Inter-counties xc ( == | != ) provincial/national senior xc

emerald007

is the inter counties race this weekend the same as the national senior xc or not? I assumed since the county senior xc race were held at the start of november, we would have to run the provincial senior before any national senior is held? answers are accepted in written or logical notation.

Rio 2016

There are two national senior XC. The inter counties in November and the inter clubs in March. The Munster XC is traditionally held in the middle of Januaryo prior to the inter clubs. The reason for holding the county XC in November is to try to pull a decent team together for the inter counties.

TheRoadRunner

emerald007 wrote: »

answers are accepted in written or logical notation.

the geekiness factor of the board has just been increased exponentially. I love it

emerald007

1: so which one is the most prestigious to win as an individual in boardies opinions? inter-county or inter-team

2: has anybody won both in the same season? binary answer acceptable, but bonus marks for backing it up with the runners name.

mrak

emerald007 wrote: »

1: so which one is the most prestigious to win as an individual in boardies opinions? inter-county or inter-team

2: has anybody won both in the same season? binary answer acceptable, but bonus marks for backing it up with the runners name.

I have heard that the interclubs is more highly regarded.. though with the timing this year and Santry selection I'd say this one will be massive.

No clue about number 2 without some googling but I'd be surprised if Power hadn't.

TheRoadRunner

emerald007 wrote: »

1: so which one is the most prestigious to win as an individual in boardies opinions? inter-county or inter-team

2: has anybody won both in the same season? binary answer acceptable, but bonus marks for backing it up with the runners name.

1) The inter club was always considered the more prestigious historically, at least amongst all clubs I know. The inter counties have become more important in recent years since the introduction of the euro xc and particularly this year obviously.

2) Seamus power must have won both one year. He had 9/10 intercounty titles and a couple of interclubs as far as I know.

ChickenTikka

emerald007 wrote: »

1: so which one is the most prestigious to win as an individual in boardies opinions? inter-county or inter-team

!inter-clubs

emerald007 wrote: »

2: has anybody won both in the same season? binary answer acceptable, but bonus marks for backing it up with the runners name.

^

mrak

emerald007 wrote: »

2: has anybody won both in the same season? binary answer acceptable, but bonus marks for backing it up with the runners name.

A quick look at a random year in the Power era (2001) showed him with both:

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/tfres01.htm

I bet he did it a few times.

thirtyfoot

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/Outdoor%20ROH.pdf

Easier to see here with the Roll of Honour

In a calender year Gerry Deegan, Dave Taylor, Seamus Power and Gary Murray have done it.

Racing Flat

Inter-counties is "only" 10k as opposed to the 12k Inter-clubs. Also after a track season and subsequent break, some might not be fully prepared for xc by November, but by March most will be fit, so I'd rather win Inter-clubs. Also, for those not aware, Inter-counties is qualifying race for Europeans, Inter-Counties for World XC, so for that alone, Inter-clubs might be deemed more prestigious?

Would it work to have just one combined race early Feb, Europeans late Feb, Worlds in March? To facilitate getting a good base post track and progressing from there?

Rio 2016

Racing Flat wrote: »

Inter-counties is "only" 10k as opposed to the 12k Inter-clubs. Also after a track season and subsequent break, some might not be fully prepared for xc by November, but by March most will be fit, so I'd rather win Inter-clubs. Also, for those not aware, Inter-counties is qualifying race for Europeans, Inter-Counties for World XC, so for that alone, Inter-clubs might be deemed more prestigious?

Would it work to have just one combined race early Feb, Europeans late Feb, Worlds in March? To facilitate getting a good base post track and progressing from there?

I agree with you one hundred per cent. Pitty the powers that be cannot see our way of thinking.

thirtyfoot

Racing Flat wrote: »

Would it work to have just one combined race early Feb, Europeans late Feb, Worlds in March?

I like the way the Europeans is a standalone event in December and not in Feb. I like some things EAA are doing by trying to give European athletes more competition in European events and give those events some focus. If the IAAF move to world cross every two years then Euro Cross will have even more focus in the world cross off years.

EAA are also going to have European track every two years, again giving many European (and Irish) athletes exposure to a major competition even only as a stepping stone to a World or Olympics.

Anyway has there not been an inter-clubs and inter-counties going back to well before there was a Euro cross, thats not why there is two events?

Racing Flat

Tingle wrote: »

Anyway has there not been an inter-clubs and inter-counties going back to well before there was a Euro cross, thats not why there is two events?

You're right - I don't know why there's 2 races at Senior level, considering inter-clubs and inter-counties are combined in 1 race at novice and inter levels.

Rio 2016

Tingle wrote: »

I like the way the Europeans is a standalone event in December and not in Feb. I like some things EAA are doing by trying to give European athletes more competition in European events and give those events some focus. If the IAAF move to world cross every two years then Euro Cross will have even more focus in the world cross off years.

EAA are also going to have European track every two years, again giving many European (and Irish) athletes exposure to a major competition even only as a stepping stone to a World or Olympics.

Anyway has there not been an inter-clubs and inter-counties going back to well before there was a Euro cross, thats not why there is two events?

Thats a very valid point but you must agree that we have to reach beyond the realms of possibility and reach for the stars. How will a European athlete ever beat an African if we try to shy away from the challange.

Kiptanui

Holding the Europeans in December has merit. It gives Irish and European athletes a focus on a championships where success is a distinct possibility. For some it could be a stepping stone to the World Cross. To beat the africans we need to bridge the gap that currently exists. The europeans are a platform to build on and don't neccessarily have to impact negatively on performances at World Cross.

There is a long tradition of both Inter County and Inter club cross country championships. It serves a purpose in providing cross country athletes with two good class national races each season. That in itself is reason enough to maintain them.

frankeee

Kiptanui wrote: »

It serves a purpose in providing cross country athletes with two good class national races each season. That in itself is reason enough to maintain them.

Couldn't agree more. For national level athletes who don't get to compete abroad, there's only the counties, provincial, intercounties & interclub races each season. I guess the novice may be combined due that to anyone being eligible is also eligible for the next level up & so have plenty of races. If Novice or intermediate was separated into club and county it could also lead to confusion, if you won a medal in the clubs but not the counties would you ineligible for both the following season?

TheRoadRunner

In my opinion the Europeans should be moved to February. Europeans are at a disadvantage having to try and peak for 2 different XC championships apart. If the Euros were held 3 weeks before the worlds Europeans may have a better chance of finishing higher up the field. I'm not saying they would have a better chance at winning just a better chance of having a decent run.

As it stands, if I were a top European athlete I would target the Euros and forget about the worlds as it's difficult to peak twice. Just an idea. I'm sure many will differ.

Rio 2016

Good point it is very hard to peak for both races. It is also practically impossible to peak for a Worlds or Olympics in August or September, take a break or some down time and then peak again for the Europeans in December.

thirtyfoot

Rio 2016 wrote: »

Good point it is very hard to peak for both races. It is also practically impossible to peak for a Worlds or Olympics in August or September, take a break or some down time and then peak again for the Europeans in December.

The concept of peaking is over emphasised I think sometimes.

Lets have World Cross, Euro Cross, Euro Outdoors, World Outdoors, Euro Indoors, World Indoors, Olympics, Commenwealths, Pan-Am Games, African Champs et all all in May every year. No need for multiple peaks then. Get all comps out of the way in the space of 4 weeks and everyone can train like animals for the the other 11 months.

--amadeus--

I was talking to a guy doing a sport science course whose background would involve a lot of running. The course was aimed at team sports and included a module on periodisation and they were discussing the art of multiple peaks - as in 2 - 3 peaks per month for a football team.

As long as the dates are laid out in advance why should there be a huge issue with peaking for races that are weeks or even months apart?

thirtyfoot

--amadeus-- wrote: »

The course was aimed at team sports and included a module on periodisation and they were discussing the art of multiple peaks - as in 2 - 3 peaks per month for a football team.

Interesting, did it give any pointers on how to do it?

BeepBeep67

Results now up:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/conte...-kilbeggan.pdf

Senior Women
1 211 Cullen, Mary Sligo A.C. (IND) 26.50
2 855 Byrne, Deirdre Wicklow 27.43
3 848 Byrne, Linda Dublin 27.44
4 856 Britton, Fionnualla Wicklow 27.54

5 900 Treacy, Sara Louise (U.23) Meath 28.21

Senior Men

1 884 Ledwith, Andrew Meath 29.45
2 662 Connolly, Sean Dublin 30.08
3 221 Keneally, Mark Kildare30.12

4 663 Clohisey, Michael Dublin
5 623 Kelly, David Sligo 30.26

Junior Men

1 923 Mc Killop, Michael Antrim 19.22
2 569 Tremble, Liam Dublin 19.33
3 203 Creche, Ryan Cork 19.36
4 567 Jennings, Emmet Dublin 19.40

5 234 Collins, Noel Omagh Y.C. Harriers A.C. (IND) 19.41

Junior Women

1 816 Mageean, Ciara Antrim 15.03
2 965 Shaughnessy, Laura Loughrea A.C. (IND) 15.23
3 818 Mitchell, Emma Banbridge A.C. (IND) 15.26
4 201 Mulhare, Mary North Laois A.C. (IND) 15.28

5 813 Black, Eimear Antrim 15.29