Fender jazz master

DeadMoney

Hey any fender heads out there be able to tell me about the jazz master in terms of being a more alternative sounding instrument than a tele or strat. It seems to be favoured by a lot of alternative indie bands throughout the 90's and today. I have a 72 thinline tele which I am not too happy with. Beautiful looking guitar but just doen't seem too versatile and I think the jazz master might be more suitable for alternative playing.
Any views on this?
Thanks

rcaz

What sort of stuff are you into?

I have a Jazzmaster, and I love it to bits. I got mine because I'm a big fan of Nels Cline, Kevin Shields, Steven Drozd, Ronald Jones, Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo, to name a few. I bought a Japanese one online, saving about €500 compared to a shop (this was around two years ago, I think places in Dublin have copped on since then). The Japanese ones are great, but they don't have proper Jazzmaster pickups, and the vibrato spring/collet/entire unit is pretty weak, and the electronics are a little cheaper than the AVRI models. I'm in the process of building up some money for new pickups, new electronics and an AVRI vibrato unit, which will make the guitar almost perfect imo

The pickups that come in a CIJ Jazzmaster are more similar to strat pickups, but proper JM pickups are shallow and fill up the entire pickup enclosure.

What guage strings do you play? You've probably heard a lot of people complaining about the Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge, saying that the strings won't stay in place - The Jazzmaster was designed in the 50s for jazz players, when guage 12 strings were considered light, and most people played around 13s. People now put 9s or 10s on their JMs, and it's no surprise they can't get the strings to stay in place. I have 12s on mine, and it's perfect.

A lot of people get Mustang or Tune-O-Matic/Adjust-O-Matic bridges, file down some deeper grooves in the stock JM bridge, or get on the waiting list for the Mastery bridge, but with a good setup, heavy strings, and if you really must, a neck shim, the stock one works fine.

It's definitely a guitar you have to work with - I found my Telecaster is easy to play from the day I took it home, and obviously Teles are dead simple to set up, Jazzmasters are more complicated, and have a bit of a teething period, in my experience.

As far as it being 'alternative-sounding', well I think that's a kinda silly thing to say. It only sounds the way you make it sound, and if you want to sound 'alternative', you can make any guitar sound that way. That said, the JM allows some extended technique, like playing behind the bridge (Sonic Youth) or bending whole chords as you strum (My Bloody Valentine).

Have a look at this forum, I can't recommend it enough. Best place on the internet for offset Fenders.

Get one, you won't regret it

DeadMoney

El Pr0n wrote: »

What sort of stuff are you into?

I have a Jazzmaster, and I love it to bits. I got mine because I'm a big fan of Nels Cline, Kevin Shields, Steven Drozd, Ronald Jones, Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo, to name a few. I bought a Japanese one online, saving about €500 compared to a shop (this was around two years ago, I think places in Dublin have copped on since then). The Japanese ones are great, but they don't have proper Jazzmaster pickups, and the vibrato spring/collet/entire unit is pretty weak, and the electronics are a little cheaper than the AVRI models. I'm in the process of building up some money for new pickups, new electronics and an AVRI vibrato unit, which will make the guitar almost perfect imo

The pickups that come in a CIJ Jazzmaster are more similar to strat pickups, but proper JM pickups are shallow and fill up the entire pickup enclosure.

What guage strings do you play? You've probably heard a lot of people complaining about the Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge, saying that the strings won't stay in place - The Jazzmaster was designed in the 50s for jazz players, when guage 12 strings were considered light, and most people played around 13s. People now put 9s or 10s on their JMs, and it's no surprise they can't get the strings to stay in place. I have 12s on mine, and it's perfect.

A lot of people get Mustang or Tune-O-Matic/Adjust-O-Matic bridges, file down some deeper grooves in the stock JM bridge, or get on the waiting list for the Mastery bridge, but with a good setup, heavy strings, and if you really must, a neck shim, the stock one works fine.

It's definitely a guitar you have to work with - I found my Telecaster is easy to play from the day I took it home, and obviously Teles are dead simple to set up, Jazzmasters are more complicated, and have a bit of a teething period, in my experience.

As far as it being 'alternative-sounding', well I think that's a kinda silly thing to say. It only sounds the way you make it sound, and if you want to sound 'alternative', you can make any guitar sound that way. That said, the JM allows some extended technique, like playing behind the bridge (Sonic Youth) or bending whole chords as you strum (My Bloody Valentine).

Have a look at this forum, I can't recommend it enough. Best place on the internet for offset Fenders.

Get one, you won't regret it

Hey thanks for all that great info mate! Yeah you had me at Nels Cline, he would be the main influence behind me wanting one of these guitars. I played at a new years party with some friends last year and one of the songs we learned was impossible germany by wilco. My friend gave me his jazz master cheap knock off as it had a tremelo bar where as the tele didn't so I used it for that song and despite the fact it wasn't even a real jazz master I preferred the sound than my tele and just found it to be more punchy and a fatter sound. Just felt more versatile to play also and I am more of a sonic youth, dinosaur jr, steve malkmus style guitar player than more traditional bluesy sounding stuff that the tele might be more suited to. That being said I know you can make any guitar sound 'alternative' but it just seems the JM is favoured by a lot of the guitar players I am influenced by such as those you mentioned above.

What do you think of this model as it is the one I have been looking at.
http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/EUR/Fender-Jazzmaster-Classic-Player-Sp.-RW-3-Color-Sunburst-inkl.-Bag/art-GIT0013832-000

rcaz

I don't like the classic player series. They move the vibrato unit closer to the bridge to increase the break angle over it, which increases the downforce on the bridge, which does help with the rattling problems, but in my opinion, it's not really a Jazzmaster anymore Part of the charm for me (and Nels, Thurston and Lee ) is all that lovely space behind the bridge. Like I said, with some care and heavy strings, you won't need it.

Also, that has a 9.5 radius neck, a proper JM has a 7.25 radius. You may prefer the more modern 9.5 neck, but it's not a proper JM neck.

The Classic Players have adjust-o-matic bridges in them, which you may like, but again, not a proper JM!

I don't know what the pickups are like on the Classic Player JMs, but the Classic Player Jaguars have humbuckers in them, so maybe they bastardised the Jazzmaster too

But all this is just my opinion! The Classic Player guitars are modernised Jazzmasters, which some people would love (lots of people seem to want Jazzmasters without having to put up with the little extra loving they might require). But Nels Cline, J. Mascis, Steven Malkmus, they all play vintage guitars, with proper pickups, 7.25 necks, etc. Although Nels now uses Mastery bridges, and J. Mascis uses tune-o-matics/adjust-o-matics. I don't know too much about Malkmus. And bringing Sonic Youth into a conversation about preserving guitars' characters is sorta ridiculous

I have this one, except with a blocks-and-binding neck.

DeadMoney

Thanks again, I can see the difference betwwen the classic player and the other model now. I am a total newby to jazz masters so it is great that I am able to get this advice as I honestly wouldn'thave known there was a difference. So, the model you have is relatively cheap which is great as I assumed a classic model would cost more. Why is whitey cheaper, is this not the exact same?
http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/EUR/Fender-Classic-62-Jazzmaster-RW-Vintage-White-Japan/art-GIT0005067-006

I was watching the flaming lips movie 'the fearless freaks' lastnight and I noticed there old guitarist from the 90's Ronald Jones is playing a jazz master. He is also an excellent noisy and experimental guitarist. Thats enough proof for me, I want one!!

punchdrunk

recorded on a jazzmaster

Seziertisch

DeadMoney wrote: »

Thanks again, I can see the difference betwwen the classic player and the other model now. I am a total newby to jazz masters so it is great that I am able to get this advice as I honestly wouldn'thave known there was a difference. So, the model you have is relatively cheap which is great as I assumed a classic model would cost more. Why is whitey cheaper, is this not the exact same?
http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/EUR/Fender-Classic-62-Jazzmaster-RW-Vintage-White-Japan/art-GIT0005067-006

I was watching the flaming lips movie 'the fearless freaks' lastnight and I noticed there old guitarist from the 90's Ronald Jones is playing a jazz master. He is also an excellent noisy and experimental guitarist. Thats enough proof for me, I want one!!

Personally, I think the Japanese Jazzmasters are guitars with great potential but there is a bit of work required before they reach that. As was mentioned above, the pickups are not even Jazzmaster pickups and the stock bridge is kind of problematic. If you can budget for a Mastery Bridge and a set of replacement pickups (Novaks get a lot of love) then you will have a great playing and sounding instrument. Also the stock wiring configuration on Jazzmasters is not necessarily for everyone. A friend of mine changed over to something more resembling what you would find in a Strat or Tele (in terms of pot values) and much preferred it.

DeadMoney

Seziertisch wrote: »

Personally, I think the Japanese Jazzmasters are guitars with great potential but there is a bit of work required before they reach that. As was mentioned above, the pickups are not even Jazzmaster pickups and the stock bridge is kind of problematic. If you can budget for a Mastery Bridge and a set of replacement pickups (Novaks get a lot of love) then you will have a great playing and sounding instrument. Also the stock wiring configuration on Jazzmasters is not necessarily for everyone. A friend of mine changed over to something more resembling what you would find in a Strat or Tele (in terms of pot values) and much preferred it.

Bit confused here. So to get the real sound of a jazz master I would either have to customize a new one by getting new pick ups and a different bridge? I am assuming buying an old one with these features already in place would be very expensive? To be honest I am not a guitar tech head and I know very little about dynamics of guitars such as bridges, stock, pick ups etc. I have been playing for many years though so have developed my own style which would be similar to the style of playing of many of the 90's bands who use the jazz master. I have always noticed that many of these players share this instrument in common but never really bothered to switch my telecaster. Lately though I am a bit unhappy with the sound of my tele and since most of my influences use a JM I would really like to start playing one. Would the classic 62' JM without a mastery bridge or different pick ups not sound like a JM so or is it just not at its purist?

Seziertisch

DeadMoney wrote: »

Bit confused here. So to get the real sound of a jazz master I would either have to customize a new one by getting new pick ups and a different bridge? I am assuming buying an old one with these features already in place would be very expensive? To be honest I am not a guitar tech head and I know very little about dynamics of guitars such as bridges, stock, pick ups etc. I have been playing for many years though so have developed my own style which would be similar to the style of playing of many of the 90's bands who use the jazz master. I have always noticed that many of these players share this instrument in common but never really bothered to switch my telecaster. Lately though I am a bit unhappy with the sound of my tele and since most of my influences use a JM I would really like to start playing one. Would the classic 62' JM without a mastery bridge or different pick ups not sound like a JM so or is it just not at its purist?

Jazzmaster pickups have a unique construction different from really any other. They are like a cross between a Strat pickup and a P-90. They have quite a unique sound. The reissues (except for the American ones) come with a Strat style pickup under the cover.

As for the bridge, take a read of this http://www.jag-stang.com/JaguarHtml/bridgeMod.php It was standard practise to replace the bridge with a Mustang bridge, but for all intents and purposes the Mastery seems to be the optimum choice. If you are going to replace it you may as well go the whole hog.

DeadMoney

Seziertisch wrote: »

Jazzmaster pickups have a unique construction different from really any other. They are like a cross between a Strat pickup and a P-90. They have quite a unique sound. The reissues (except for the American ones) come with a Strat style pickup under the cover.

As for the bridge, take a read of this http://www.jag-stang.com/JaguarHtml/bridgeMod.php It was standard practise to replace the bridge with a Mustang bridge, but for all intents and purposes the Mastery seems to be the optimum choice. If you are going to replace it you may as well go the whole hog.

Thanks for the link. So you are saying that this is pretty much essential to change the bridge? The mastery ones are around €135 so it is not too expensive as the guitar itself it below €800 new. Replacing the pick ups though sounds expensive.

Seziertisch

Pickup replacement shouldn't be that expensive. You can even do them one at a time.

Otherwise, this might be of interest http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=143737&cat=16

Although, I have heard both the Seymour Duncan and Novak JM pickups and thought the Novak were a lot better. That said, the Duncans are a lot better than stock. That said, as far as I know, the Japanese JMs with matching finish on the headstock are the more desirable older models (though I could be wrong on this).

rcaz

For accuracy's sake, Ronald Jones played a Jaguar

The white guitar is cheaper because painting it one solid colour is less labour-intensive than layering the three colours for sunburst.

I really want to stress that the stock bridge isn't problematic, it's just designed for different setups than the usual modern guitar.

punchdrunk

El Pr0n wrote: »

For accuracy's sake, Ronald Jones played a Jaguar

The white guitar is cheaper because painting it one solid colour is less labour-intensive than layering the three colours for sunburst.

I really want to stress that the stock bridge isn't problematic, it's just designed for different setups than the usual modern guitar.

it's Steve from the lips who rocks the jazzmaster

rcaz

punchdrunk wrote: »

it's Steve from the lips who rocks the jazzmaster

No musician has influenced me more than Steven Drozd

DeadMoney

Agghhh this is getting too much to take. I would follow Stephen Drozd over a bridge. I want a jazz master now!

rcaz

I would say, if you really think you want one, get one. Get one knowing it'll be a bit of a fixer-upper. Change the strings, learn to set up the bridge, and start setting some money aside for new pickups and maybe a new vibrato. You will have a great guitar at the end of it

Steven's JM isn't a totally authentic Jazzmaster, either. Wayne put a Hot Rails in the bridge in the early/mid 90s - Wayne always just played Steven's guitar onstage when Steven was still playing the drums live, and he took the initiative of putting the new pickup in.

punchdrunk

I seem to remember wayne with a sherwood green three pickup modded jag?

rcaz

punchdrunk wrote: »

I seem to remember wayne with a sherwood green three pickup modded jag?

He's only started playing that relatively recenty (since At War With The Mystics), and AFAIK only for one song (Vein Of Stars). He played the JM up until around The Soft Bulletin, when they started to use backing tracks for drums (and other stuff), which freed up Steven.