England V New Zealand. Twickenham. Sat 21 Nov.14:30. SS2.

toomevara

England: Cueto; Banahan, Hipkiss, Erinle, Monye; Wilkinson, Hodgson; Payne, Hartley, Bell, Shaw, Borthwick (capt), Worsley, Moody, Haskell.

Replacements: Thompson, Wilson, Deacon, Croft, Care, Geraghty, Tait.

New Zealand: Muliaina; Guildford, C Smith, Nonu, Sivivatu; Carter, Cowan; Woodcock, Hore, Franks; Thorn, Donnelly, Thomson, McCaw (capt), Read.

Replacements: Flynn/De Malmanche, Afoa, Boric, Kaino, Ellis, Donald, Ellison.

This could be ugly for England. Yet another exceptionally conservative team selection. Very strange, one dimensional midfield, I sense more defence based drudgery in the offing with the inevitable endless kick'n'chase. Johnson's looking increasingly beleaguered/uncomfortable as manager. His exceptionally programmed style of management allowing no innovation or heads up rugby.

Judgement Day

Yep, could be a hiding for England, can't understand why Monye has been picked yet again but at least there's no sign of Andy Goode! That said England, in common with Ireland, play best when they are underdogs with nothing to lose. A lot depends on Jonno and his field kicking wasn't up to his usual high standard in the Pumas match. It's hard for one man to win the match on his own.

C'MON LADS ENGLAND EXPECTS..!

Digifriendly

Simon Shaw and Joe Worsley definitely improve look of the home pack but still think NZ will win by 10-12 points.

toomevara

Digifriendly wrote: »

Simon Shaw and Joe Worsley definitely improve look of the home pack but still think NZ will win by 10-12 points.

Agreed and if the Kiwis have a weakness, its got to be the lineout. Shaw should give them pause for thought in that respect. That AB team is pretty close to full strength though...

thomond2006

The NZ lineout has been awful this year.

Hore's throwing is erratic at best and Brad Thorn at 6'3" doesn't give them a good lineout option (he's in there for his loose play).

To be fair, Martin Johnson has made some improvements to the team. The reintroduction of Shaw is huge, if he can repeat his Lions test form.

Worsley will tackle his heart out but they lose a lot of pace without Croft.

Cueto is a dependable FB and the ace finisher is on the wing.

The centre partnership of Erinle and Hipkiss will be wiped off the field by Nonu and Smith. Johnson should give Geragthy more of a chance to prove himself, should not have been dropped.

Is Cory Jane injured?

England will give 100% but the ABs should cruise it.

twinytwo

tbh england are done... it will prob be jonnys kicking that keeps them in it... i mean when you have 2 very average centres playing and 2 of the worlds worst wingers what chance do you really have against the abs... god what englind would give for the likes of lewesy and robinson back

Stev_o

What id give to see Brian Ashton back. Anywho i actually hope England do well BUT having had to support the Erinle Hipkiss axis with Leicester last year i can honestly say that backline will do nothing but bosh up all day.

little173

It looks a pretty weak England Team. Jw will keep them in it for a fair while and I think their back row is pretty solid, Moody is in especially good form. They will kick A LOT! and try to presure the NZ lineout, not having Kennedy is a poor selection in my opinion he could have really attacked the lineout and JW could have kept kicking the corners.

The AB's are not as good as they were this time last year and werent amazing aganist Wales but they will have way to much class in the backs and 10-12 points win is prob the right call here.

corny

Apart from Wilko that has to be the worst English backline ever. Their forwards might keep them in it for a while but can't see anything other than a convincing NZ win. By 20.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

The NZ lineout has been awful this year.

Hore's throwing is erratic at best and Brad Thorn at 6'3" doesn't give them a good lineout option (he's in there for his loose play).
quote]

What Brad Thorn have you been watching and what exactly do you mean by loose play?

Agree with you that the AB's will win at a canter

OldJay

thomond2006 wrote: »

The NZ lineout has been awful this year.

Hore's throwing is erratic at best and Brad Thorn at 6'3" doesn't give them a good lineout option (he's in there for his loose play

Brad Thorn is not 6"3.
He is 6"5 and is absolutely huge (I've met him).

corny

corny wrote: »

Apart from Wilko that has to be the worst English backline ever. Their forwards might keep them in it for a while but can't see anything other than a convincing NZ win. By 20.

Its clearly an exercise of damage limitation. It was openly admitted that the main reason Enrinle (sp?) was picked was to stop Nonu & co. 10-man rugby all the way from England. Its the only thing Johnson knows.

thomond2006

Justind wrote: »

Brad Thorn is not 6"3.
He is 6"5 and is absolutely huge (I've met him).

OK

Judgement Day

thomond2006 wrote: »

OK

According to www.allblacks.com Brad Thorn is 1.96 metres = 6.43045 feet.

Chucky the tree

twinytwo wrote: »

2 of the worlds worst wingers what chance do you really have against the abs.

:rolleyes: Yes, a lions player is cleary one of the worst wingers in the world.

legal eagle 1

Quick question, does anyone know if this game is been shown on RTE or BBC???

anonymous_joe

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Quick question, does anyone know if this game is been shown on RTE or BBC???

England games tend to be Sky Sports sadly.

legal eagle 1

I thought that alright Haven't got to see a match with Wilkinson playing all year.......not impressed

handsomecake

thomond2006 wrote: »

The NZ lineout has been awful this year.

Hore's throwing is erratic at best and Brad Thorn at 6'3" doesn't give them a good lineout option (he's in there for his loose play).

To be fair, Martin Johnson has made some improvements to the team. The reintroduction of Shaw is huge, if he can repeat his Lions test form.

Worsley will tackle his heart out but they lose a lot of pace without Croft.

Cueto is a dependable FB and the ace finisher is on the wing.

The centre partnership of Erinle and Hipkiss will be wiped off the field by Nonu and Smith. Johnson should give Geragthy more of a chance to prove himself, should not have been dropped.

Is Cory Jane injured?

England will give 100% but the ABs should cruise it.

not an issue really. mccaw,thomson and read will be jumping in the lineout more then thorn

Spore

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

I thought that alright Haven't got to see a match with Wilkinson playing all year.......not impressed

You got the internets so check out the streams link

Spore

3-0 to Eng at the mo. But Carter's taking a peno...

Spore

3-3.

Spore

Wilko peno. 6-3

Spore

England just about holding their own in this game. 6-6 at the mo. Erinle playing well.

Spore

Carter proves he's human by missing a straight forward kick at goal

DBraithwaite

You feel NZ have another couple of gears to up.

DBraithwaite

Anyone up for England?

Spore

Yeah, they're making a lot of breaks and had a disallowed try. Whereas England have rarely ventured into their twenty two.

DBraithwaite

Half time 6-6

Spore

Halftime. 6-6. Expect NZ to pull it out of the bag. Eng defending well and trying to be inventive through Erinle who's having a great debut. Wilkinson having a good game also.

DBraithwaite

Spore wrote: »

Halftime. 6-6. Expect NZ to pull it out of the bag. Eng defending well and trying to be inventive through Erinle who's having a great debut. Wilkinson having a good game also.

Are you sure its only his first cap?

Stev_o

DBraithwaite wrote: »

Are you sure its only his first cap?

It's his first start.

DBraithwaite

Stev_o wrote: »

It's his first start.

Oh right, i wouldnt rate him that highly but he's having a good game today.

Spore

Eng good attacking platfrom ruined by a crooked throw

Spore

9-6 to NZ

Spore

Thompson on for Hartely.

DBraithwaite

Moody the pick of the English

Spore

Wilkinson stops a certain try by hitting the ball in the tackle. Scrum Eng

Spore

England very poor handling skills. Banahan is not International quality at all

DBraithwaite

Spore wrote: »

England very poor handling skills. Banahan is not International quality at all

All he is, is a battering ram that is only effective at club level.

Spore

What a mess. Eng gilt edged chance to get motoring but indecision and lack of support ruins the play

cruiserweight

Try for New Zealand, well deserved, New Zealand not at their best but still better than England

DBraithwaite

Cowen try 57 mins good team effort

Spore

New Zealand try, finally. Fully derserved, Banahan fails to hold Sivivatu in the tackle and Cowan gets the offload to score in the corner. England's negative rugby is just irritating to watch. No invention, relying on countering opposition play and living off penos

DBraithwaite

Try converted

Spore

Lets see what Eng can do from a five meter lineout. Turning down the pop at goal, c'mon!

Spore

Scrum Eng.

cruiserweight

Spore wrote: »

Lets see what Eng can do from a five meter lineout. Turning down the pop at goal, c'mon!

Get a 5 metre scrum and go for a drop goal because nothing was on and Wilkinson misses

Spore

Wilkinson doesn't trust his outside players and goes for the dg - typifies their play. Bloody rubbish

Stev_o

Spore wrote: »

England very poor handling skills. Banahan is not International quality at all

He's a brilliant defender.

DBraithwaite

England in good attacking position 10 metres from NZ line, quick ball and Wilkinson goes for drop kick and misses