aggressive cattle

pinc

Hi,
I was helping out on my fathers' farm today spreading straw in the cattles shed when one of the cows went for me .She had been grazing on the silage between the slatted sheds and suddenly ambled over ,through the gate and into the shed and went for me .I had my 5yr old with me.It was very scary.

On another recent occasion I was helping to herd cattle out of a field into shed and one of the yearlings went for me as I was trying to head him off towards the gate.
Hope I have explained myself.
What the hell is going on?I want my son to have the farm experience -I loved it as a child but for fu%%ks sake it nearly killed us.
I've rambled the fields often with my son but now I feel i can't which is such a pity.
Any insights?

pakalasa

It's been debated here on loads of posts, but the main reasons are as follows;

- genetics, a lot more continental breeding now, certain breeds are known for their aggression, limousin, saler etc
- suckling rather than hand reared. Sucklers have a lot less human contact when they are young so see us more as a threat. If the cow has been suckled too, she will teach the calf to be more agressive. Gone are the days of the hand-reared calves (beef calves anyway)
- less human contact in general. I've seen old photos where farmers milked cows out in the middle of the field. Try that with a wild limousin.:D

whelan1

we had a problem last year with our bulls when they had been fed maize it drove them mad :mad: they would go for you in a shot , what are your animals being fed

pakalasa

..maize, it drives people mad aswell.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/8542jl82320m6h22/

whelan1

so thats whats wrong with me:eek:

dbyrne

I remember shooting out in Kilcock as an early teen and we were crossing through the fields. Some fields had cows, and some didnt. I was amazed how curious the cows got as they got nearer and nearer too us as we criss crossed form field to field. Eventually they got a bit too close and too friendly, to use the word, and started swinging bags at them to back off. I though 1 or 2 were going to get shot, we high tailed it out of there.

Then a few years later I remember watching something and they were talking about how cows are going wild as they have lack of human contact as then are no longer hand fed, milked by hand etc as machines do this now on most farms. They said it was becoming a serious problem

Its like a dog, if you it gets to do what it wants to do when it wants and has no human contact it will go wild. I presume most animals are the same...

pinc I would be very carefull about being around this herd. Im a citybloke and know very little but I still wouldnt take 1 chance with my child... not 1 chance.

bbam

pinc wrote: »

.I had my 5yr old with me.It was very scary.

I too like my girls to have farming experience but never bring them out when there is any work going on.. I bring them for a ramble in the field or the occasional spin on the tractor.
It's not what you want to hear but a working farm is a dangerous place for a 5 year old to be. I worked on a farm where a four year old was killed and it's something no one wants to think of..

I'd recommend keeping your son out of the way of the work until he's a bit older.

westwicklow

pinc wrote: »

one of the cows went for me .She had been grazing on the silage between the slatted sheds and suddenly ambled over ,through the gate and into the shed and went for me.

one of the yearlings went for me as I was trying to head him off towards the gate.

What the hell is going on?I want my son to have the farm experience -I loved it as a child but for fu%%ks sake it nearly killed us.

Could the cow have been protecting a young calf?

Perhaps you were not the problem but the physical size of your son may have been new to the cow (don't laaaaaugh, it happens!) and spooked her?

As for one of the yearling calves going for you.... well, what a matador you are.... yearling!!!!! And it nearly "killed" you? Sorry for laughing soooooooo much but maybe you are just not "cut out" for this type of work and by the sounds of it, the animals already know this!!

mossfort

usually cows will be frightened when they encounter strangers but if you have a very agressive animal the best place for them is the factory.
if you are used to handling them you will be able to work around them.

snowman707

westwicklow wrote: »

Could the cow have been protecting a young calf?

Perhaps you were not the problem but the physical size of your son may have been new to the cow (don't laaaaaugh, it happens!) and spooked her?

As for one of the yearling calves going for you.... well, what a matador you are.... yearling!!!!! And it nearly "killed" you? Sorry for laughing soooooooo much but maybe you are just not "cut out" for this type of work and by the sounds of it, the animals already know this!!

I am not a coward, am well over 6 foot & played in the front row, but I met 2 "yearlings" that I would not face alone

one was a fr bull a neighbour was feeding for sale, about 13 months old when he went wicked and the other was a BB/LM X bull we were feeding for a show sale,11 months old & faced me one day I filling the creep feeder

this year we are feeding our January born FR and MOX bulls for slaughter, they were just beginning to show aggression when we housed them 3 weeks ago, 10 months old , they will be well over 500kgs at 12 months , would toss a human like a rag doll

Don't know what all the laughting is about? but you are really showing your ignorance regarding your knowledge of how dangerous stock can be.

westwicklow

As mossford said, "if you are used to handling them you will be able to work around them" as I have safely done for many decades. It's all in the approach eh?

cartonj

It goes without saying that you should never trust any animal no matter how quiet they seem. I've been working with cattle for years and thats the one thing I've learned.
Personally you should always have a good stick with you and your child should be out of harms way behind a barrier or whatever.

I know loads of people will say that they've been handling animals for years and don't need a stick or can read signs. Well thats all well and good until the one day that you're sent flying across the yard or pinned to a wall.

pakalasa

I think though that a lot of non-farmers do confuse simple curiousity with agression.
Still in recent years I won't go into the field where the sucklers are without a stick, just because of one particular cow I have. She will even charge from 100 yds after she calves. It does help to know your cattle alright.
I was in Ennis mart recently and I was watching the bulls been sold. One red limousin, about 700Kgs was doing his best to get the drover. The drover was well aware of him, opening the gates and then stepping out behind another to get well out of the way. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt in the marts handling these bulls.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

I think though that a lot of non-farmers do confuse simple curiousity with agression.
Still in recent years I won't go into the field where the sucklers are without a stick, just because of one particular cow I have. She will even charge from 100 yds after she calves. It does help to know your cattle alright.
I was in Ennis mart recently and I was watching the bulls been sold. One red limousin, about 700Kgs was doing his best to get the drover. The drover was well aware of him, opening the gates and then stepping out behind another to get well out of the way. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt in the marts handling these bulls.

true the mart is a dangerous place to work and they should come up with an automated way of moving them out of the ring as you often see the drover diving behind his little gate..that said I have often seen them in Ennis belting the ****e outta cattle my own included and find it a bit annoying to see

whelan1

i think alot of workers in marts have no idea how to handle cattle and use the stick too hard too often

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

i think alot of workers in marts have no idea how to handle cattle and use the stick too hard too often

Indeed... I know one or two I'd like to see getting a few licks of the stick and see how reasonable they'd be afterwards.

westwicklow

Whatever about sticks, which I disagree with anyway, giving a beast a few lashes of a length of "wavin pipe" seems worse, be it on the nose, eyes, back, body or wherever. I'm against the agression people take out on cattle, perhaps it makes them feel better or powerful but does it really take that sort of behaviour to handle animals? Usually not.

DanFindy

westwicklow wrote: »

Whatever about sticks, which I disagree with anyway, giving a beast a few lashes of a length of "wavin pipe" seems worse, be it on the nose, eyes, back, body or wherever. I'm against the agression people take out on cattle, perhaps it makes them feel better or powerful but does it really take that sort of behaviour to handle animals? Usually not.

Well how to you propose separating a pen of bulls tell me....talk nicely to them ie 'come on bully bully you go over there and your friend stand beside me and he will then walk quietly onto a trailer'....ah cop on man !some people are over the top certainly but i have a stick used correctly and without undue force is the ONLY way of dealing with these bulls most time as its bloody dangerous in the first place

whelan1

agree totally its just that the guys in the mart are totally ott with the sticks imo

djmc

Id agree you need a stick for handling cattle even the sight of a twig or something that looks like a stick they will act different and be easy to handle
I dont think all marts are that bad but if you see one that is you could report it to the ISPCA and they might go in and stand by the ring for a few hours.

westwicklow

DanFindy wrote: »

Well how to you propose separating a pen of bulls tell me....talk nicely to them ie 'come on bully bully you go over there and your friend stand beside me and he will then walk quietly onto a trailer'....ah cop on man !some people are over the top certainly but i have a stick used correctly and without undue force is the ONLY way of dealing with these bulls most time as its bloody dangerous in the first place

What do you mean for me to cop on? Don't try that attitude on me friend.
As you said yourself, a stick used correctly is very effective. That's not in dispute here.

pakalasa

In defense of Ennis Mart anyway, I gotta say that the staff there are top notch.
There recently, I even saw one of the youger guys putting a tag on a cow in a pen for a very old farmer.
Cattle have skins of leather anyway so a tap with a stick, they don't even feel it. I've seen the other extreme too, gob****es beating cattle full force. It's always the older farmers that complain about it most too. Can't beat experience.

DanFindy

westwicklow wrote: »

What do you mean for me to cop on? Don't try that attitude on me friend.
As you said yourself, a stick used correctly is very effective. That's not in dispute here.

It was the whole point of yor post about usin 'wavin' etc, didnt mean to offend but do you deal with pens of 30 bulls etc? if u do without a stick fair play t ya but if not and u can suggest another viable solution im all ears

greysides

Getting back to the OP.
As said previously I think The presence of a child can incite an aggressive attitude. I don't know why but I've seen it several times.

One other thing that can cause aggression that's not been mentioned is disease....Grass tetany, Redwater, severe pneumonia and Cystic ovaries where the cow becomes bull-like.
There may be others but these are the ones I've seen.

westwicklow

That's a very good and valid point greysides!

DanFindy

greysides wrote: »

Getting back to the OP.
As said previously I think The presence of a child can incite an aggressive attitude. I don't know why but I've seen it several times.

One other thing that can cause aggression that's not been mentioned is disease....Grass tetany, Redwater, severe pneumonia and Cystic ovaries where the cow becomes bull-like.
There may be others but these are the ones I've seen.

Very true, diseases which affect the nervous system can cause aggression, Listeriosis, regwort poisoning, tetanus, lead poisoning, nitrate poisoning and CCN. Some of these are quite debilitating so the agression is more obvious in the early stages !

yessam

I have some suckler cows and never experience much trouble when i am working with them myself, but i would always be carefull with freshly calved cows. I have noticed normally calm cows get excited when a stranger would come in around the yard. I have also noticed cows get frightened of small children, I think children frighten them as they are not used to that size of person and they get the same fear as if it were a dog. It is mostly about protecting there calf. A freshly calved would attack the most vicous dog, its parental instincts. My advice is never let a child out alone where there are suckler cows and always carry a stick yourself.
The problem can be worse with Bulls - he thinks he is protecting the heard.
ALWAYS BEWARE OF LIVESTOCK

adne

whats the story with Salers.... are the as mad as people say??

yessam

look. 99% of cattle will be ok if you are hearding every day. often i find if i have a few wilder cattle than, i get them into the habit of coming to me for a few nuts. its amazing how you will quieten the wildest of cattle (limousine, salers, charolais etc.) and if this is not working i suggest you get a new home for them when you catch them.. just be carefull where there are cows and young calves or where there is a bull especially in august or september.

Tableman

I really dont understand how Limousins have such a bad reputation. I have never seemed to have limosuins who are any more aggressive than other breeds.

You gotta approach your cattle every day. That'll help a lot.

djmc

adne wrote: »

whats the story with Salers.... are the as mad as people say??

I have owned some very quite salers and my brother has some that are pure pets its all down to how they are reared like any cattle

yessam

I agree 100% Tableman. I have been keeping Limousines for years also and had very little problems when handled properly. Limousines will be the most giddy when a farmer heards once a week on a ATV. All cattle need to be handled properly and carefully

pinc

OP here. thanks for all the input,even if it did sway off topic it's still interesting. My father has been using the quad more (for health reasons) so I spose the human /cattle interaction has changed.
I will definitely be keeping the kid out of the equation unless there is a substantial barrier between them.. I need/want to help out more as much as I can but 'safety first'.
I spose I am nostalgic for the days ( and I'm not that ancient:eek:)when we kids used to go with the dog and bring in the milkers. We were allowed to ride on their backs into the dairy.I still remember the smells and the textures!!
I know it's completely different with beef cattle, but it taught me respect for animals and that is all I wanted to teach my son.
Thanks all

bbam

pinc wrote: »

We were allowed to ride on their backs into the dairy.I still remember the smells and the textures!!

I was lucky enough a few years ago to hand feed some jiraffes and the first thing I noticed was that they smelled just like cows... I was quite shocked

greysides

Limousin cattle have changed a lot. The effort the breed society has put into taming them has paid off. I've noticed Limousins are generally a lit quieter now than they were before. Some are still no angels but the change is being effected from the male side of the coin so the older cows bred from the old type bulls are still in suckler herds and they keep the legend alive.;)

In the recent past the stories of wild cattle usually had the word 'West' somewhere in the narrative. This is no longer the case. The celtic tiger farce which saw farmers and farmers sons leave to work outside the farm can be held somewhat responsible. Animals have been effectively left on an 'easy-care' system and the crows have come home to roost.
The quad has been an essential tool in keeping older gentlemen in the game while the younger help is away. Many people would be lost without it but, in conjunction with the 4wd and 'over the horizon' herding, has contributed to the change on farms that don't necessarily have Limousin stock. Even the typical pet Friesian cow, retired into suckling duties after the parlour was moth-balled, can turn wild and nervey surprisingly quickly once human contact is limited.

These are the times we live in

With many crushes around the country now in need of replacement- they were all put up in the same era- the replacement may be planned with new realities in mind.

If you are handling infrequently, for your own safety and theirs, you need facilities that are fit for pupose. What you could get away with before will get you hurt/killed now.

Darwin will decide the outcome.:)

pakalasa

Geysides, I asked you this before and I ask again - Are you a Vet?
It's starting to bug me now.
Come on , poor crushes, wild cattle, knowledge of wormers etc....:rolleyes:

westwicklow

pakalasa wrote: »

Geysides, I asked you this before and I ask again - Are you a Vet?
It's starting to bug me now.
Come on , poor crushes, wild cattle, knowledge of wormers etc....:rolleyes:

Now it's bugging us all

greysides