Is society being intentionally 'dumbed down'?

stevejazzx

Here's a question which I suspect will receive the usual foray of trite early responses before settling into an intelligent debate on the true value of art and culture in modern society....anyways...

I am wondering what is happening to the world in relation to education, culture and art? It seems to me that 500 years ago people where able to produce better art & culture despite their relative ignorance. I know that there are many great artists out there but it seems incredibly rare to come across someone who is truly revolutionary in their field? It's like the passion for great art has ceased. It appears to have been drastically sidetracked by the horrible mass culture we all now endure on a daily basis.

Forget about wanting great art for a minute, if people would just stop watching mainstream TV that would be a start. If people would just educate themselves to a reasonable level and understand the basic principles of existence that would be fantastic. This is not a 'people are so stupid' thread but rather a people are so 'dumbed and numbed' thread. When is it going to stop?

What really gets to me is people who say 'that's not for the likes of me to think about' and then go off and but a new toaster. This sh1t is serious now, I feel like I'm in a zombie movie sometimes as even the intelligent people I know rush home to watch 'big brother' or something similarly mind numbing.

All this f**kin greed and mistrust from person to person as well. There's no love or understanding. Most people just bitch about one another and blame it on the constructs of a dog eat dog society. This is all bullsh1t. In reality nearly everyone I know is afraid of thinking for themselves and making a personal stance based on the conclusions. Everyone has bought into the apparent safety of mass culture.
"Watch American Gladiators' people, don't leave your homes".
It's all designed to keep us in line as merry little consumers and we all know this yet do nothing. It's so so sad to think of the collective conscience that exists in this constant state of repression and suppression.

Each year I make a little pact with myself to try to achieve something outside of all this chaos. Something to make the me in me happy. Something which is as far away from the all the noise as possible. Next time you think you want something perhaps throw the little question of need in front of it? And to all those people who hate your lives change them; it is possible despite what you are told from day to day. Don't end up retired and regretful, do something now.

Finally Bertrand Russell once said:
"People would rather die than think, in fact they often do" - little did he know how true that would become.

Sorry for the rant, must be my time of the the year!
Steve

My name is URL

I stopped reading after the first sentence

imo if you don't like how AH works, take it elsewhere

I_am_Jebus

I is to dum to reed all that. Pleaze mayk it shorterer.

tanx

stevejazzx

My name is URL wrote: »

I stopped reading after the first sentence

imo if you don't like how AH works, take it elsewhere

I stopped reading after after the first few words...after the 'I stopped reading bit'. It wasn't easy I can tell you.

stovelid

Cloud skin, I you
I you, I do
No need for tl;dr, it's true
when I look at black text with you

/end

hobochris

stevejazzx wrote: »

I stopped reading after after the first few words...after the 'I stopped reading bit'. It wasn't easy I can tell you.

Given this is after hours, I'd just like to add "your ma"...

stevejazzx

stevejazzx wrote: »

Here's a question which I suspect will receive the usual foray of trite early responses before settling ...

My name is URL wrote: »

I stopped reading after the first sentence

imo if you don't like how AH works, take it elsewhere

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

I is to dum to reed all that. Pleaze mayk it shorterer.

tanx

hobochris wrote:

Given this is after hours, I'd just like to add "your ma"...

Hmmm..

Turd Ferguson

stevejazzx wrote: »

Here's a question which I suspect will receive the usual foray of trite early responses before settling into an intelligent debate on the true value of art and culture in modern society....anyways...

I am wondering what is happening to the world in relation to education, culture and art? It seems to me that 500 years ago people where able to produce better art & culture despite their relative ignorance. I know that there are many great artists out there but it seems incredibly rare to come across someone who is truly revolutionary in their field? It's like the passion for great art has ceased. It appears to have been drastically sidetracked by the horrible mass culture we all now endure on a daily basis.

Forget about wanting great art for a minute, if people would just stop watching mainstream TV that would be a start. If people would just educate themselves to a reasonable level and understand the basic principles of existence that would be fantastic. This is not a 'people are so stupid' thread but rather a people are so 'dumbed and numbed' thread. When is it going to stop?

What really gets to me is people who say 'that's not for the likes of me to think about' and then go off and but a new toaster. This sh1t is serious now, I feel like I'm in a zombie movie sometimes as even the intelligent people I know rush home to watch 'big brother' or something similarly mind numbing.

All this f**kin greed and mistrust from person to person as well. There's no love or understanding. Most people just bitch about one another and blame it on the constructs of a dog eat dog society. This is all bullsh1t. In reality nearly everyone I know is afraid of thinking for themselves and making a personal stance based on the conclusions. Everyone has bought into the apparent safety of mass culture.
"Watch American Gladiators' people, don't leave your homes".
It's all designed to keep us in line as merry little consumers and we all know this yet do nothing. It's so so sad to think of the collective conscience that exists in this constant state of repression and suppression.

Each year I make a little pact with myself to try to achieve something outside of all this chaos. Something to make the me in me happy. Something which is as far away from the all the noise as possible. Next time you think you want something perhaps throw the little question of need in front of it? And to all those people who hate your lives change them; it is possible despite what you are told from day to day. Don't end up retired and regretful, do something now.

Finally Bertrand Russell once said:
"People would rather die than think, in fact they often do" - little did he know how true that would become.

Sorry for the rant, must be my time of the the year!
Steve

Hahahahahhahahahahahaha

stevejazzx

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Hahahahahhahahahahahaha

ah ha...?

kaimera

they have art on computers now.

pretty sure the internet has some info on the basic principles of existence...'bing.com'

RealEstateKing

90 per cent of people are ignorant as pig****. Thats the way its always been.

However, things have gotten a little better in this regard. The vast majority of people can read now, whereas in Michalangelos time , for example, reading would have been confined to the elite only.

So you're creating a false dichotomy by comparing the absolute best of culture from 500 years ago with the general dross that entertains the proles today, the X-factors and the Big Brothers and what not.

It is a very common mistake to make to assume that there was some Golden Age in the past when everything was better, it's usually caused by only being aware of the good stuff from the past because the dross has been filtered away by time. The 1960s wasnt all The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix, there was also Englebert Humperdinck and the Doodletown Pipers, but most of us have forgotten about those now.

Pherekydes

Yes*.


Next blindingly obvious question, please.





*Don't fall into their trap. It's up to each and every one of you!

stevejazzx

RealEstateKing wrote: »

90 per cent of people are ignorant as pig****. Thats the way its always been.

However, things have gotten a little better in this regard. The vast majority of people can read now, whereas in Michalangelos time , for example, reading would have been confined to the elite only.

So you're creating a false dichotomy by comparing the absolute best of culture from 500 years ago with the general dross that entertains the proles today, the X-factors and the Big Brothers and what not.

It is a very common mistake to make to assume that there was some Golden Age in the past when everything was better, it's usually caused by only being aware of the good stuff from the past because the dross has been filtered away by time. The 1960s wasnt all The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix, there was also Englebert Humperdinck and the Doodletown Pipers, but most of us have forgotten about those now.

I see your point and somewhat agree, it is a bit unfair to compare, however it seems that there are so many trivial distractions these days that it can stifle even great artists? The point was that 500 years ago art was allowed to be art, now it's consumerised at every level and and all artists exist in a climate that is not conducive for thinking.
Anyway more importantly, the thread wasn't just about ignorance but rather peoples lack of enthusiasm or courage for wanting to improve themselves. I feel society is 'numbed'.

Pighead

RealEstateKing wrote: »

90 per cent of people are ignorant as pig****. Thats the way its always been.

However, things have gotten a little better in this regard. The vast majority of people can read now, whereas in Michalangelos time , for example, reading would have been confined to the elite only.

So you're creating a false dichotomy by comparing the absolute best of culture from 500 years ago with the general dross that entertains the proles today, the X-factors and the Big Brothers and what not.

It is a very common mistake to make to assume that there was some Golden Age in the past when everything was better, it's usually caused by only being aware of the good stuff from the past because the dross has been filtered away by time. The 1960s wasnt all The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix, there was also Englebert Humperdinck and the Doodletown Pipers, but most of us have forgotten about those now.

Spot on. The history books have only given us a greatest hits of 500 years ago. You've only heard about the great artists, scholars and composers and in your mind you have created a wonderland where everybody was brilliant at algebra and engaged in intelligent discussion.

Hogwash! There were plenty of people who were as thick as pigshit and whose idea of a good night out involved heading down to the field to play "Hit the animals on the head with a rock" or "Rape the comely maidens" Ignorance was rife back then. Way more so than it is now. Maybe you should start watching more television to educate yourself on life in bygone days!

bigeasyeah

Art is ****.

stevejazzx

Pighead wrote: »

Spot on. The history books have only given us a greatest hits of 500 years ago. You've only heard about the great artists, scholars and composers and in your mind you have created a wonderland where everybody was brilliant at algebra and engaged in intelligent discussion.

Hogwash! There were plenty of people who were as thick as pigshit and whose idea of a good night out involved heading down to the field to play "Hit the animals on the head with a rock" or "Rape the comely maidens" Ignorance was rife back then. Way more so than it is now. Maybe you should start watching more television to educate yourself on life in bygone days!

Do you really think that art today is produced for same reasons as art historically? Do you think that the passion is there? Do you think that the enlightenment is still strong. I don't and I think that there are masses of evidence to support it. The worst response to this thread is the 'everything is pretty much alright response' - because it's not. I'm sure you could even dig some of your own quotes to back me up on that?

Davao8000

No it isn't intentional but it is happening. I don't think there is a big conspiracy about trying to remove anything intelligent from culture in general. People just make money from the things you consider dumb. As H. L. Mencken said - Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the (American) public.

X-factor and everything of that ilk is just the modern bread and circuses.

As this is after hours can I add - your ma!

OK-Cancel-Apply

Perhaps all the greatest artistic strides have already been made. It's hard to do something original. As for society being dumbed down - I think the difference nowadays is technology. People can get their entertainment at the flick of a switch, and if they don't like it, they can flick another switch.

Once upon a time we all had to go to live shows where we interacted with each other more, or we could just entertain our friends at home. Who can say how we'll get our entertainment tomorrow... electrodes in the frontal lobe maybe! :pac:

Latchy

Metrocity abounds everywere under the name of ' star /celebrity ' .

stevejazzx

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Art is ****.

I agree.










****=good

Pighead

stevejazzx wrote: »

Do you really think that art today is produced for same reasons as art historically? Do you think that the passion is there? Do you think that the enlightenment is still strong. I don't and I think that there are masses of evidence to support it. The worst response to this thread is the 'everything is pretty much alright response' - because it's not. I'm sure you could even dig some of your own quotes to back me up on that?

Of course there's passion in art nowadays. You just have to know where to look. You can't just turn around and tar everything on television with the same brush. There are some magical pieces of art on television that have been inspired by the minds of genius' throughout the years. Same with music, theatre, sculpture etc etc.

You don't have to watch what the television execs are spoon feeding us. Dig a little deeper under the surface and you'll discover that todays creative minds are extremely capable of producing works of brilliance.

Rob_l

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Art is ****.

and in some cases **** is art!

General Zod

JEdward.

dr.bollocko

This accurately sums how I feel about this thread.
I weep for humans that weep for humanity.

Latchy

The bottom line is we have choice .The choice to read what newspaper we wish ,what music we listen to , what books to read ,what movies to go see ,what artist / event /pop/ rock /classical concert to go see .Despite the blandness out there nobody tells me what to listen to or what to watch , when to watch it .Thank god for sites like you tube were you will find something to keep everybody happy .

topper75

There is no 'intentional' steering going on. That reeks of paranoia.

There are art galleries open and there is Celebrity Farm Enders on the TV. People choose. They are not forced. We may both be disappointed that the choices of others are not ours, but life is like that and requires tolerance. You would only have grounds to rant really if there was a concerted effort stopping you from accessing what you perceive to be great culture. Do you feel that is the case?

Latchy

General Zod wrote: »

JEdward.

JEdward will achieve world fame for not being very talented but hey , maybe they are the next Graeme Norton / Pat kenny :pac:

stevejazzx

Pighead wrote: »

Of course there's passion in art nowadays. You just have to know where to look. You can't just turn around and tar everything on television with the same brush. There are some magical pieces of art on television that have been inspired by the minds of genius' throughout the years. Same with music, theatre, sculpture etc etc.

You don't have to watch what the television execs are spoon feeding us. Dig a little deeper under the surface and you'll discover that todays creative minds are extremely capable of producing works of brilliance.

I'm not tarring all TV with same brush.
I like TV, thought the Sopranos was one of the most inspired things I've ever seen. I'm tarring excess junk culture. I tarring people not thinking.
There may be creativity around but I don't see anything great happening on any kind of regular basis and promising artists are ending up too frequently below their potential.

ScumLord

The only reason the likes of Da Vinci stand out as great artists of their day is because they where great innovators of their day, they where full of new ideas and technology.

You won't find any great innovation in classic arts any more, we've seen painting go from life like to abstract and theirs nothing left to do in that field but minor variations on whats come before. It's the same for pretty much all of the arts like storytelling, sculpture and music.

If you want to find real innovation it's in the sciences these days. The stuff we're doing with technology it's just amassing.

stevejazzx

dr.bollocko wrote: »

This accurately sums how I feel about this thread.
I weep for humans that weep for humanity.

yeah can't agree with you there. the comic is just a dull attempt to sideline the issue. People afraid to think. I'm not kill-joy, life is great we should be thankful for it, but we're being head ****** by mass media (sorry the cheesy cliche but it is unfortunately true) and can do so much better, that's the point.

BraziliaNZ

do people really think the common man living in squalor 500 years ago was interested in renaissance art or baroque chamber orchestras?
Hell no. Smutty Limerick's and getting pissed on grog whenever they could was as good as it got for them I'd imagine.

But now we have X-Factor for the masses, we're no stupider now than we have ever been.

IvySlayer

Art is different nowadays.

Painting on a canvas, wow!!

Look at art nowadays, watch Top Gear and their amazing car reviews, the visual style. Look at photography. I could cite hundreds of examples.

Latchy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But now we have X-Factor for the masses, we're no stupider now than we have ever been.

Yeah and it's not the masses who choose to put X-factor or any other 'trashy' quick route to fame show on the tv .It's high powered executives and money men like Simon Cowell who call most of the shots .He's just bailed ITV out of a whole by pumping more of his money into it

peasant

As for commercialisation of art ...Michelangelo worked only on comission and many of the now famous artists died poor and unrecognised.

But I think you'd need to look at the whole issue a different way.

Up to 100 years ago (or so) the "common man" was ignorant due to the fact that education and information wasn't easily and certainly not freely available.

Spend a day browsing Wikipedia today and you can probably learn more in that one day than some medieval bogtrotter ever had a chance to learn in his whole life.

The issue is that most people choose not to educate themselves and rather use our information age for entertainment than enlightenment.

markesmith

My name is URL wrote: »

I stopped reading after the first sentence

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

I is to dum to reed all that. Pleaze mayk it shorterer.

hobochris wrote: »

Given this is after hours, I'd just like to add "your ma"...

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Hahahahahhahahahahahaha

:rolleyes:

Society isn't intentionally being dumbed down, it's just that the masses vote with the asses and watch the drivel that's spouted out the telly. X Factor, Gladiators, Premiership Soccer, all the soaps...there isn't an underlying plan by free market capitalists to pacify people, it's just that people have proven again and again that they like to be pacified by TV.

As Paul Weller says, "The public wants what the public gets". But the OPs points are right on the money, if unsuited to After Hours (sample thread title: "Dog set on fire and left to burn to death").

RealEstateKing wrote: »

90 per cent of people are ignorant as pig****. Thats the way its always been.

I think the golden age foreseen by leading thinkers during the Enlightenment never materialised. Your average person is an idiot that flails from one distraction to another on the way to dying.

Great post, OP. But wrong forum for debate.

Pygmalion

Less than 70 years ago a team of mathematicians and engineers got together to build a device that would perform a cryptological attack which, though I did read about it, I still fail to understand, on what was believed to be an undefeatable cypher used by the opposing army.

Thanks in a great part to their effort, I'm now in college studying how to program machines that can do hundreds of millions of calculations per second, and informing tons of people (some of whom on the other side of the world, or at least atlantic in my case) of my most stupid and boring actions, I could be doing it with full colour video and crystal clear audio if I wanted.

So boo hoo, there aren't any nice sculptures anymore.

IvySlayer

markesmith wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Society isn't intentionally being dumbed down, it's just that the masses vote with the asses and watch the drivel that's spouted out the telly. X Factor, Gladiators, Premiership Soccer, all the soaps...there isn't an underlying plan by free market capitalists to pacify people, it's just that people have proven again and again that they like to be pacified by TV.

As Paul Weller says, "The public wants what the public gets". But the OPs points are right on the money, if unsuited to After Hours (sample thread title: "Dog set on fire and left to burn to death").



I think the golden age foreseen by leading thinkers during the Enlightenment never materialised. Your average person is an idiot that flails from one distraction to another on the way to dying.

Great post, OP. But wrong forum for debate.

Just because I have different taste to you, doesn't mean I'm stupid.

Biggins

Is society being intentionally 'dumbed down'?

Yes and no in particular cases - that and too much complacency, we're doomed to become sheep to be dumbly herded around more so.

deisedude

markesmith wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Society isn't intentionally being dumbed down, it's just that the masses vote with the asses and watch the drivel that's spouted out the telly. X Factor, Gladiators, Premiership Soccer, all the soaps...there isn't an underlying plan by free market capitalists to pacify people, it's just that people have proven again and again that they like to be pacified by TV.

As Paul Weller says, "The public wants what the public gets". But the OPs points are right on the money, if unsuited to After Hours (sample thread title: "Dog set on fire and left to burn to death").



I think the golden age foreseen by leading thinkers during the Enlightenment never materialised. Your average person is an idiot that flails from one distraction to another on the way to dying.

Great post, OP. But wrong forum for debate.

I agree with some of the things you have said but i fail to see how watching the premiership can be considered pacifying the masses. Does watching sport make you less intelligent or something?

markesmith

IvySlayer wrote: »

Just because I have different taste to you, doesn't mean I'm stupid.

Of course not. :pac:

Latchy

deisedude wrote: »

I agree with some of the things you have said but i fail to see how watching the premiership can be considered pacifying the masses. Does watching sport make you less intelligent or something?

Now this might be crux of OP's thread .Like just as many middle class people ' amoung the masses ' love , play and watch sport ,including the premiership .

markesmith

deisedude wrote: »

I agree with some of the things you have said but i fail to see how watching the premiership can be considered pacifying the masses. Does watching sport make you less intelligent or something?

Sorry for double-posting. I watch the Premiership too, I'm a huge Spurs fan (but that's my problem). Football is obviously a mindless entertainment, albeit an acceptable one to us males. Doesn't make us less intelligent, but it's not exactly learning a new language, it's not exactly reading the classics, or whatever.

conorhal

"90 per cent of people are ignorant as pig****. That's the way its always been."


True, but never have the unwashed masses been so aggressively anti-intellectual in western Europe or learning possessed of so little value or admiration, nor have the brainless, Joe Duffy calling, chattering, troglodytes counted for so much. It used to be that great men shaped nations, and not every gob****e that had the dexterity to text skynews.com
It used to be that the lowest common denominator knew it was the lowest common denominator and shut it's mouth for any purpose other than breathing.
The barbarians are at the gates I tell ya! And great empires are rarely destroyed, they merely rot from within. BTW, does anybody know if Katie Price has really been knocked up by that cage fighter bloke? Inquiring minds need to know!

chem

stevejazzx wrote: »

I see your point and somewhat agree, it is a bit unfair to compare, however it seems that there are so many trivial distractions these days that it can stifle even great artists? The point was that 500 years ago art was allowed to be art, now it's consumerised at every level and and all artists exist in a climate that is not conducive for thinking.
Anyway more importantly, the thread wasn't just about ignorance but rather peoples lack of enthusiasm or courage for wanting to improve themselves. I feel society is 'numbed'.

Its fear. Look at what happens to people, who want to explore things. If you walk over a field to study flowers, you might be done for tresspass. If you hang a "prank" painting in a museum, your questioned by the police. We have all read stories of people doing stuff outside the box, and have been arrested, questioned or jailed.

Remember the hobby chemist in the UK? He ordered some chemicals from a company and his home was raided, street cleared for two days and the bomb squad called in! The man who discovered pure oxygen, had no science degree etc. He liked to experiment at home and discovered oxygen.

If you want to do anything different here, its made hard to do as red tape is everywhere :mad:

stevejazzx

topper75 wrote: »

There is no 'intentional' steering going on. That reeks of paranoia.

There are art galleries open and there is Celebrity Farm Enders on the TV. People choose. They are not forced. We may both be disappointed that the choices of others are not ours, but life is like that and requires tolerance. You would only have grounds to rant really if there was a concerted effort stopping you from accessing what you perceive to be great culture. Do you feel that is the case?

That is so incorrect it's painful.
Do you really think the structure of society as it exists today is encouraging mass take up of serious art and culture? The concentrated efforts of business is the consumerisation of people. A kind of slow programming through advertising from an early age. It is possible of course to entertain other aspects of life, it's not like the programming is all consuming but it certainly doesn't help in the creation of a better culture or art. It stifles and numbs people and makes them afraid to step outside the restrictions of everyday life - and again I say that the thread has more to with this than 'high art' as it were.

segaBOY

stevejazzx wrote: »

if people would just stop watching mainstream TV that would be a start.

Says the guy with a Fawlty Towers sig, that was mainstream TV back in the 70s?

I understand where you are coming from OP-there's nothing worse than those who are more interested in the going ons within the pages of Hello magazine over anything that is happening in the real world.

I think a lot of it is simply down to escapism, people don't like certain aspects about their current life so the go away and forget about it for an hour by watching X Factor or Big Brother, go off and watch some football match or even run away from life to post on boards.ie (hey look at that)

It becomes a bit unbarable when it begins to consume their lives and all they can talk about is what happened on TV last night etc. but it takes all sorts to make this life interesting and I think you'll find that 300 years ago the masses were fall less educated than what they are today(and thank God for that no longer being the case otherwise I'd be screwed), there may have been greater atrists back then in your view but art changes with generations and often takes years to become appreciated.

Last Angry Man

stevejazzx wrote: »

That is so incorrect it's painful.
Do you really think the structure of society as it exists today is encouraging mass take up of serious art and culture? The concentrated efforts of business is the consumerisation of people. A kind of slow programming through advertising from an early age. It is possible of course to entertain other aspects of life, it's not like the programming is all consuming but it certainly doesn't help in the creation of a better culture or art. It stifles and numbs people and makes them afraid to step outside the restrictions of everyday life - and again I say that the thread has more to with this than 'high art' as it were.

The structure of society doesn't exist to encourage, or DO anything. It just exists like you, me and everyone else in the world. In the vastness of time our lifetimes are just specs of dust and we ourselves are of zero importance and will all be forgotten within a couple of generations. Who cares if you are into X Factor or Cubism or cramming peanuts up your nose?

In fact how nice to have nothing more to worry about the creation of "better" culture. If you were alive in some of the eras you would neither have the time, the freedom or the expertise to explore and endulge in the many aspects of culture that we have access to today.

It sounds to me like you need a hobby. Or maybe some new mates that don't annoy you so much. And perhaps you could enighten us as to how you yourself are contributing to better culture? Come on, share...

994

stevejazzx wrote: »

I see your point and somewhat agree, it is a bit unfair to compare, however it seems that there are so many trivial distractions these days that it can stifle even great artists? The point was that 500 years ago art was allowed to be art, now it's consumerised at every level and and all artists exist in a climate that is not conducive for thinking.

Art wasn't allowed to be art, the industry was controlled by rich patrons and only open to a tiny elite.

Prof.Badass

Telescoping. When you look back at the past it always seems better. For example take music, you have a very small number of musical geniuses spaced over hundreds of years but we somehow remember them all as "classical music" and think "music must have been amazing back then". There was an awful lot of ****e back then, it just so happens that time has forgotten them.

samson09

Last Angry Man wrote: »

In the vastness of time our lifetimes are just specs of dust and we ourselves are of zero importance and will all be forgotten within a couple of generations.

Speak for yourself buddy. You are more important than you will ever realise, and so is everyone else, from the bum on the street to the queen of england. Such limited and inaccurate understanding of the self is probably the end result of this dumbing down the OP is talking about. We no longer realise who we are and how incredible we ALL are. People don't really look at themselves in any great depth anymore, its much easier to switch off and be distracted by the ongoing stream of distractions provided to us by movies, television, etc.

"Look here, not there".

stevejazzx

994 wrote: »

Art wasn't allowed to be art, the industry was controlled by rich patrons and only open to a tiny elite.

Not so. Although there certainly existed a system whereby the upper classes were free to commission great artists, the floor was more open to artists to create art without motive. Take a look around the Vatican or Louvre at all the unknown geniuses on display or even at all the great poets and writers that have existed without impinging upon general consciousness but whose works have been cataloged, recognized and remembered nonetheless. I don't think such a system exists anymore.