[ADVICE] Complete new PC setup - all the trimmings.

Brando_ie

Okay. After a prolonged lurk, I am getting around to asking you guys for some advice on a complete new set-up to replace my January 2004 zombie. I have followed numerous threads, which sort of filled my requirements so perhaps some advice will be to point me to those threads where consensus was reached and I can tick one of the items of the list. I’ll bullet point my requirements and expand on anything as the thread (hopefully) develops.

o BUDGET: total €2,000
o BUILD: Self build (never done one in full but have replaced PSU’s, RAM, GPU’s, Optical / Hard drives and done Windows upgrades and re-formats. No experience of cooling / heat sinks and physically fear motherboard jumpers…. So all set) Will seek advice when all set to build.
o MONITORS (hardest to nail down and decent chunk of budget I suspect) : 2 No min 21” HMDI HD monitors. 1 of the screens will need to be a TV (about 50% of the time) and an expanded desktop the remainder. The TV screen will run a 360, PS3 and a multi-room sky (HD?) connection. Both must have a 1920x1080 resolution for desktop. Similar appearance (perhaps 2 HDTV’s would be best? Or should I be looking at a TV card and two HMDI screens – no experience here) Wall mounted. Reasonable on board speakers. Decent refresh rate.
o ACCESSORIES: Wireless laser mouse / keyboard set-up. I am a leftie but use a MX-700 so have learned to avoid the side keys. Desktop speakers for PC (3 or 4 speakers max). Internal WIFI, external hard drive (min 500mb) to help with transfer
o OS: Windows 7 64bit (Currently XP pro so similar flavour)
o PC: Whatever the remainder of the budget can get me. Open to a SSD primary, Good graphics card, Decent RAM, Quiet (running most of the day), DVD-RW, Physxs (or pointless?) min 1TB HD
o USES: FPS’s, AutoCAD 2 & 3D, Photo / Video editing, Sketchup / 3d Studio, dosing
o OVERCLOCKING: None likely (at least until it starts showing its age)
o STOCK: Must be ready to go. Wife threatening to go to PC-World and ask what 2 grand gets…. I think she is deadly serious :eek:. Will start ordering as early as tomorrow.

At a guess, I think the monitors will take €500 of the budget so €1,500 or so for the PC, mouse, keyboard, speakers, OS, external HD, internal WIFI. This thing is likely to have to last me another 4 years so stuff it in there.

Cheers boardies.

massy086

TV http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2409024/art/lg/m237wd-pz-lcd-display-tft.html

MONITOR http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2409024/art/lg/m237wd-pz-lcd-display-tft.html

I HAVE THE MONITOR COULD,NT BE HAPPY,R

Deano12345

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=461645 - Coolermaster HAF 922 = €92

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=492649 - Corsair 650 Watt PSU = €115

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=452346 - Samsung DVD-RW Drive = €20

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343055 - Samsung F1 (1TB x2) = €68 x 2

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487794 - Corsair X32 SSD = €121

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=428330 - Gigabyte UD3R = €163

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=391447 - Intel i7 920 = €240

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=449938 - 6GB 2000MHZ OCZ Blade = €145

http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?view_product=1&id=26269&sid=14&cid=122&scid=315 - Sapphire 5850 = €240

Should suit you perfectly

Edit : My monitor experience aint the best,some of the other guys should be able to help more

batman2000

Deano should the RAM be 1.5V. i7 920. The OCZ you have linked in 1.65V. Also the DDR3 speed apparently is max at 1066Mhz.... (I could be incorrect). Although THIS ram is 1.65V and says it for i7.?? It also has a CL7 timing

Farcear

Intel's spec says that 1.5V is standard, but up to 1.65V is fine. Just don't exceed 1.65 volts and you won't have any trouble.

I'm running 1.6v at the moment.

leninbenjamin

In terms of a monitor, if it's just a monitor you're looking for I'd recommend a Dell: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-031-DE&tool=3

For a TV the Samsung Syncmaster's aren't bad value. Very versatile, but their colour and sharpness wouldn't be as good as the Dell.

Wall mounted make things a bit more difficult though... I was looking for a reasonable wall mountable TV/Monitor recently enough and I didn't find any decent ones under the 400-500 bracket.

As for Deano's spec, tis grand. I'd get a slightly better mobo though personally speaking, i7s run very hot and the cheap Gigabytes/ASUS are grand but skimp on cooling. Some possibilities are the UD5 or P6T Deluxe. On the other hand a case like the HAF will push enough air through to keep them happy.

But dump the F1 and get the F3 instead. Fast more reliable and cheaper too.

As for a quiet PC, it might be better off to avoid the HAF though. They are a very open case and while they are quiet for an enthusiasts rig, they still aren't ideal for the living room. This Antec P183 might be a better option, or the more expensive Coolermaster Cosmos.

A heatsink is also needed. I recommend a Noctua. They can be run ultra quiet while still offering a healthy overclock if you ever want to go down that route. There are cheaper alternatives though, such as the Xigmatech, but they wont be as quiet.

leninbenjamin

batman2000 wrote: »

Deano should the RAM be 1.5V. i7 920. The OCZ you have linked in 1.65V. Also the DDR3 speed apparently is max at 1066Mhz.... (I could be incorrect). Although THIS ram is 1.65V and says it for i7. It also has a CL7 timing

i7 is 1.65v. Socket1366

i5 is 1.5v. Socker1156 (which also applies to some i7s, but in this case it's 1.65)

Farcear

i5 can take up to 1.65v. I'll see if I can get a link...

Leman_Russ

Farcear wrote: »

i5 can take up to 1.65v. I'll see if I can get a link...

It can, but why would you want to go 1.65 when you can get perfectly good 1.5?

Less volts is better volts!

batman2000

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i7 is 1.65v. Socket1366

i5 is 1.5v. Socker1156 (which also applies to some i7s, but in this case it's 1.65)

I'm just referring to the Intel website for the 1.5V reference. Also true, the less volts the better also the CL timings are better CL7 v CL9

leninbenjamin

batman2000 wrote: »

I'm just referring to the Intel website for the 1.5V reference. Also true, the less volts the better also the CL timings are better CL7 v CL9

Yes that would generally be the case, but unfortunately most LGA1366 motherboards weren't designed with 1.5v in mind. Some will boot, some wont. Check the manufacturer's QVL if you're thinking of putting 1.5 in there.

Brando_ie

massy086 wrote: »

TV http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2409024/art/lg/m237wd-pz-lcd-display-tft.html

MONITOR http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2409024/art/lg/m237wd-pz-lcd-display-tft.html

I HAVE THE MONITOR COULD,NT BE HAPPY,R

That LG TV looks just the ticket. I'll write off wall mounting if it puts me into the upper bracket. I think both of those links are to the same page. Do you have a link for the monitor you referred to (I assume it is a LG also?)

youcancallmeal

I would definitely recommend the Antec P182/3 for less noise. Not too gaudy either for a living room set up.

massy086

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2701048/art/lg/w2361v-pf-23-tft-widescre.html

Brando_ie

First off, thanks for the input so far and based on the comments I have settled on the following so far.

1 No LG W2361V-PF 23" TFT Widescreen (2ms)

1 No LG M237WD-PZ - LCD display - TFT - 23" - widescreen 5 ms LCD TV

Cheers massy!! - Running Total - €511 DELIVERED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=461645 - Coolermaster HAF 922 = €92 - Setup is in Dining area away from living room so noise should be a huge problem - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=492649 - Corsair 650 Watt PSU = €115 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=391447 - Intel i7 920 = €240 - STOCKED

1 No Noctua NH-U12P SE2 CPU Cooler = €63 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487794 - Corsair X32 SSD = €121 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB SATA2 = €67 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/catalog...d=122&scid=315 - Sapphire 5850 = €240 - HAVE TO CHECK IF STOCKED

1 No Sony DVD±RW burner DRU-875S = €30 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

Thanks Deano & leninbenjamin
Total €795 Ex Delivery
Running Total €1479

Questions about above selections
1- Will PSU fit selected case?
2- Cooler looks freaking scary. Is it a difficult job to mate with chip and do I need some sort of thermal paste (if so what kind?)
3- I traded out stuff to maximise the stocked items. The remainder are slated for 12-11-09. Is Komplett usually on the money in restocking or is it likely to get perpetually pushed on?
4- Will I need any cable management and come to think of it, will all the cables I need be supplied with the various components.
5- Will I need any tools over and above the trusty philips head set

Okay, Stuff still in the mix but I am confused on are below.

I'm not sure if the discussion between posts 4 to 11 were questioning the motherboard or the RAM?. Also leninbenjamin suggested a few alternatives. So of the Gigabyte UD3R, Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 and ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, X58 which should I go for? and do any of those options clear up the RAM questions in the thread?

Running Total €1860 (assuming dearest motherboard & spec'd RAM)

MISSING STUFF

OS - Between 7 home premium or pro (is it me or is Win7 Pro 64bit at €125 cheaper then the inferior Win7 Home Premium at €150... am I missing something)
I assume I can't avail of the Win7 Home premium 64bit OEM version?

Speakers - Logitech Z320 2.0 Speaker System = €40

Internal WIFI - have an old eircom netopia 3347nwg router so need a compatible internal card, any ideas? = Ca €30

Wireless Keyboard / Mouse - Leftie, any ideas?? = €???

External HD - WD Passport™ Essential 320GB Black = €67. pocket sized and USB powered

Possibly thermal paste goo, self build tools and cables / cable management plus a bit of delivery costs to throw into the mix.

CURRENT ESTIMATE TOTAL €2,200 excluding mouse / keyboard (+ 100 on sundries)

Okay, its running a bit over my budget but I have sweet talked the wife and have coaxed the budget to stretch.

Any advice on the questions or stuff still to select would be greatly appreciated and thanks for the input so far. Going to order the monitors tomorrow to get the ball rolling.

in other news... my longest boards post ever

leninbenjamin

Brando_ie wrote: »

Questions about above selections
1- Will PSU fit selected case?

Yes.

Brando_ie wrote: »

2- Cooler looks freaking scary. Is it a difficult job to mate with chip and do I need some sort of thermal paste (if so what kind?)

Pretty easy to assemble the mounting bracket, however the fan clips are very annoying to attach. It is a fiddly enough procedure but still very achievable for a first time builder.

Brando_ie wrote: »

3- I traded out stuff to maximise the stocked items. The remainder are slated for 12-11-09. Is Komplett usually on the money in restocking or is it likely to get perpetually pushed on?

Hit or miss tbh, although i haven't much experience in this regard.

Brando_ie wrote: »

4- Will I need any cable management and come to think of it, will all the cables I need be supplied with the various components.

Sometimes you'll get cable ties with various components like the PSU, case. However, probably best to buy your own wee bag of them anyway. I recommend getting some self adhesive cable clips though, Maplin have them.

Brando_ie wrote: »

5- Will I need any tools over and above the trusty philips head set

No.

Brando_ie wrote: »

I'm not sure if the discussion between posts 4 to 11 were questioning the motherboard or the RAM?. Also leninbenjamin suggested a few alternatives. So of the Gigabyte UD3R, Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 and ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, X58 which should I go for? and do any of those options clear up the RAM questions in the thread?

I'd say the UD3R is a fine if the budget is getting tight. I don't know much about them though.

As for RAM, as long as it is 1.65v or below and the motherboard supports the speed then it should be OK.

Brando_ie wrote: »

OS - Between 7 home premium or pro (is it me or is Win7 Pro 64bit at €125 cheaper then the inferior Win7 Home Premium at €150... am I missing something)
I assume I can't avail of the Win7 Home premium 64bit OEM version?

You can as you are a system builder. If you buy it along with the rest of the hardware it's perfectly legal.

Brando_ie wrote: »

Internal WIFI - have an old eircom netopia 3347nwg router so need a compatible internal card, any ideas? = Ca €30

What you need is a wireless PCI card. I have one of these. Cheap and cheerful.

Brando_ie wrote: »

Possibly thermal paste goo, self build tools and cables / cable management plus a bit of delivery costs to throw into the mix.

Thermal paste comes with the Noctua.

Brando_ie

Now it stands as:

1 No LG W2361V-PF 23" TFT Widescreen (2ms)

1 No LG M237WD-PZ - LCD display - TFT - 23" - widescreen 5 ms LCD TV - BOTH €511 DELIVERED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=461645 - Coolermaster HAF 922 = €92 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=428330 - Gigabyte UD3R = €163 - DELIVERY DUE 11-11-09

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=449938 - 6GB 2000MHZ OCZ Blade = €145 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=492649 - Corsair 650 Watt PSU = €115 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=391447 - Intel i7 920 = €240 - STOCKED

1 No Noctua NH-U12P SE2 CPU Cooler = €63 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487794 - Corsair X32 SSD = €121 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB SATA2 = €67 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?view_product=1&id=26269&sid=14&cid=122&scid=315 - Sapphire 5850 = €240 - HAVE TO CHECK IF STOCKED

1 No Sony DVD±RW burner DRU-875S = €30 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No Win7 Home premium 64bit OEM version? = €95 - STOCKED

1 No Logitech Z320 2.0 Speaker System = €40 - STOCKED

1 No WD Passport™ Essential 320GB Black = €67 - STOCKED

1 No TP-LINK TL-WN951N Wireless-N PCI = €24 - STOCKED

1 No Akasa Cable Management Kit = €11 - STOCKED

Running Total €2024 + Some Komplett & Peats delivery costs

Last up - Leftie Keyboard / Mouse. Did a bit of looking around and the MX-700 (current keyboard / mouse combo) and strangely DELL lokks like a decent place to get something along the lines of
Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 3200 Laser - Keyboard / Mouse combo = €87

EDIT: Peats have informed me that the Sapphire 5850 is out of stock and due to shortages they cannot give a restocking date!!.... looks like I'll have to seek an alternative GPU or supplier??

Brando_ie

Cheers leninbenjamin

From your reply -

I'd say the UD3R is a fine if the budget is getting tight. I don't know much about them though.

As for RAM, as long as it is 1.65v or below and the motherboard supports the speed then it should be OK.

I had a snoop around the Komplett 'additional information' tab and saw the following in relation to the Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R

4 memory ( 1.5 V ) - DIMM 240-pin
Does that simply mean the motherboard does not support the required voltage?

With the chosen RAM running at 1.65 V does that mean it is underutilised (alternative 1.5V option required) or worse could put the motherboard in jeopardy? (although the memory selector on Komplett shows loads of 1.65V RAM for both the EX58-UD3R options). Feeling a tad nervous about this.

Also With limited stock of the (Ati Radeon) / Sapphire 5850 on the go, should I be looking at an alternative rather than holding off my ordering till the GPU turns up? I'm not keen of the idea of a swathe of components burning a hole in my eye sockets whilst awaiting a delayed GPU

Venom

Regarding the GFX card can you use your old one till the 5850 come in stock?

The 5850's prices have gone up in both in the states and in far to many European online stores due to the lack of chips coming out of the factory so the uber bargain it was is looking to be not so uber now.

Farcear

Actually, running at 1.5V the RAM is underutilised -- adding more voltage up to 1.65V will get it to run faster. If you want high-performance RAM then you are definately going to be running it higher than the default 1.5v. The RAM should have an XMP setting to automatically adjust the voltge and timing setting to safely optimise them for your computer.

With no DX11 games out yet; you shouldn't notice a huge performance gap between it and the 5850. You could get the 4870 now and in a year or so sell it and put the money towards a now cheaper 5850 -- maybe even a 5870 if you wanna spoil yourself!

Brando_ie

Venom wrote: »

Regarding the GFX card can you use your old one till the 5850 come in stock?

The 5850's prices have gone up in both in the states and in far to many European online stores due to the lack of chips coming out of the factory so the uber bargain it was is looking to be not so uber now.

Farcear wrote: »

Actually, running at 1.5V the RAM is underutilised -- adding more voltage up to 1.65V will get it to run faster. If you want high-performance RAM then you are definately going to be running it higher than the default 1.5v. The RAM should have an XMP setting to automatically adjust the voltge and timing setting to safely optimise them for your computer.

With no DX11 games out yet; you shouldn't notice a huge performance gap between it and the 5850. You could get the 4870 now and in a year or so sell it and put the money towards a now cheaper 5850 -- maybe even a 5870 if you wanna spoil yourself!

Righto. Getting close now..... getting cash sweats

My GPU is currently borked.... got it on adverts and suspect that it got noodled in the delivery or perhaps it is borderline underpowered, but I get all kinds of artifacts and tearing so using it even for a while is not a runner.

I do like the sound of opting for the 4870 and sprucing up the unit next year with the 585x. Is there a dual DVI alternative along the lines of the 4870 or should I use the DVI for the 2ms monitor in my build and the HMDI to the 5ms LCD TV bearing in mind the LCD TV will be my expanded monitor a good bit of the time. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB GDDR5

I don't intend to over-clock the RAM but my reading of your reply is that the RAM could receive up to 1.65V to be fully utilised, but as the motherboard provides 1.5V per socket unlocking the extra juice would be at the risk of frying the board (stuffing 1.65v through a 1.5v pipe) rather than the RAM requesting 1.65V and forcing the board to fry itself?

Farcear

Brando_ie wrote: »

I don't intend to over-clock the RAM but my reading of your reply is that the RAM could receive up to 1.65V to be fully utilised, but as the motherboard provides 1.5V per socket unlocking the extra juice would be at the risk of frying the board (stuffing 1.65v through a 1.5v pipe) rather than the RAM requesting 1.65V and forcing the board to fry itself?

Correct.

You can double check in the BIOS when you boot up what voltages and timings the RAM is actually giving you (default probably 1066mhz CAS 7-7-7-24) -- I would guess that the linked RAM's timings and latency are based on using 1.65v so it may be worthwhile looking for a dedicated 1.5v option.

Does the board provide support for 2000Mhz? I noticed a few threads about tweaks required to get just 1600mhz working stable on it.

Venom

Brando_ie wrote: »

Righto. Getting close now..... getting cash sweats

My GPU is currently borked.... got it on adverts and suspect that it got noodled in the delivery or perhaps it is borderline underpowered, but I get all kinds of artifacts and tearing so using it even for a while is not a runner.

Could the card be overclocked too much? Seeing lots artifacts and tearing is a good indication it is.

Brando_ie

I'd been assured when I purchased it (adverts.ie) that it hadn't been overclocked but perhaps it had been. Certainly in my setup it was just plugged in and didn't start to give problems for the first couple of months.

Brando_ie

Farcear wrote: »

Correct.

You can double check in the BIOS when you boot up what voltages and timings the RAM is actually giving you (default probably 1066mhz CAS 7-7-7-24) -- I would guess that the linked RAM's timings and latency are based on using 1.65v so it may be worthwhile looking for a dedicated 1.5v option.

Does the board provide support for 2000Mhz? I noticed a few threads about tweaks required to get just 1600mhz working stable on it.

This whole Mobo - RAM issue is just freaking the bejesus out of me. So far I have had possible voltage incompatibilities, Mhz support concerns (with possible bios workarounds) fried mobo's risks, CL7 V's CL9 timing queries??????

Any one of those topics leaves me somewhat ashen faced at the prospect of popping the RAM into the Mobo and powering up same to be greeted with the faint crackle of shiny new components frying, followed rapidly by the louder crackle of my brain frying.

To summarise. Can anyone tell me if THIS RAM will work (and by work I mean, no bios tweaking, voltage tomfoolery or just about anything) with this MOBO.

I am wed to neither component (but want 6Gb Ram) and will happily use a lower voltage (1.5v) or slower Mhz (< 2000Mhz) RAM or indeed select a more suitable alternative Mobo for the RAM but without any of the compatibility concerns and / or bios type tweaking that have been raised. I am set on the other components of the build (see post 17) so the only caveat would be that any different Mobo will need to dovetail with the other components. Any recommendations / alternates welcome.

I am a first time builder and KNOW that any tweaking for me would be a disaster waiting to happen.

Any help in this last regard would be greatly appreciated

leninbenjamin

Brando_ie wrote: »

To summarise. Can anyone tell me if THIS RAM will work (and by work I mean, no bios tweaking, voltage tomfoolery or just about anything) with this MOBO.

I'm almost 100% it will. Similar specced Kingston is on the QVL. It works with the X58-UD4P. You probably wont be able to get it's full speed out of it with that board, but it should function fine.

Brando_ie

FINAL SELECTION - Thanks to all involved.

1 No LG W2361V-PF 23" TFT Widescreen (2ms)

1 No LG M237WD-PZ - LCD display - TFT - 23" - widescreen 5 ms LCD TV - BOTH €511 DELIVERED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=461645 - Coolermaster HAF 922 = €92 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=428330 - Gigabyte UD3R = €163 - DELIVERY DUE 11-11-09

1 No 6GB Corsair Dominator DHX+ DDR3 1600MHz = €165 - STOCKED. After all the OCZ blade talk it was bleeding unavailable.... unbelievable!!!

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=492649 - Corsair 650 Watt PSU = €115 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=391447 - Intel i7 920 = €240 - STOCKED

1 No Noctua NH-U12P SE2 CPU Cooler = €63 - STOCKED

1 No http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487794 - Corsair X32 SSD = €121 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB SATA2 = €67 - STOCKED

1 No Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 = €145 - STOCKED

1 No Sony DVD±RW burner DRU-875S = €30 - DELIVERY DUE 12-11-09

1 No Win7 Home premium 64bit OEM version? = €95 - STOCKED

1 No Logitech Z320 2.0 Speaker System = €40 - STOCKED

1 No WD Passport™ Essential 320GB Black = €67 - STOCKED

1 No TP-LINK TL-WN951N Wireless-N PCI = €24 - STOCKED

1 No Akasa 3.5" Multi Memory Reader Internal = €16 - STOCKED

1 No Akasa Cable Management Kit = €11 - STOCKED

1 No Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 3200 Laser - Keyboard / Mouse combo = €87 - STOCKED

TOTAL €2155

Think that just about does it. I'll leave this here and will order the bulk (Komplett) tomorrow lunchtime so if anyone sees any glaring errors then please holler.

Farcear

Seeing as how you are going all out on this build, I might suggest:

Thermal Paste (maximise cooling for a few extra euro; not sure if the fan you have ordered comes with any), e.g: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=460665

Fan Controller (absolutely required if all of your case fans can't connect to the mobo; I regretted not buying one as I was building), e.g: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=319498

leninbenjamin

Farcear wrote: »

Seeing as how you are going all out on this build, I might suggest:

Thermal Paste (maximise cooling for a few extra euro; not sure if the fan you have ordered comes with any), e.g: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=460665

The cooler comes with some. >Link<

Farcear wrote: »

Fan Controller (absolutely required if all of your case fans can't connect to the mobo; I regretted not buying one as I was building), e.g: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=319498

Tbh, considering how cheap a decent fan controller is I'd leave it until the OP get's to know his new setup. The other possibility is simply getting 3 pin fan extension cables from the likes of Maplin or Peats. Indeed this may be the more preferable solution, as most mobos allow you to control the fans through the system and not have to fiddle with knobs. I think whenever you do a build there are always those little regrets but they really only come from hindsight knowledge.

DECEiFER

Listen, I know you've gone a bit over budget, but I do have one concern. It's not of a technical nature, as those have been pretty much ironed out already. It's the size of the SSD. I'm a Windows 7 user since July and I have both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions. You can be sure that 32GB is going to present problems very soon.

First of all, virtual memory (page file). You're going to want that on the fastest drive (the SSD), and with your set-up, I predict a further loss of ~4-6GB to the page file alone. I re-installed my Windows 7 64-bit OS last week. The Windows directory comes in at ~15GB.

You'd also be sure better off putting some of your more high-demanding applications and games on the SSD, too. So you'd need some more room for that, a lot more room.

You might be better off thinking about the already suggested drive's 64GB counterpart:
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487793
(also available, and in-stock here: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169566 - £10 delivery to Ireland)

I know fu*k-all about SSD's, and which of them has the best performance. You could get a bigger one, say 128GB, for about the same money on Ebuyer (Kingston - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173954 or http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173958). How they'd stack up performance wise against the Corsair X64, I couldn't tell you. Maybe someone else can chime in and shed some light on it.

BeansBeans

Brando_ie wrote: »

[ADVICE] Complete new PC setup - all the trimmings.

Sorry about this, I can't help myself. Every time i see this thread i think of a big christmas dinner with all the trimmings :pac:

Brando_ie

BeansBeans wrote: »

Sorry about this, I can't help myself. Every time i see this thread i think of a big christmas dinner with all the trimmings :pac:

True, and perhaps done deliberately to influence the
Unaware. After all, which man woman or beast can
Resist the thought a piping hot Christmas dinner as they huddle over their
Keyboard, and sure, why there, they will impart some
Expert advice to set me straight on my new PC!!
Yeah, Christmas dinner's with the trimmings are just fine by me.

p.s... possible additional blatant subliminal messaging included in this message to ensure one final push this morning before the big order goes ahead. Apologies to the now hungry.

Brando_ie

DECEiFER wrote: »

Listen, I know you've gone a bit over budget, but I do have one concern. It's not of a technical nature, as those have been pretty much ironed out already. It's the size of the SSD. I'm a Windows 7 user since July and I have both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions. You can be sure that 32GB is going to present problems very soon.

First of all, virtual memory (page file). You're going to want that on the fastest drive (the SSD), and with your set-up, I predict a further loss of ~4-6GB to the page file alone. I re-installed my Windows 7 64-bit OS last week. The Windows directory comes in at ~15GB.

You'd also be sure better off putting some of your more high-demanding applications and games on the SSD, too. So you'd need some more room for that, a lot more room.

You might be better off thinking about the already suggested drive's 64GB counterpart:
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=487793
(also available, and in-stock here: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169566 - £10 delivery to Ireland)

I know fu*k-all about SSD's, and which of them has the best performance. You could get a bigger one, say 128GB, for about the same money on Ebuyer (Kingston - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173954 or http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173958). How they'd stack up performance wise against the Corsair X64, I couldn't tell you. Maybe someone else can chime in and shed some light on it.

15Gb..... is that for real!!!..... holy moley. In which case, that advice is well received. At the minimum I'll opt for the 64Gb option from Komplett for ease of ordering but will consider the 128Mb ebuyer version should it be endorsed by others prior to going ahead with the order this afternoon. I intend to be religious in only filling the SSD with key programs but would have liked to stop installing at around the 20Gb (of 32Gb) mark which leave SFA after the OS.

Cheers for the advice

DECEiFER

Brando_ie wrote: »

15Gb..... is that for real!!!..... holy moley. In which case, that advice is well received. At the minimum I'll opt for the 64Gb option from Komplett for ease of ordering but will consider the 128Mb ebuyer version should it be endorsed by others prior to going ahead with the order this afternoon. I intend to be religious in only filling the SSD with key programs but would have liked to stop installing at around the 20Gb (of 32Gb) mark which leave SFA after the OS.

Cheers for the advice

Yeah, do hold off to hear what some SSD enthusiasts have to say about the Kingston vs. Corsair. I'd imagine the Corsair would win out on performance, which is why the price is higher for half the Kingston's capacity.

But, yeah, I'm not joking. Windows Vista and Windows 7, compared with XP, are much bigger. One thing I did forget to mention is that you're getting Home Premium. I'm using Ultimate. I'd say Home Premium would still rank in pretty damn big, though. Even if it was ~10GB, and I can't imagine it being any less, you wouldn't be leaving much room for your other stuff. Also, the 64-bit platforms are always bigger than the 32-bit ones. My 32-bit installation of Ultimate, also re-done last week, is ~10GB (compared to ~15GB for the 64-bit one).

jonny72

I think a lot of people put the swap file onto their secondary HDD and not the SSD, because of the constant read/write

Might be a wee bit slower but will make your SSD last much longer, that said though, SSD buying and knowledge is a bit of a fine art now, the latest gen might have solved some of these little niggles

DECEiFER

My secondary disks are IDE so I choose to keep mine on the primary disk, a Samsung F1 1TB. I figure it's the lesser of two evils... A good hard drive will last, regardless. At least it will last longer than you'd expect. Any good disk I've had, I've been able to retire or give away, none of them have died. The last disk that died on me was a 2GB Seagate (actually, two of them did) in the 90's.

Farcear

What do you even need a swap/page file for with 6+ gigs of RAM?

(Apart from a very small one to prevent system crashes on windows.)

Brando_ie

Thanks for the SSD comments. I am actually going to run with the stocked

1 No Corsair SSD Performance P64 2,5" 64GB = €172

Which offers the little more space to park some primary applications at the least without getting too packed and is only a small bit dearer. I will mull over where to locate the page file but at least as Rafa say's.... options, no.

One of my main bugbears about my current rig is the amount of scratching required to do just about anything and it takes a solid 2 minutes to get even firefox up and running in the evenings (not to mention AutoCAD!!), at least I may have a quieter option should I need it.

I have monitors ordered and just need to straighten out a query on delivery from Komplett before taking the plunge.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and hopefully I will be okay putting all this stuff together.

DECEiFER

Farcear wrote: »

What do you even need a swap/page file for with 6+ gigs of RAM?

(Apart from a very small one to prevent system crashes on windows.)

I normally just let Windows manage it automatically. I know a guy in Sweden who could be considered a computer + programming + networking expert who would advise the same. The man's in his late 30's and has experience dating back into the late 70's. But that's an opinion. Of course, others would suggest differently.

Brando_ie wrote: »

Thanks for the SSD comments. I am actually going to run with the stocked

1 No Corsair SSD Performance P64 2,5" 64GB = €172

Which offers the little more space to park some primary applications at the least without getting too packed and is only a small bit dearer. I will mull over where to locate the page file but at least as Rafa say's.... options, no.

One of my main bugbears about my current rig is the amount of scratching required to do just about anything and it takes a solid 2 minutes to get even firefox up and running in the evenings (not to mention AutoCAD!!), at least I may have a quieter option should I need it.

I have monitors ordered and just need to straighten out a query on delivery from Komplett before taking the plunge.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and hopefully I will be okay putting all this stuff together.

Excellent stuff. Whatever about the page file, 32GB is a bit low these days for the OS. Sure, give it a few years and we'll be buying 1TB SSD's for the same price you're paying now for the 64GB one. I think I'll jump in then and get one.

BeansBeans

Brando_ie wrote: »

True, and perhaps done deliberately to influence the
Unaware. After all, which man woman or beast can
Resist the thought a piping hot Christmas dinner as they huddle over their
Keyboard, and sure, why there, they will impart some
Expert advice to set me straight on my new PC!!
Yeah, Christmas dinner's with the trimmings are just fine by me.

p.s... possible additional blatant subliminal messaging included in this message to ensure one final push this morning before the big order goes ahead. Apologies to the now hungry.

Haha, you would probably have more help if there wasnt a bunch of people dreaming about turkey :P

Brando_ie wrote: »

15Gb..... is that for real!!!..... holy moley. In which case, that advice is well received. At the minimum I'll opt for the 64Gb option from Komplett for ease of ordering but will consider the 128Mb ebuyer version should it be endorsed by others prior to going ahead with the order this afternoon. I intend to be religious in only filling the SSD with key programs but would have liked to stop installing at around the 20Gb (of 32Gb) mark which leave SFA after the OS.

Cheers for the advice

my windows folder is 19.4GB bloody Vista (bisto! damn you roast dinner thoughts, not that i like bisto). Its mad, i had thought that it include Visual Studio and MySql Server etc. But apparently not, what a pig of an OS.

Brando_ie wrote: »

Thanks for the SSD comments. I am actually going to run with the stocked

1 No Corsair SSD Performance P64 2,5" 64GB = €172

Thats a bloody brilliant price, cant get over that. Especially coming from Komplett.

DECEiFER

BeansBeans wrote: »

Thats a bloody brilliant price, cant get over that. Especially coming from Komplett.

Just remember that it's cheaper for a reason... Though, it'll still kick some ass out of your bog standard 7,200 RPM drive at the very least!

Leman_Russ

Just to chime in on the SSD discussion, I run W7 Ultimate off a 40GB Partition on my HDD.

ATM I have 24GB Free after installing windows, drivers, Firewall+Antivirus and a system managed Pagefile. 64GB is more than enough for an OS, Browser and 1 or 2 essential Games. The rest of your files/programs can be stuck onto a HDD.

DECEiFER

Leman_Russ wrote: »

Just to chime in on the SSD discussion, I run W7 Ultimate off a 40GB Partition on my HDD.

ATM I have 24GB Free after installing windows, drivers, Firewall+Antivirus and a system managed Pagefile. 64GB is more than enough for an OS, Browser and 1 or 2 essential Games. The rest of your files/programs can be stuck onto a HDD.

Agreed, but the more the merrier. If only they were cheaper and more it would be!

BeansBeans

DECEiFER wrote: »

Just remember that it's cheaper for a reason... Though, it'll still kick some ass out of your bog standard 7,200 RPM drive at the very least!

I thought the revision 2 had an indillinx controller no? I wouldnt have gone near the older Corsair drives anyway.
I think i was more suprised that the drive is €20 - €30 cheaper than on HWVS. :eek:

Apparently the 2 lower level series of Kingston drives arent up to much, but the M series is equivalent of the Intel. Ah they need to start making model numbers of drives clearer. I like the G.Skill and OCZ ones, nice clear names.

Edit: Actually OCZ will be releasing some interesting SSDs- They wont be cheap

Leman_Russ

The older Kingstons use the Dreaded jMicron Controler, that is why they are cheap.

The New More expensive Kingston ones use the indillinx one iirc.

BeansBeans

Leman_Russ wrote: »

The older Kingstons use the Dreaded jMicron Controler, that is why they are cheap.

The New More expensive Kingston ones use the indillinx one iirc.

Ah ok, no trim support though.

But what is the rev. 2 Corsair one? Im getting incredibly confused now, it seems like manufacturers release a few new lines of SSD every day. Horrible gimps . Ah good for us if you can keep up.

Actually just noticed that G.Skill are releasing the Falcon II soon. 32nm NAND flash, Trim support, Indillinx Eco, and improved speeds it seems.


Ah yes youre right about the Kingston, the old V Series used the JMicron, the M series is the Intel X25-M Gen1 (thought it was gen2), and the V+ Series the one i was thinking of is a Samsung controller, Corsair is Samsung too.
Right i give up.....

AlmightyCushion

BeansBeans wrote: »

Ah ok, no trim support though.

But what is the rev. 2 Corsair one? Im getting incredibly confused now, it seems like manufacturers release a few new lines of SSD every day. Horrible gimps . Ah good for us if you can keep up.

Actually just noticed that G.Skill are releasing the Falcon II soon. 32nm NAND flash, Trim support, Indillinx Eco, and improved speeds it seems.


Ah yes youre right about the Kingston, the old V Series used the JMicron, the M series is the Intel X25-M Gen1 (thought it was gen2), and the V+ Series the one i was thinking of is a Samsung controller, Corsair is Samsung too.
Right i give up.....

The corsair P series are samsung, the x series are indilinx controllers.

I wish manufacturers would stop going after faster and faster speeds, they just aren't that noticeable. Someone should just stick together one with decent speeds (half that of the vertex or there about) with trim support and make it cheaper.

BeansBeans

Ah thank you

Yep the price is whats important at this stage. They will be releasing more of those SSD RaidDrives before they lower the prices .

Leman_Russ

Yup, it's new stuff, so it follows a very set pattern:

Retail Protoypes: Expensive and Crap, for the Hardcore Enthuiast
Early Adoption: Expensive and only a little Crap. For the Enthusiast
Early Mainstream: Less Expensive now but still high. For the Low-Mid Range Enthusiat
Mainstream: Everyone has it, untill they come up with SSSDs, Super Solid State Drives with 3.7% moar Ramz!

Also, nice tip about the G.Skill, gonna have to look into that.

Brando_ie

Just to add to this thread. I got all the components discussed in this thread and as recommended by fellow boardies and put the PC together last weekend.

Its just turned out great and has converted me to the virtues of self building which I had got seriously out of touch with.

Total build was numerous hours split over the weekend but I suspect next time around it would be considerably quicker as I was super cautious over fixing stuff.

As I was working on the machine I thought it would be useful to point out some banana skins I encountered and things that worked out well to help anyone newbie self builders out there who are (mistakenly) holding off going for it. I'm sure a lot of my minor problems are well known but just to collect them together as a round up to this thread might be a good thing.

I'll put some brief descriptions under various headings and hopefully it will prove useful to other folks down the line.

ORDERING:

• I contacted my CC company prior to the orders and gave them general details of the upcoming purchases particularly as I was billing to my home address and delivering to work address. All ordering was very smooth afterwards with no validation tomfoolery (primarily pixmania and komplett)

MISSING ITEMS FROM ORDER.

• I never though to get or borrow a wired keyboard / mouse and had to go looking for one on Sunday morning to install OS (obvious oversight)
  
• Could have done with something to retrieve dropped screws in the chassis (ended up magnetising screwdriver head from a speaker but lost some a lot of time)
  
• 3.5" bay converter for SSD drive. (ended up using velcro on advice from boards but would have preferred a proper bay converter)

BUILD

• I found I kinda knew what I was doing as have cracked open PC's since back in the day but a few connections slowed me down somewhat (HD Audio) and had to take a bit of a punt on using the power fan motherboard (PWR FAN) connection to connect last of the 3 case fans. Having my old PC up and running and watching the odd youtube guide proved very useful if for no other reason than to take stock or confirm what you already (or think you) knew.
  
• I found dry fitting my CPU cooler clear of the motherboard handy, just so I knew what to expect during the real thing.
  
• Pint glass with all screws in saved a lot of searching around.
  
• CONFIRM EVERYTHING even if you are certain you know it. For example, the RAM went in bay 1,2 & 4 for some reason and I would have just gone with 1,2 & 3 had I not taken the time to check prior to installation (may not have been catastrophic but you get the idea) Also, closely followed CPU fan motherboard connection instructions but it was poorly worded and fans were inoperable (used Y splitter into 1 connection so no good) until I made a small change so that could have made short work of my CPU.
  
• First few boots of the rig with the case fully open highlighted the fan problems so I would advise that.
  
• Get it right, then get it looking smart. I had the machine fully working before I got involved in the cable management side of things. It gave me a much better idea of how I wanted to collect the cables and to my credit, the wife thought it wasn't finished as 'there are no wires in it' I could have got bogged down trying to do both and my way meant only a few cables were rerouted afterwards.
  
• Confirm drivers. I discovered (online) that my media card reader had a peculiar installation process for Win 7 and neither Windows or the device CD did the job automatically. Straightforward but a nusience
  
• Format drives. Was freaked out when the device manager could see both my SSD primary and HDD secondary drives but explorer only saw the SSD. Discovered that I needed to format the HDD after the OS was up and running to get it recognised. Again likely obvious.
  
• Used NiNite.com to install a lot of my programs but found out afterwards that it installed them on the SSD so ended up going the manual route with a lot of them so as to keep the SSD clean. Would avoid in future although great idea.

---

Couldn't / Can't get Easy Tune 6 (motherboard tuning software) to run with Win7 so it looks that overclocking down the line may be out. There may be a working version in the future but for now I'm just happy with the stock speeds.

All in all I am absolutely delighted with the new rig and the dual monitors are just freaking awesome. I'll do a benchmark or 2 later but have been downloading a heap so far this month and don't want do get 3DMark in case I end up over my cap but the Win7 internal benchmarks have 7.4 for the first 4 and 7.2 for the last item so I'm fairly happy.

Cheers boardies for all your help.

Anti

Dont ever use that software overclocking bollocks its a pile of shit. Just do some research on the internet and do it all in the bios, its so easy a retarded monkey could do it by bashing his plums off the keyboard while chewing on a banana.