Protest over public sector pay

baaaa

Just throwing it out there,anybody fancy protesting about the excessive rates of public sector pay and their refusal to take the neccessary cuts?
The unemployed should be marching,it's they who will suffer the cuts if the public sector won't climb down(assuming the country is still running).

TestTransmission

To the batmobile

hussey

I like cake

humberklog

P.O.P.S.?

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

Just throwing it out there,anybody fancy protesting about the excessive rates of public sector pay and their refusal to take the neccessary cuts?
The unemployed should be marching,it's they who will suffer the cuts if the public sector won't climb down(assuming the country is still running).

No.

Pygmalion

Public Sector vs. Dole Scroungers.

Who does AH despise more?

baaaa

there may have been a better time and place to post this

TestTransmission

Pygmalion wrote: »

Public Sector vs. Dole Scroungers.

Who does AH despise more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksmb6iwPZYo

baaaa

I'm not so sure dole scroungers is appropriate these days.Most of these poor unfortunates are newly unemployed and it's not like there's any jobs.
I'm glad I don't say things like that,shows I'm smart.

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

I'm not so sure dole scroungers is appropriate these days.Most of these poor unfortunates are newly unemployed and it's not like there's any jobs.
I'm glad I don't say things like that,shows I'm smart.

Does that count as calling me stupid, if so I call personal attack.
But you're right, blaming everything on the public sector is the smart thing to do, sure they're all millionaires with holiday homes, butlers and a fine selection of BMWs.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

But you're right, blaming everything on the public sector is the smart thing to do, sure they're all millionaires with holiday homes, butlers and a fine selection of BMWs.

This is about the level of response I expected,a prime example of public sector thinking,wrong,just wrong.
Nobody said ye were millonaires,that's such a silly argument.
I'll make it simple;
The public sector did NOT cause this problem but they will prevent it from being solved if they're let.

GLaDOS

My dad works in the public sector and is sick of being told he hasnt taken a pay cut, he has, called the pension levy

Yellowsubmarine

hussey wrote: »

I like cake

I LOVE cake!

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

The public sector did NOT cause this problem

:eek:

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

This is about the level of response I expected,a prime example of public sector thinking,wrong,just wrong.
Nobody said ye were millonaires,that's such a silly argument.

I'm unemployed, but am related to more than one person in the public sector, none of them have it that good, and all of them have seen a reduction in their take-home pay at the end of the week in one way or another.

baaaa

ScienceNerd wrote: »

My dad works in the public sector and is sick of being told he hasnt taken a pay cut, he has, called the pension levy

Not trying to be smart but does he offer any other suggestions as to where to get the 20+ billion from?
I ask this cause I've yet to meet someone of this disposition who has solutions besides "not me,sure I only earn x"

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

Not trying to be smart but does he offer any other suggestions as to where to get the 20+ billion from?
I ask this cause I've yet to meet someone of this disposition who has solutions besides "not me,sure I only earn x"

How about getting some of it back of the Fucking banks?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Not trying to be smart but does he offer any other suggestions as to where to get the 20+ billion from?

I think the point was that despite all the "BAWW PUBLIC SECTOR ARE REFUSING TO TAKE PAY CUTS" going on, almost all of them have gotten at least one considerable decrease in their take-home pay, just that everyone forgot all about them a week later and went back to insisting they take another one.
Not that he knows the perfect way to solve the problem while making everyone happy.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

I'm unemployed, but am related to more than one person in the public sector, none of them have it that good, and all of them have seen a reduction in their take-home pay at the end of the week in one way or another.

I completely acknowledge that some may not have it that good and that they have taken cuts already.
These facts however are completely 100% irrelevant.
What is relevant is that the country is rapidly going bankrupt.

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

I completely acknowledge that some may not have it that good and that they have taken cuts already.
These facts however are completely 100% irrelevant.
What is relevant is that the country is rapidly going bankrupt.

Your original post

baaaa wrote: »

Just throwing it out there,anybody fancy protesting about the excessive rates of public sector pay and their refusal to take the neccessary cuts?
The unemployed should be marching,it's they who will suffer the cuts if the public sector won't climb down(assuming the country is still running).

So yes, the fact that they don't have it that good and have already taken cuts IS relevant to this thread.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

I think the point was that despite all the "BAWW PUBLIC SECTOR ARE REFUSING TO TAKE PAY CUTS" going on, almost all of them have gotten at least one considerable decrease in their take-home pay, just that everyone forgot all about them a week later and went back to insisting they take another one.
Not that he knows the perfect way to solve the problem while making everyone happy.

Yeah I hear this theory "but we took a pay cut already" all the time from the public sector.It would be funny if it wasn't so serious,I wonder who told them that one pay cut is all they must suffer?
It's soooo dumb,where is the logic?Why just one pay cut?

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

Yeah I hear this theory "but we took a pay cut already" all the time from the public sector.It would be funny if it wasn't so serious,I wonder who told them that one pay cut is all they must suffer?
It's soooo dumb,where is the logic?Why just one pay cut?

So at what point will you be happy should they not be paid at all?

wandatowell

baaaa wrote: »

Why just one pay cut?

cos one should have been enough,

hoody

The Government are looking for around €4 billion in cuts, of which they want €1.3 billion to come from public sector pay cuts & reform. So even if the proposed cuts come into the public sector, they're still €2.7 billion short. So fix that.

baaaa

Doc wrote: »

So at what point will you be happy should they not be paid at all?

Well firstly the banks are bust so you're previous suggestion of getting the money back off them is not good.
And I'm just after realising that this question is the same so I'm not gonna bother.

baaaa

wandatowell wrote: »

cos one should have been enough,

Why?

CCCP^

Why is the Public Sector only protesting when it looks like their pay will be cut?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Yeah I hear this theory "but we took a pay cut already" all the time from the public sector.It would be funny if it wasn't so serious,I wonder who told them that one pay cut is all they must suffer?
It's soooo dumb,where is the logic?Why just one pay cut?

Perhaps you're right, perhaps they do need to take another, but doesn't excuse everyone bitching to them about how they don't care about the country and refused to take a pay cut after they've already taken one.

If you'd just taken a pay cut a couple of months back and seriously cut down on your spending, and then got told by someone that your pay is excessive and that you were "refusing" to take a pay cut you wouldn't like it at all, nor would most of the people making these claims about the public sector, and it's worse when the people bitching about the public sector are fairly well off (which often seems to be the case).
Thing is, I imagine, due to how wide-reaching the public sector is, almost everyone has a friend or relative working in it, who probably isn't rich or even any better off than most.
But when they talk about the big evil public sector it never seems to be Joe down the street they talk about, but the tens of thousands of unnamed guys on paid sick leave playing poker in the bahamas.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

The Government are looking for around €4 billion in cuts, of which they want €1.3 billion to come from public sector pay cuts & reform. So even if the proposed cuts come into the public sector, they're still €2.7 billion short. So fix that.

No

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

Perhaps you're right, perhaps they do need to take another, but doesn't excuse everyone bitching to them about how they don't care about the country and refused to take a pay cut after they've already taken one.

If you'd just taken a pay cut a couple of months back and seriously cut down on your spending, and then got told by someone that your pay is excessive and that you were "refusing" to take a pay cut you wouldn't like it at all, nor would most of the people making these claims about the public sector.
Thing is, I imagine, due to how wide-reaching the public sector is, almost everyone has a friend or relative working in it, who probably isn't rich or even any better off than most.
But when they talk about the big evil public sector it never seems to be Joe down the street they talk about, but the tens of thousands of unnamed guys on paid sick leave playing poker in the bahamas.

What?whatever,it is joe down the street.

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

No

Thought not.

baaaa

Just to clear this up,the public sector fought tooth and nail over the first cuts.They have refused to be part of the solution from the start.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Thought not.

Indeed,why exactly should I?You do know that I'm advocating cuts?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Just to clear this up,the public sector fought tooth and nail over the first cuts.They have refused to be part of the solution from the start.

Are you saying if someone came in and told you to take a pay cut because they banks suck, that you'd be happy about it because you're "part of the solution"?
Yes they fought, then they failed, and then (the most noble of all) they pretty much shut the **** up about it until the second round started to be discussed.

Maybe if they were louder and more annoying about it people might actually have realised that they did take a hit I guess.

hoody

Explain why a public sector worker on, say, €25000 a year should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same money.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

Are you saying if someone came in and told you to take a pay cut because they banks suck, that you'd be happy about it because you're "part of the solution"?
Yes they fought, then they failed, and then (the most noble of all) they pretty much shut the **** up about it until the second round started to be discussed.

Maybe if they were louder and more annoying about it people might actually have realised that they did take a hit I guess.

Really big sigh.
The country takes in 40 apples but eats 60.
This is why the public sector has to take a cut,the banks is sooo like 2 years ago.

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

Well firstly the banks are bust so you're previous suggestion of getting the money back off them is not good.
And I'm just after realising that this question is the same so I'm not gonna bother.

What is wrong with my question? At what level do you think they should accept their pay being cut. A 10% cut 15%, 20%,30% ? Since you think they get payed too much what do you think?

As an aside I do not work in the public sector.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Explain why a public sector worker on, say, €25000 a year should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same money.

1.Because the vast majority are overpaid relative to european counterparts
2.Because the vast majority have security of tenure and pensions

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Really big sigh.
The country takes in 40 apples but eats 60.
This is why the public sector has to take a cut,the banks is sooo like 2 years ago.

I didn't say we didn't need money. But from your posts here you seem to think that the PS have it good, get "excessive" pay rates (your words in OP) and have refused to take a pay cut.
I'm saying that this isn't true, and that it's not just as simple as "Take money from them, they can afford it", when a lot of them are struggling to get by after the last pay cut they took.
More importantly, I'm saying that it's stupid to expect them to actually be happy or accepting of a pay cut, which you seem to think they should be.

Avoided the question in my post btw

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

I didn't mention whether or not it was needed, that's a whole different discussion.

No.It's not,it's this discussion and it's not just "needed",there is no choice,the country will collapse if the cuts aren't made.

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

No.It's not,it's this discussion and it's not just "needed",there is no choice,the country will collapse if the cuts aren't made.

Post edited (the first sentence of it, that is, only part you concerned yourself with) to reflect this then.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

But from your posts here you seem to think that the PS have it good, get "excessive" pay rates (your words in OP) and have refused to take a pay cut.
I'm saying that this isn't true,

Sigh again,this is true.The public sector is overpaid relative to their european counterparts and yes they refused to take the first cuts also.The talks broke down and it had to be forced upon them as I recall.
Stop posting wrong things.

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

1.Because the vast majority are overpaid relative to european counterparts
2.Because the vast majority have security of tenure and pensions

So a public sector worker on €25000 is overpaid and a private sector worker on the same isn't?

Security of tenure would only apply to permanent public sector workers, who would have been hired before the current embargo - when anyone could apply to work in the sector.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

So a public sector worker on €25000 is overpaid and a private sector worker on the same isn't?

No.No.No.An Irish public sector worker is overpaid relative to his/european counterparts.
An Irish public sector worker earns 5 apples a week ....

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Security of tenure would only apply to permanent public sector workers, who would have been hired before the current embargo - when anyone could apply to work in the sector.

Yes it would,your point?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Sigh again,this is true.The public sector is overpaid relative to their european counterparts and yes they refused to take the first cuts also.The talks broke down and it had to be forced upon them as I recall.
Stop posting wrong things.

The Irish private sector gets paid more than the rest of Europe too, strange how this is never brought up.
We're first in income in the EU after taxes (as in, take home pay, the type that matters), but only 9th in gross pay (as of just a year or 2 ago).

Surely this begs the question of why people aren't suggesting a huge tax increase for everyone, and why the public sector has to take such a huge share of it?
Both sectors are, as you put it, "overpaid relative to their european counterparts".

TomCo

I've worked in the public sector more than the private sector.
The pay isnt exactly amazing.

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

No.No.No.An Irish public sector worker is overpaid relative to his/european counterparts.
An Irish public sector worker earns 5 apples a week ....

That doesn't explain why a public sector worker on €25000 or any amount should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same amount. And surely, paying any worker in fruit ought to be a last resort

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

The Irish private sector gets paid more than the rest of Europe too, strange how this is never brought up.
We're first in income in the EU after taxes (as in, take home pay, the type that matters), but only 9th in gross pay (as of just a year or 2 ago).

Surely this begs the question of why people aren't suggesting a huge tax increase for everyone, and why the public sector has to take such a huge share of it?
Both sectors are, as you put it, "overpaid relative to their european counterparts".

God love you,are you really giving me figures about the private sector from 2 years ago ,ie the peak.
Do you see any problem with this?

Also there is no question begging,very basic economics says that increasing the tax burden on the general population will only hasten the decrease in economic activity.
This is very basic stuff.I love the way people that are trying to blank cuts are completely oblivious to it.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

And surely, paying any worker in fruit ought to be a last resort

heh heh missed that

baaaa

TomCo wrote: »

I've worked in the public sector more than the private sector.
The pay isnt exactly amazing.

Tom,not to put too fine a point on it but I couldn't give a sh**e about how you or anybody feels about the rate pay,the country simply doesn't have it anymore.
What part of that is so hard to understand?