question on rest interval duration between sets of 1-3reps

ceoexec2

i am currently allowing 5mins rest between sets of 1-3reps and performing 13-15 total sets per workout. i find this drags out the workout to about 2hrs duration.

is this counter productive? i have read that workouts over 1hr duration break down muscle due to cortisol production

how many minutes rest do members here take between sets of 1-3reps

how many sets of 1-3reps do members do per workout

thanks

corkcomp

ceoexec2 wrote: »

i am currently allowing 5mins rest between sets of 1-3reps and performing 13-15 total sets per workout. i find this drags out the workout to about 2hrs duration.

is this counter productive? i have read that workouts over 1hr duration break down muscle due to cortisol production

how many minutes rest do members here take between sets of 1-3reps

how many sets of 1-3reps do members do per workout

thanks

firstly, what are your goals? Why are you letting 5 minutes rest for sets of low reps? a minute should be plenty rest, if you find you are unable to manage more than 5 or 6 sets, then thats not a prob if you lifting close to failure?

Colm_OReilly

Seems an awful lot of worksets alright.

ceoexec2

"Why are you letting 5 minutes rest for sets of low reps? a minute should be plenty rest,"
because they are max effort sets



"if you find you are unable to manage more than 5 or 6 sets, then thats not a prob if you lifting close to failure?"
i dont know what you mean by this


"Seems an awful lot of worksets alright"
how is 13-15 sets per workout a lot of work sets?

justsomebloke

ceoexec2 wrote: »

i am currently allowing 5mins rest between sets of 1-3reps and performing 13-15 total sets per workout. i find this drags out the workout to about 2hrs duration.

is this counter productive? i have read that workouts over 1hr duration break down muscle due to cortisol production

how many minutes rest do members here take between sets of 1-3reps

how many sets of 1-3reps do members do per workout

thanks

Can you just give an example of your routine. I think rather then doing to many worksets in one workout that you are doing to many different exercises in the 1-3 rep range

Roper

Are you doing 13-15 sets of lots of different movements, is that what you mean?

ceoexec2

4-5exercises by 3-4sets x 3reps with 5mins between sets
i normally manage 13-15total sets per workout in about 1.5-2hrs including warm up of 20mins

i didnt mean 13-15sets per exercise, i thought that was obvious

a 5x5 system has 25 total sets per workout so i dont know how 13-15sets can be considered excessive. assuming 5mins rest was taken for each set and before the next exercise a 5x5 routine would take 115mins or almost 2hrs not including warm up


Factors Affecting the Length of the Rest Interval Between Resistance Exercise Sets | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

corkcomp

ceoexec2 wrote: »

4-5exercises by 3-4sets x 3reps with 5mins between sets
i normally manage 13-15total sets per workout in about 1.5-2hrs including warm up of 20mins

i didnt mean 13-15sets per exercise, i thought that was obvious

a 5x5 system has 25 total sets per workout so i dont know how 13-15sets can be considered excessive. assuming 5mins rest was taken for each set and before the next exercise a 5x5 routine would take 115mins or almost 2hrs not including warm up


Factors Affecting the Length of the Rest Interval Between Resistance Exercise Sets | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

what are your goals?

13 - 15 sets in total is not excessive, but what split are you using (i.e. how many sets per body part), if you are going to take 5 mins rest between sets then you will end up with 2 hr workouts, simple as ..

on and btw, lose the attitude, people are responding to your post to help you out! it was not at all obvious that you meant 13 - 15 sets in total, rather then per exercise .

ceoexec2

i appreciate all the help but its frustrating to have to keep repeating my question
"i am currently allowing 5mins rest between sets of 1-3reps and performing 13-15 total sets per workout"

my goal is to increase max strength. some days i reduce load for some hypertrophy training and a break from the routine but max strength is my main goal.

the problem with 1-3rep training is that when rest is reduced lifts can fail and thats possibly dangerous with the big lifts especially.

thats why im wondering how programs like 5x5 6x4 8x3 etc can be completed without workouts extending to 2+hours duration and therefore becoming counter productive. i thought people on here would have an opinion on it as its an informative forum

corkcomp

ceoexec2 wrote: »

i appreciate all the help but its frustrating to have to keep repeating my question
"i am currently allowing 5mins rest between sets of 1-3reps and performing 13-15 total sets per workout"

my goal is to increase max strength. some days i reduce load for some hypertrophy training and a break from the routine but max strength is my main goal.

the problem with 1-3rep training is that when rest is reduced lifts can fail and thats possibly dangerous with the big lifts especially.

thats why im wondering how programs like 5x5 6x4 8x3 etc can be completed without workouts extending to 2+hours duration and therefore becoming counter productive. i thought people on here would have an opinion on it as its an informative forum

opinions may vary but if you really NEED a full five minutes before being able to perform the lift again, then maybe the weight should be reduced. It all depends on how much time you have to devote to the gym, the bottom line is you need a lot of time if you are going to keep 5 minute rest times .. what about supersets, i.e. 3 reps on one body part, 30 sec rest and onto another body part?

the reason 5 * 5 can be completed in under two hours is that most people take around a minute between sets !

rubadub

ceoexec2 wrote: »

i didnt mean 13-15sets per exercise, i thought that was obvious

It was not obvious, I thought the same as the others since in your original post you never said how many exercises you did, it is more common for people to list reps & sets per exercise, and seeing as you took 2 hours and did not mention your own break time I though 13 sets was feasible.

The break will depend on goals, for hyertrophy I hear 1min is good, but they would increase reps for hypertrophy.

Roper

Don't get frustrated, it just sounded like you were doing something idiotic. You're not, you're just doing something less effective.

I'd rest for 2-3 minutes between sets for strength. Enough for recovery but not so much as you'll fall asleep.

I'd break down the sets like this:
(bench for example)
2 sets of 8 moderate weight
5 sets of 3-5 heavyish to heavy
some assistance work, abs, guns whatever.
next exercise same idea.

ceoexec2

"the reason 5 * 5 can be completed in under two hours is that most people take around a minute between sets !"

if they do they must be sacrificing strength as reps could never be completed unless lowering the weight. i thought 5x5 placed more emphasis on strength than size. i thought 3x8 might be more suitable to size

rubadub

ceoexec2 wrote: »

if they do they must be sacrificing strength as reps could never be completed unless lowering the weight.

you could similarly say -you must be sacrificing "results/goals" as reps could never be completed in under 1 hour at those high weights.

All about balance I suppose.

ceoexec2

Roper, how much rest would you allow for Squats and Deadlift and how many sets of each per workout

flywheel

ceoexec2 wrote: »

how many minutes rest do members here take between sets

if you are training closer to your 1RM lifting weight the number of reps you do will be lower and your rest time will be higher (it sounded like you are focusing on Strenght as a goal?) as you'd need time to replenish your ATP stores after such a high intensity effort and ensure you have enough available to perform the next set...

have a quick read of these two extracts from Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning Baechle and Earle which may be of interest:

Energy Production and Capacity

Rest Periods

so they are giving a range of 2-5mins for Strength training... the rest time in that range will depend on how close you are to your 1RM and how many reps you are doing... there are lots of other factors to consider too: you, training intensity, how rested / stressed you are, nutrition plan, etc...

main thing to take away is that it is good to have a guide but you are an individual so work around the general thresholds to get something that suits you specifically

Roper

ceoexec2 wrote: »

Roper, how much rest would you allow for Squats and Deadlift and how many sets of each per workout

You need to divide your warm up/prep sets from your work sets first. At IP for strength we'll do two sets of 8 as a warm up then 3-5X3-5. The two sets of 8 at the start I don't give a **** I just lift them and rest however long it takes me to load the bar or however long it takes my training partner to lift them if I'm doing it with someone. The work sets I take as long as I need, but usually try to keep them under 3 minutes.

As for the rep range 1-3, that's not a strength building range that's a testing range. Some might have got strong doing sets of one all the time, but plenty have got injured. Just stick to 5 sets of 5 and for the last set, if you struggle to get 3 or 4 you've probably selected a good weight and have done a good strength session.

justsomebloke

I'd still like to see a typical days training if possible as from the sound of it I think you are doing too many exercise in your sessions in the 1-3 rep range. I would probably target 2 lifts per day max that I want to go extremely heavy on and then the other assistance work wouldn't be as much balls to the walls working close to your 1RM this should also help reduce the amount of time a session takes.

but ye sessions can just drag on when you are working for strength so just make sure your diet is spot on and that if needed you are taking in energy during your session if they are going to drag on.

Other then that 5 mins shouldn't be set in stone, yes between some sets you will have to leave up to 5 mins but for others you should be able to get back under the bar earlier if you think you are ready

kevpants

Ok firstly all the advice of taking 1mins rest between sets of 1-3 reps is ridiculous.

Low reps per set does not mean he is working close to his max all the time. The rest period is more linked to the intensity of the set. If you are doing several above 90% (of your 1 rep max) singles in a set then you should take as long as you need to recover. Don't even time it. High intensity requires high rest.

If your singles, doubles and triples are submaximal but performed for multiple sets, therefore high in volume and low in intensity then you can set yourself a two minute(ish) limit for rest if you want.

I wouldn't agree that lifting max singles are for testing. That's a catch all statement that is as wrong as saying light weights for 100's of reps is for muscle building.

What I'd be concerned with here is that you are either going for 100% intensity on every exercise in every session which is madness. You seem to have taken the mantra of low heavy reps for strength and taken it to the extreme.

To sum up, I don't think the rest periods are of concern, I think you might need to take a look at what rep ranges etc you're working with though. I'd like to see a weeks layout of training.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

Low reps per set does not mean he is working close to his max all the time. The rest period is more linked to the intensity of the set. If you are doing several above 90% (of your 1 rep max) singles in a set then you should take as long as you need to recover. Don't even time it. High intensity requires high rest.

You're contradicting yourself. I'm reading that as "low reps doesn't mean he's close to his max, but he's doing close to his max so he should rest longer." Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what it seems like you're saying.

If your singles, doubles and triples are submaximal but performed for multiple sets, therefore high in volume and low in intensity then you can set yourself a two minute(ish) limit for rest if you want.

I thought we established he was going heavy?

I wouldn't agree that lifting max singles are for testing. That's a catch all statement that is as wrong as saying light weights for 100's of reps is for muscle building.

Why else would you use them other than to see what you can lift? Or for a bit of craic (I've done it for that). You're returns will diminish with that method pretty quickly.

To sum up, I don't think the rest periods are of concern, I think you might need to take a look at what rep ranges etc you're working with though. I'd like to see a weeks layout of training.

I don't care abou them either and I actually think people think this stuff through far too much. Rest until you feel like you'd like to lift some more.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself. I'm reading that as "low reps doesn't mean he's close to his max, but he's doing close to his max so he should rest longer." Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what it seems like you're saying.

That is what I'm saying. If he's going heavy he needs to rest. A single or double doesn't have to be 95%. You can do multiple low rep sets that are nowhere near failure. If that's what he's doing then he can push the rest periods a bit.

Roper wrote: »

I thought we established he was going heavy?

Did we? Sorry I was operating on the fact that he was doing singles but wasn't sure of the %'s. I suspected he was going heavy all the time but I didn't assume it.

Roper wrote: »

Why else would you use them other than to see what you can lift? Or for a bit of craic (I've done it for that). You're returns will diminish with that method pretty quickly.

Ahh no I don't think they're just for testing and craic. If you cycle it right and don't just make every bench or squat workout a new 1 rep PR attempt ad infinitum you can really make progress. Straining under a heavy single isn't just an exercise in burning out no matter how fashionable it is to say that right now.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

That is what I'm saying. If he's going heavy he needs to rest. A single or double doesn't have to be 95%. You can do multiple low rep sets that are nowhere near failure. If that's what he's doing then he can push the rest periods a bit.

Then we're talking about two different things.

Did we? Sorry I was operating on the fact that he was doing singles but wasn't sure of the %'s. I suspected he was going heavy all the time but I didn't assume it.

Well, you know to assume makes an as out of... sume.

Ahh no I don't think they're just for testing and craic. If you cycle it right and don't just make every bench or squat workout a new 1 rep PR attempt ad infinitum you can really make progress. Straining under a heavy single isn't just an exercise in burning out no matter how fashionable it is to say that right now.

Yeah okay but if he's here asking how much rest he needs I think it's safe to assume he's not going to be cycling his max effort lifts. Walk around your gym tonight and watch how many failed lifts you see. They're all going balls to the wall for very little progress. It's easy to assume everyone has the same lifting knowledge as you but it's simply not the case and most people should keep their max for max day.

I actually didn't know it was fashionable to say that. I thought we were still living in the Ferrugia inspired high intensity era? No? Maybe I'm missing something.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

Yeah okay but if he's here asking how much rest he needs I think it's safe to assume he's not going to be cycling his max effort lifts. Walk around your gym tonight and watch how many failed lifts you see. They're all going balls to the wall for very little progress. It's easy to assume everyone has the same lifting knowledge as you but it's simply not the case and most people should keep their max for max day.

I actually didn't know it was fashionable to say that. I thought we were still living in the Ferrugia inspired high intensity era? No? Maybe I'm missing something.

Yeah but you never know. He seems to have done some research so maybe he's not going balls to the wall.

Intensity is so 2007 Roper. If you're not doing 9 or Dogshit you're not at the races.

ceoexec2

ill ask the question another way.

what is the maximum length a strength workout should take including warm up. e.g 5x5system or rippetoes starting strength program

is there anything in the claim that working out longer than 1hr inhibits gains due to cortisol production

kevpants

ceoexec2 wrote: »

ill ask the question another way.

what is the maximum length a strength workout should take including warm up. e.g 5x5system or rippetoes starting strength program

is there anything in the claim that working out longer than 1hr inhibits gains due to cortisol production

The cortisol thing is crap. Absolute crap.

How long should the workout last? 2 hrs 3 times a week is too much for me. I try and aim for an hour but with warmups and stuff it's generally 90 mins.

I'd think more about the impact on your life than your muscle mass when it comes to length of session.

InKonspikuou2

ceoexec2 wrote: »

ill ask the question another way.

what is the maximum length a strength workout should take including warm up. e.g 5x5system or rippetoes starting strength program

is there anything in the claim that working out longer than 1hr inhibits gains due to cortisol production

I'm on an alternating strength/hypertrophy training workout at the moment where i switch programs every 4 weeks. One is a 4 day high intensity split with pre-exhausts and triple drop sets and the other is a 3 day split focusing on the major compound movements.

With the first one for hypertrophy i reckon it's around 3 minutes rest in between sets. With the strength one it's around 2-3 minutes rest. I don't time it but i reckon i'm usually good to go again in the above times.

Also regarding the 5x5 approach. Most people usually don't manage to get the 5x5 in the early stages. It might go a little something like this,

1 5x100kg
2 4x100kg
3 3x100kg
4 3x100kg
5 2x100kg

So as you gain in strength the rest periods should change. I know they did for me and most people i've talked to on a similar program. That is if you have selected the correct weight. Once i manage the 5x5 i increase the resistance. I think i've rarely needed 5 minutes rest and that was a long time ago. So maybe you are using too heavy a weight if you feel you need 5 minutes rest or doing too many exercises. Without knowing your split it's hard to tell.

As for the length of time for my workouts. Around 10 minutes warm up and 40-50 minutes work out.

Brian?

Roper wrote: »

You need to divide your warm up/prep sets from your work sets first. At IP for strength we'll do two sets of 8 as a warm up then 3-5X3-5. The two sets of 8 at the start I don't give a **** I just lift them and rest however long it takes me to load the bar or however long it takes my training partner to lift them if I'm doing it with someone. The work sets I take as long as I need, but usually try to keep them under 3 minutes.

.

Roper, can I ask a quick question on that method? The 2 sets of 8 you do, are they at a certain % of your 1RM or is it simply 1 set at a really light weight and then 1 set at a slightly higher weight to warm up?

I've always done somthing similar on deadlifts and squat, except I've do 1x15 easy reps then 1x8-10 with a weight I could get an estimated 12 reps on, then 3x5.

Edwardius

ceoexec2 wrote: »

ill ask the question another way.

what is the maximum length a strength workout should take including warm up. e.g 5x5system or rippetoes starting strength program

is there anything in the claim that working out longer than 1hr inhibits gains due to cortisol production

the "maximum length a strength workout should take including warm up. e.g 5x5system or rippetoes starting strength program" has little to do with your idea of cortisol production. if you're doing SS or 5x5 your total workout time is only as long as it takes you to lift the weights. A set of 5 on a big lift takes less than a minute to do. your total workset time will be less than 10 minutes not including recovery time. The whole cortisol idea is to do with long sustained efforts... it's not like your endocrine system recognises the fact that you clocked into the gym at 2pm and when 3pm comes, it starts releasing the catabollox hormones. Your workout will take as long as it takes to recover from your sets. If you start wasting away, do something different...

Roper

briankeating wrote: »

Roper, can I ask a quick question on that method? The 2 sets of 8 you do, are they at a certain % of your 1RM or is it simply 1 set at a really light weight and then 1 set at a slightly higher weight to warm up?

I've always done somthing similar on deadlifts and squat, except I've do 1x15 easy reps then 1x8-10 with a weight I could get an estimated 12 reps on, then 3x5.

For me it's "it depends". I train most nights as do most of the lads I coach so whether you're tired, sore, fresh, have had a good night's sleep will all have an effect on percentages. I'll always do a set of 20 with the bar when I squat (for example) just to loosen out and then almost always put 40kg on (y'know, the big plates for manliness) for my first set of 8. After that it's anyone's guess. I just don't buy into the % thing anyway. For me if a weight feels lightish, I'll put a bit more on. For the 5 sets of 5, it's a little different.

token

I agree with what kevpants said. 5x5 does take time but you should not be going balls out on 5x5 multiple times a week. OP lay out your entire routine and people may be able to advise you better.