UK troops alleged to have raped and tortured

Tarzan007

It looks like the UK has its own Abu Ghraib according to the Guardian. And then you read on this forum of how the UK and USA is over there " winning hearts and minds ".

Hundreds of uninvestigated Iraqi abuse claims against troops, says lawyer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/14/iraq-abuse-claims-british-troops

twinytwo

the problem is you were always going to get this ... even if it didnt happen

McArmalite

Tarzan007 wrote: »

It looks like the UK has its own Abu Ghraib according to the Guardian. And then you read on this forum of how the UK and USA is over there " winning hearts and minds ".

Hundreds of uninvestigated Iraqi abuse claims against troops, says lawyer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/14/iraq-abuse-claims-british-troops

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

minidazzler

McArmalite wrote: »

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

Smiling are we?

Read the word alleged.

If they did it, hang those responsible high.

But the VAST almost incalculable majority did no such thing wrong.

punchdrunk

McArmalite wrote: »

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

your posts are the reason I don't visit the mil forum anymore

sickening

troubleshooter

McArmalite wrote: »

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

Who says it true, problem is when western govts offer compensation there will be lots of claims hard to know if they are true.

save the barstool republican surmon for when your next in need of a pint and the dole cheque aint arrived.

troubleshooter

punchdrunk wrote: »

your posts are the reason I don't visit the mil forum anymore

sickening

British soldiers in the north put up with such verbal diaherria for years in the north, from sickening hypocrities whom if they simply breathed on claimed their human rights had been abused, by day hiding behind human rights, by night putting on balacalvas and planting bombs under peoples cars, total scum.

Manic Moran

In the Al Qaeda Book of Instructions (Or field manual, or whatever it was they called it that they found a year or two ago) it says that once released from captivity, claim abuse.

Very difficult to disprove, and gets great PR. Also wastes lots of people's time as they conduct the investigation. We'll see what comes of it.

NTM

ToniTuddle

In nearly all wars there were forms of abuse from all the countries in question. I believe that without a doubt.

When some human beings are pushed beyond the limit, beyond what they can take mentally......bad things happen.
It has nothing to do with being British or whatever country the accused is from. It's their mental state.

DublinDes

troubleshooter wrote: »

British soldiers in the north put up with such verbal diaherria for years in the north, from sickening hypocrities whom if they simply breathed on claimed their human rights had been abused, by day hiding behind human rights, by night putting on balacalvas and planting bombs under peoples cars, total scum.

Ah yeah, sure what else could you expect better from the natives, especially the Irish. Ofcourse the Brits never shot, maimed and tortured innocent civilians in Ireland or anywhere else for that matter. It's all just propaganda to discredit the good name of the British army isn't it :rolleyes:

DixonBainbridge

Innocent until speculated guilty.

ToniTuddle

Does this place always turn into a battleground between Ireland versus England?

I guess so :mad:

concussion

Some people wouldn't have it any other way

Happy Monday

McArmalite wrote: »

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

Although people like you told us for 25 years how they would leave the North but ah....they didn't did they?

Manic Moran

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Does this place always turn into a battleground between Ireland versus England?

I guess so :mad:

On these threads, yes, until they get locked at least. On threads where it's a bit off-topic, I try to rein it in.

NTM

ToniTuddle

Manic Moran wrote: »

On these threads, yes, until they get locked at least. On threads where it's a bit off-topic, I try to rein it in.

NTM

I'm still pretty new to all this. Didn't even realise there was a Military place! Still I'm sure there are good debates and discussions occuring without the Ireland v England comments. I'll continue having a nosey around.:) *thumbs up*

BlaasForRafa

These allegations have a strong whiff of bulls==t, rather like the false allegations that got piers morgan the sack from the mirror.

Zambia

These are allegations that lead to more calls for troops to be sent home. A ideal scenario for militants.

Chances are some are true some are false.

If Ireland had 120,000 troops rotate in Iraq under the same mandate I can assure you Irish Troops would be accused of and some would have commited simialar acts.

Plus this just sounds ridiculous
"Then more serious stuff started coming up, when we realised some female soldiers were exposing themselves in front of prisoners while they were in toilets or showers. On one occasion, one female soldier tried to have sex with one of the detainees while he was resting after an operation in a hospital bed."

I wont even go into the possibilty some of these cliams could be looking for cash settlements.

CokaColumbo

A fair bit of bitterness on this thread exists.
People should realise that you don't have to a Republican to suspect that British army brutality not only exists in the war zones which they have created but is also common; you only have to be, at best, an amateur historian. The British army has reacted very badly when confronted with insurgency movements throughout the years.

Shame on those people who have immediately dismissed these claims of abuse. After all, how were hundreds of internees treated in 1971 in Long Kesh? And did the British army not commit many atrocities in Ireland during the 20th century alone?
If the British were willing to treat the Irish en masse like scum of the earth at certain points (and in their own back garden) who is able to say that they wouldn't do the same in Afghanistan, half way across the world, in 2009?
An impartial historian will tell you that the British army has had, throughout its long history, an enduring propensity to deliberately inflict suffering and death upon civilians wholesale.

The photo is of Jallianwallah, India, the site at which the British army murdered approximately 379 civilians and wounded over a thousand more at a nationalist demonstration in 1919.
This is not an Ireland Vs. Britain issue. This is a British army issue period.

congress3

CokaColumbo wrote: »

A fair bit of bitterness on this thread exists.
People should realise that you don't have to a Republican to suspect that British army brutality not only exists in the war zones which they have created but is also common; you only have to be, at best, an amateur historian. The British army has reacted very badly when confronted with insurgency movements throughout the years.

Shame on those people who have immediately dismissed these claims of abuse. After all, how were hundreds of internees treated in 1971 in Long Kesh? And did the British army not commit many atrocities in Ireland during the 20th century alone?
If the British were willing to treat the Irish en masse like scum of the earth at certain points (and in their own back garden) who is able to say that they wouldn't do the same in Afghanistan, half way across the world, in 2009?
An impartial historian will tell you that the British army has had, throughout its long history, an enduring propensity to deliberately inflict suffering and death upon civilians wholesale.

The photo is of Jallianwallah, India, the site at which the British army murdered approximately 379 civilians and wounded over a thousand more at a nationalist demonstration in 1919.
This is not an Ireland Vs. Britain issue. This is a British army issue period.

+1. You can't seem to criticise the british army without being called an uneducated republican cnut and told to f**k off to the north.

Poccington

congress3 wrote: »

+1. You can't seem to criticise the british army without being called an uneducated republican cnut and told to f**k off to the north.

Where in this thread or any recent threads has that been said?

Zambia

In light of that all the troops at that action where Gurkha Or Indian Commanded by Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer an Engilish Officer.

He was officially censured by the British Government and resigned in 1920.

As much as it was a British Army action the attitude of the commander and the willingness of native troops to obey such a command do not exist today.

"I think it quite possible that I could have dispersed the crowd without firing but they would have come back again and laughed, and I would have made, what I consider, a fool of myself." — Dyer's response to the Hunter Commission Enquiry

seanybiker

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Does this place always turn into a battleground between Ireland versus England?

I guess so :mad:

Dunno bout here but anytime a fart or anything explosive is mentioned the Ireland v England crap starts. And thats only in the pub.

Manic Moran

Shame on those people who have immediately dismissed these claims of abuse.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few incidents. I would be very surprised if it were systemic, and if the more egregious incidents listed happened. Is it likely that someone in the British Army came back from visiting Abu Ghraib on holiday and said "I've got this great idea. The Americans have started making the prisoners get into naked piles and then electorcuting them. I think we should do this here!" as the article implies? The rape case quoted above is similarly unlikely on the face of it.

What us cynics are saying is 'look into it before trying to draw blanket statements.' I seem to recall that the last time the British were accused of blanket brutality (even with supposed video) it turned out to be no such case.

NTM

Mahatma coat

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Does this place always turn into a battleground between Ireland versus England?

I guess so :mad:

Well not Always, Sometimes the Debate Strays into Discussions of Israel

thats when you will see the true Warmongers come out to 'Defend' Israels genocidal policies.

its always the same people and they spout the same Sh1te repeatedly.

but yeah, heaven forbid you remind the soldiers on this forum stationed in the M.E. that they are just state sponsored thugs partaking in an unjust and immoral war of occupation

Manic Moran

but yeah, heaven forbid you remind the soldiers on this forum stationed in the M.E. that they are just state sponsored thugs partaking in an unjust and immoral war of occupation

You're welcome. It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it. Thug training is very precise, and it's beyond the capabilities of mere amateurs.

NTM

getz

Manic Moran wrote: »

You're welcome. It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it. Thug training is very precise, and it's beyond the capabilities of mere amateurs.

NTM

i am sure even the most racist of boardies have heard about jumping on the gravy train,there are lawyers out there who know they can make money by trying it on,but notice their own goverment is raping and torturing its own people in mass,i bet non of them are trying to take their troops/police to court,as far as the irish v hate the british, why dont these posties take a closer look at the[ proved ]raping and torture that has been done to the irish children over recent years ? or is that to close to home ?

blinding

Is abusing people worse than killing them.

How many Iraqis and Afghanis have been liberated from their life at this stage.

Amazing how many people have to die for liberation.

Liberating OIL in Iraqs case

troubleshooter

CokaColumbo wrote: »

A fair bit of bitterness on this thread exists.
People should realise that you don't have to a Republican to suspect that British army brutality not only exists in the war zones which they have created but is also common; you only have to be, at best, an amateur historian. The British army has reacted very badly when confronted with insurgency movements throughout the years.

Shame on those people who have immediately dismissed these claims of abuse. After all, how were hundreds of internees treated in 1971 in Long Kesh? And did the British army not commit many atrocities in Ireland during the 20th century alone?
If the British were willing to treat the Irish en masse like scum of the earth at certain points (and in their own back garden) who is able to say that they wouldn't do the same in Afghanistan, half way across the world, in 2009?
An impartial historian will tell you that the British army has had, throughout its long history, an enduring propensity to deliberately inflict suffering and death upon civilians wholesale.

The photo is of Jallianwallah, India, the site at which the British army murdered approximately 379 civilians and wounded over a thousand more at a nationalist demonstration in 1919.
This is not an Ireland Vs. Britain issue. This is a British army issue period.

So you seriously believe female British troops demaded sex off prisoners :rolleyes:


Quote :
The British army has reacted very badly when confronted with insurgency movements throughout the years.

..............No the British compared to other nations have reacted very civililised when confronted with terrorist orgs over the years, inc in N Ireland. Where considering the pressure troops operated under for 35 yrs civilian deaths were low.

QUOTE:

If the British were willing to treat the Irish en masse like scum of the earth at certain points

...........The BA did not treat the Irish en mass like scum, the IRA hide behind the civilian population thus the BA were forced to search innocent peoples homes etc, it was part of the IRA strategy.

QUOTE :
An impartial historian will tell you that the British army has had, throughout its long history, an enduring propensity to deliberately inflict suffering and death upon civilians wholesale.

...............What historian,Where did such a massacre happen ?

Mr. Presentable

Why would this be a surprise? Who wants to work for £15k per annum?

cyrusdvirus

same old usernames, sprouting same old tripe, accepting that anyone who wears a british uniform is inherently evil.....

Seriously, i sometimes wonder how some of the people on this forum know what to type without reading about it in an Phobolacht or whatever that rag calls itself

ToniTuddle

Not all Republicans are complete tosspots. I'm a Republican and proud of it. But I am not blinded by it. I can see both sides of the argument.
I've read through alot of posts and there have been wide generalizations on both sides!!

Is there not something about...not insulting someones beliefs/who they support politically on boards??

Either way, if you can't listen to both sides of the argument and discuss it in a grown up, civilised way...then don't post. Plain and simple.
If everyone contributes(civilised) to the discussion, then everyone will come away from it a hell of alot happier.

That's my 2cents for the day folks

Fratton Fred

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Not all Republicans are complete tosspots. I'm a Republican and proud of it. But I am not blinded by it. I can see both sides of the argument.
I've read through alot of posts and there have been wide generalizations on both sides!!

Is there not something about...not insulting someones beliefs/who they support politically on boards??

Either way, if you can't listen to both sides of the argument and discuss it in a grown up, civilised way...then don't post. Plain and simple.
If everyone contributes(civilised) to the discussion, then everyone will come away from it a hell of alot happier.

That's my 2cents for the day folks

unfortunately there is a certain amount of "Previous Form" on these boards as well....

McArmalite

Happy Monday wrote: »

Although people like you told us for 25 years how they would leave the North but ah....they didn't did they?

And people like you told us the british army would someday defeat the IRA. Here's Tony Blair admitting they couldn't, and anyway, with the ever increasing nationalist population,your wee Ulster hasn't got long to go and then it will be gone FOREVER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmF4t9ICGEU

Zambia232 wrote: »

These are allegations that lead to more calls for troops to be sent home. A ideal scenario for militants.

Chances are some are true some are false.

If Ireland had 120,000 troops rotate in Iraq under the same mandate I can assure you Irish Troops would be accused of and some would have commited simialar acts.

Plus this just sounds ridiculous
"Then more serious stuff started coming up, when we realised some female soldiers were exposing themselves in front of prisoners while they were in toilets or showers. On one occasion, one female soldier tried to have sex with one of the detainees while he was resting after an operation in a hospital bed."

I wont even go into the possibilty some of these cliams could be looking for cash settlements.

It's possible some may tell porkies in fraudelent claims, but it's definetly certain that the brit propaganda machine and it's very willing media and fanclub will start putting out illogical statements and claims allegedly been made by Iraqi and Afghan victims as part of a campaign to discredit the genuine cases.

getz

McArmalite wrote: »

And people like you told us the british army would someday defeat the IRA. Here's Tony Blair admitting they couldn't, and anyway, with the ever increasing nationalist population,your wee Ulster hasn't got long to go and then it will be gone FOREVER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmF4t9ICGEU

It's possible some may tell porkies in fraudelent claims, but it's definetly certain that the brit propaganda machine and it's very willing media and fanclub will start putting out illogical statements and claims allegedly been made by Iraqi and Afghan victims as part of a campaign to discredit the genuine cases.

strange, its the first time you havent mentioned irish victims in your posts,you are slipping,

ToniTuddle

Fratton Fred wrote: »

unfortunately there is a certain amount of "Previous Form" on these boards as well....

Eh?

merrionsq

getz wrote: »

strange, its the first time you havent mentioned irish victims in your posts,you are slipping,

Yes, and what kind of an Imperialist West Brit would resort to using a Tony Blair to back up their arguement? Despicable:rolleyes: anyway going back to the original story....

McArmalite

getz wrote: »

strange, its the first time you havent mentioned irish victims in your posts,you are slipping,

As usual poor old getz gets it worng :rolleyes:, go through the thread and you'll see my other threads haven't metioned Irish victims. But I don't see why I shouldn't be concerned for fellow Irish people and sometimes to point out the similiarites between what we have endured and others around the world.

Anyway it wouldn't be long before getz will start lecturing us with the conceited lies that britian alone defeated Germany in WW2 and we all should be thankful for ever more to them :rolleyes:

getz

McArmalite wrote: »

As usual poor old getz gets it worng :rolleyes:, go through the thread and you'll see my other threads haven't metioned Irish victims. But I don't see why I shouldn't be concerned for fellow Irish people and sometimes to point out the similiarites between what we have endured and others around the world.

Anyway it wouldn't be long before getz will start lecturing us with the conceited lies that britian alone defeated Germany in WW2 and we all should be thankful for ever more to them :rolleyes:

i take it that when you say fellow irish men ,you dont mean those irish men who live in northern ireland, ?the one you want the kick out back to scotland ? [your own words]

CokaColumbo

troubleshooter wrote: »

..............What historian,Where did such a massacre happen?

troubleshooter wrote: »

...........The BA did not treat the Irish en mass like scum, the IRA hide behind the civilian population thus the BA were forced to search innocent peoples homes etc, it was part of the IRA strategy.

During the Irish War of Independence for example, the crown forces, after having suffered casualties as a result of an ambush or attack, would react by murdering civilians. Many towns and cities across Ireland were burned to the ground (e.g. Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles, Templemore, Cork, Mallow, Fermoy etc.) for the same reason. Senior commanders were actually encouraged by the British government to punish the civilian population in this way in order to subjugate them. Crown forces literally marauded through areas, picking off people from their trucks which, incidentally Troubleshooter, contained Irish civilians who were used as human shields.

There have been countless atrocities committed by the British on Irish soil during the twentieth century alone. Take for example the Bachelor's Walk massacre of 1914 when troops fired at civilians because they were being jeered at. Or the Kings Street massacre of 1916 when troops of the South Staffordshire Regiment killed upwards of 13 civilians in cold blood in their homes in one day during Easter week. Or Bloody Sunday in 1921. Or the Ballymurphy shootings of 1971 or Bloody Sunday of January 1972, both atrocities committed by the 2nd Parachute Regiment.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

Focusing on the case of abuse allegations, there were in the 1970s literally hundreds of similar claims made by prisoners, largely internees, of severe physical abuse, and abusive psychological intimidation, all bordering on, and many including, the definition of torture. It was because of the above that the British were hauled before the European Court of Human Rights in September 1976. Britain was convicted of violating people's human rights because their conduct "not only involved inhuman and degrading treatment but also torture."
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch76.htm

I understand the context of the period and how if the US marines were in charge things may have been worse but that does not excuse in any way the actions which were committed by British troops, actions which were of a widespread nature.

Essentially my point is this: we as Irishmen should not be surprised by allegations of widespread abuse being committed by British soldiers in Afghanistan; we should in fact expect nothing less because Britain was convicted of torture and inhuman and degrading treatment in Ireland 30 years ago. And anybody who has any knowledge of the "prison" system during the Troubles knows that abuse, at points, was widespread.

troubleshooter

CokaColumbo wrote: »

During the Irish War of Independence for example, the crown forces, after having suffered casualties as a result of an ambush or attack, would react by murdering civilians. Many towns and cities across Ireland were burned to the ground (e.g. Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles, Templemore, Cork, Mallow, Fermoy etc.) for the same reason. Senior commanders were actually encouraged by the British government to punish the civilian population in this way in order to subjugate them. Crown forces literally marauded through areas, picking off people from their trucks which, incidentally Troubleshooter, contained Irish civilians who were used as human shields.

There have been countless atrocities committed by the British on Irish soil during the twentieth century alone. Take for example the Bachelor's Walk massacre of 1914 when troops fired at civilians because they were being jeered at. Or the Kings Street massacre of 1916 when troops of the South Staffordshire Regiment killed upwards of 13 civilians in cold blood in their homes in one day during Easter week. Or Bloody Sunday in 1921. Or the Ballymurphy shootings of 1971 or Bloody Sunday of January 1972, both atrocities committed by the 2nd Parachute Regiment.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

Focusing on the case of abuse allegations, there were in the 1970s literally hundreds of similar claims made by prisoners, largely internees, of severe physical abuse, and abusive psychological intimidation, all bordering on, and many including, the definition of torture. It was because of the above that the British were hauled before the European Court of Human Rights in September 1976. Britain was convicted of violating people's human rights because their conduct "not only involved inhuman and degrading treatment but also torture."
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch76.htm

I understand the context of the period and how if the US marines were in charge things may have been worse but that does not excuse in any way the actions which were committed by British troops, actions which were of a widespread nature.

Essentially my point is this: we as Irishmen should not be surprised by allegations of widespread abuse being committed by British soldiers in Afghanistan; we should in fact expect nothing less because Britain was convicted of torture and inhuman and degrading treatment in Ireland 30 years ago. And anybody who has any knowledge of the "prison" system during the Troubles knows that abuse, at points, was widespread.

QUOTE:

Many towns and cities across Ireland were burned to the ground (e.g. Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles, Templemore, Cork, Mallow, Fermoy etc.)

..........Thats historical propagana, towns were not burned, buildings belonging to SF/IRA members were burned, as an example the "burning of cork" was actually a shop which belonged to an IRA member being set on fire, it spread to 2 blocks and killed 3 people, yet the claim is the British burned cork, total BS, sometimes cottages were set on fire cause IRA members were in secret partitions hiding. Just like the other claims, the BA killed very few civilans in the war of independence a couple of hunderd at most, in terms of civil wars, thats minimal..........thats my point. In Tuam as an example building with thatched roofs caught abaze in a protracted firefight, in the new free state this was taught as the Burning of Tuam, anti British propeganda was used as a means of getting the public to fully support the new free state, when only a few years earlier they had booed and geered the leaders of the 1916 uprising.
Obviously the BA were no saints, but most of the claims are massive exaggerations.

Compared to other civil wars, Serbs/Bosnians etc the British showed alot of restraint.

As for the rest, the BA in NI were fighting an enemy hiding behind a civilan population, its inevitable sometimes civilans would get caught up in the heat of the moment. You can thank the IRA.

bunny shooter

Lads to tell ye a wee story a bit off topic but kinda sums it up for me ever since it happened. There is always gonna be a rivalry for want of a better word between the Irish & the English, same as some of the Welsh and the Scottish and the English. The Irish don't have a monopoly on English oppression :P .........................

My brother & I many years ago worked in a petrol station and two "English" lads came in and wanted to pay with Sterling. It was a company owned site and the rules were the rules. My brother advised them that he couldn't accept Sterling and they got quite irate to say the least. Now my brother is a quiet fellow with a razor sharp wit. Anyway, the two English lads were making a major fuss and one of them said "...this country is gone to the dogs since we gave it back to ye" to which my brother replies "...gave it back, we took it back"

Reckon it will take a few more generations to heal the scars on both sides Ray Houghton's goal and rugby matches in Croke Park have proved that.

I lived in UK for 8 years I witnessed racism 'cause I was Irish BUT I had and still have a lot of "English" friends. Two of my daughters are "English" or as I call 'em "Plastic Paddies" :P

CokaColumbo

troubleshooter wrote: »

QUOTE:

Many towns and cities across Ireland were burned to the ground (e.g. Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles, Templemore, Cork, Mallow, Fermoy etc.)

..........Thats historical propagana, towns were not burned, buildings belonging to SF/IRA members were burned, as an example the "burning of cork" was actually a shop which belonged to an IRA member being set on fire, it spread to 2 blocks and killed 3 people, yet the claim is the British burned cork, total BS, sometimes cottages were set on fire cause IRA members were in secret partitions hiding. Just like the other claims, the BA killed very few civilans in the war of independence a couple of hunderd at most, in terms of civil wars, thats minimal..........thats my point. In Tuam as an example building with thatched roofs caught abaze in a protracted firefight, in the new free state this was taught as the Burning of Tuam, anti British propeganda was used as a means of getting the public to fully support the new free state, when only a few years earlier they had booed and geered the leaders of the 1916 uprising.
Obviously the BA were no saints, but most of the claims are massive exaggerations.

Compared to other civil wars, Serbs/Bosnians etc the British showed alot of restraint.

As for the rest, the BA in NI were fighting an enemy hiding behind a civilan population, its inevitable sometimes civilans would get caught up in the heat of the moment. You can thank the IRA.

Thank you for not dealing with the vast bulk of my argument and for not providing any evidence for your own argument.

concussion

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Thank you for not dealing with the vast bulk of my argument and for not providing any evidence for your own argument.

Does he have to? You did just claim that Cork was burned to the ground...

McArmalite

I've got a feeling that our old friend Pathfinder/Vesp is back :eek: Anyway....

troubleshooter wrote: »

QUOTE:

Many towns and cities across Ireland were burned to the ground (e.g. Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles, Templemore, Cork, Mallow, Fermoy etc.)

..........Thats historical propagana, towns were not burned, buildings belonging to SF/IRA members were burned, as an example the "burning of cork" was actually a shop which belonged to an IRA member being set on fire, it spread to 2 blocks and killed 3 people, yet the claim is the British burned cork, total BS, sometimes cottages were set on fire cause IRA members were in secret partitions hiding. Just like the other claims, the BA killed very few civilans in the war of independence a couple of hunderd at most, in terms of civil wars, thats minimal..........thats my point. In Tuam as an example building with thatched roofs caught abaze in a protracted firefight, in the new free state this was taught as the Burning of Tuam, anti British propeganda was used as a means of getting the public to fully support the new free state, when only a few years earlier they had booed and geered the leaders of the 1916 uprising.

" With over five acres of the city destroyed and an estimated £20 million worth of damage, the Burning of Cork is recognised as the most extensive single act of vandalism in the entire period of the nationalist struggle. "

http://www.rte.ie/tv/hiddenhistory/theburningofcork.html

Obviously the BA were no saints, but most of the claims are massive exaggerations.

Compared to other civil wars, Serbs/Bosnians etc the British showed alot of restraint.

As for the rest, the BA in NI were fighting an enemy hiding behind a civilan population, its inevitable sometimes civilans would get caught up in the heat of the moment. You can thank the IRA.

Well, we're off topic but since you stated your insane unionist ramblings, the little matter of reaction by the International communtiy, especially America, puts the brake on britain throwing it's weight around

Sleipnir

Anyway, to get back on topic and away....

The evidence that the British government has been involved in torture in Afghanistan (and elsewhere) has been mounting for quite some time.

Ian Cobain, an investigative journalist with The Guardian wrote an piece here back in July which basically shows how British Intelligence officers remained within the law regarding torture, by getting the Pakistanis to do it for them.

e.g. A person is brought into custody by the Pakistani police and the person is tortured. Then, the person is brought to another place where a man with a British accent asks him questions, but is not tortured.
The person is then again removed to Pakistani custody where he is tortured before returning to the other place to again be questioned by the man with the British accent.

Anyway, I don't want to give away the entire article but it is certainly worth reading if you have a passing interest in this.

Ian Cobain won the 2009 Paul Foote award for the article, by the way. In fact, I'd be nearly certain that the article, plus his articles since played a major part in the inquiry taking place.

concussion

McArmalite wrote: »

" With over five acres of the city destroyed and an estimated £20 million worth of damage, the Burning of Cork is recognised as the most extensive single act of vandalism in the entire period of the nationalist struggle. "

http://www.rte.ie/tv/hiddenhistory/theburningofcork.html

5 acres = 20234 metres squared = approximately 100m x 200m. Massive :rolleyes:

troubleshooter

McArmalite wrote: »

I've got a feeling that our old friend Pathfinder/Vesp is back :eek: Anyway....


" With over five acres of the city destroyed and an estimated £20 million worth of damage, the Burning of Cork is recognised as the most extensive single act of vandalism in the entire period of the nationalist struggle. "

http://www.rte.ie/tv/hiddenhistory/theburningofcork.html


Well, we're off topic but since you stated your insane unionist ramblings, the little matter of reaction by the International communtiy, especially America, puts the brake on britain throwing it's weight around

Whos Pathfinder/vesp

Five acres is not the burning of cork as is taught and most believe, it was two blocks/streets it included various dept stores and the town hall.

Insane ramblings ? You mean facts rather then fiction.

£20 million worth of damage.............That has to be an exaggeration, considering how cheap land and buildings cost at that time, I suspect the 5 acres is as well.

Fuinseog

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

These allegations have a strong whiff of bulls==t, rather like the false allegations that got piers morgan the sack from the mirror.

hear hear. the Tommy fights fairly and is above such things.

Fuinseog

Tarzan007 wrote: »

It looks like the UK has its own Abu Ghraib according to the Guardian. And then you read on this forum of how the UK and USA is over there " winning hearts and minds ".

Hundreds of uninvestigated Iraqi abuse claims against troops, says lawyer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/14/iraq-abuse-claims-british-troops

apparently they tortured German POWS after the war.

Fuinseog

McArmalite wrote: »

Well now, could anyone possibly expect anything better from the british army. Tell you one thing though, their will be a hell of a lot more of them coming home in coffins now.

especially when they are not even properly equipped. most of their kit they buy themselves.