"Green Collar" jobs, moving to China too...

ei.sdraob

we keep hearing of this great new Green eCONomy (which i think is another bubble in the making)

how is Ireland meant to compete in this area when lower cost countries like UK and US are loosing "green" jobs to China?

* Britain's only wind turbine plant to close

* GE to close its only US solar panel factory


how can Ireland compete in anything when China has endless supply of cheap labor?

jimmmy

If only we could export our trade union leaders oput there to F**K up their economy / give our economy a chance ! lol lol

As Davis McWilliams reavealed on his programme , its the small saver in China, living in relative primitive comnditions, but who is saving a few dollars a day out of his pitiful wage, who is lending money to the west. Our trade union leaders want to exploit these people further by arguing we should borrow more for longer, ensuring our public service remains the highest paid in the known world for a long as possible.

ei.sdraob

uhm yeh if you want a better perspective on China read Nial Ferguson's articles on "Chimerica" or his documentaries, he bet DMcW to it by few years

lol at exporting our Union leaders, somehow i think they would fit perfectly into a "communist" elite hierarchy

doolox

China may have a large pool of cheap labour now but this won't last for ever.
In the long haul European wages will have to come down and it is inevitable that China's will rise as people get smarter and demand more. Even the physical fact that they have to put a roof over their heads, buy heating oil etc from world resources means that they cannot keep on low wages forever.
What the world community should be looking for is a common policy on government and corporate governance and accountability and a certain amount of democracy in every part of the world. While China is a communist one party state it will be able to dictate low wages to its people and compete unfairly with the west. On the other hand, countries with too much freedom have seen jobs disappear through strikes and unreasonable wage demands or short term planning by management which is now causing this recession.
World corporate businesses have shipped most of their jobs to cheap labour economies thus bankrupting the very customers they had depended on to buy their goods and wonder why things are bad? Nobody in a shaky job is going to buy large-scale goods such as cars or houses and consumer goods will be cut to the bone as everyone fears for their jobs.
A certain balance is needed so that the ordinary people can feel secure enough in their jobs to start buying again.
In the meantime Chinas low-wage low price economy has made clothes and shoes affordable by most people. We don't have the rags and bare-feet of 1930's style poverty thankfully.

ei.sdraob

some interesting reading

looks R&D is going east too

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/14/india-rd-hub-silicon-valley/

Intel India designs the new 6core Xeon, while Intel Ireland gets to do what?

wasper

jimmmy wrote: »

If only we could export our trade union leaders oput there to F**K up their economy / give our economy a chance ! lol lol

If we want to bring China down we should send our Politicians, the merchant bankers & the developers that brought this country down to it's knees.

Diarmuid

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Intel India designs the new 6core Xeon, while Intel Ireland gets to do what?

Intel have been building up a design team in Shannon for a few months now. Not sure what application but they are expanding in a very specialised niche.

eoinbn

ei.sdraob wrote: »

some interesting reading

looks R&D is going east too

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/14/india-rd-hub-silicon-valley/

Intel India designs the new 6core Xeon, while Intel Ireland gets to do what?

R&D moves to where the best people are, not the cheapest. Intel's main R&D hub is currently Israel as that is where they found the best people.

ei.sdraob

true but "best" people are mobile too

ei.sdraob

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/AR2010022503945.html

quite an interesting article

looks like this "smart green" economy wont solve any unemployment problems and if anything make it worse

Macha

ei.sdraob wrote: »

we keep hearing of this great new Green eCONomy (which i think is another bubble in the making)

how is Ireland meant to compete in this area when lower cost countries like UK and US are loosing "green" jobs to China?

* Britain's only wind turbine plant to close

* GE to close its only US solar panel factory


how can Ireland compete in anything when China has endless supply of cheap labor?

If you read into the Vestas story, you'll see that their main complaint was the UK's slow planning process. Wind turbine manufacturers prefer to make or assemble their turbines in the country they're going to be installed. Their large size makes transport very cost-prohibitive.

There is no reason why Ireland cannot have a significant turbine manufacturing industry here. O&M and other services (financial, legal etc) are also very difficult to outsource.

ei.sdraob

taconnol wrote: »

If you read into the Vestas story, you'll see that their main complaint was the UK's slow planning process. Wind turbine manufacturers prefer to make or assemble their turbines in the country they're going to be installed. Their large size makes transport very cost-prohibitive.

There is no reason why Ireland cannot have a significant turbine manufacturing industry here. O&M and other services (financial, legal etc) are also very difficult to outsource.

yes and we have a very fast planning process in Ireland :rolleyes:

Macha

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yes and we have a very fast planning process in Ireland :rolleyes:

Such optimism is truly refreshing.

Yes, the planning process will have to improve. But there are significant movements, including the transfer of the Foreshore licensing duty from Dept of Agriculture to the Dept of Energy.

ei.sdraob

taconnol wrote: »

Such optimism is truly refreshing.

Yes, the planning process will have to improve. But there are significant movements, including the transfer of the Foreshore licensing duty from Dept of Agriculture to the Dept of Energy.

and the planning process in UK cant improve :rolleyes:?

or for that matter any of the other European countries with large industrial bases to construct items such as windmills

hell we dont even have a domestic metalworking industry, all of the materials to make one would have to be imported a long way, that's very "green"

and that's for commercial turbines, ive been shopping for a small 5KW one, and all of them are made and shipped from China, you simply can not compete with the labour costs and the economies of scale they have

Macha

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and the planning process in UK cant improve :rolleyes:?

Er..to use your own words..the planning process in Ireland can't improve :rolleyes:?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hell we dont even have a domestic metalworking industry, all of the materials to make one would have to be imported a long way, that's very "green"

These factors are taken into consideration and wind energy is still far greener than any fossil fuel energy.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and that's for commercial turbines, ive been shopping for a small 5KW one, and all of them are made and shipped from China, you simply can not compete with the labour costs and the economies of scale they have

I would be worried if the Irish government were trying to corner the manufacturing sector for renewables microgeneration to be honest.

syklops

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Intel India designs the new 6core Xeon, while Intel Ireland gets to do what?

They make chips used by the US military. If they were to move the plant in leixlip to china, the pentagon would tear up their contracts for fear of the design of the chip getting into China's hands

oppenheimer1

taconnol wrote: »

Er..to use your own words..the planning process in Ireland can't improve :rolleyes:?


These factors are taken into consideration and wind energy is still far greener than any fossil fuel energy.


I would be worried if the Irish government were trying to corner the manufacturing sector for renewables microgeneration to be honest.

The embedded energy in things like imported wind turbines doesn't make them very green though. For example it takes a typical solar panel in ireland 10-12 years to produce the same amount of energy that was required to manufacture it. Incidentally it has a design lifespan of 10 years. Green technology isn't very green yet.

Macha

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The embedded energy in things like imported wind turbines doesn't make them very green though. For example it takes a typical solar panel in ireland 10-12 years to produce the same amount of energy that was required to manufacture it. Incidentally it has a design lifespan of 10 years. Green technology isn't very green yet.

It is far, far greener than the alternatives.

Wind energy incurs approximately 4.64 - 10g CO2e/kwh

Coal is somewhere in the region of 1000g CO2e/kwh.

It's not about perfection, it's about making it a hell of a lot better.

Can you provide a source for your solar panel stat? Is it for large scale or microgen? Also, trying to compare solar panels and wind turbines in Ireland is like comparing apples and oranges. Ireland needs to focus on wave and wind and leave large-scale solar to the Mediterranean countries.

ei.sdraob

taconnol wrote: »

It is far, far greener than the alternatives.

Wind energy incurs approximately 4.64 - 10g CO2e/kwh

Coal is somewhere in the region of 1000g CO2e/kwh.

It's not about perfection, it's about making it a hell of a lot better.

Can you provide a source for your solar panel stat? Is it for large scale or microgen? Also, trying to compare solar panels and wind turbines in Ireland is like comparing apples and oranges. Ireland needs to focus on wave and wind and leave large-scale solar to the Mediterranean countries.

interesting how you ignore nuclear...

Macha

ei.sdraob wrote: »

interesting how you ignore nuclear...

I didn't realise I was obliged to discuss it. By your logic, I also ignored oil, gas, diesel and other renewables.