using weapons to defend your home

bungaro

one of my buddies houses was broken into recently (no-one was home at the time) and we got into a discussion of what would happen if you were to use some martial arts weapons (he got a pair of nunchukus abroad a few years ago) to defend yourself against the attacker?? i know that your allowed have weapons as "decorations" in your own private residence but are there circumstances where you can use them?? like if u hit an attacker with a hurley is that alright since is not an actual weapon as opposed to hitting them with nunchucks which are specifically used to hurt???

xX Batman Xx

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

leonkickboxing

Ok so after i chop him to bits with my katanas ill drag his corps up stairs...happy days.
Thanks batman;)

xX Batman Xx

Great minds think alike ;) ha ha

Big Lar

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

What about if you live in a bungalow ?

xX Batman Xx

Big Lar wrote: »

What about if you live in a bungalow ?

Corpse to doorstep ha ha, I dont know, I just heard that.

leonkickboxing

So dig a hole in your back garden and no one needs ever know:)

pearsquasher

RTE radio aired an excellent discussion of this very topic with various experts.

See Programme 2 on this link: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thesundayforum/1308517.html


I'm with the Army Expert and the Judge on this one and their views are 100% congruent with how I see Bujinkan training.

Short answer though: "It depends".

ScottStorm

My understanding is that you are supposed to give the intruder every opportunity to escape, warn them of your presence and not seek to detain them.

However personally I have a stun gun by my bed and a telescopic baton in my living room, were I to use them I don't think I would be in a position to call the guards to report the break in and would have to rely on the scummer that has since turned into my victim deciding not to report the incident to the police.

--amadeus--

My understanding is that a lot depends on premeditation.

If you have a baseball bat in your bedroom but have never played baseball and hit someone with it they can argue you planned to use it on any intruder. If though you had a nice, heavy maglight torch by the bed and hit an intruder with it its harder to prove premeditation (you could have teh torch in case of a powercut for example).

So MA weapons on display that you happen to grab to defend yourself...

cowzerp

I would defend my home with anything available and just say he was up stairs or just throw them in a ditch and say he never came near my home.

Defend your home and your family with all necessary tools.

mirwillbeback

Not sure of legal implications, but we were always told that if a caller ever came to the door to intimidate you in any way, ask them in saying you want no trouble, then mill them out of it, telling the gardai they tried to force their way in.

So far, never had a reason so hopefully it stays that way.

Richiecats

Do what ever it takes and worry about the after mouth later. Oh yea get a good lawer :pac:

FruitLover

If there's no body, there's no crime. Keep thick refuse sacks, duct tape, a bag of lime and a shovel handy at all times...

Baggio...

Depends on the circumstances... But whatever happens, be sure that you can justify your actions in a court of law. I don't think they will be to happy with people using any MA weapon (or any "weapon by design"). Also, confronting someone in you home would only be done as an absolute last resort. Get out with your family and phone the cops (if you can...).

Khannie

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

I think that's just the states. I was told that for the states 1 foot on the stairs = licence to kill.

Personally I don't keep any weapons nearby. I'd hate to think what I'd do if I thought my family were at risk though. Serious business that. Very primal.

xX Batman Xx

Khannie wrote: »

I think that's just the states. I was told that for the states 1 foot on the stairs = licence to kill.

Personally I don't keep any weapons nearby. I'd hate to think what I'd do if I thought my family were at risk though. Serious business that. Very primal.

Quickst TKO to Armbar ive ever seen ha ha ha

Dave Joyce

I would defend my home with anything available and just say he was up stairs or just throw them in a ditch and say he never came near my home.

Defend your home and your family with all necessary tools.

Absolute best quote so far, TOTALLY AGREE Cowzerp. However, there are a lot of preventive measures (which can be major deterrents) you can take BEFORE it comes to your door i.e. having a dog, decent outdoor lighting, CCTV and decent doors and locks. IF any intruder persists after this......... well then all bets are off. Finally, if you're gonna use weapons, then you better have done training with them. Imagine trying to use firearms if you've not been trained in their use.

In my past life as a prison officer i have spent a lot of time with the kind of people who want to come and take whats yours or mine, not always in the middle of the night, one of the things i have learned from them is the extreme level of violence some but not all will happily inflict because they can, they have decided before they break in that they are prepared to do this, so there is no second thoughts they will attack if challenged, so any house holder uming and arring hoping they will go away, could lose precious time in which to defend themselves, i think it's important to understand if a person has come in to your house they have made any decision for you, you hit 'em with everything you have and don't let yourself be a victim, also if they make it outside let them go, a court defense is difficult if you chase them down the road and bend them up while you wait for police, the police may arrest you for assault as i have seen in other cases, in the respect of a weapon i dare say it would be a diy tool that happens to be around because to have a purpose made weapon could be argued as being premeditated(as already posted), myself i have two bullmastiffs and a very moody wife :mad:so I'm OK, Gary.

Whyner

I practice my golf swing in my bedroom

Martin25

Be very careful with this one as the law may arrest you and you could go to jail for being too agressive macho etc!

Niall Keane

don't think you'd be thinking law during the immediacy of combat, especially if there are multiple opponents. there is a saying in the Tai Chi Chuan Classics:
"Many err forsaking what is near to pursue what is far."
The American legal model seems a lot more aware in this respect.

cletus

--amadeus-- wrote: »

My understanding is that a lot depends on premeditation.

If you have a baseball bat in your bedroom but have never played baseball and hit someone with it they can argue you planned to use it on any intruder. If though you had a nice, heavy maglight torch by the bed and hit an intruder with it its harder to prove premeditation (you could have teh torch in case of a powercut for example).

So MA weapons on display that you happen to grab to defend yourself...

this is the very reason i keep a 4 d-cell maglite beside my bed

getz

cletus wrote: »

this is the very reason i keep a 4 d-cell maglite beside my bed

this has allways been a big topic in the UK,dont use MA weapons,you can use a anything that is a domestic tool ie a poker,security men often carry around the big metel torches with them [like yours] and then tell the police,that i was being atacked,and i was defending myself,and get away with it.

cushtac

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

Nowhere in law is it mentioned where in your house are you permitted to defend yourself. What is established in law is that there is no onus on you to retreat whilst you are in your own home. Individual cases are heard on their own merits and the circumstances of the case (including location, the level of force you faced, the level of force you used etc.) would have to be considered.

leonkickboxing wrote: »

Ok so after i chop him to bits with my katanas ill drag his corps up stairs...happy days.
Thanks batman;)

The possession of a katana is illegal now, unless its an antique.

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Not sure of legal implications, but we were always told that if a caller ever came to the door to intimidate you in any way, ask them in saying you want no trouble, then mill them out of it, telling the gardai they tried to force their way in.

Don't do that.

Deisekickboxing

is it still ok to keep samauri swords at home?

koking

i think the old saying ''Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6''

If someone broke into my house i wouldnt want to be held responsible for my action

cushtac

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

is it still ok to keep samauri swords at home?

Nope, last criminal justice act outlawed them.

koking wrote: »

i think the old saying ''Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6''

If someone broke into my house i wouldnt want to be held responsible for my action

Everyone's responsible for their actions, if that's not remembered then decent people can find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

Pedro K

bungaro wrote: »

one of my buddies houses was broken into recently (no-one was home at the time) and we got into a discussion of what would happen if you were to use some martial arts weapons (he got a pair of nunchukus abroad a few years ago) to defend yourself against the attacker?? i know that your allowed have weapons as "decorations" in your own private residence but are there circumstances where you can use them?? like if u hit an attacker with a hurley is that alright since is not an actual weapon as opposed to hitting them with nunchucks which are specifically used to hurt???

Irish weapon laws are intentionally vague. Anything you hit an intruder with is immediately classed as a weapon, be it a hurl, nunchuks, sweeping brush or your burnt toast.

So the short answer to your question, what happens if you use weapons on somebody in your house.

You get arrested and convicted. End of.

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

Myth Myth Myth total Myth.

cushtac

Pedro K wrote: »

So the short answer to your question, what happens if you use weapons on somebody in your house.

You get arrested and convicted. End of.

That is not true, there are plenty of instances of people using weapons to defend themselves in their homes and avoiding prosecution.

bungaro

Pedro K wrote: »

Irish weapon laws are intentionally vague. Anything you hit an intruder with is immediately classed as a weapon, be it a hurl, nunchuks, sweeping brush or your burnt toast.

So the short answer to your question, what happens if you use weapons on somebody in your house.

You get arrested and convicted. End of.



Myth Myth Myth total Myth.

is that definite pedro?? thought i read somewhere that an intruder could claim they thought it was their own place (or whatever excuse) as long as they stayed on the ground floor as they should be able to tell the difference before going upstairs?! sounds daft i know but as you said the whole area is pretty vague

i take it so that it would be illegal to import weapons of any sort though even if they were only for display purposes. nice catch 22 situation there, you're allowed to have them at home but not allowed to bring them into the country!! those telescopic batons that the guards now have would do the job just fine

Pedro K

bungaro wrote: »

is that definite pedro?? thought i read somewhere that an intruder could claim they thought it was their own place (or whatever excuse) as long as they stayed on the ground floor as they should be able to tell the difference before going upstairs?! sounds daft i know but as you said the whole area is pretty vague

i take it so that it would be illegal to import weapons of any sort though even if they were only for display purposes. nice catch 22 situation there, you're allowed to have them at home but not allowed to bring them into the country!! those telescopic batons that the guards now have would do the job just fine

It's definite.

The (irish) law makes no distinction between the intruder being upstairs and downstairs.
No matter where they are in the house, you may use reasonable force to restrain them and protect your family and property.

Of course, the whole reasonable force thing is another argument for another day.

Pedro K

cushtac wrote: »

That is not true, there are plenty of instances of people using weapons to defend themselves in their homes and avoiding prosecution.

There's also plenty of cases of people dealing drugs, murdering people etc. and avoiding prosecution.

Just because someone avoids prosecution, doesn't make it not illegal.

Once you pick up a weapon the odds will be stacked against you. And then when it comes out that you're a trained martial artist (which I would imagine most of the people who browse this particular forum are) you will be in a very sticky situation.

xX Batman Xx

All im going to say is if someone came into my house I would firt try get out. If i cant i would grab the biggest thing next to me and hit him/her as ard as i could on the head, draged em outsige, tied em up and called the cops.

The put on the kettle and wait an hour for them to arrive.

Pedro K

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

All im going to say is if someone came into my house I would firt try get out. If i cant i would grab the biggest thing next to me and hit him/her as ard as i could on the head, draged em outsige, tied em up and called the cops.

The put on the kettle and wait an hour for them to arrive.

You were doin fine up until here. Calling the cops would basically be shooting yourself in the foot

xX Batman Xx

Pedro K wrote: »

You were doin fine up until here. Calling the cops would basically be shooting yourself in the foot

Oh by the way, A few weeks ago a house in Newbrider got robbed and the father and son came downstairs and beat the robbers up, The robber ran away. They called the garuds.

Later on that night the robbers came back and threw a pertol bomb through the window and killed the fater sadly.

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Fears-that-fatal-Newbridge-fire.5710563.jp

I know it dosent say it there but it was later confirmed.

cushtac

Pedro K wrote: »

There's also plenty of cases of people dealing drugs, murdering people etc. and avoiding prosecution.

That has nothing to do with the issue of self-defence.

Pedro K wrote: »

Just because someone avoids prosecution, doesn't make it not illegal.

Self-defence, with or without a weapon, is not illegal. Where people face prosecution in self-defence situations is where there are questions over the circumstances of the case.

There have been several cases where people have used weapons during the defence of their homes, including firearms, and have been found not guilty in court. There have been several more similar cases where the DPP has directed that there was no case for people in question to answer. In all such cases the actions of the people involved were therefore legal.

Pedro K wrote: »

Once you pick up a weapon the odds will be stacked against you. And then when it comes out that you're a trained martial artist (which I would imagine most of the people who browse this particular forum are) you will be in a very sticky situation.

Certainly any use of a weapon in a self-defence situation is serious, but such use does not necessarily result in arrest and conviction as you claimed.

Baggio...

cushtac wrote: »

Certainly any use of a weapon in a self-defence situation is serious, but such use does not necessarily result in arrest and conviction as you claimed.

I'd say his is a much more accurate assessment of the situation...

Dyr

I'd say cushtac is the only person who is'nt presenting personal opinion as facts.

Bres

If someone breaks into your home i wouldn't go running at them with a hurl, as most of the responses seem to be aimed at... you've got to assume they have a weapon of some sort... they used something to get in... one of my friends houses got broken into just for their car, the robbers came in the back door cutting out the glass and picked up a hammer that was in the garage and went through the kitchen to the hall where they lifted the keys then left leaving the hammer on the kitchen table... needless to say they got a fright when they went down for breakfast in the morning...
I just wouldn't like to run at someone with a hurl only to get a hammer thrown in my face...

Big fat warden

Bres wrote: »

If someone breaks into your home i wouldn't go running at them with a hurl, as most of the responses seem to be aimed at... you've got to assume they have a weapon of some sort... they used something to get in... one of my friends houses got broken into just for their car, the robbers came in the back door cutting out the glass and picked up a hammer that was in the garage and went through the kitchen to the hall where they lifted the keys then left leaving the hammer on the kitchen table... needless to say they got a fright when they went down for breakfast in the morning...
I just wouldn't like to run at someone with a hurl only to get a hammer thrown in my face...

Why not shoot him in the face, fire a shot into the roof, and when the lads arrive say you fired a warning shot, but he just kept coming. Your honour!

cowzerp

Big fat warden wrote: »

Why not shoot him in the face, fire a shot into the roof, and when the lads arrive say you fired a warning shot, but he just kept coming. Your honour!

since when did hurls have bullets? must be the new type ones!

Boston

Big fat warden wrote: »

Why not shoot him in the face, fire a shot into the roof, and when the lads arrive say you fired a warning shot, but he just kept coming. Your honour!

That's pretty reckless. Bullets continue to travel after you've stopped being able to see them.

Bres

Big fat warden wrote: »

Why not shoot him in the face, fire a shot into the roof, and when the lads arrive say you fired a warning shot, but he just kept coming. Your honour!

guess thats the problem solved then lads, if everyone just takes this advice we've nothing to worry about... except maybe a dead wife, child or sibling that was still in bed asleep upstairs... and a small hole in the roof which will probably cost more to fix then the contents the burglar was going to take... but atleast you've got your honour!

kwalshe

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

You cant touch them if there downstairs.... If they come upstairs raise hell on them....

What if i like in a bungalow

arybvtcw0eolkf

xX Batman Xx wrote: »

All im going to say is if someone came into my house I would firt try get out. If i cant i would grab the biggest thing next to me and hit him/her as ard as i could on the head, draged em outsige, tied em up and called the cops.

.

What if the nearest & biggest thing was a bunk bed?.

This IMO really is one of the silliest threads ever in this forum, but hey who am I to stop you all running off with wild imaginations!.

Continue :P

Boston

The up stairs thing is simply that someone is in close proximity to where you sleep and chances are a) The only way to withdraw (which you are required to do) is through the person, or b) they are an immediate danger to other members of the household. The upstairs bit just makes it easier to claim self defence

cushtac

Boston wrote: »

The up stairs thing is simply that someone is in close proximity to where you sleep and chances are a) The only way to withdraw (which you are required to do) is through the person, or b) they are an immediate danger to other members of the household. The upstairs bit just makes it easier to claim self defence

You are not required to retreat in your own home.

cushtac

Baggio... wrote: »

I'd say his is a much more accurate assessment of the situation...

As as Garda speaking from personal experience I can tell you it's not.

Big fat warden

Bres wrote: »

guess thats the problem solved then lads, if everyone just takes this advice we've nothing to worry about... except maybe a dead wife, child or sibling that was still in bed asleep upstairs... and a small hole in the roof which will probably cost more to fix then the contents the burglar was going to take... but atleast you've got your honour!

Jeez, talk about taking yourself serious! I was joking loike.......ya sanctimonius knob....

Baggio...

cushtac wrote: »

As as Garda speaking from personal experience I can tell you it's not.

You've lost me there... I was agreeing with one of your original posts.