Completely screwed over on house deal by bank...

upthecake

Folks,

You won't believe this but its one to watch out for. In the last 4 weeks i have been chasing a house for sale. Finally after a lot of saving and bidding our offer was accepted. We went to the estate agent and got a letter of acceptance of our bid and paid the booking fee etc so of course we opened the bubbly in celebration.

After 2 weeks of traveling the country looking at kitchens and tiles blah blah blah we got a very alarming phone call this morning from the estate agent who advised us that the bank who owns the house as a receiver was appointed to the house originally got a better offer directly to them and they accepted this offer.
In 2 days the offer was accepted and contracts were drawn up and a cash deposit of 80k was handed in. Contracts were signed and the house is now sold and off the market.
This has all happened without a single contact from the bank / estate agent and we never got a chance to place another bid... Surely ethics are completely chucked out the window here ans something can be done..

The estate agent seems completely shocked as this is not normal process and apparently not normal practice.

OK so after 3 or 4 hours when my feet touched the ground i rang my solicitor and to my shock i was told as i had not signed my contract i did not have a leg to stand on. No matter what i asked about how under handed the whole process had been i got absolutely nowhere. Speaking to a friend who is a solicitor he has also told me THE WHOLE THING STINKS OF AN INSIDE JOB...

YOU have NO protection until a contract is signed which means they can do what they want even after they have accepted your bid etc.

I'm not happy to say the least and am not going to take it on the chin as i'm fed up with the Banks etc. taking the piss and taking me for a ride.

I need some serious advice on what i can do next as to me it was defo a friend looking after a friend within the bank..As a house sale leaves a trail of who bought it , land registry etc i feel i can do a little investigation myself to see who has f*cked us over.
I would love to have this story published and investigated as these ba*tards
hold all the cards and us mere mortals don't mean ****...

I want to name and shame which i intend to do if i cannot get anywhere...
<snip>

Now i need advice on where to go from here or who would be interested in checking out this story and investigating to see of any wrong doing.

Please please please help as we have to start standing up to these hot shots who's wages and bonus we are paying !!

Is this what we deserve for bailing them out ????????

Nody

So let me sum it up, you did not sign a contract, they have not done anything illegal (as confirmed by two independent solicitors by yourself) AND you want to name and shame them because you're pissed and think it has to be illegal because you don't like it.

Might I suggest you actually listens to the solicitors before you get yourself into trouble because you're trying to find out about something and then more or less slander them in public.

upthecake

Nody, more upset than pissed off really i just think that someone walked in off the street and bid x more which was quite a bit and then arrived in with 80k in cash as a deposit seems very dodgy indeed.. Would you not feel this is a bit strange ??

Sound to me like someone in the banks friend was looked after and i was f*cked over..Forgive me if i have feelings but that was sore i have to say...

Even the solicitors and agent and bank who have given me the cash to buy have all told me it stinks and to pursue it and its dodgy out...

This all comes from the professionals ??

What i want to know is why am i not protected in some way as in many other countries a bid on paper is a legal binding contract.

Only in Ireland yet again we have some ****ty laws that protect the fat cats and not the consumer... We bail the banks out and they still f*ck me over..

Well if thats the thanks i get i have a right to be aggrieved ?

Sponge Bob

You are correct and it is an inside job. The house was repossessed and somebody in the bank made sure it went to a mate/family member/themselves as quickly as possible and did not give you an opportunity to bid again and raise the price.

The good news for you is that this bank official deliberately defrauded their own employer . You should complain to a high up in that bank and to a board member . I am sure the bank has been left with a loss on the repossession and that the loss is greater than it otherwise could be had you paid more for the house.

Secondly there is the person from whom it was repossessed, they now owe the bank MORE that they need to as your bid was lower than it could have been. They have a case against that bank too and they are well within their rights to complain to the financial regulator about it because they were defrauded too.

The number of houses repossessed by what are a very small group of employees within banks is quite large now and as the bank wants rid of them at any cost they are not checking what their own employees are up to .

I suspect some bank official is on a nice little earner , great they way they got the contracts out so fast for that final bid wasn't it .

No wonder the banks are ****ed with fraudsters like this on their payroll.

Piriz

i thought it was breech of contract law till i heard your solicitor friend etc confirmed it wasn't...it still sounds like a breech of protocol to contractual procedures however, ...i'd investigate further..you are damn right to be aggrieved with this, a breech of protocol deserves an explanation in my opinion and someone internally might grant you an investigation if you go over the heads of the people you were dealing with initially, which i recommend you do! this is not good PR for this bank if these are the practices they follow..it might not be illegal but i doubt its condoned..well thats my opinion from your story..i hope you can investigate further and tell us more!

upthecake

sponge bob...
I have been waiting nearly 2 weeks for a contract but within 24 hours they can issue and sign a new contract for the higher bidder!!

This situation sinks !!! In most other countries when an offer is accepted it is considered a binding contract!!
Ireland would want to catch up with the rest of the world.... and stop lining the pockets of the politicians that are ruining this country!!
Since all the banks and the politicians are BFF's...

Tell me why, I was not given the chance to match or better the higher offer??

upthecake

Piriz,
Your positive comments are much appreciated and this is exactly what I intend on doing first thing in the morning!!
I have even gone as far as contacting the Matt Cooper show and they were very interested in the whole situation!

Will update as things progress!!

Cabaal

upthecake wrote: »

This situation sinks !!! In most other countries when an offer is accepted it is considered a binding contract!!

Now now this isn't true at all, the setup in the UK regarding selling houses sucks compared to Ireland where in the UK things can change at the very last min unless you literally get the keys in your hand and contracts are signed.

In your cause a contract is a contract when its signed, not before.

sunnysoutheast

"YOU have NO protection until a contract is signed which means they can do what they want even after they have accepted your bid etc."

Well, exactly. Good luck to you, but you will have an insurmountable task proving anything, IMHO.

Regarding the UK, there is a massive difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK. In Scotland once an offer is accepted it is legally binding, in the rest of the UK nothing is confirmed until contracts are exchanged.

SSE

herya

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Well, exactly. Good luck to you, but you will have an insurmountable task proving anything, IMHO

I wouldn't expect the OP to get the house but if they have a chance of exposing some internal bank scam I'd say go for it. It's shameful that some individuals will use others' miserable situation (house repossession) for their personal gain.

mikemac

upthecake wrote: »

Ireland would want to catch up with the rest of the world.... and stop lining the pockets of the politicians that are ruining this country!!

Remembering back to my law course, the law on sale of land (and the house that sits on the land) goes back to the 16th or 17th century.
Without a signed contract you have nothing, the seller can tell you to feck off and return any deposit. And you can do the same to the seller.
"Sale agreed" means very, very little.

Check out your legal options but you will get nowhere here I'm afraid. You were outbid but the good news in six months times I predict you'll get a better house for less.
Though this was a repossessed house so it might have been a great deal

Your best bet is to contact the bank on their procedures. Why didn't they give you a chance to respond to the new bid??

sunnysoutheast

herya wrote: »

I wouldn't expect the OP to get the house but if they have a chance of exposing some internal bank scam I'd say go for it. It's shameful that some individuals will use others' miserable situation (house repossession) for their personal gain.

If I were you I would be very wary of bandying terms like "scam" around. My reading of the situation is that the bank received a higher offer for the house in question which they have accepted and processed quickly.

FWIW I've bought houses at auction in the past and it's normal practice to have to pay the deposit in cash the day after. This was often more than 80k.

SSE

herya

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

If I were you I would be very wary of bandying terms like "scam" around. My reading of the situation is that the bank received a higher offer for the house in question which they have accepted and processed quickly.

Cheers that's why I put "if" in

dudara

upthecake wrote: »

I want to name and shame which i intend to do if i cannot get anywhere..

You will do no such thing on this forum.

First of all, calm down. Secondly, read Sponge Bob's post if you are going to persue any course of action.

Sponge Bob

Do not name and shame , the bank shareholders and the taxpayer who is funding the NAMA insanity have been diddled ....not strictly you. You are collateral damage in all of this .

Get your revenge through a board member or senior manager . Sweeetheart deals on bank assets are a scam ...perpetrated by one of their employees.

Of couse they should have got back to you to see if you would increase your offer but offers have no status in Irish law , only signed contracts do.

upthecake

Sponge Bob,

The course of action you mention is exactly what i intend to do as they should not get away with it. Honestly it a real rip off....

I understand the mods concern of name and shame so i'll be aware of this.

I also will post the replys i receive so its clear to all just exactly whats going on..

Surely as we are going to bail this bank out someone in Government would be interested in this also ??

Where can i find out the board members details of this bank and government etc. ?

Again my bank who have been excellent through all this have advised me not to let it go as its highly irregular dealing....

Sponge Bob

Stay away from TDs , this is an internal issue ....for now .

Of course if they deny everything that is a different matter but do assume that banks take internal fraud seriously and most especially if you bring it to the board and they delegate a manager to investigate . Writing a letter to the CEO ( registered post) is another way to do it but I would try Board and then CEO in that order.

Stick to the facts and try to see what happens , do update us after a while because I would be interested.

Make contact with the person from whom the house was repossessed and tell them the story ...either after the investigation starts or they deny everything, whatever comes first .

dudara

All the names of the directors will in the bank's annual report. This should be available on their website.

MOH

Leaving aside for a minute the fact that it was a bank selling the house, this kind of thing was going on all the time before the recession. People put bids on houses, had them accepted, thought they had the deal, then got gazumped at the last minute because they hadn't signed the deal and the vendors got a better offer. The fact that in this particular case the house happens to be owned by a bank isn't really relevant.

Yes, it stinks, but that's the way the system works.

Out of curiosity, why did you leave it for two weeks before signing contracts or paying a deposit? It is possible the sellers thought you either weren't serious about the deal or were having trouble raising the money (and given it's already being looked at by a receiver they'd be wary of getting stung twice).

upthecake

Out of curiosity, why did you leave it for two weeks before signing contracts or paying a deposit?

The bank never sent my solicitor the contracts so this is why i feel something or someone else had an eye on the property...It just happens they can draw uo contracts within 24hrs for a new bidder ??? It tells its own story..:mad:

foggy_lad

MOH wrote: »

Leaving aside for a minute the fact that it was a bank selling the house, this kind of thing was going on all the time before the recession. People put bids on houses, had them accepted, thought they had the deal, then got gazumped at the last minute because they hadn't signed the deal and the vendors got a better offer. The fact that in this particular case the house happens to be owned by a bank isn't really relevant.

Yes, it stinks, but that's the way the system works.

Out of curiosity, why did you leave it for two weeks before signing contracts or paying a deposit? It is possible the sellers thought you either weren't serious about the deal or were having trouble raising the money (and given it's already being looked at by a receiver they'd be wary of getting stung twice).

in the gazumping that went on during the boom years the buyer that was gazumped was usually contacted by the estate agents and asked if they wanted to increase their offer, in this case it would appear the new offer was accepted and the whole process fast-tracked to contracts being signed maybe to prevent further offers?

sounds very much like someone within the bank or known to the bank in question showed an interest in buying the property and maybe your offer was held/delayed from having contracts signed until this other party had raised enough to beat your offer.

upthecake

foggy_lad wrote: »

sounds very much like someone within the bank or known to the bank in question showed an interest in buying the property and maybe your offer was held/delayed from having contracts signed until this other party had raised enough to beat your offer.

This is exactly my thoughts... It is a disgrace this cannot be followed up thought and some enquiry followed to protects buyers from the sharks within the banks....

If this has been a common issue why was it never tackled and something put in place to protect buyers ??

Typical Ireland !!

upthecake

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Stay away from TDs , this is an internal issue ....for now .

Of course if they deny everything that is a different matter but do assume that banks take internal fraud seriously and most especially if you bring it to the board and they delegate a manager to investigate . Writing a letter to the CEO ( registered post) is another way to do it but I would try Board and then CEO in that order.

Stick to the facts and try to see what happens , do update us after a while because I would be interested.

Make contact with the person from whom the house was repossessed and tell them the story ...either after the investigation starts or they deny everything, whatever comes first .

OK guys, 1st approaches made today with the Bank and the Receivers..
Both managers have said they will investigate and come back to me within 24hrs...fingers crossed but i have a feeling they'll have a laugh about it, cover it somehow and then give me the poor mouth !!

Again this is something i could not accept as something dodgy has gone on here..

The bank has informed me that they could be out of pocket as due course was not followed by asking me or telling me about new offer...I was not allowed a counter bid and as the bank are paying a receiver to do a job then they are not doing it very well ..

OK i'm pushing on with other avenue's ..

Can i bring this to the press / Joe Duffy etc.. ???

niceirishfella

upthecake wrote: »

YOU have NO protection until a contract is signed which means they can do what they want even after they have accepted your bid etc.

Old news, welcome to the world of gazumping!:o

dudara

upthecake wrote: »

OK guys, 1st approaches made today with the Bank and the Receivers..
Both managers have said they will investigate and come back to me within 24hrs...fingers crossed but i have a feeling they'll have a laugh about it, cover it somehow and then give me the poor mouth !!

Again this is something i could not accept as something dodgy has gone on here..

The bank has informed me that they could be out of pocket as due course was not followed by asking me or telling me about new offer...I was not allowed a counter bid and as the bank are paying a receiver to do a job then they are not doing it very well ..

OK i'm pushing on with other avenue's ..

Can i bring this to the press / Joe Duffy etc.. ???

That sounds like a good start. Give the bank a chance to investigate first before going near press etc. The Fiancial Regulator (for what it's worth) should also be on your list of institutes to approach.