Pistol Licences Refused in Limerick

knockon

Quote:
Originally Posted by knockon
+1

I got the shotgun yesterday. Still awaiting 2 Pistol (9mm and .22) licenses. I called the Chiefs Office yesterday evening. "It is my understanding that you will receive something in the post Tuesday or Wednesday" was the reply. I said good evening and did'nt push as to the contents. I'll let you know tomorrow......


Well the envelope arrived today from Henry St, Limerick. The CS has refused both the .22 and the 9mm...

To say I am disappointed is an understatement. I have of course 2 avenues to choose but for now it all seems just a tad unfair and a little hard to digest.

Kramer

All the CF stuff is being refused but I'm surprised he's refused your 22.

I do know of a few .22 licences that have been granted by that CS - I've actually seen the licences, so .
Still waiting on my restricted stuff.....no doubt they'll arrive tomorrow or soon after......

Cass

Sorry to hear that knockon. We all know the position being taken on CFs but as Kramer said i'm surprised at the .22 refusal. If its not an issue could you tell what make/model of .22 you were licensing? Would be curious as to the reason for refusal. With most CF licenses thay ask the applicant would a .22 not suffice. What could they suggest instead of a .22?

knockon

yea - Its a Sig Mosquito .22.

Reason = "I am not satisfied that good and sufficient reason has been providedand that the firearm is the only type of weapon appropriate for the purpose for which it was sought"

I mean "lift up you feet guys because its hit the fan and flowing everywhere!!!

Cass

So instead of a centre fire, you can have a .22 and instead of a .22 you can have a very specific make/model of .22?

T-Square

What reasons were not good/sufficient?

LB6

http://garda.ie/Documents/User/commissioners%20guidelines%204.pdf

Have a look at Page 41 of the Commissioners Guidelines - that lists the acceptable .22's that will be considered for licencing after 19/11

rrpc

No offence LB6, but that's irrelevant. knockon has had the Sig since before 19/11 and therefore should expect to be considered for a licence.

I would always say to people when they are given that line about the firearm not having been proved to be the only one appropriate for the purpose that they should say: "It's the one I have".

Unless the Chief Superintendent is going to buy them a new one that's more appropriate (in their mind) to the task and licence it, then the only one that can be considered under the act is the one that the applicant owns.

And since there's already a licence for it and he's been using it for the purpose it was sought, then it is appropriate.

They all forget that that section in the firearms act was directed towards new applications. They need to have a good read of section 9 of the 1964 Act as amended by the 2006 and 2009 acts (just to prove it wasn't forgotten).

In the case of a renewal:

Before renewing a firearm certificate, an authorised member shall be of opinion that the conditions to which it is subject have been complied with and will continue to be complied with during the period for which the certificate is renewed.

Grizzly 45

The Cheif Super of Henry st is retiring next month,as per toady's/week Limerick Chonicle...Sooo I is wondering is this the reason..Let Somone Else Deal With It

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The Cheif Super of Henry st is retiring next month,as per toady's/week Limerick Chonicle...Sooo I is wondering is this the reason..Let Somone Else Deal With It

If that were so he wouldn't have to do anything. After three months it's an automatic refusal.

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The Cheif Super of Henry st is retiring next month,as per toady's/week Limerick Chonicle...Sooo I is wondering is this the reason..Let Somone Else Deal With It

jumping ship before his pension is slashed you mean .

Grizzly 45

rrpc wrote: »

If that were so he wouldn't have to do anything. After three months it's an automatic refusal.

Well considering I put mine in Aug27th and havent even recived a confirmation letter on any of them.....

knockon

T-Square wrote: »

What reasons were not good/sufficient?

T - Your guess is as good as mine. My 9mm application and my .22 application were comprehensive and consice. I am going to make an appointment to meet the CS as soon as possible as this chap is is leaving on Nov 24th.

love to shoot

i was also refused my .22 and 9mm and my father was refused his .22. we both had our .22 since 2005 my 9mm 2007 and had no problem til now. any thing to do with our address being limerick. i know lads that got the lot different county.

Darr

Our club has issued instructions to our memeber but if your refused contact nasrpc straight away for advice

knockon

love to shoot wrote: »

i was also refused my .22 and 9mm and my father was refused his .22. we both had our .22 since 2005 my 9mm 2007 and had no problem til now. any thing to do with our address being limerick. i know lads that got the lot different county.

I am surprised that you could even think that having an address in Limerick has any bearing on a CS decision to issue a licence.

knockon

Darr wrote: »

Our club has issued instructions to our memeber but if your refused contact nasrpc straight away for advice

Already done!

Darr

Quote:
Originally Posted by love to shoot
i was also refused my .22 and 9mm and my father was refused his .22. we both had our .22 since 2005 my 9mm 2007 and had no problem til now. any thing to do with our address being limerick. i know lads that got the lot different county.


Originally Posted by love to Knockon
I am surprised that you could even think that having an address in Limerick has any bearing on a CS decision to issue a licence.


have to agree there knockon ,considering they are probably the people mostly like not convinced that limerick is the wild west that the media have the rest of the country thinking .
Darr

LB6

You can't go saying things like that - I'm in Limerick and I got all mine!

love to shoot

dont take it up like i am saying we are all criminals in limerick just that we are in an area that is not inclined to issue certs i know areas that got certs a good while back and i only got refused this week. and when i contacted the NASRPC they said all areas seem to be different and were suprised at the refusal of my .22

dexter2010

I too received a letter from the gardai stating that i have been refused, However the funny thing is that they refused me a gun of which I do not own with a serial number that i do not have, So I suppose that I have not been refused then

dCorbus

I too received a letter from the gardai stating that i have been refused, However the funny thing is that they refused me a gun of which I do not own with a serial number that i do not have, So I suppose that I have not been refused then

Hmmmmm, typical paperwork f-up!:D
Although, I'd have to say: "don't get your hopes up" - Sorry:rolleyes:

Can I ask if you have an application submitted for a firearm you do own with the correct serial number?

My (v. limited) understanding of the law on this is: If you do not recieve an expressed written approval within the statutory 3 month (?) decision period, then the situation is that your application will have been deemed to have been refused by default. (Although, I am totally open to correction on this by those far-more-in-the-know than my humble-self!:D)

Sorry, to "burst your bubble" on this, dexter:o
And I wish you the best of luck with your applications - maybe, just maybe, your "refusal" was meant for someone else (We can but hope). So the best of luck with that.:)

dexter2010

it is a handgun that I have owned for the last two years as I shoot at the midlands range, it was a re-application of sorts, basically. but they have refused me for somebody elses hand gun of different make and serial number. I filled out the form exactly as requested with my current pulse number, Cannot see how they could have got it wrong, I will be seeking legal advise on this

dCorbus

it is a handgun that I have owned for the last two years as I shoot at the midlands range, it was a re-application of sorts, basically. but they have refused me for somebody elses hand gun of different make and serial number. I filled out the form exactly as requested with my current pulse number, Cannot see how they could have got it wrong, I will be seeking legal advise on this

Yep, that's a strange one indeed!

Cannot see how they could have got it wrong

Ah, if only!:D

they have refused me for somebody elses hand gun of different make and serial number. I filled out the form exactly as requested with my current pulse number

Right, so "they" haven't actually refused your own FAC application - what they seem to have done is sent you someone elses refusal, albeit addressed to you. Now, I would be interested to know if the "other applicant" recieved your paperwork?

If you have a good relationship with your F/O or your Super, I would suggest a quick phonecall or popping in to get to the bottom of this.

I would also suggest that you return a copy of the refusal letter to the relevant authorities, pointing out that you have recieved this letter in error and that your application does not relate to the application, firearm, and serial number therein referred to and suggesting (nicely:)) that they re-issue the corrected letter to the actual applicant for the relevant firearm serial number XYZ123.

You will probably then get your correct letter! And keep your fingers crossed!:D

Then, again, I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't go basing your actions on my friendly (and I might add "without prejudice") advice!:D

Best speak with the PTB and your own NGB and get some firm advice on this.

dexter2010

thanks mate,

I am kinda scared to contact them as I fear that letter coming back with with the same message of refusal addressed both to me and my firearm, however i will have to do something soon as i am suffering withdrawal symptoms and miss my weekends out to the range, The wife is starting to enjoy giving me jobs to do. not fair !

dCorbus

yeah dexter, i can see your dilemma.
If you submitted your application recently and are still well within the time period for a decision - then maybe a "wait-and-see" approach for the time being might be wiser.
When it's getting closer to the deadline, and if you still haven't heard anything (positive or negative), then maybe then you should chase it up.

The real problem is that if they meant to refuse the other lads (I know, presumptive and sexist of me:o) application, and meant to grant yours ("which would be nice") - but they don't actually write out to you confirming your grant within the time-period, due to this paperwork cock-up, then you will be deemed to have a refusal, even if they are intending granting you your licence.

Again, I have to say, I am not as aufait with the regs as many many many lads on here and on the range - so: ezridax, bunnyshooter, rrpc, sparks, you-all-know-who-you-are, etc. - your advice is needed!!:D

Hope that's of some help to you and best of luck! Hope all works out in the end in your favour.

rrpc

I'd get back on to them about it. After all somebody else might have a grant letter for your firearm

Wishful thinking I know, but not impossible.

Cass

A refusal is not the end of the road and with your situation it is barely the start. There was much debate here before with regards to the "automatic refusal". It states if an applicant has not recieved a response within the 3 months from receipt of their application they may consider it refused. I have yet to hear of this and to be honest i can only see this possibly happening to new applicants. If someone with a current extension/firearm does not receive any notification they will constantly be ringing to check on their application. So informing the applicant of the status of their application will ease the burden on those arming the phones, but thats only my take on the matter.

dcorbus has covered most bases. Contacting people and talking is always a good start. I found myself in a similar position and done something similar to the following.

Photocopy all correspondence is job number one. The problem i'm having with my license has been squarely placed on the governing authorities shoulders because i could prove everything through paperwork, both originals and copies of originals i had to submit.

Contact your FO. The Super will talk to you but it would go smoother if you use the chain of command and include the FO plus he will have a "feet on the ground" knowledge of you and your application. Explain the situation and enquire as to A) Why you recieved someone else's refusal with their personal details, Where your application is, C) If the other person would have recieved personal details about you and your application, D) Is the incorrect information a printing error or are you down on PULSE as owning/being in possession of this firearm, E) What is the status of your application (as opposed to where, is it passed, etc).

Next i would also contact the FPU (Firearms Policy Unit). Ask their advice and they may also be able to check out your details on PULSE and advise you as to how best to proceed while staying within the confines of the law. Do nothing till Monday. This way you can contact your FO, Super and FPU in the one day.

Get the ball rolling and no matter how many hoops you are asked to jump through, jump through them. Some people fail in their efforts due to lack of commitment. If you are right follow it through to the end. All of what i have suggested is just that, a suggestion. Do not confuse it with advice with any sort of legal standing. I sugget the above actions as these are the steps i took to rectify my issues.

knockon

I feel your pain Dexter about not going to the range with a few colleagues. I cannot tell you how dismayed and dissapointed I am at the "system" that has led to this debacle. Not to put too fine a point on this but it has consumed me somewhat when I see some of the stories of Gougers with Glocks somehow being compared or even mentioned in legalised handgun ownership debates.

I too thought it would be an idea after the 2 refusals I received last week to call the CS Office in Limerick to open some dialogue. That door was closed (not literally) politely and sternly on any dialogue.

1. "The CS is not available and will not be discussing this with you or anyone else." (he actually is retiring next Wednesday and is already gone)
2. "The refusal is set in stone and has been entered onto the system"
3. "Your only options are those on the refusal letter" (DC Appeal or hand in to An Garda Siochana for destruction).

While the advice by a couple of guys here has been superb and is greatly appreciated you are very much on a solo run with regard to pursuing the appeal to the DC as this really is not the place to be discussing the finer point of any potential action in the Courts. Don't give up if you do get refused as Ezridaz said. Personally speaking I will be relentless in my forthcoming challenge.

dexter2010

I would like to thank everybody for your advise, you all sound like a very good & intelligent bunch of people and hopefully (one day) when all this is over, That i will have the delight to meet some of you on a range somewhere, As my situation will now be entering into a legal program, I will have to finish on boards, but promise that if I have to spend every penny that I have earned over my lifetime, I intend to protect the sport that i really love and enjoy.

Sincerely

Dexter

I don't hurt anybody, I have always been in the forefront to help people, so what have I done wrong ???

Sparks

Good luck Dexter. Looking forward to hearing the details of a successful case once it's completed!