DOC has lost his nine lives)
Best (will be SOB though )
Stringer (more impact than Reddan, if he's on form that is)
ROG
Horgan (more impact than D'Arcy)


A few controversial choices to say the least.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

Healy
Flannery
Hayes
Cullen
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
TOL
Sexton
Earls
Wallace
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Cronin
Court
Casey (deserves a chance ffs)
Best (will be SOB though )
Stringer (more impact than Reddan, if he's on form that is)
ROG
Horgan (more impact than D'Arcy)


A few controversial choices to say the least.

Are you Mrs Casey?

corny

1. Healy
2. Flannery (should be ok i hope)
3. Hayes
4. Bob Casey (would be most effective against Botha) (won't happen though)
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace (Brussouw is going to kill us)
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton (again won't happen i know)
11. Earls
12. Wallace (Darcy just isn't getting it done)
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

thomond2006

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Are you Mrs Casey?

Well played Sir!

Was waiting for that!

P_1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well played Sir!

Was waiting for that!

*tom, tom, crash!:D

phily2002

1 Healy
2 Flannery(best of an average lot)
3 Buckley(won't be popular but his strenght against SA would do us the world of good
4 POC
5 Casey(again won't happen but DOC and Cullen are not up to it)
6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip
9 TOL
10 Sexton(has been better all season, and OGara's ability to not make tackle is a big red target for SA
11 Earls
12 Darcy
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

thehighground

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Are you Mrs Casey?

I thought Thomond's Dad was Willie Sexton, though now that you mention it ....

Chucky the tree

phily2002 wrote: »

1 Healy
2 Flannery(best of an average lot)
3 Buckley(won't be popular but his strenght against SA would do us the world of good
4 POC
5 Casey(again won't happen but DOC and Cullen are not up to it)
6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip
9 TOL
10 Sexton(has been better all season, and OGara's ability to not make tackle is a big red target for SA
11 Earls
12 Darcy
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

What? We'd be destroyed in the scrums. Buckley shouldn't even get near the bench let alone starting.

remus808

Lads where are people getting the idea Court is a better scrummager than Healy? I've heard that one a few times today. Don't believe it for a minute, Healy was let down by the rest of the frontrow last week. He has proven his scrummaging capabilities many times for Leinster (albeit at HEC level rather than International, but against some very good props nonetheless). Court is nothing special

phily2002

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What? We'd be destroyed in the scrums. Buckley shouldn't even get near the bench let alone starting.

Hayes can scrum(not even that great) but thats it, he offers nothing else, Yeah Buckleys not the strongest scrummager but he's not as bad as some people make out. I think he offers more than Hayes and can more than hold his own in a physical game. just my $0.02

DBraithwaite

This is Irelands last friendly before the 6N, therefore Kidney should give sexton a start. If he doesnt he will have to make his start in a match where there is points at stake. It would be better to see what he is like now before the 6N. If things are going bad we can bring on ROG to steady the ship.

I believe JS deserves his chance after a wonderful all round performance tonight.

I no there is the ROG side to this debate too but this is just my opinion.

George Hook thinks this way also, if anyone saw him and Popey post match.

remus808

Can't believe people are bashing Hayes, his workrate is incredible. OK he dosen't ball-carry like Buckley does, but he offers far more on the whole. Our pack has plenty of ball-carrying ability as it is. Neither of them can scrum anyway (although Buckley is a liability scrumwise compared to Hayes) so that's a moot point. How quickly people forget!

DBraithwaite

karmabass wrote: »

Can't believe people are bashing Hayes, his workrate is incredible. OK he dosen't ball-carry like Buckley does, but he offers far more on the whole. Our pack has plenty of ball-carrying ability as it is. Neither of them can scrum anyway (although Buckley is a liability scrumwise compared to Hayes) so that's a moot point. How quickly people forget!

PLUS he is an Irish rugby legend, and received virtually no credit for the incredible amount of work he puts in. Irish rugby owes a lot to him.

Theus

1. Cian Healy
2. Jerry Flannery
3. John Hayes
4. Donnacha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Johnathan Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Paddy Wallace
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

remus808

DBraithwaite wrote: »

PLUS he is an Irish rugby legend, and received virtually no credit for the incredible amount of work he puts in. Irish rugby owes a lot to him.

That was the unspoken thinking behind my final sentence - exactly!

remus808

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. O'Callaghan
19. O'Brien (think I'd prefer KMcL there though, but however)
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. D'Arcy (unlucky for Horgan)

Mr.Applepie

pithater1 wrote: »

Wallace ahead of D'Arcy as I think a distributing 12 rather than a crash 12 is the better choice against the Boks.

Did you miss the Lions tour? I think D'Arcy would be perfect for this game. The Boks have a weak midfield and D'Arcy & BOD could take them to the cleaners.

I thought D'Arcy had a good game today. He's not back to his best but I'd still have him ahead of Wallace

DBraithwaite

karmabass wrote: »

That was the unspoken thinking behind my final sentence - exactly!

Just didn't know how to sum it up in a couple of sentences:D:D:D

thehighground

karmabass wrote: »

Can't believe people are bashing Hayes, his workrate is incredible. OK he dosen't ball-carry like Buckley does, but he offers far more on the whole. Our pack has plenty of ball-carrying ability as it is. Neither of them can scrum anyway (although Buckley is a liability scrumwise compared to Hayes) so that's a moot point. How quickly people forget!

Apart from anything else, during last years 6Ns, Ireland scored 70% of their tries from LOs. We all know why our LO is so good, don't we?

(BTW, there are usually double the amount of LOs to scrums in a match).

phily2002

DBraithwaite wrote: »

PLUS he is an Irish rugby legend, and received virtually no credit for the incredible amount of work he puts in. Irish rugby owes a lot to him.

I don't mean to bash him him, I know he's been a great asset to his country, but like DOC people always say they put in alot of uncredited work, but lately I don't think thats true, Hayes doesn't carry ball, doesn't turn over ball, he can be beaten quite easily by players with any pace, yeah he gets to rucks but so does any prop, is this really good enough for international level?

DBraithwaite

karmabass wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. O'Callaghan
19. O'Brien (think I'd prefer KMcL there though, but however)
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. D'Arcy (unlucky for Horgan)

I think giving KMCL a bit more time to get his head round what has already been an incredible year would maybe be better. Might be best not to throw him in at the deep end.......without armbands !

DBraithwaite

phily2002 wrote: »

I don't mean to bash him him, I know he's been a great asset to his country, but like DOC people always say they put in alot of uncredited work, but lately I don't think thats true, Hayes doesn't carry ball, doesn't turn over ball, he can be beaten quite easily by players with any pace, yeah he gets to rucks but so does any prop, is this really good enough for international level?

I can see your point, it all comes down to what people call unseen, uncredited work though?



But its a fair view.

irishbucsfan

phily2002 wrote: »

Hayes can scrum(not even that great) but thats it, he offers nothing else, Yeah Buckleys not the strongest scrummager but he's not as bad as some people make out. I think he offers more than Hayes and can more than hold his own in a physical game. just my $0.02

Buckley would be embarrassed by the Beast, Even today against a sham frontrow he was losing the battle (got a very lucky decision from the ref at one point)... absolutely hopeless. Shouldn't be anywhere near the squad ahead of Court, and Mike Ross is lightyears ahead of him.

kpnuts

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. Casey
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. O'Brien
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Horgan

anonymous_joe

1. Healy
2. Fla
3. Hayes
4. CullenHmmm. Bah. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. TOL
10. Sexton

11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Kyriacou
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. Dunno. Tempted to say Neil Best. Who covers the most positions?
20. Reddan
21. D'Arcy
22. ROG.

Madworld

This is the team I think Kidney should pick. It is based primarily on the physicality factor. Normally I would avoid trying to put it up to South Africa in the physical stakes. However South Africa must be drained having played three grueling matches against Leicester, Saracens and France

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Ross

A front rows job is to scrummage. This is our best scrumaging unit. Hayes is 36 and a liability when it comes to scrumaging. Ross on the other hand was one of the most destructive scrumagers in the GP last year. I just cant get my head around why Mushy and Hayes are ahead of him

4. Casey
5. O Connell

The second rows primary job is in the lineout. These are our two best lineout operators we have. Simple as. POC will always start. Casey is better than either DOC and Cullen at this aspect of the game.

6. Ferris
7. Best
8. Heaslip

This is I believe is the most physical backrow we can put out. 6 and 8 are not contentious. However I really do think Best should get the nod at 7. He is a ferocious tackler and he is just that much bit younger than Wallace when looking at the long term goal of the WC.

9. O Leary
10. Sexton

O Leary offers more in terms of defence than Reddan. Because of this he gets the nod for me. I think Sexton after his performances today really showed why he should start against a South Africa team. Also I could really see SA targeting ROG again after his nightmare showing in the summer.

12. Darcy
13. O Driscoll

BOD is a no brainer. I picked Darcy ahead of Wallace is simply to small at 12 stone to play first centre in International rugby. Darcy offers more in terms of defence and the crash ball which I think could prove effective against the SA team atm.

11. Horgan
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Again 14 and 15 are fairly obvious. I picked Horgan ahead of Earls because he has had more game time this season and also due to the big physical threat he poses.

16. Hayes
17. Cronin
18. Cullen
19. Wallace
20. Reddan
21. O Gara
22. Earls

thomond2006

Madworld wrote: »

16. Hayes
17. Cullen
18. Wallace
19. Reddan
20. O Gara
21. Wallace
22. Earls

You must have a recognised hooker and a recognised prop on the bench.

irishbucsfan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

19. Dunno. Tempted to say Neil Best. Who covers the most positions?

I think this will be SOB, considering he was capped today and all. He covers right across the backrow as well (as well as hooker potentially if you listen to that eejit on the telly)

anonymous_joe

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think this will be SOB, considering he was capped today and all. He covers right across the backrow as well (as well as hooker potentially if you listen to that eejit on the telly)

If. :pac:

stephen_n

pithater1 wrote: »

Right so we've seen what we have done in the last 2 matches and have picked up a few injuries. Who would be in your 22 for the South Africa match and why?

My 22 would be:

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. O'Brien
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Darcy

That's the only change I'd make to the squad that i think will be picked and that is purely because Darcy provides better cover outside 10 than Horgan.

Jam-Fly

Few things, this is my team to play South Africa in a few days time, knowing it's an autumn's international match. This is not my 'strongest Ireland 15 at the moment'. I'm picking this team for this particular match. If I had to pick an Ireland 15 to play for the World Cup tommorrow, this team prob wouldn't be it.


1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes

(Front row pretty much picks itself. Flannery and Hayes two players I wud've loved to have seen get their chance against the boks during the summer. I'm choosing Healy over Court although I think it's good that we have 3 players capable of playing at 1)

4. DOC
5. POC

(Going with DOC over Cullen here. Again I think familiarity is key here. POC/DOC/Fla have been together for yonks and it's proved succesful. Yeah, maybe now IS the game to give the POC/Cullen partnership a chance to imrprove but for me, DOC just about retains his place. It's close, but I'd still pick Donncha to play SA)

6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

(I think without a doubt our strongest backrow and imo the best back row in the world. The only question is if you want to give other players an oppurtunity/experience against a good team etc. IMO, no. I can't really see us changing the back row for the 6N, and tbh, I'd hope these 3 start in WC2011 also.

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton

(O'Leary is our best SH so I think it's important to start him. I know partnerships are important, esp at half back, but I think it would be a mistake to start Reddan if your going to start Sexton just because those players are familiar with each other. Right now, getting experience for Sexton at top class level in case he needs to replace O'Gara is more important than giving experience to a replacement SH. So yeah, O'Leary to partner Sexton. Sexton over O'Gara because I think it's the IDEAL time to bring Sexton in. So far, he has been perfect in an Ireland shirt and any big pressure games he's played. You'd expect a young fellow like him to stutter eventually but in fairness to him, he seems to keep going. A game against the World Champions in a (technically) non-competitive match is exactly the platform we want to Sexton on at the moment. For the first game of the 6N, I'd still expect O'Gara to start, but it's important for Sexton to have some experience under his belt in case he needs to come if O'Gara gets injured OR if O'Gara dips in form!)

12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll

(IMO, the best centre partnership. Can't really why Wallace is being selected over D'Arcy, D'arcy is a better player imo.)

11. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

(Prob the best back three in world rugby atm. As Fitz is out, they pick themselves. It's also great to have strength in depth with the likes of Horgan, Trimble, Dowling, Murphy all keeping the pressure on those starting. If Fitz was available, I'd be tempted to play him at 12 at the expense of D'arcy. It's very interesting, and imo the hardest decision of the lot. In the back 5, if you assume Drico, Bowe and Kearney are definites, you have to pick 2 players of Fitz, Earls, D'arcy and Wallace. If the WC final was on tomor (and Fitzgerald was fit obviously!) I'd pick Fitz at 11 and D'arcy at 12. As it happens, Fitz is out, and I've picked D'arcy over Wallace)

Jam-Fly

karmabass wrote: »

Can't believe people are bashing Hayes, his workrate is incredible. OK he dosen't ball-carry like Buckley does, but he offers far more on the whole. Our pack has plenty of ball-carrying ability as it is. Neither of them can scrum anyway (although Buckley is a liability scrumwise compared to Hayes) so that's a moot point. How quickly people forget!

phily2002 wrote: »

I don't mean to bash him him, I know he's been a great asset to his country, but like DOC people always say they put in alot of uncredited work, but lately I don't think thats true, Hayes doesn't carry ball, doesn't turn over ball, he can be beaten quite easily by players with any pace, yeah he gets to rucks but so does any prop, is this really good enough for international level?

First of all, I'm just about John Hayes' biggest fan. Secondly, I think the guy has to be the most over-thanked unsung hero in the world, possibly after Makelele!

Anyway, if I felt Hayes was not up to it anymore, or was past it, he wouldn't be in my 15. He's a great a guy and has been a great asset to Irish Rugby, but that doesn't mean a thing if he doesn't have the talent to start. If Willie John McBride wanted to partner POC in the 2nd row next week, would you
want him there! :rolleyes:
Basically what I'm saying is, Hayes isn't a 'sentimental' choice for me. He's not even a 'well, we don't have many decent tightheads, so I'll pick him'. For me, the reason I picked Hayes, is because he's still up to it and he's still a great player. He's excellent in the lineout, and imo, he does the job in the scrum. I thinks saying he is a bad scrummager is a very harsh statement. Maybe he's not one of the best in the world, but he is CERTAINLY international quality. We'll see against South Africa, but I think the beast is finnally going to meet his match in the form of the man from Cappamore. In open play, he is decent. He doesn't carry the ball, but Flannerry, O'Connell and Wallace excellent ball carriers anyway so I don't think it really matters all that much. He hits rucks and makes tackles so it's not exactly like he's a liability. And to the 'he's got for pace comment', eh, well show me a tight-head prop who is able to keep up with a winger and you'll show you a slow winger!

[Jackass]

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Conell
6. Ferris
7. Walace
8. Heaslip

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

chupacabra

1. Gordon D'Arcy
2. Jonathan Sexton
3. Tomas O'Leary
4. Peter Stringer
5. Peter Stringer
6. Keith Earls
7. Brian O'Driscoll
8. Ronan O'Gara

9. Devin Toner
10. Paddy "Rala" O'Reilly
11. John Hayes
12. DOC
13. POC
14. Tony Buckley
15. Rob Kearney

conf101

chupacabra wrote: »

1. Gordon D'Arcy
2. Jonathan Sexton
3. Tomas O'Leary
4. Peter Stringer
5. Peter Stringer
6. Keith Earls
7. Brian O'Driscoll
8. Ronan O'Gara

9. Devin Toner
10. Paddy "Rala" O'Reilly
11. John Hayes
12. DOC
13. POC
14. Tony Buckley
15. Rob Kearney

I wouldn't have a problem with most of that except for putting Kearney at 15! Are you serious? He'd be hopeless there!!

Morf

conf101 wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with most of that except for putting Kearney at 15! Are you serious? He'd be hopeless there!!

Couldn't catch and kick his way out of a wet paper bag.

chupacabra

conf101 wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with most of that except for putting Kearney at 15! Are you serious? He'd be hopeless there!!

Yeah, bit of a wildcard selection alright.

pappyodaniel

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll (c)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. Cullen
19. O'Brien
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. D'Arcy

I think we have to stick with the Munster second row pairing, they are a double act, they're no Botha/Matfield but it's tried and tested.

I'd go with Sexton at 10 even though I don't think there's much chance of that happening, but it's my team and I think he's ready.

Earls ahead of Horgan (obviously)

I'd stick with P.Wallace with D'Arcy on the bench.

and finally i'd have Buckley on the bench. I'm hoping that handlebar moustache is giving him super powers because his work in the loose at the weekend was phenomenal, how many times did he show soft hands for a big man. Anyways, Court is a good prop but Buckley could be great (like Healy).

Jam-Fly

chupacabra wrote: »

1. Gordon D'Arcy
2. Jonathan Sexton
3. Tomas O'Leary
4. Peter Stringer
5. Peter Stringer
6. Keith Earls
7. Brian O'Driscoll
8. Ronan O'Gara

9. Devin Toner
10. Paddy "Rala" O'Reilly
11. John Hayes
12. DOC
13. POC
14. Tony Buckley
15. Rob Kearney

Terible selection. Where is Andy Reid?