Deer carcus tagging system

arrowloopboy

Is it time for a carcus tagging system ?
Their seems to be a marked increase in poaching this year,maybe due to the economy,and the increased price given for venison by certain ,or a certain dealer.
I do a lot of salmon fishing,and if your keeping a fish you have to insert a tag to their gill as soon as you kill him,this tag has numbers on it that lead straight back to me.
If the same was applied to deer carcuses ,it might help alot,i.e caught with an untaggted carcus ,gun taken and fined.
Game dealer caught with untagged carcuses ,shut down and fined.
They could make the game dealers record every carcus ,sellers name and tag no.
I think if this could be implamented,it would at least half the amount of poaching.
It has nearly done away with all salmon poaching.
I herd of a guy lately finding 17 grallochs in a lane on his wood,not a happy camper.

Vegeta

Sounds like a good idea to me but would the project ever get the funding and proper management needed in this recession.

A poacher is anyone who shoots deer where they shouldn't. The system would not stop people from shooting deer on land they had no permission to be on. Dragging them out and putting a tag on them once in a safe place. Or even if brazen they could tag it there and then.

I do not condone poaching at all but it's an extremely hard thing to curtail and workarounds are usually quick to be discovered.

CJhaughey

I dobt it would work, Even the salmon tagging one has been shown to be flawed.
There was a load of salmon seized in a fishmarket in the UK that had angling tags on!
Too much trouble for no benefit to the state.
There has to be a payback and do you want to pay for each tag for each deer you shoot? How much are you prepared to pay €50-100 or more?
TBH it would be a nightmare to implement and run and NPWS are not exactly over run with staff as it is.
How does it work for the guy who shoots his own land, does he pay for a tag as well? I am not sure that would go down well with him:D

ivanthehunter

It might have an effect on industrial scale poaching operation but its not going to stop the one a year poachers.

Anyway like every other bit of legislation it should have been in years ago.

We had a government that were too easily influenced by the media and instead of making hard decisions and reforms to protect the economy in times of plenty they were obsessed with guns and attacked the easy targets.

Looking back now it all seems so childish with respect to our current dilemma.

in my opinion it felt like i was being told what i could and couldnt do by either a parent or an older brother.

Regards Ivan.

4gun

could you just limit an ordinary hunter to one or two carcasses at a time, anything more and you would need a commercial licence to "harvest a hatural resource" charge for such licence and tag all animals shot or something similar to the beef traceability system, but for all that you would need more full time rangers, similar to the fisheries board

emcor

If a poacher is caught taking salmon their gear can be lifted on the spot by WRFB. This would soften the cough of lads poaching deer if their guns were impounded pending trial and have an immediate affect on deer numbers.

Dvs

Picture this if you will......



The state does a miserable job of applying and enforcing existing legislation,
Relating to an activity that is taken part in within the law, by law-abiding people, however there are some criminals that do not respect or abide by the existing legislation, the state is unable or unwilling to provide the resources to police it and deal with them.

The people demand that something be done!

Bring in a new system or procedure, issue new guidelines, a code of best practice and a training regime that everyone must qualify in before they can legitimately take part in this activity.

The people demand that something be done!

Politicians rise to the challenge!

The state drafts new legislation to deal with this "problem", politicians issue press releases and make statements in the Dail, that they are responding to an outcry of public opinion by bringing in these strict controls to deal with a criminal or potential criminal element scourge on society, that are illegally or have the potential to illegally take part in this activity.

New legislation gets passed,
First of all everyone feels vindicated.

Then reality kicks in, the new guidelines require everyone to be in compliance with them prior to taking part in this activity, the code of best practice training regime costs one hundred euros to take and requires a 95% score to pass, to keep up to date with new regulations that may be brought in to deal with this problem, in line with other qualifications everyone must re-qualify every three years to continue taking part.

While the states efforts to apply the new laws and regulations are exactly the same as prior to the implementation.

All law abiding people that wish to continue taking part in this activity, take the new training course and after passing carry on taking part in this activity within the law, some decide that they don't want to take the course for a number of reasons, they don't like tests, are afraid they might not pass first time and look silly, nothing to do with being criminals or not abiding by the law, so they give up.

The criminals on the other hand do not respect or abide by the new legislation anymore than they did the old, they do not take the new training course, the state is still unable or unwilling to provide the resources to police it and deal with them.

The only people unaffected are the criminals!
The only people that are effected and suffer are the law abiding!


I never cease to be amazed at the way people want to regulate and impose new measures to deal with something that already has many laws against it already.

If you want to demand something, demand that the state provide resources to enforce the existing legislation.

Dvs.

foxshooter243

This is similar thinking to Ahern and his cronies..we cant or wont do anything about the number of gangsters armed with illegal weapons, and it is weapons in this case!..so lets target the easy option , the ordinary law abiding sporting shooter and cripple him instead..at least then we will be seen to be doing something about " guns"

Its the same with poaching..there are lads out there shooting deer with no permits, permissions, using wrong calibres and lamping them at night..so lets target the whole shooting community and introduce more bollixology to make the bona fide persons life more regulated than it is..
I mean to shoot deer , I had to go around farmers and use contacts to gain written permissions, apply for deer cert , buy a suitable calibre rifle and have it inspected, have secure accomodation to hold same-have that checked by gardai in person in my home.
So theres a deer poaching problem in Ireland and I have to be loaded again with more regs-what does that do to sort the problem? answer-Nothing!
Answer-co-operation between gardai and rangers with a will to deliver the goods-make a few examples and the resultant shockwave will do the rest,
also stiffer checks need to be made on restaurants and hotels as this venison needs an outlet..its not that difficult if the will is there.
But greater regulation on the guy thats towing the line whilst out for a morning stalk is not going to make one iota of difference when a van load of lamped deer have been snatched in the middle of the night and are hanging up in some lads shed awaiting lifting by some local retaurant owner or hotelier who has one invoice for venison and can pass it off as traceable meat..cos thats where it goes:(-enough said-time to lower the blood pressure:)

Edited to add-just seen that DVS puts the point across in a more eloquent manner!

4gun

yeah, it can only happen here were laws are introduced to penalise law abiding citizens and nothing done to tackle criminals
it's almost as if FF encorage the criminal fraternity in one form or another

CJhaughey

emcor wrote: »

If a poacher is caught taking salmon their gear can be lifted on the spot by WRFB. This would soften the cough of lads poaching deer if their guns were impounded pending trial and have an immediate affect on deer numbers.

And who is responsible for impounding the guns and storing them?
I doubt the Rangers are able to take possession of Firearms that they are not licensed for.
Big difference between seizing fishing gear and a firearm.

foxshooter243

CJhaughey wrote: »

And who is responsible for impounding the guns and storing them?
I doubt the Rangers are able to take possession of Firearms that they are not licensed for.
Big difference between seizing fishing gear and a firearm.

Rangers are fully empowered to take your firearm and sieze your vehicle until gardai arrive, they can also search outhouses and sheds without a warrant, but cant search the family home.

Grizzly 45

And you would be avery BRAVE ranger to challange unarmed a bunch of lads with rifles and ski masks.Or even braver putting you and yours at risk up to and post any court actions.
Anyways,the tagging system ,even in the US it is abused annually where it has been in place for decades.Even landowners who have deer are obliged to buy them ,and you are limited to three or four deer per season.Common practise is simply for hunters to go with the tag,and if they shoot a deer and are stopped by a ranger,simply say they were just going to put it on right now.Despite that they might have shot already six or more already this season.US Fish& Game depts are concentrating more nowadays on poaching rings of the commerical scale,theft of protected species,etc etc.IOW high yield in finance and publicity.Checking deer tags are still part of it,but even for F&G it is a known and abused system and keeps the normal "city hunter" in check,but not the local poacher or landowner.

Only place it has been really effective has been on exotic animals.Like Dall or Big Horn sheep,Gators or trophy moose or Elk.There the tags are on the animal almost before it is shot,as in some cases ,a F&G warden will accompany the hunter to make sure no immature animal is shot.Seeing that I personally shot the last big horn sheep here in Ireland;):D:D:D.
It would be a pointless exercise,as we are very short of exotics,and [2] the money and ability to enforce this project.

CJhaughey

Given what has just happened to the Pistol shooting fraternity, I think DVS's post has a lot of truth in it.
Be careful what you wish for and all that kind of thing....