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My job as: A secondary school teacher

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭RHunce


    Doug89 wrote: »
    Great thread :D

    I've wanted to teach for a while, but I kept my options open... I decided to study Commerce International with French in UCD, so I can according to that website teach accounting, business, economics and French.

    But here's where it gets difficult. I'm a big gay. Gay gay gay.

    Section 37 of the employment equality act - teachers can be fired for 'undermining the religious ethos of the institution'. Bad news.

    My question to you is - have you ever come into contact with gay teachers? Young or old? Out to staff or staff and students? How are they perceived? Treated?

    I would have felt that was more of a personal manner, one that should definitely not be discussed with students as frankly, its none of their business. I don't think it should matter but to be honest. Work and personal life should be kept completely separate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭Doug89


    RHunce wrote: »
    I would have felt that was more of a personal manner, one that should definitely not be discussed with students as frankly, its none of their business. I don't think it should matter but to be honest. Work and personal life should be kept completely separate.

    Personal manner, yes.

    But in fairness, it's not really something you can hide, who's never bumped into a student with their partner and kids in Tesco? And it's not something I'm prepared to lie about in the staffroom either. Tell me that teachers don't talk about their kids and other halves in the staffroom? That teachers with staffroom desks don't have pictures of their families?

    If it was just me it could be a 'personal manner and not discussed' kinda thing, but once you've got a family these things change.

    I went to an all girls' school in Dublin, and jesus we knew everything about our teachers....when they got engaged...how many kids they had....what their kids did....if they got married....if they got pregnant.

    Ideas?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Teachers can be fired for 'undermining the religious ethos of the institution'.

    Does this mean athiests are technically breaking this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭RHunce


    Doug89 wrote: »
    Personal manner, yes.

    But in fairness, it's not really something you can hide, who's never bumped into a student with their partner and kids in Tesco? And it's not something I'm prepared to lie about in the staffroom either. Tell me that teachers don't talk about their kids and other halves in the staffroom? That teachers with staffroom desks don't have pictures of their families?

    If it was just me it could be a 'personal manner and not discussed' kinda thing, but once you've got a family these things change.

    I went to an all girls' school in Dublin, and jesus we knew everything about our teachers....when they got engaged...how many kids they had....what their kids did....if they got married....if they got pregnant.

    Ideas?

    Surely you're not undermining the ethos though you're just living your life. If you were to go in one day and say creationism is a load of sh!te, now that's what I'd recognise as undermining the schools ethos. I'm sure there a hundreds of gay teachers, but to be honest who really knows? We aren't told, we don't ask, we can only go by our assumptions. One of my friends thought our teacher was gay, turned out he was married and had three kids. Would it have mattered if he was gay? No. Would it have affected they way he taught us? No. Would it mean we'd show him less respect? No.

    These shouldn't be things you have to worry about in modern day Ireland tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭Doug89


    Yup, basically working in a 'religious institution' (even a hospital etc that has religious patronage) one can lose their job for having a child out of wedlock, or getting a divorce, but in modern Ireland there would be uproar, but it's still feared in the case of the big bad gay teacher.

    My god I want things to change, and I hope they do. It was one of Labour's election promises to try and repeal it, and Rurai Quinn seems to be trying to make steps http://www.mamanpoulet.com/section-37-of-employment-equality-act-raised-at-teachers-conference/

    I still worry that it's a nasty lingering thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    I personally think the best way forward is to abolish all this 'religious ethos' bull**** from schools, times have changed from the 70's and we live in a progressive Ireland, religion should not interfere with the professional world.

    I knew of a gay teacher in a school, many people who knew this were indifferent to it, myself included. It's not something that really matters to a lot of people. You may get a group of small-minded people though who believe it's 'wrong'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 Tomas18


    hi, i was just wondering is there a good demand for language teachers say in French and German. would you advise doing 2 languages like this or would it be better to do French +(history/geography/Irish)
    My other choice would be science primarily that of science education in NUIM. I hear that science will be a compulsory junior cert subject for 2016 or something like that so that would be beneficial. I plan on teaching biology and chemistry so would this be a good combination and is it hard to take up chemistry like this in uni because it is not on the subject list this year:( maybe i will do it outside of school


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    I think Science is a compulsory Junior Cert subject already, but I may be wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 Tomas18


    no it is still optional in a few schools around the country


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Re the religious ethos nonsense, eventually Section 37 of the 'Equality' legislation will be done away with. All of the teaching unions are campaigning to get rid of it and I think the nursing unions might be joining since they are also affected by it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭crayon1


    Hi I was just wondering...I really want to become a biology teacher so I have been looking at the degrees in NUIM and UL. Would it be really hard for someone who hasn't done chemistry for the LC to become a biology and chemistry teacher?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭brian93


    Planning on doing Science Education in Maynooth. People have asked this many times apparently, and the woman at the open day said there's no need to worry. They start from scratch. But if you want to keep it on, you'd probably want to work hard on it in first year.

    I have no physics, but they're starting that from scratch too. No need to worry! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭wayhey


    I've been looking at Science Ed too. I've done LC Chemistry and Biology and I don't want to frighten you but make sure you check out what Chemistry is actually like- at Leaving Cert level anyway it's completely different to Biology and there is some Maths involved in calculations, etc. It's interesting, but not in the same way as Biology (for me anyway) and I find I have to force myself to study it more, to learn off reagents, indicators and stuff off by heart. Like I said, not trying to freak you out but just try to learn a bit about it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 813 ✭✭✭wiger toods


    *bump d bump*

    Hello everyone!

    Do you need to have higher level irish for second level teaching as is with the primary teaching?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Do you need to have higher level irish for second level teaching as is with the primary teaching?

    No you don't.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 NathanOR


    I was just wondering, how do you know what subjects to pick? I mean I would honestly teach everything if I could! I would love to teach a Business subject, a Maths subject, a Language, a Science subject. I just can't choose!! How did you guys pick? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    What I learned from teaching in a few messer classes is not to fight against it the more you grit your teeth the harder it will be, I think they can sense if you feel uncomfortable and are just waiting to catch you out, just don't let it make your work miserable.

    I had banter with them back but at a certain limit I would always stop so they know they can come in have a laugh have a chat but when I say come on now lads we're doing this when we have this done you can do that and kept changing things up.

    I don't think you can ignore or try and fully change those students but you can improve *on them


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    NathanOR wrote: »
    I was just wondering, how do you know what subjects to pick? I mean I would honestly teach everything if I could! I would love to teach a Business subject, a Maths subject, a Language, a Science subject. I just can't choose!! How did you guys pick? :)

    You have to have a degree in anything you are teaching, so what degree you do usually decides it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 NathanOR


    Oh ya I know that but I'd pick my degree on what i'd like to teach when Im done... Id like to teach something like Irish, Maths, Physics or Chemistry. But my problem would be that I'd have to do a science degree for P & C and Irish wont be involved then! :O grrrr... I just don't know! :P


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    NathanOR wrote: »
    Oh ya I know that but I'd pick my degree on what i'd like to teach when Im done... Id like to teach something like Irish, Maths, Physics or Chemistry. But my problem would be that I'd have to do a science degree for P & C and Irish wont be involved then! :O grrrr... I just don't know! :P

    You could aim to teach in a Gaelscoil, or just keep studying Irish because you like it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 PerfectPink


    Hi There :)
    I've just accepted the HDip in UCD for September!!

    I have three questions that I hope you can help me with...

    1. I studied Geography and Economics as a joint major in UCD and am wondering which will be my first special methods subject and which will be my second when it comes to teaching or can I choose? It seems when you do teaching practice you have to teach more classes for the first special methods subject.

    2. Can I just teach Economics, Geogrphy and then Business Studies as far as Junior Cert level?

    3. How do I go about getting TP? Do you just send emails requesting a place, is a CV needed?

    Thanks a million! Any help would be great!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 Delta Alpha


    I got mine in UCC without ever really thinking I'd be offered a place. Must start looking for schools now. I presume we must send out emails and then bring a cv to interviews?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    To get TP just send out CVs or hand them into schools. Do it as soon as possible though because places full up fast.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    You'll be far more likely to get a TP place by calling into schools in person.

    Don't ignore what some see as 'bad' schools, it's often a placement that will stand to you anywhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 Delta Alpha


    we were sent out a list of schools within a 30 mile radius of our college and details including an email address for the principles. Im going to go that route id say, lucky for me I live close to the college and went to school locally. Would be pretty awkward going back doing tp there though. Anyone done this and if so, how did he get on? Was it awkward?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    I knew from an early age I want to get into teaching but I'm just wondering where would you go forward from it? Like after you have done a good few years of teaching, where would you go? I know Deputy Principal or Principal even is generally what people say but what else could you go do? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    we were sent out a list of schools within a 30 mile radius of our college and details including an email address for the principles. Im going to go that route id say, lucky for me I live close to the college and went to school locally. Would be pretty awkward going back doing tp there though. Anyone done this and if so, how did he get on? Was it awkward?

    My PE teacher this year (still in college but is doing teaching experience) went to our school a few years before hand. She said it was actually nearly better she got to come back because she knew some of the teachers and how most of the school was run! Also, As far as I know, might be a rumour , must ask her, but she has supposedly been asked to stay on after her course! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 seamulay


    spurious wrote: »
    You'll be far more likely to get a TP place by calling into schools in person.

    Don't ignore what some see as 'bad' schools, it's often a placement that will stand to you anywhere.

    When you say bad schools, do you mean deis?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    seamulay wrote: »
    When you say bad schools, do you mean deis?

    I mean schools that some people see as 'bad' and dismiss as ones to do teaching practice in. Schools in areas of high levels of social housing and anti-social behaviour, schools which are the ones who take people expelled from elsewhere, schools which have a large number of international students and children with special needs. In my opinion they are the best place to learn about teaching and what goes on in education in Ireland.

    Even within DEIS there is a huge variety of schools.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 seamulay


    spurious wrote: »
    seamulay wrote: »
    When you say bad schools, do you mean deis?

    I mean schools that some people see as 'bad' and dismiss as ones to do teaching practice in. Schools in areas of high levels of social housing and anti-social behaviour, schools which are the ones who take people expelled from elsewhere, schools which have a large number of international students and children with special needs. In my opinion they are the best place to learn about teaching and what goes on in education in Ireland.

    Even within DEIS there is a huge variety of schools.

    The school I completed my first Tp in was very multi cultured and large number of SEN. I think with the other things you mentioned, the problem students teachers are afraid of is behaviour management and students acting up when you have so many inspections. I, personally would be wary that it would just be crowd control in classrooms rather than teaching when an inspector is grading you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 Winnieme12


    Hi all,

    Is it ok to email the schools with your cover letter and CV and then post them a hard copy also? I don't want to send emails if it is very informal! :o

    Thanks :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Winnieme12 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Is it ok to email the schools with your cover letter and CV and then post them a hard copy also? I don't want to send emails if it is very informal! :o

    Thanks :)
    I would email lots of schools, then also send a hard copy to the ones you are really considering and make an appointment and call in to the ones you would really like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    From my experience, it's harder to do your TP in most DEIS schools as there are behavioural issues etc...
    However...if you want a job after the Dip go for it. You learn how to really teach. Again, just my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 Winnieme12


    spurious wrote: »
    I would email lots of schools, then also send a hard copy to the ones you are really considering and make an appointment and call in to the ones you would really like.

    Ok thanks Spurious! I have emailed schools this morning with CV and cover letter attached and have printed them all out to send to the schools I am really interested in. Thanks for that :)


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 7 Clo1995


    Hi all,

    Im thinking about doing Secondary Teaching after school.

    Ive talked to my schools guidance councelor who really just confused me, Ive an interest in French and History, Is it possible to qualify to teach both as they are an unusual combination? I'm thinking about Irish either but i'm still not sure. Does any college provide a course for French and History?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,813 ✭✭✭Togepi


    Arts is your best option, a good few colleges allow you to do French and History through Arts. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 Achtung!


    I am doing Geography and History in college and I have 20 credits of History and 40 of Geography. I didn't think I could become a secondary teacher because it wasn't a joint degree but I emailed the teaching council and they said "In order to register to teach a subject you must have studied it to degree level. Also the subject must be at least 30% of your degree for each year of your degree." So 20 credits is 33% of 60 credits each year.. does this mean I can teach it?? I was always led to believe I couldn't do second level so now its kinda exciting that I can and I don't want to get too excited before finding out that I cant do it! Also.. Is it hard to get into the H Dip? What are they looking for? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭ConTheCat


    Does anybody know about where you can do Geography and Music or maybe PE in Ireland? Don't know about the combination!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭crayon1


    ConTheCat wrote: »
    Does anybody know about where you can do Geography and Music or maybe PE in Ireland? Don't know about the combination!

    UL has a PE and Geography teaching degree! Google LM090 and you'll see it! Points were 495 last year though!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭DublinGAA96


    Hi, does anybody know if there is a course in WIT in waterford for second level teaching? Or an arts degree? I can't find it out or on the Internet. Even a link to the courses in WIT would be much appreciated. Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Avox


    Hi, does anybody know if there is a course in WIT in waterford for second level teaching? Or an arts degree? I can't find it out or on the Internet. Even a link to the courses in WIT would be much appreciated. Thanks

    Lots of courses in WIT can lead to teaching with a H.Dip, but there isn't any specific teaching degrees in Waterford. There's an arts degree on offer there, but a very very limited subject choice within it (basically languages, sociology and religion.).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 eoinseoighe12


    Hi there,

    I am in LC year and I really want to be a secondary school teacher.

    My first choice course is TSM Modern Irish & French in Trinity. If anyone out there has done this combination and may have gone onto teaching what do you think?

    Also, job prospects.... I was talking to both my French and Irish teachers and both of them made an emphasis about the high demand for Irish teachers and there are "ample" jobs for Irish in comparison to any other subjects.

    Also, I am kind of banking on all of the new second level schools to be built between now and 2017... will there be a good spin off of jobs as a result of all of these new schools for new graduates?

    With regard to the PGDE, what is the whole process for applying to do it.... when do you apply, are there interviews involved, does having done voluntary teaching in schools and your chosen subjects help you in getting a place on the PGDE?

    Thanks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭Caught


    Hi guys,

    I'm swaying back and forth between being a secondary school teacher and medicinal chemist and drug developer. I figured if I do medicinal chemistry in TCD (my first choice) or chemical and pharm in DCU (second/third choice), then I could still end up being either at the end, and I'd just decide then whether to do a Medicinal Chemistry PhD (or some sort like that) or a PGE for teaching Chemistry.


    Thing is, with DCU you can change into Science Education from Chemical and Pharmaceutical Science (not sure on how easy it is, but they told me at the open day it's doable), which will qualify me to teach Chemistry and Maths (which I want to teach). But the C and P doesn't seem like it would lead to me being a medicinal chemist, even though at the open day they said thats exactly what their students are made for. If I do that and do transfer to Science Ed, I don't need another degree after, which is grand. But M.C. in Trinity and C and P in DCU are only good for Chemistry (and I need a PGE after).


    I want to design drugs and try make a difference. I dream of working in a lab, like in cancer research, tackling problems and logically figuring out what's going on and trying to fix it (or doing something with radioactivity!). I love the theory of Chemistry, and putting it to use. I want to make something useful, or just put together the pieces of the jigsaw and figure out how to stop a disease or infection.


    I also dream of being just like my teachers for Chemistry and Maths. They both motivate me so much (one is the most amazing teacher any of us has ever had so I want to teach like them, and the other is so rubbish that she makes me want to teach the class). I teach my friends the maths sometimes, if they aren't getting it or missed a class, and I really enjoy it!


    I'm just afraid that I'll make the wrong decision, and end up unhappy, regretful and jobless!


    So does anyone have any advice? Also, I've been searching like mad and can't find this out. If I were to do the non-teaching undergrad courses, would I require another undergrad for maths, or can I take an evening course somewhere?


    Thanks very much for reading anyway!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Jobs in teaching are very rare these days. There are thousands of unemployed, fully qualified teachers. Any new schools that will be built will have thousands of applicants. Our school recently had over 200 applicants for a 4 hour Chemistry teaching position. 4 hours a week and still that many people applied.

    At the moment, most people end up doing 8-10 years on small numbers of hours. In our school we would have a number of teachers in their late 20s still on less than 14 hours a week. Not great after the bother and expense they went to to train.

    That said, if you could get a high standard of Irish that's a good subject for finding hours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    I've a question about teaching qualifications. I understand that if you get qualified to become a teacher, in Maths for example, in Ireland you can become qualified as a teacher in the UK too, but are you able to become qualified and apply for teaching jobs in other countries without going to college in that country? Such as the States, Canada, Australia, Japan, France or even some Third World Countries like China, Brazil, Korea, etc?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭13spanner


    Just a thanks for the post OP.

    I'm in 1st year Arts in Mary Immaculate Limerick. I'm hoping to do Irish and English to degree and eventually teach them. You are where I want to be in a few years :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 Francesp1996


    I have just complted my BA in English and History and I'm taking a year out before I do my PME. I was wondering has anyone else done this? and if you have did you try and get experience in a school?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,605 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    I have just complted my BA in English and History and I'm taking a year out before I do my PME. I was wondering has anyone else done this? and if you have did you try and get experience in a school?

    People may have done this in the past (I did) but it's getting much harder with the need for a teaching council number. You might get experience teaching TEFL if you do a course in that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    dory wrote: »
    People may have done this in the past (I did) but it's getting much harder with the need for a teaching council number. You might get experience teaching TEFL if you do a course in that.

    +1 on this. You can only work unqualified for a maximum of five days and the school have no other choice but to use an unqualified person - this has to be proven, if challenged by a fully qualified teacher. You would only pick up a small amount of subbing as essentially you are a risk. Also, the Teaching Council may not vett you as you are not a teacher and you can't enter a school without Garda Vetting end of. Just because you're considering becoming a teacher - doesn't make you one - it's not as easy as it seems and subbing is even tougher because the students know you're a sub and will run amok and you have no experience dealing with behaviour.


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