PDC/BDO

virgind

I have been throwing county darts for some years now and was always led to believe that BDO players could not throw in PDC competitions as you could not be a member of both.
Can someone please explain the ruling on this as Geoff Wylie and John Magowan last weekend threw in the Scottish PDC competition and are playing county darts in BDO.
I think this is unfair to the players remaining loyal to 1 organisation and that are genuinely trying to improve their averages.

padr81

McGowan has being in the pdc for the last couple of years and wouldn't be allowed play county I'd say, are you sure its the same guy?

virgind

Yes they're definately the same people, John Magowan (Mr. Magoo) and Geoff Wylie (Coyote Gold). John Magowan is currently throwing darts for Area 4b and Geoff Wylie Area 2.
This can be confirmed by visiting the NIDO website and clicking on County page.
Their entries for PDC competition can also be confirmed by results of the Scottish Players Championship (last weekend). Mervyn King beat Geoff Wylie.
Does anyone else agree that this is unfair to the newbies in County darts?

padr81

I wouldn't say its unfair but I thought BDO didn't allow it, i know pdpa members can't enter indo events down here or play county darts which is why the eastern teams tend to struggle against the Donegal's, Corks and Mayo's of the world.

that said NIDO might have there own ruling on the matter, or maybe McGowans PDPA membership is expired with Scotland being the last event.

pejesus

do you think it is fair that the pdc pros are allowed to play in the irish players championship . I dont mind it but i have heard a few lads moaning about it

Gringo180

pejesus wrote: »

do you think it is fair that the pdc pros are allowed to play in the irish players championship . I dont mind it but i have heard a few lads moaning about it

Irish pdc pro's you mean??
Yeah of course its fair, the majority of players you'll hear moaning is the one's that cant beat them!

virgind

I think you're right, pro's shouldn't be allowed to throw in the Ireland Players Championship.
I think this is a great tournament but it's slightly off-putting to pay 30 euro with the chance of getting drew out to play one of the pro's in the first round and I know quite a few people are thinking the same!

virgind

Gringo180 wrote: »

Irish pdc pro's you mean??
Yeah of course its fair, the majority of players you'll hear moaning is the one's that cant beat them!

I thought that people went PDC was because there's more money, so why do they feel the need to enter amateur competitions? Is this greed or easy pickings??

Gringo180

virgind wrote: »

I think you're right, pro's shouldn't be allowed to throw in the Ireland Players Championship.
I think this is a great tournament but it's slightly off-putting to pay 30 euro with the chance of getting drew out to play one of the pro's in the first round and I know quite a few people are thinking the same!

I dont understand the thinking behind this, if you are serious about the game, you want to play and test yourself against the best around, its the only way to improve

virgind wrote: »

I thought that people went PDC was because there's more money, so why do they feel the need to enter amateur competitions? Is this greed or easy pickings??

You're right there is more money in the PDC a lot more, but the standard is unbelievable and not all the irish pro's make it into the money maybe with the exception of mick mcgowan, but hopefully that will change soon as the standard over here is getting better!

padr81

How typically Irish, instead of striving to improve our game and turn darts into a serious sport, its "lets remove anyone whose any good at it so I can do well."

Firstly how do you define a Pro? cause they play in the PDC? Garrett Grayl, Connie Finnan, Daryll Gurney etc... are equally as good as Mick McGowan, Jacko Barry Shane O'Connor et all so do we just remove PDC players and punish the like of Aodhagen/Shane O'Connor who qualify for the PDC through 1 tournament?

or do we go "Connie Finnan and Daryll are as good lets kick them out too...", lets remove all PDC first, than INDO and BDO players. Than we'll start on anyone at all whose capable of an 85+ Average but doesn't play county or rankings. Than we'll take out anyone who can finish swiftly followed by decent scorers and we'll keep all players who can average 45 for a competition we can all compete in.

Secondly the prize money at players champ events matches that of all BDO floor events, so should the BDO not let Martin Adams etc... into floor events. Joe and Michael are trying to create a good darts calender for Ireland and have one on a par with pro events across the pond, why should they ban players who are playing at the level that we should be striving to reach. If people don't like it let them not play, Could you imagine the irish soccer league (which is amatuer) saying Damien Duff or John O'Shea can't be allowed sign for Bohemians cause he's too good

This does my head in. Irish people are so jealous. "I'm not as good as playerx so lets kick him out" and it happens at all levels. I've seen pub competitions cancelled cause a good player wins a couple of weeks in a row and the jealous say "im not going down there just to give my money to playerx" I love the fact I'm playing players better than me its how I improve. People with the other attitude should just give up as they obviously haven't got the right temprement or desire to impove to ever be any good, so while they are stuck with their 65 average they can moan more and more as more and more players who WANT to impove pass them by.

perfect example - this year my local league brought in a rule to stop anyone who lives more than 6 miles from the pub playing for them. All this to stop 1 player joining the league. Granted he's one of the top men in Mayo but really, 20 lads can't play cause the league committee are jealous of one mans ability.

As if that one man who competes in all Mayo's top events would really be bothered about being able to play 1 leg every tuesday night, the only reason he wanted to sign up was so he could go out with his mates for a few beers on a tuesday and do something he enjoyed, but cause of the same attitude above he's being banned from doing that.

Thats ireland for ya do, jealous of anyone whose better than them at anything. To all with this attitude all I can say is:

If you're scared of playing good players than stay at home from big events and I (and more like me) will gladly take our beatings and improve as you fall further down the list in terms of ability and experience and you can be happy being king of your local with your 60 odd average.

Gringo180

padr81 wrote: »

How typically Irish, instead of striving to improve our game and turn darts into a serious sport, its "lets remove anyone whose any good at it so I can do well."

Firstly how do you define a Pro? cause they play in the PDC? Garrett Grayl, Connie Finnan, Daryll Gurney etc... are equally as good as Mick McGowan, Jacko Barry Shane O'Connor et all so do we just remove PDC players and punish the like of Aodhagen/Shane O'Connor who qualify for the PDC through 1 tournament?

or do we go "Connie Finnan and Daryll are as good lets kick them out too...", lets remove all PDC first, than INDO and BDO players. Than we'll start on anyone at all whose capable of an 85+ Average but doesn't play county or rankings. Than we'll take out anyone who can finish swiftly followed by decent scorers and we'll keep all players who can average 45 for a competition we can all compete in.

Secondly the prize money at players champ events matches that of all BDO floor events, so should the BDO not let Martin Adams etc... into floor events. Joe and Michael are trying to create a good darts calender for Ireland and have one on a par with pro events across the pond, why should they ban players who are playing at the level that we should be striving to reach. If people don't like it let them not play, Could you imagine the irish soccer league (which is amatuer) saying Damien Duff or John O'Shea can't be allowed sign for Bohemians cause he's too good

This does my head in. Irish people are so jealous. "I'm not as good as playerx so lets kick him out" and it happens at all levels. I've seen pub competitions cancelled cause a good player wins a couple of weeks in a row and the jealous say "im not going down there just to give my money to playerx" I love the fact I'm playing players better than me its how I improve. People with the other attitude should just give up as they obviously haven't got the right temprement or desire to impove to ever be any good, so while they are stuck with their 65 average they can moan more and more as more and more players who WANT to impove pass them by.

perfect example - this year my local league brought in a rule to stop anyone who lives more than 6 miles from the pub playing for them. All this to stop 1 player joining the league. Granted he's one of the top men in Mayo but really, 20 lads can't play cause the league committee are jealous of one mans ability.

As if that one man who competes in all Mayo's top events would really be bothered about being able to play 1 leg every tuesday night, the only reason he wanted to sign up was so he could go out with his mates for a few beers on a tuesday and do something he enjoyed, but cause of the same attitude above he's being banned from doing that.

Thats ireland for ya do, jealous of anyone whose better than them at anything. To all with this attitude all I can say is:

If you're scared of playing good players than stay at home from big events and I (and more like me) will gladly take our beatings and improve as you fall further down the list in terms of ability and experience and you can be happy being king of your local with your 60 odd average.

Great post padr

pejesus

well said padr

I have also noticed alot of my local comps are now NO COUNTY PLAYERS ALLOWED .. so if you get good enough to play county darts you cant play darts any more so whats the point in playing for your county . the pub team i play for were all but kicked out of the league cos they won it 3 years in a row.5 pubs with drew from the league and started a NEW LEAGUE aksing all the pubs except ours to join . but im pretty sure this sort of thing is going on all over the country and not just where i live.

I am by no means a good player im average but because i got on the county panel i cant play local darts

Kingp35

virgind wrote: »

I think you're right, pro's shouldn't be allowed to throw in the Ireland Players Championship.
I think this is a great tournament but it's slightly off-putting to pay 30 euro with the chance of getting drew out to play one of the pro's in the first round and I know quite a few people are thinking the same!

That's ridiculous, anybody who is complaining that the Pro's are entering these tournaments is a coward and should stick to throwing in their bedroom. You should be striving to play against the best and to better yourself and hopefully beating them.

Just because your a Pro (are any of them actually pro's? I doubt it) doesn't mean you shouldn't enter local comps, all players need practice.

Seriously that has to be the most cowardly comment I have ever read on this forum.

Dartgod

Well said, Padr, - - - you got a lot off your chest there !!!

Let's go back to the start and the question of PDC {PDPA members} competing in the BDO Inter-Counties.
Some BDO counties do allow PDPA members to compete - it is left entirely up to the County Organisation.
The NIDO {Northern Ireland} has apparently followed that line with Geoff Wylie, John Magowan, Brendan Dolan and maybe others competing in their Inter-Area Championships - - that is their decision.
The NIDO Rankings system is based on averages and the international teams are selected from this.
Obviously, PDPA members would not be eligible for selection for international events organised by the BDO/WDF.
The INDO {Republic of Ireland} operate a different Rankings System with points being awarded to players competing in the Inter-Counties and the various INDO events around the country.
PDPA players and any other players from outside the Republic are not allowed to enter these events as they could jeopardise the chances of INDO players of gaining points to qualify for international events.

Regarding the Ireland Players' Championship this was instigated four years ago to give all Irish residents - North or South - PDC or BDO - an opportunity to compete at a high level with good prize money.
The I.P.C. has come a long way in the past four years and there is no doubt that the standard of play has improved enormously over that period.
A guy in a green blazer once muttered that the Players' Championship will not last and that it will "fizzle out" after the first year ! ! !
Ask the 211 players that turned up to Round One in Kilkenny what they think of that comment.

In all sports players should strive to become the best and not knock those who have the ambition {and maybe the sponsorship} to try their hand at the professional game.
It takes a lot of guts and sacrifice to travel across the water most weekends to take on the likes of Taylor, Barney etc. - - - these guys should not be knocked - - - they should be applauded !

DrDarts

Great thread this. Great responses to it. Lotta questions answered.Thanks Dartgod for last post, I'm not on this site for long but have thrown a long to
e and I've wondered 4 years if it was BDO rules that stopped our PDC players playing intercounty here but your reply has cleared that up. It seems it was an INDO decision all along coz in the case of NI it looks like it's left to the indivual country to make up their own mind. If so then shame on the INDO for this fiasco stopping a countys best player from playing instead of encouraging him for having the guts to try his lot against PDC. Surely if the NI system can be applied without incurring wrath of BDO then it also our county boards that also need kick up backside for year in year out going along with this and denying their best players a chance to play and depriving their fellow team mates the right to play with their buddies and of fielding their best team.
As for the thread starter he says he's a county player so is obviously no mug at darts so should instead be anxious to play the best, PDC included. I'm not a county player and have never beaten a PDC opponent but having got close once or twice will keep trying. I think the IPC is the best event for darts in any country and I'm only sorry we never see Wylie, McBrearthy, John Magowan and especially Brendan Dolan down here. So come on Dartgod send them a reminder. My only problem is that having been made partime this year is I find the €30 very hard to find, maybe as the ar#e has fallen out of the economy since the IPC began 4 yrs ago the entry fee could reflect this.

DrDarts

I've just had another thought does this mean Aodhagan O'Neill will be excluded From his county too once he has signed papers to play in World Champs. If this happens after all he's done over the years not only for his county but country as well then maybe it's time his county board pulled up sticks and left the INDO in the hole they live in !

dionsiseire

pejesus wrote: »

the pub team i play for were all but kicked out of the league cos they won it 3 years in a row.

We suffered the same problem in the rushtown darts league, in a previous year our club had to pull out due to issues with the fixtures being redrawn because 1 team was unhappy with them. Our club didnt agree with re-drawing and ended up withdrawing in the dispute (i think there was more to it i wasnt quite a member then)

We came back last year to the league and won EVERYTHING, when we got to the doubles and trebles, they tried to split up the likes of jacko and mick.

This year we were to have Jimmy Leahy (County Thrower) play for us on the friday, when the league heard about it they changed the rule to only allow 2 county players per team (so mick, jacko and thats it) Thing is we have players who potentially will go on to county level, if Mark Howard isnt at county level he could be, we have 2 youths, dylan and kian who are dublin county youths, both are hovering at 16-18. Soon they could be seniors in contention for county places

So how do we handle that in the club, drop our existing players because they got good??? its a bit silly

I've just had another thought does this mean Aodhagan O'Neill will be excluded From his county too once he has signed papers to play in World Champs. If this happens after all he's done over the years not only for his county but country as well then maybe it's time his county board pulled up sticks and left the INDO in the hole they live in !

I believe signing for the PDC does preclude you from County Darts, im almost certain Jacko Barry and Mick Mcgowan dont play county

A guy in a green blazer once muttered that the Players' Championship will not last and that it will "fizzle out" after the first year ! ! !

Entry in the post yesterday for Round 2 of a fizzled out players championship

My only problem is that having been made partime this year is I find the €30 very hard to find, maybe as the ar#e has fallen out of the economy since the IPC began 4 yrs ago the entry fee could reflect this.

This i can kind of agree with, i see both sides really, 30 quid is a lot (particularly with R1 and R2 so close to each other your spending 60 quid in a close span of time) and 30 quid is a lot if your not a quality thrower who is going to gain experience. That said, to attract all the darts players from all over this island, the prize money needs to remain good, costs must be covered and if you take 10 euro say, off the entry fee to a players championship, you take 2 grand out of the pot of money.

virgind

As a reply to all threads posted, I was asked my opinion by pejesus and I gave my honest opinion. Now I'm being slated.

I am approaching my 60's and travel from Lisburn to every Players Championship and have done for the past few years along with a few younger one's trying to gain the experience who find it hard to come up with the 30 euro as well as travelling expenses.

I feel it is a vicious circle, good young throwers have to use their own money to prove they're good enough to try and attract a sponser where to PDC pro's already have their sponsers!

Someone said it's for the love of darts that EVERYONE is attending but if the prize money wasn't as good would the PDC and pro's still be there?

My initial thread was enquiring as to whether PDC was allowed to throw county darts! If the NIDO has changed their rules they would need to let their county players aware of this as there is many of them under the impression that you can't do both!

vindaloo1

DrDarts wrote: »

It seems it was an INDO decision all along coz in the case of NI it looks like it's left to the indivual country to make up their own mind. If so then shame on the INDO for this fiasco stopping a countys best player from playing instead of encouraging him for having the guts to try his lot against PDC.

INDO stop players playing at one event, the INDO Inter Counties. In a round about way, I suppose it stops them playing in a few of the smaller challenges. They come under INDO rules but are not run by the INDO and do not carry ranking points.

But then, why would a county pick a team that cannot play at the INDO Inter-counties?

Rankings are a different kettle of fish completely, presumably WDF affiliated players are the only ones allowed to travel for the Lakeside/Winmau/Other ranking tournaments unless it is an Open.


I think the number of players affected is very small here anyway, you are talking 10 maybe, and once their PDPA mebership is up they are back in playing anyway.

Any Double !

virgind wrote: »

As a reply to all threads posted, I was asked my opinion by pejesus and I gave my honest opinion. Now I'm being slated.

I am approaching my 60's and travel from Lisburn to every Players Championship and have done for the past few years along with a few younger one's trying to gain the experience who find it hard to come up with the 30 euro as well as travelling expenses.

I feel it is a vicious circle, good young throwers have to use their own money to prove they're good enough to try and attract a sponser where to PDC pro's already have their sponsers!

Someone said it's for the love of darts that EVERYONE is attending but if the prize money wasn't as good would the PDC and pro's still be there?

My initial thread was enquiring as to whether PDC was allowed to throw county darts! If the NIDO has changed their rules they would need to let their county players aware of this as there is many of them under the impression that you can't do both!

Interesting thread this one and I didn't realise different rules applied across the border with regard intercounty darts than to down here.
I guess maybe people were ''slating you'' as you put it, was that you felt some of the fellas should not be allowed play against the rest of us because they are having a shot at the PDC. Many of these are playing in the IPC since it started. Its really a good chance for everybody else to play them though and while they are good they are not unbeatable and lose in the IPC regularly like everybody else. I think if they were top full time Pros I could understand your fears but they don't make that much money from the PDC and playing them knowing you have a chance of winning does raise your game. Indeed playing in the Lisburn area you and your young friends would probably have often bumped into Antrim man and current IPC Champ John Elder in tournaments there. John is not with the PDC yet came out tops last year. If you apply the criteria you are suggesting to the PDC players then you could also argue that as John and Daryll Guerney who are both international players and recent runners up in the World pairs (and Daryll is off to the Embassy shortly) could also be regarded as ''too good'' for the rest of us not allowed play either.
I don't think along those lines though and would say the more the merrier and feel the better the opponent you play the better you will get. If you look back over the few years its been running you'll see many different IPC winners that never threw a PDC dart. The IPC is independent of all other bodies and does not seem to discriminate one way or another either by code or whether you play north or south of the border ... thats probably what makes it more popular.
If the NIDO allow PDC players into the county teams then thats great and I wish we had a similar system down here. Yes the Euro30 is enough and wouldn't want to go any higher but in fairness the 6 rounds are pretty well spread out from Nov to May and a night out at the local without throwing any dart would cost more. I travel a similar distance as yourself also bringing younger players with me and I hope you and your young colleagues will continue to travel to the Championships for the experience it brings and wish you well.

Any Double !

(quote=DrDarts;63046862]G then it also our county boards that also need kick up backside for year in year out going along with this and denying their best players a chance to play =quote)
Yep, get their Butts ready

virgind

It's nice to finally read something that makes sense, like I said before I was asked my opinion that doesn't make it right!
I suppose in a round about way what I'm trying to say is if you take away the big money you take away the big name!
When I started throwing darts prize money was £100 - £200 tops and most was just for trophies. We travelled north and south, darts were good and the entries were high.
But now the big guns won't support the smaller prize competitions therefore in my opinion they are not there for the love or promotion of the game but to line their own pockets, leading to the smaller annual competitions no longer being run. Again this is only MY opinion!

padr81

vindaloo1 wrote: »

INDO stop players playing at one event, the INDO Inter Counties. In a round about way, I suppose it stops them playing in a few of the smaller challenges. They come under INDO rules but are not run by the INDO and do not carry ranking points.

But then, why would a county pick a team that cannot play at the INDO Inter-counties?

Rankings are a different kettle of fish completely, presumably WDF affiliated players are the only ones allowed to travel for the Lakeside/Winmau/Other ranking tournaments unless it is an Open.


I think the number of players affected is very small here anyway, you are talking 10 maybe, and once their PDPA mebership is up they are back in playing anyway.

all Indo events state no pdpa players allowed.

vindaloo1

vindaloo1 wrote: »

INDO stop players playing at one event, the INDO Inter Counties. In a round about way, I suppose it stops them playing in a few of the smaller challenges. They come under INDO rules but are not run by the INDO and do not carry ranking points.

But then, why would a county pick a team that cannot play at the INDO Inter-counties?

Rankings are a different kettle of fish completely, presumably WDF affiliated players are the only ones allowed to travel for the Lakeside/Winmau/Other ranking tournaments unless it is an Open.


I think the number of players affected is very small here anyway, you are talking 10 maybe, and once their PDPA mebership is up they are back in playing anyway.

padr81 wrote: »

all Indo events state no pdpa players allowed.

I know - but once their PDPA membership is up they are back in though.

But what is the point of allowing PDPA members to compete, when they
cannot travel to Lakeside or Winmau qualifiers or other events as they are
not WDF affiliated?

I presume John Magowan or whoever will not be allowed to travel even if they play NIDO area games.

Mountains and molehills anyway, as it will affect very few players in Ireland.

padr81

thats true, i understand why they can't play indo ranked games but county imho should be different. It wouldn't be fair to see Jacko or someone take ranking points off a lad eligible to play for Ireland but i don't see how county teams affect it.

virgind

nido county rankings are worked out on your average lf you win you get a half point added
so people saying it only affects a few people is wrong the people who lose to pdc players are affected as they lose that half point
so losing to a competitor that is pdc dose mess the season up and for what at the end of it the pdc players dont count

padr81

that makes sense virgind, i don't understand why they'd do that cause it does affect certain players and not others, makes it easier for some.

Dartgod

padr81 wrote: »

thats true, i understand why they can't play indo ranked games but county imho should be different. It wouldn't be fair to see Jacko or someone take ranking points off a lad eligible to play for Ireland but i don't see how county teams affect it.

Players are awarded rankings points for the INDO Irish Inter-Counties Championships - - so a player could lose out on an international place if he is beaten by a PDPA member !

padr81

Dartgod wrote: »

Players are awarded rankings points for the INDO Irish Inter-Counties Championships - - so a player could lose out on an international place if he is beaten by a PDPA member !

ah ok, i thought only the singles and doubles comps awarded ranking points. so county players get an advantage by having extra points....

vindaloo1

padr81 wrote: »

ah ok, i thought only the singles and doubles comps awarded ranking points. so county players get an advantage by having extra points....

You get 3 points for being selected and one point per win in the round
robin games at the INDO Inter-counties.

So you can potentailly get 6 points.

My point earlier about the smaller inter-copunty games though, which
carry no points (West Coast challenge etc) - can't see why they cannot
pick players for those. They may be run under INDO rules but are not run
by the INDO.

vindaloo1

virgind wrote: »

nido county rankings are worked out on your average lf you win you get a half point added
so people saying it only affects a few people is wrong the people who lose to pdc players are affected as they lose that half point
so losing to a competitor that is pdc dose mess the season up and for what at the end of it the pdc players dont count

What I meant was the ban on PDPA players in INDO tournaments only
affects a handful i.e. those that are current PDPA memebers.

What happens in NIDO games doesn't concern me as it doesn't affect me.

padr81

thanks for that vindaloo i was wondering how galway had 3 teams in the limerick invitational.

Dartgod

vindaloo1 wrote: »

My point earlier about the smaller inter-copunty games though, which
carry no points (West Coast challenge etc) - can't see why they cannot
pick players for those. They may be run under INDO rules but are not run
by the INDO.

The Inter-Counties Challenge competitions at the Tramore Spring Festival in April is not run under INDO rules and PDPA members are allowed to play.

vindaloo1

Dartgod wrote: »

The Inter-Counties Challenge competitions at the Tramore Spring Festival in April is not run under INDO rules and PDPA members are allowed to play.

Aye, but I was thinking more of the West Coast/East Coast ones that are run by county boards.