Buyer attempting scam (i think)

KTRIC

I sold a laptop on ebay.uk recently to a buyer in the UK. It was sold with a faulty keyboard and this was described in the auction.

When I was re-imaging it before it was shipped I fixed the keyboard fault (10 year IT engineer) and packed the laptop up well. So essentially it left my possession in good working order. It also went for quite little, just 80 pounds, it was 3 years old so I didn't mind.

The buyer contacted me yesterday to say that it was faulty and there was a band down one side of the screen and claiming it was like that when it arrived or it is now as he says.

In the auction it had pictures of the laptop working but now the buyer wants a refund and paypal are holding the money until he says that the laptop is ok.

There was nothing stopping him harvesting parts from the laptop and then saying it was faulty, which I think happened.

He hasn't opened a claim with paypal but would like me to take it back.

What will I do ?

corktina

cut your losses, tell him to return it and you'll refund him. (if its paid for by that time of course)

jor el

And he will have to pay for return, by registered post, so it probably won't be worth his while.

Call his bluff, tell him to send it back and you'll refund. But if he sends it by non-registered or non-trackable post, you don't have to do anything. Paypal will insist on being able to track it, and won't force you to refund if there isn't any tracking info submitted.

KTRIC

Thanks Jor-el, sounds like a plan.

KTRIC

It's been five days since I asked him to send it back to me and nothing since.

No replies to my emails and no tracking number. Money is still on hold in my Paypal account

jor el

I think you'll just have to wait. If he doesn't respond to the dispute, then Paypal will automatically close it after 20 days.

KTRIC

jor el wrote: »

I think you'll just have to wait. If he doesn't respond to the dispute, then Paypal will automatically close it after 20 days.

I didn't open a dispute as they seem to be just for the buyers. He hasn't opened a dispute either.

I'm lost to be honest.

eth0_

jor el wrote: »

I think you'll just have to wait. If he doesn't respond to the dispute, then Paypal will automatically close it after 20 days.

They won't, this is a random security thing Paypal do. I sold a keyboard (piano!) last year, went for £300. I withdrew the money to my bank account the day the seller paid me, and within a few hours Paypal had reversed the withdrawal and placed a hold on my account until I sent them proof I owned the keyboard, proof of postage with tracking number, and the buyer had to say he'd received it and it was as described.

RoadKillTs

And he will have to pay for return, by registered post, so it probably won't be worth his while.

Call his bluff, tell him to send it back and you'll refund. But if he sends it by non-registered or non-trackable post, you don't have to do anything. Paypal will insist on being able to track it, and won't force you to refund if there isn't any tracking info submitted.

Good advice. Keeps us posted OP. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

I'd say he is waiting for you to make the next move.

jor el

KTRIC wrote: »

He hasn't opened a dispute either.

eth0_ wrote: »

They won't, this is a random security thing Paypal do.

Seems you're the unlucky randomer.

eth0_

jor el wrote: »

Seems you're the unlucky randomer.

Where did I mentioned my buyer had opened a dispute against me? :rolleyes:

There was no dispute - as I said, it was a random security check that Paypal instigated...because I withdrew the funds to my bank account "too quickly".

jor el

eth0_ wrote: »

Where did I mentioned my buyer had opened a dispute against me? :rolleyes:

I was referring to KTRIC :rolleyes:

KTRIC

I emailed paypal this morning and got a stupid response that was absolutely no use.

Thank you for contacting PayPal my name is Mac. I am more than happy to be
assisting you today.

Your payments will typically not be held if you meet all the following
requirements:
Your eBay tenure is more than 6 months.
Your eBay feedback rating more than 100.
Your buyer dissatisfaction is less than 5%.
Or, if you meet all the following requirements:

Your Detailed Seller Rating is greater than 4.5.
Total Detailed Seller Ratings Received: More than 20 in the last 12 months.

Your buyer Dissatisfaction less than 5%.
If you have had more than 5% dissatisfied buyers in the last 30 days, you
are required to offer PayPal or a merchant credit card and may have your
(or incoming) payments held.

These requirements are per individual eBay account.

If you don't meet these criteria, we recommend that you implement best
practices to reduce buyer disputes, claims and chargebacks.

Should you need any further information on this query or any other query,
please do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,
Mac
PayPal European Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l.
& Cie, S.C.A. Société en Commandite par Actions. Registered Office: 5th
Floor, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

Original Message Follows:

---

Form Message
customer subject: Payment on hold - no response from buyer
customer message: Transaction ID: '52P14812P********'
Additional Information: 'I sold a laptop on ebay.co.uk (############) on
the ##th of November to a buyer in the UK. It was sold with a faulty
keyboard and this was described in the auction.

The buyer contacted me on the ##th of November to say that it was faulty
and there was a band down one side of the screen. The screen was not
faulty when it was shipped and it had sufficient packing.

In the auction it had pictures of the laptop working but now the buyer
wants a refund. I agreed that he should send the laptop back to me on the
##nd of November via registered post but since then he has not replied to
any of my emails.

He hasn't opened a claim with paypal or ebay and the payment for the
auction is still on hold in my account.

Can you please tell me how to resolve this issue ?

No response from the buyer for a week now.

RasTa

That is going to time out after 20 days. What you should have done is escalate it to a claim, tell the buyer to send it back. If nothing after 10 days then the claim times out.

star.chaser

you have his address. get a cheap ryanair flight over and kick the schit out of him. that'll teach him.

KTRIC

RasTa wrote: »

That is going to time out after 20 days. What you should have done is escalate it to a claim, tell the buyer to send it back. If nothing after 10 days then the claim times out.

What type of claim and with paypal or ebay ?

Already opened a dispute with ebay today.

RasTa

KTRIC wrote: »

What type of claim and with paypal or ebay ?

Already opened a dispute with ebay today.

No idea how ebay works with claims but you can't open any claims with paypal as a seller. If the buyer opened it with paypal then just escalate it and offer the refund option. Don't now obviously if the 20 days are almost up.

KTRIC

I had a look through Paypal resolution center and its all for buyers. Can't see anything that would favour the sellers.


Still no contact from this guy, anyone any idea where to go ?

Tiesto

dont the funds in your account get released after 20 days and on the basis that the buyer hasnt left bad feedback?

KTRIC

Tiesto wrote: »

dont the funds in your account get released after 20 days and on the basis that the buyer hasnt left bad feedback?

In that case it'll be 20 days tomorrow. I'll wait and see what happens.

RasTa

KTRIC wrote: »

I had a look through Paypal resolution center and its all for buyers. Can't see anything that would favour the sellers.


Still no contact from this guy, anyone any idea where to go ?

Is this payment on hold due to a buyer dispute on PayPal or an ebay hold? which is also on paypal.

KTRIC

RasTa wrote: »

Is this payment on hold due to a buyer dispute on PayPal or an ebay hold? which is also on paypal.

Its on hold due to Paypal's security features. The buyer sends the money , then receives the goods and marks them as received, the money is then released into my account.

RasTa

Yeah it's an ebay hold and 21 days is the hold timeframe.

ttm

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah it's an ebay hold and 21 days is the hold timeframe.

So does that mean if the buyer does nothing and doesn't leave feedback then the seller gets their money after 21 days elapses.

Sorry I know you work for PayPal but that must be a nice little earner for them, no doubt they give the money that belongs to the seller in interest to charity? Wonder if its a random security check or regular cash cow?

RasTa

Yeah it was brought in because the dodgy sellers where getting paid, withdrawing the money and not posting out the items.

By the time the buyer dispute was raised, the seller would have cleaned out his account thus costing paypal money. So multiply this by all the dodgy seller's and it's a good chunk of change.

It doesn't happen to every seller and once fb is over 100 it won't happen.

ttm

@ RasTa, Could ya edit that as it does provide very useful info to any current or potential scammers.

jor el

ttm wrote: »

@ RasTa, Could ya edit that as it does provide very useful info to any current or potential scammers.

The scammers are well aware of what they need to do in order to maximise the scam profits, and minimise chance of payment being put on hold. They use shill accounts, and shill auctions, to up their feedback rating with cheap $1 auctions, or they buy cheap $1 items from other (genuine) sellers, in order to prop up the feedback.

ttm

jor el wrote: »

The scammers are well aware of what they need to do in order to maximise the scam profits, and minimise chance of payment being put on hold. They use shill accounts, and shill auctions, to up their feedback rating with cheap $1 auctions, or they buy cheap $1 items from other (genuine) sellers, in order to prop up the feedback.

Your obviously not taking notes :P as the last couple of high value eBay scams I've watched operate were from accounts that had lots of shill and bought feedback but didn't actually meet the requirements stated above. I suspect the next one I spot will.

jor el

ttm wrote: »

Your obviously not taking notes :P as the last couple of high value eBay scams I've watched operate were from accounts that had lots of shill and bought feedback but didn't actually meet the requirements stated above. I suspect the next one I spot will.

But the hold on funds is applied randomly and only to a few accounts, so only a small number of scammer will be put in that situation, if any, even if they don't meet the criteria stated.

ttm

jor el wrote: »

But the hold on funds is applied randomly and only to a few accounts, so only a small number of scammer will be put in that situation, if any, even if they don't meet the criteria stated.

Fair comment, many of the scammers seem to think that about 40 feedback is all they need or at least or they can be bothered to shill/buy before the greed factor kicks in and they start dreaming of all the money thye could be making so don't do a better job of getting better feedback.

jor el

ttm wrote: »

Fair comment, many of the scammers seem to think that about 40 feedback is all they need or at least or they can be bothered to shill/buy before the greed factor kicks in and they start dreaming of all the money thye could be making so don't do a better job of getting better feedback.

That's it. Any more than 10 positive, and no negative, is enough to get a lot of buyers to buy your non existent products. People believe that a couple of positive comments (no matter what they were for) is enough to make a seller trustworthy. Most people won't even view the feedback details anyway, all they'll see is Feedback (14) 100% = Happy Days! Queue Homer mode; I can't possibly loose...

There's only so much eBay and Paypal can do, even if they're not currently doing all they can do, but buyers need to take responsibility for their actions too. When it's an obvious scam, then it's only buyer's stupidity that allows the scam to work, and when the price is unbelievably cheap they shouldn't believe it.

Amalgam

KTRIC, update the thread if events move on.

RasTa

Even if PayPal hold the payments we legally have to give them back to the account holder after 6 months. We can't break our own T+C's and the scammers would love to sue us.

KTRIC

Funds still on hold. Buyer has not responded to emails or ebay claim.

KTRIC

Good news everyone !!!


Got the money, Paypal released it after 21 days. The stupid c*nt still hasn't replied to any emails or ebay claims.

RoadKillTs

Good news everyone !!!

Nice one. Worked out well in the end.

ttm

Glad it all worked out and thanks for the info KTRIC; its always nice to know how eBay/PayPal works as they don't exactly advertise the inner workings.

ttm

ttm wrote: »

Your obviously not taking notes :P as the last couple of high value eBay scams I've watched operate were from accounts that had lots of shill and bought feedback but didn't actually meet the requirements stated above. I suspect the next one I spot will.

Just to say told you so because Ebay Dodgy Irish Mass Clearance Seller is back with the correct amount of feedback.