Rare photo of Directors Tram prior to it being vandalised.

Run_to_da_hills

I came across this photo of the Directors Tram intact prior to it being vandalized in 1984.

This unique tram was stored for years in an area known as "Porters field" off the Barnhill Road near Dalkey close to where I grew up. I believe it is currently stored at the transport museum in Howth. Dose anyone have any update on its faith?

Ste.phen

I have a pic of myself standing on this (or a very similar tram) in St Anne's Park 2 or 3 years ago, the transport musem have it restored, and brought it to St Anne's during the Rose Festival that year.
It might not be the same tram (i'm particularly not sure about the lower deck furnishings (curtains, etc)) but it's of the same vintage.
Will have a look later for it

Run_to_da_hills

Ste.phen wrote: »

I have a pic of myself standing on this (or a very similar tram) in St Anne's Park 2 or 3 years ago, the transport musem have it restored, and brought it to St Anne's during the Rose Festival that year.
It might not be the same tram (I'm particularly not sure about the lower deck furnishings (curtains, etc)) but it's of the same vintage.
Will have a look later for it

The above tram was unique, the only one of its kind in the world. The windows were cut glass from Waterford crystal, solid wooden interior, furnishings, cast iron trimmings around the upper gallery. It was used exclusively for executive travel and staff inspections around the various depots in Dublin in in its heyday.

For years the top of this tram could be seen clearly from the main road over a hedge which use to attract attention. Unfortunately it attracted the wrong attention and was burnt to the ground. It should never have been sold off to a private individual who left it deteriorate and exposed in a pig yard to end up in such condition.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The above tram was unique, the only one of its kind in the world. The windows were cut glass from Waterford crystal, solid wooden interior, furnishings, cast iron trimmings around the upper gallery. It was used exclusively for executive travel and staff inspections around the various depots in Dublin in in its heyday.

WTF, why would they ever have needed something so ridiculously over the top. Just goes to show there was plenty of mis-spend around before CIE too:pac:

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

WTF, why would they ever have needed something so ridiculously over the top. Just goes to show there was plenty of mis-spend around before CIE too:pac:

I think the top brass of to day would be too lazy to leave their warm offices.

AlekSmart

Dose anyone have any update on its faith?

Rtdh,I`d be fairly certain that it`s Protestant,given the prevailing business creed of it`s era ....

BTW...Might I recommend to those interested in the era and topic a very interesting book by Bill McCamley entitled "Dublin`s Tramworkers 1872-1945".
It`s published by the Labour History Workshop and well worth a read.

CookieMonster`s question is probably still unaswered....

WTF, why would they ever have needed something so ridiculously over the top.

Although it would have been challenging to send the Directors Car to pick up Sharon Commins from Chad,it proves the essential good sense of having stuff like the Gubbermint Jit to hand for such high-profile business...so don`t be a begrudger !!!

Run_to_da_hills

AlekSmart wrote: »

Rtdh,I`d be fairly certain that it`s Protestant,given the prevailing business creed of it`s era ....

BTW...Might I recommend to those interested in the era and topic a very interesting book by Bill McCamley entitled "Dublin`s Tramworkers 1872-1945".
It`s published by the Labour History Workshop and well worth a read.

True, the guy that that owned it prior to it being handed over to the museum was a protestant.

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

CookieMonster`s question is probably still unaswered....

Although it would have been challenging to send the Directors Car to pick up Sharon Commins from Chad,it proves the essential good sense of having stuff like the Gubbermint Jit to hand for such high-profile business...so don`t be a begrudger !!!

Thats like having a special Luas though, pointless as it's range is so limited. I don't like the fact we have a gov jet and don't think we need one but I can understand why they do. If only it wasn't abused so much

Judgement Day

The tram is far from restored and its remains are stored in the transport museum in Howth. The individual, now deceased, who owned the tram failed to look after it while in his possession and used it as an 'office' in the middle of his piggery in Dalkey. It was trashed before being partially burnt and latterly handed over for preservation. The former owner, Horace Porter, is believed to have obtained the tram through his FG connections!
It now awaits its fate in the completely underfunded museum in Howth. :mad:

As to why it was so lavish, well it was owned by a private company and in those days private companies took pride in their concerns and liked to travel over their lines in style - surely a good advertisement - unlike today's CIE/IE directors who would be driven to any re-opening ceremony etc in a company car.

murphaph

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it's range is so limited

The Dublin tram network was amongst the most extensive in the world. You could travel just about anywhere on it. They even had integrated ticketing lol! How times have changed (for the worse).

Run_to_da_hills

murphaph wrote: »

The Dublin tram network was amongst the most extensive in the world. You could travel just about anywhere on it. They even had integrated ticketing lol! How times have changed (for the worse).

According to this it was intervals of 4 minutes on the 7 and 8 minutes on the eight route between trams. And today they are pushing for every 15 minutes on the Dart.

Cookie_Monster

murphaph wrote: »

The Dublin tram network was amongst the most extensive in the world. You could travel just about anywhere on it. They even had integrated ticketing lol! How times have changed (for the worse).

Limited to Dublin though isin't it, gov jet or even state cars have slightly more range...

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

According to this it was intervals of 4 minutes on the 7 and 8 minutes on the eight route between trams. And today they are pushing for every 15 minutes on the Dart.

How many more people fit on a single dart compared to the trams though... 300+ I imagine. There for not needed ass frequently

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Limited to Dublin though isin't it, gov jet or even state cars have slightly more range...



How many more people fit on a single dart compared to the trams though... 300+ I imagine. There for not needed ass frequently

At least you could enjoy a smoke on the trams.

Judgement Day

A couple of poor quality newspaper pics of the interior of the Director's Tram below - sorry I can't master posting them directly!

The first shows the tram as it would have been originally and the second when it was in the 'care' of Horace Porter - clearly a man who took heritage preservation seriously. LoL! I believe that far from donating the burnt-out remains to the Howth museum he was compensated and also claimed from the Dun Laoghaire local authorities.

Director's Tram 010.JPG

Director's Tram 006.JPG

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

A couple of poor quality newspaper pics of the interior of the Director's Tram below - sorry I can't master posting them directly!

Here you go.




Heres more of it after it was destroyed in Dalkey.

Cool Mo D

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Limited to Dublin though isin't it, gov jet or even state cars have slightly more range...



How many more people fit on a single dart compared to the trams though... 300+ I imagine. There for not needed ass frequently

1200+ actually on an 8-car DART. The Luas even fits more than 300 per tram. And I would argue that a 4 car DART every 8 minutes would be more than twice as attractive as an 8 car every 15 minutes.

Cookie_Monster

Cool Mo D wrote: »

And I would argue that a 4 car DART every 8 minutes would be more than twice as attractive as an 8 car every 15 minutes.

true

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

true

Or the much missed and economical two Dart car sets every 4 minutes.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Or the much missed and economical two Dart car sets every 4 minutes.

Too many drivers required then, too many to even run the sets of 4 either probably.

Run_to_da_hills

Back on topic again, I'm surprised no one has jumped at the sponsorship of its restoration. A prestigious job like this would be a boost of morale for the likes of Waterford Crystal and other Irish companies that are struggling at the moment.

corktina

back off topic rapidly...Protestant isnt a Faith...Christianity is....:D

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Back on topic again, I'm surprised no one has jumped at the sponsorship of its restoration. A prestigious job like this would be a boost of morale for the likes of Waterford Crystal and other Irish companies that are struggling at the moment.

Honestly though what company has the money to throw at something like that. considering it will not be seen by many even if it is restored as we have no proper transport museum.

There is no way W.C. would pay for it anyway

Judgement Day

There was no money for such projects in the boom times and Bord Failte made sure whatever money was available was diverted into bull**** interpretative centres such as The Corlea Trackway nr.Longford, The Queenstown Centre,the Lismore Experience, the Clonakilty Model Railway Village.......... The Irish heritage/tourism product is severely flawed and doesn't hold a candle to the UK mainland or even the Isle of Man. Anyway if Waterford Wedgwood can't reimburse their shareholders (including me) they needn't bother wasting their resources on restoring a tram to have put back into another hay shed to await the next arson attack! :mad:

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Honestly though what company has the money to throw at something like that. considering it will not be seen by many even if it is restored as we have no proper transport museum.

I agree, which is a shame in itself, something like this tram should be desplayed seperately.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There is no way W.C. would pay for it anyway

I am not suggesting that WC pay for it, I know they are smashed, however they should have some input into the project if it ever gets the go ahead. The Saracen Foundry of Glasgow rebuilt the gable to the Olimpia Theater and Dun Laoghaire drinking fountain (Vandalised in the 80ies) both of which were originally manufactured by the same company at the turn of the 20th century so it would be appropriate to have WC take on the the glass work of this.

I am sure only a very few in this country even knows of its existence and I believe that It is purposely kept hush because it is such a sore point to our railway heritage to let it decay so far. When one looks at what London Transport, The Isle of Man or even Blackpool has to show, its an outright disgrace.

Judgement Day wrote: »

There was no money for such projects in the boom times and Bord Failed made sure whatever money was available was diverted into bull**** interpretative centers such as The Corlea Trackway nr.Longford, The Queenstown Centre,the Lismore Experience, the Clonakilty Model Railway Village.......... The Irish heritage/tourism product is severely flawed and does hold a candle to the UK mainland or even the Isle of Man. Anyway if Waterford Wedgwood can't reimburse their shareholders (including me) they needn't bother wasting their resources on restoring a tram to have put back into another hay shed to await the next arson attack! :mad:

There was plenty of money back during the boom but as you say it was well squandered on white elephant projects of which many we are still paying dearly for. The only possible hope of restoration in this current climate would be if FAS took it on the project as they have with Number 253 The advantage with this tram is that the undercarriage, upper deck Roth iron work and overhead boom are in very good shape despite what it went through.

kaiser reedporter

hello this was my great uncle horace porters tram , he was a very well respected man so i take it he was probabally to busy doing things away from his tram to attend to cleaning and maintanence,,,, and i can say that i met the man and his brother who sabotaged the same tram and himself apologised so i never mentioned his name to my family , i am sorry to say that it really was just two teenagers who were bored then took the oppertunity to tresspass and wreck it for "fun" ,,,, that is honestly what happend to the directors tram

Del.Monte

And he took such great care of the tram before it was trashed. LOL.

Banjoxed

kaiser reedporter wrote: »

hello this was my great uncle horace porters tram , he was a very well respected man so i take it he was probabally to busy doing things away from his tram to attend to cleaning and maintanence,,,, and i can say that i met the man and his brother who sabotaged the same tram and himself apologised so i never mentioned his name to my family , i am sorry to say that it really was just two teenagers who were bored then took the oppertunity to tresspass and wreck it for "fun" ,,,, that is honestly what happend to the directors tram

Justice would be served if the two idiots who wrecked it paid for and repaired it.

Qualitymark

AlekSmart wrote: »

Rtdh,I`d be fairly certain that it`s Protestant,given the prevailing business creed of its era ....

Surely not, though; William Martin Murphy, who owned the tram network, was very Catholic. I'd say this tram had a fair oul' sprinkle of holy water in its day.

corktina

Qualitymark wrote: »

Surely not, though; William Martin Murphy, who owned the tram network, was very Catholic. I'd say this tram had a fair oul' sprinkle of holy water in its day.

5 years ago Qualitymark....five years ago

Qualitymark

What was five years ago?

Michael D Not Higgins

Qualitymark wrote: »

What was five years ago?

The post you replied to.

Qualitymark

Oh, really? Just saw recent postings in the thread and started reading back. I don't tend to check the dates, do you?

LXFlyer

Having been caught out by people resurrecting zombie threads in the past, it is always worth just glancing at the dates.

Michael D Not Higgins

Qualitymark wrote: »

Oh, really? Just saw recent postings in the thread and started reading back. I don't tend to check the dates, do you?

I've often been fooled by someone bumping an old thread. Usually there'll be a clue if you're not paying attention to the dates, like old posters who aren't active anymore or anachronous posts.

Qualitymark

Anachronous! Get you!

spurious

Sometimes the zombies are worth resurrecting.

I had never heard of this tram. I'm intrigued if it's out in the Howth Transport Museum (is it?). Would it still have its windows?

whisky_galore

Qualitymark wrote: »

Surely not, though; William Martin Murphy, who owned the tram network, was very Catholic. I'd say this tram had a fair oul' sprinkle of holy water in its day.

Honestly. Who cares? It was an inanimate object with no religious beliefs.

Qualitymark

whisky_galore wrote: »

Honestly. Who cares? It was an inanimate object with no religious beliefs.

Now, how do you know that

Seriously, I was just addressing the common view that all rich people pre-independence were Protestant.

What has happened to the tram, by the way? Was it ever refurbished? Pity if not.