Science JC Coursework B

peewee18988

Hey

Just got the Coursework B titles for the Junior Cert students.

Trying to decide which ones to choose......the biology one looks like the one to leave out (involves plants).

Any feedback/suggestions appreciated.

p.s hod do you make 0.15M HCl?

paddyc

get 1M HCl its the standard


take out 150mls of it and make up to 1000mls with water. shake it loads and volia


paddy

rainbowtrout

peewee18988 wrote: »

Hey

Just got the Coursework B titles for the Junior Cert students.

Trying to decide which ones to choose......the biology one looks like the one to leave out (involves plants).

Any feedback/suggestions appreciated.

p.s hod do you make 0.15M HCl?

Well what are the titles?

I don't have third years this year so I haven't seen them

Fad

That's a weirdly specific molarity, never heard of it being used before.

rainbowtrout

Fad wrote: »

That's a weirdly specific molarity, never heard of it being used before.

It might just have been chosen because it's not a concentration that teachers would have readily made up in the lab, so they will have to make it up, but also it's weak enough that huge quantities of HCl don't need to be used.

But I do agree, it tends to be 0.1, 0.2,0.5 molarities that are used.

dympy

I think i'd be leaving out the biology one too! those qualitative ones tend to be trick with the write up. Definately taking the chemisty on the antacids and the physics one with the ramp.

Dont have the titles to hand but from memory:
Bio:
Qualatitively investigate two factors that affect the uptake of water in plants.

Chem:
Investigate the strength of antacids using 0.15M soln of HCl.

Phy:
Investigate the factor affecting the distance it takes a toy car to stop after coming off a ramp.

Will give exact phrasing sun night when i get back

hope this helps

Eccles

Hmm these may be the hardest trio ever ...Chemistry MAYBE not so bad ...the rest tricky esp Bio...

dympy

I know, had to have a second look over em to make sure i had read them right the first time lol

peewee18988

Yeah think the bottled HCl is generally much stronger than 1M, have worked out the dilutions anyway.

I reckon leaving the biology out is a no-brainer, we have decided to do chem and phys anyway.

I find that doing the expa is the easy part. Getting the kids to do the reports is the hard part. I generally end up writing up all the reports myself.

Fad

peewee18988 wrote: »

Yeah think the bottled HCl is generally much stronger than 1M, have worked out the dilutions anyway.

Bottled acid is generally 18M (AFAIK)

A little bit more than 1!

RealJohn

In fairness, while it says 0.15M in the title, as long as you use a molarity that can effectively test the antacid, I don't think it makes a big difference.

Chemistry and physics seem to be the easier options this year and that's what my class will be doing anyway.

ciano6

peewee18988 wrote: »

I find that doing the expa is the easy part. Getting the kids to do the reports is the hard part. I generally end up writing up all the reports myself.

this is the reason why own-teacher assessed state examinations would never work in little Ireland

RealJohn

ciano6 wrote: »

this is the reason why own-teacher assessed state examinations would never work in little Ireland

I'm inclined to agree. I don't write the reports myself but I basically tell the students what to put in them. It isn't right but it's just what's expected. Weaker students wouldn't have a clue without help.

peewee18988

Well from correcting the Jc exams in the summer, I had whole class sets that had the same wording. Unless the results are clearly INCORRECTLY copied, the examiners will not cause a fuss.

I have some very weak kids that simply cannot write up their own reports, it's a painful process getting them all done.

Do different antacids differ in their basicity? Will 0.15M definately neutralise all tabs? What brand are ya buying?

Miss Lockhart

dympy wrote: »

I think i'd be leaving out the biology one too! those qualitative ones tend to be trick with the write up. Definately taking the chemisty on the antacids and the physics one with the ramp.

Dont have the titles to hand but from memory:
Bio:
Qualatitively investigate two factors that affect the uptake of water in plants.

Chem:
Investigate the strength of antacids using 0.15M soln of HCl.

Phy:
Investigate the factor affecting the distance it takes a toy car to stop after coming off a ramp.

Will give exact phrasing sun night when i get back

hope this helps

Can anyone confirm that these are the investigations for this year? Thanks

dympy

Directly quoted from dept letter sent to schools:


BIOLOGY
Qualitatively investigate two factors that affect the uptake of water by a plant.


CHEMISTRY
Compare by way of investigation the abilities of different indigestion remedies to neutralise excess stomach acid.
[A pre-prepared stock solution of 0.15M HCl may be used as "stomach acid".]


PHYSICS
Investigate two factors that affect the distance taken for a toy car to stop after rolling down a ramp.

Miss Lockhart

dympy wrote: »

Directly quoted from dept letter sent to schools:


BIOLOGY
Qualitatively investigate two factors that affect the uptake of water by a plant.


CHEMISTRY
Compare by way of investigation the abilities of different indigestion remedies to neutralise excess stomach acid.
[A pre-prepared stock solution of 0.15M HCl may be used as "stomach acid".]


PHYSICS
Investigate two factors that affect the distance taken for a toy car to stop after rolling down a ramp.

Wow! Fast reply!

Thanks, we haven't received the letter yet.

dympy

we got ours the middle of nov!

peewee18988

Hey

How's everyone getting on with the investigations? I tried the physics one last week but our ramp was crap....getting the woodwork dept to make us a proper one for the new year.

Going for the chemistry exp today. I have bought Rennie, bisodol and gaviscon. Also bought some baking soda to keep the kids busy.

What indicator(s) are you using? I have a pH meter but think I'll hand out some pH paper and some liquid indicator. I'm plannain on dissolving the tabs in a few mls of water and then letting them add until neutralisation. I have a feeling it's gonna carry on over a few classes.

Anyway, let me know how you're gettin on.

MathsManiac

peewee18988 wrote: »

I find that doing the expa is the easy part. Getting the kids to do the reports is the hard part. I generally end up writing up all the reports myself.

Professional integrity bites the dust (again).

peewee18988

Professional integrity is a luxury that a lot of teachers don't have. I have a class of 26, some have no English, some have special needs, nearly all of them are disruptive and completely uninterested in writing up Junior Cert reports.

ciano6

peewee18988 wrote: »

Professional integrity is a luxury that a lot of teachers don't have. I have a class of 26, some have no English, some have special needs, nearly all of them are disruptive and completely uninterested in writing up Junior Cert reports.

as a science teacher involved in examinations and curriculum design, i think that professional integrity has everything to do with it. I think that it is absolutely outrageous and possibly criminal that a teacher should be writing the reports for the students. If the student has no English or Special Needs, their result shoud still reflect this.
If "nearly all of them are disruptive and completely uninterested", you may need to look at how YOU are approaching the exams. If someone else was willing to my work for me, I too would be uninterested.

MathsManiac

peewee18988 wrote: »

Professional integrity is a luxury that a lot of teachers don't have. I have a class of 26, some have no English, some have special needs, nearly all of them are disruptive and completely uninterested in writing up Junior Cert reports.

When you say "a lot of teachers", I'm curious to know how many you mean. It's been my experience that the great majority of teachers do indeed have integrity.

What fraction of teachers do you think don't have integrity?

dids6457

ciano6 wrote: »

as a science teacher involved in examinations and curriculum design, i think that professional integrity has everything to do with it. I think that it is absolutely outrageous and possibly criminal that a teacher should be writing the reports for the students. If the student has no English or Special Needs, their result shoud still reflect this.
If "nearly all of them are disruptive and completely uninterested", you may need to look at how YOU are approaching the exams. If someone else was willing to my work for me, I too would be uninterested.

I have to say as a teacher I take great offence at the mention of us looking at how we approach in regard to uninterested pupils! The pupils have a great interest in doing the practical work but when it comes to writing up a full booklet they lose that interest and it is our job to try to get them to write it up as well as possible as quickly as possible!It is professional integrity and interest that drives teachers to do as much as possible to ensure these pupils go into the exam with as much of the 25% as possible! Id challenge anyone to take on the coursework B, plan 2 investigations, prepare all material, carry out investigations with pupils, get them to write them up while still preparing them for exams in a few months time...while still bearing in mind that they are 15 years old at most!

For those of us who are carrying out the coursework B.....for the chemistry...did anyone use gaviscon?? We used Alka Seltzer (which worked fine with universal indicator) and Andrews (which hasnt worked yet for us)!! Is it possible to dissolve the chewable tablets because they are all chewable in the shops! The liquids are too thick in consistency!

peewee18988

Thanks dids6457

That't the point that i was trying to articulate. I need that 25% for this group of students or they WILL fail ordinary level science in June. Not much use trying to explain to my principal that I let students fail a state exam to preserve my professional integrity. indeed, they love the experiment part and all got excellent results. However, they are not graded on their experimental abilities and are academically incapable of writing reports that justify their results.

ANYWAY, I set up this thread to discuss the ways in which teachers are approaching coursework B in their labs. To answer dids6457, I used Bisodol, Gaviscon, Rennie and baking powder. The results are really odd.

How are you beginning the experiment? I started by dissolving the tabs in a small amount of acid. Some of the tabs only require 6-7ml of 0.15M acid for neutralisation

ciano6

I'm sorry now peewee but you did say "I generally end up writing up all the reports myself." That is scandalous.

To dids6457 : This is in no way a personal attack on peewee, but if you had read the full thread you would have seen the above quote.

dids6457

ciano6 wrote: »

I'm sorry now peewee but you did say "I generally end up writing up all the reports myself." That is scandalous.

To dids6457 : This is in no way a personal attack on peewee, but if you had read the full thread you would have seen the above quote.

I have to say I did read the full thread and my reading of it was that he meant writing it up himself in the general sense not the physical sense...meaning he will write it on the board for the pupils to take down!
Scandalous as it may seem sum pupils need as much help as they can get to even pass and I have no problem standing up and admitting that I offer that help! My class brainstorm the investigations, come up with the plan together and write up each heading as a class which i put on the board for them to take down, it eliminates anyone being left out and doing well.

In response to the actual investigations;
We are titrating the acid against the different bases, so our result will be how much acid it takes to neutralise the base.
The alka seltzer didnt work using the recommended dose on the pack...it turned out it only needed 2 mls and they didnt really see a colour change, we got this result from using insicator paper, so to make it easier for the pupils to see we concentrated the solution using more tablets in less water (they came up with this idea themselves) and we got a value of 11.5 mls acid needed.
Andrews salts hasn't worked so we are thinking of breaking up the chewable tabs with a mortar and pestle and dissolving them the same as the dissolvable ones! Its trial and error from here I have to say.

xxgawjusbosexx

Umm the way we did it was


We had the burret wit acid and we had a beaker with water and methal orange as our indicator

we put in the remedie and kept puttin in acid till there was a change in the colour . It turned pink

we recorded how much acid we put in

the more the acid it took to change colour the better the remedie

Arran1

Hey! Just wondering if anyone has started the physics section of coursework b, hoping to get it started this week! Chemistry is just about out of the way.

CookieMonster.x

We did the Chemistry one and started the Physics one. We had to do the neutralisation one wrong (I think?). Instead of doing it like the neutralisation experiment, we had to add 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 and max adult dosage of each and tested tHe pH each time and that was it. The pH probe didn't really work after the first time (Sodium bicarbonate went up to 6.6 but after the max adult dosage was added for the rest it went below the pH of the acid ) Think we did it wrong anyway.
Doing the Physics one now. Using table mats as ramps and the factors I'm using are friction and slope. Going grand I think.

spurious

Re the report writing.
I would teach the same type of child that peewee speaks of and they do project work for me.

I take them individually and get them to tell me what they did in their own words, which I transcribe, grammar errors, inaccuracies, confusion and all. They then write this out in their writing.

I would have no problem defending that to any inspector.
My own subjects are not Science, but they are not English either. If the child knows what they did, can give me an account of it, I have no problem being an interpreter. It is not an English test.

For very very weak kids, I would tape them speaking about their project. I don't know is that an option in Science, but I can't see why a case could not be made for it. It's supposed to be an assessment of their ability to do the experiments and to know what they were for, not their writing, spelling, handwriting etc..

However, I wouldn't write the reports for them.

TheDriver

Indeed, I was always of the view when I taught Science in the past that you can tell them the bones of what to write but they actually have to write it. You don't tell them the verbatim words.
I have a big problem with the project in that everyone writes the same, at that age a science project is difficult to comprehend and also they don't remember the experiements very well.