What if you quit auditing?

Pisco Sour

25 months into the 42 month marathon and dont know how I can get through the remaining 17 months. I'm absolutely useless at it, have never been so bad at anything in my life, lack confidence when working, and have absolutely zero interest in auditing whatsoever. Basically the whole experience has been miserable and I regret signing up.

However i worked my socks off to pass my CAP 1 and CAP 2 exams at the first attempt (and in most cases passed them comfortably). I dont want to throw away all that good work. Basically my question is is there anyway of still doing your FAE's if you quit your job? Could you finish the remaining 17 months of the 3.5 year requirement in another company and/or business area at a different time? Or is it a case of being locked in?

Locomotion

You can finish your 17 months in another practice and as long as you pass your exams, you will qualify at the end of it. But you won't get your qualifications if you just quit, don't go into a different training firm and then sit your exams externally. The 3.5 years is as much a requirement to qualify as passing your exams.

A friend of mine went to a smaller practice and since then got to work on a lot of management accounts and got a much clearer picture of how small businessess run rather than the small amount you learn by auditing one or two sections of a very large company. He is much happier in his new job and now only has about 5 months left til he's out of contract.

The downsides to it however are:

1) Pay will be about €4-8k lower than your current salary, which I assume is already quite low

2) Before you even approach another firm, you have to clear it with HR in your current firm first.

3) HR will contact your manager to discuss it before they give you clearance to approach another firm

4) The timelag between first talking to HR about it and starting in your new firm could be up to about 3 months. This time may very well be quite unpleasant as managers can be quite spiteful in terms of the work they'll give you if they know you're leaving for greener pastures

Hope this helps. A smaller firm will be much more beneficial to you if you plan to start up your own business someday or work in a smaller company. However, the smaller firm will not help you if you plan to go out into the big firms somedays and attempt to progress to the high paying CEO jobs as these firms seem to look down on any non 'Big 4' accountants

MrMatisse

you dont have to tell your current firm anything

Locomotion

Really-Stressed wrote: »

you dont have to tell your current firm anything

Yea, yea you do, read the rules of training contracts on the ICAI website

mickbyrne

That is top class advice from locomotion. Trainees should alway try to start out in small practice because you get to learn ALL aspects of a business, rather than just seeing a small section of a big audit.

No matter how much you hate it, stick at it. You only have 17 months left out of you're whole life. If you can't find a spot in small practice in the mean time just plug away. At the end, you will have a qualification which will cross over to any job you may possibly want to do in the future.

Pisco Sour

mickbyrne wrote: »

That is top class advice from locomotion. Trainees should alway try to start out in small practice because you get to learn ALL aspects of a business, rather than just seeing a small section of a big audit.

No matter how much you hate it, stick at it. You only have 17 months left out of you're whole life. If you can't find a spot in small practice in the mean time just plug away. At the end, you will have a qualification which will cross over to any job you may possibly want to do in the future.

When I finish I never ever want to work in Accountancy again. Couldnt think of a worse way to make a living. Not even sure if I want to work in business again as I'm not fond of Corporate Culture (arrogant bosses etc etc). Will the qualification still be of use to me even if I want to take a completely new direction career wise? Is it a case of something that would look good on the CV regardless of what area I go into?

The Big Red Button

04072511 wrote: »

When I finish I never ever want to work in Accountancy again. Couldnt think of a worse way to make a living. Not even sure if I want to work in business again as I'm not fond of Corporate Culture (arrogant bosses etc etc). Will the qualification still be of use to me even if I want to take a completely new direction career wise? Is it a case of something that would look good on the CV regardless of what area I go into?

Well put it this way, walking out at this stage in your contract will look bad on your CV regardless of what area you go into, and will be very difficult to explain in an interview!

I know it's much easier said than done, but you definitely should not walk away from the job until you've something else lined up. You're well over halfway there now. Five years from now, you might be doing something completely different but I think you'll be proud of yourself for sticking at it and having a qualification to show for all the shit you went through so far. It's very unlikely you'll regret finishing out the final 17 months anyways. But if you did quit now, then in my opinion there's a very real possibility of you regretting it in five years, when you have a bit more perspective.

By all means keep an eye out for any opportunities in smaller firms etc, and research the option of transferring to one of these for the remainder of your contract. But I definitely don't think that you should quit the training contract altogether, by the sounds of it you've put in a lot of effort and put up with a lot of crap over the past two years and it would be such a pity to throw all that away.

dny123456

Might be a silly question, but what exactly do you hate about auditing? Is it the hours? or the work itself? You mention the 'bosses', what do they do that makes it so unbearable?

Pisco Sour

dny123456 wrote: »

Might be a silly question, but what exactly do you hate about auditing? Is it the hours? or the work itself? You mention the 'bosses', what do they do that makes it so unbearable?

So many things:

The work is horrific and boring beyong belief
The hours are awful sometimes (though are fine when in the office).
Being sent to ridiculous locations in Ireland and the UK miles away from where you live, so nothing to do in the evening times except sit in a hotel room on your own.
The fact that the work (in my opinion) is so irrelevant and makes very little difference to anyone. A nurse and doctor can save lives, a teacher can help give disadvantaged kids a future. I dont see how my work benefits anybody but the partners wallets. I'm only performing tasks because the manual says we have to. My work is only being performed because the client is legally forced to pay for our service, they arent paying for my work by choice. And I hate the way no matter what I do it gets picked apart by managers for the smallest most irrelevant of reasons.
The amount of documentation is ridiculous. More time is spent documenting how we are going to perform the test than is spent actually doing the test itself.
I also hate being really bad at auditing. Its something I wasnt born to do and it doesnt click with me.
And I hate the way the higher people in these organisations are so arrogant and full of egos (as if they are the most important people in the world) and we are just numbers in the company. Nobody is irreplaceable.

Just my opinion.

smileyme1984

In a similar situation to original poster (24 out of 36 months done), working in Big4 and feel exactly the same. I’ve done a Masters and waiting for the FAE results on Friday (haven’t slept right in weeks worrying about them, 2 stupid mistakes in Tax and FA have left me so p***ed off without thinking of the other subjects).

I’m considering applying to smaller companies based on how Friday goes, pass and I’ll be applying, don’t pass and it’s going to be sticking it out for the study leave again. I’m at a point where everyone is saying; it’s only a year, or, at least you have a job, I think I’m going to take someone’s head off when I hear this again. Does anyone have much experience with doing this previously (the moving jobs, not the removing heads)??

I want to finish the contract and know how to do something normal in accounting such as tax returns, accounts preparations, the sort of thing I consider normal accounting work compared to the work I’m doing currently in a small pigeon holed job. Joining a Big 4 was a massive mistake!

As Locomotion pointed out I wouldn’t mind the money difference if it means I’m getting better experience. The managers knew before that I wasn’t happy with the work and limited experience but should I go to them and say I’m considering leaving and what are the implications or go the HR route first or who should I talk to??

What are the possibilities of finding a job in a smaller firm (especially in current market) and what are the chances of them wanting to employ someone with a year left in a contract and only experience in auditing?? Long term I see myself in a smaller firm or business but I’m bothered about people saying you didn’t stick out the contract in one place, I see it as gaining better experience than what I’m limited to at the minute. Would future employers look badly on a change, I see it as gaining more all round experience, would they see it as lack of commitment?

My opinion on auditing is fairly similar to that in post 9 in the thread. It’s horrific! It makes me feel down, constantly narky with people, and de-motivated with life in general which is not the type of person I am. I want to be able to enjoy life and be happy in my job. For me job satisfaction doesn’t exist.

So confused as best thing to do… Sorry too, I’m not trying to hijack the thread just I feel the same at the minute and really not enjoying it.

dny123456

Thank you both for your frank replies. I'm in IT myself, but my partner is currently trying his dam'dest to get into a big4 in accounting. It feels strange to read the 'milk round' thread where everyone is excited about getting interviews and positions etc and then right next to it, the contrast of this thread, which is presumably the same people, 2 years on.

Why does everyone want to get into the big 4 if it's so bad. It couldn't be just for the extra 4-5k? Did you know before you joined that it would be mundane?

Pisco Sour

dny123456 wrote: »

Thank you both for your frank replies. I'm in IT myself, but my partner is currently trying his dam'dest to get into a big4 in accounting. It feels strange to read the 'milk round' thread where everyone is excited about getting interviews and positions etc and then right next to it, the contrast of this thread, which is presumably the same people, 2 years on.

Why does everyone want to get into the big 4 if it's so bad. It couldn't be just for the extra 4-5k? Did you know before you joined that it would be mundane?

I hadnt a clue what I was getting myself into. I went in all energetic, keen to learn, and eager and 2 years later I am completely demotivated and am looking at that stupid contract countdown spreadsheet every week it seems.

Why do they want to join? Because their graduate recruitment packages paint a pretty little picture.

Cyrus

04072511 wrote: »

I hadnt a clue what I was getting myself into. I went in all energetic, keen to learn, and eager and 2 years later I am completely demotivated and am looking at that stupid contract countdown spreadsheet every week it seems.

Why do they want to join? Because their graduate recruitment packages paint a pretty little picture.

if you want my opinion you need to stop whinging and get on with it,

if you are bright enough to pass the exams and get hired in the first place you are bright enough to be 'good' at auditing, it is a simple enough concept to understand, if you apply yourself there shouldnt be a problem.

to be honest it sounds like you have as much of an attitude problem as the people you work for, you will come across pompous asses in every walk of business and life, its a sad fact, dont let it get you down tho,

the best thing you can do is apply yourself properly for the rest of yourtraining contract and try to leave with some knowledge, also have you tried talking to your manager/partner and asking for different experience, maybe a secondment to tax or insolvency?

juicyjellybabe

04072511 wrote: »

So many things:

The work is horrific and boring beyong belief
The hours are awful sometimes (though are fine when in the office).
Being sent to ridiculous locations in Ireland and the UK miles away from where you live, so nothing to do in the evening times except sit in a hotel room on your own.
The fact that the work (in my opinion) is so irrelevant and makes very little difference to anyone. A nurse and doctor can save lives, a teacher can help give disadvantaged kids a future. I dont see how my work benefits anybody but the partners wallets. I'm only performing tasks because the manual says we have to. My work is only being performed because the client is legally forced to pay for our service, they arent paying for my work by choice. And I hate the way no matter what I do it gets picked apart by managers for the smallest most irrelevant of reasons.
The amount of documentation is ridiculous. More time is spent documenting how we are going to perform the test than is spent actually doing the test itself.
I also hate being really bad at auditing. Its something I wasnt born to do and it doesnt click with me.
And I hate the way the higher people in these organisations are so arrogant and full of egos (as if they are the most important people in the world) and we are just numbers in the company. Nobody is irreplaceable.

Just my opinion.

Hi, I thought with a Big 4 you would get a bit of variety even if the work is routine.. I mean how is it boring when your're travelling around to different locations, working with a team and meeting different clients etc..

Thanks

dny123456

Cyrus wrote: »

if you want my opinion you need to stop whinging and get on with it

Ah to be fair, he was only detailing the reasons, because I asked him to. Besides it seems to be quite a commonly held position, so it couldnt just be the OPs 'attitude'. There genuinely must be something awful about working for the big four.

Cyrus

dny123456 wrote: »

Ah to be fair, he was only detailing the reasons, because I asked him to. Besides it seems to be quite a commonly held position, so it couldnt just be the OPs 'attitude'. There genuinely must be something awful about working for the big four.

i can only go on my own experience, the work isnt the most gratifying but there are a lot of positive aspects, and i enjoyed my training overall, an i am now in a job i love because of where i trained.

to be fair its easy enough to find out whats it like before you sign up for it, some people obviously arent suited yet go into it anyway

Pisco Sour

Cyrus wrote: »

i can only go on my own experience, the work isnt the most gratifying but there are a lot of positive aspects,

to be fair its easy enough to find out whats it like before you sign up for it, some people obviously arent suited yet go into it anyway

Back in college before I applied some people from one Big 4 firm came to my college and gave a presentation. Afterwards I asked one of them what exactly would I be doing on a day to day basis, and he basically either wasnt able to tell me or he didnt want to tell me, instead giving me some rubbish filled with buzz words!

Cyrus

04072511 wrote: »

Back in college before I applied some people from one Big 4 firm came to my college and gave a presentation. Afterwards I asked one of them what exactly would I be doing on a day to day basis, and he basically either wasnt able to tell me or he didnt want to tell me, instead giving me some rubbish filled with buzz words!

and on that you decided that auditing was the profession for you

Pisco Sour

Cyrus wrote: »

and on that you decided that auditing was the profession for you

Look I would be confident in saying that about 75% of people who enter auditing havent a clue what they are getting themselves into and havent a clue what they will be doing on a day to day basis. I am not an exception here. The Big 4 simply dont tell you what you will be doing when employed. Why would they? Who on earth would sign up for that!! I didnt know a single person who worked in auditing when I signed up so I had nobody to ask about what life as an auditor is like.

Also I am not an exception with an atitude problem. The Big 4 have a bad reputation and virtually everybody hates it and are counting down the days until they leave. Workplace morale and job satisfaction are very low for most people. Again I'm not an exception here.

Cyrus

04072511 wrote: »

Look I would be confident in saying that about 75% of people who enter auditing havent a clue what they are getting themselves into and havent a clue what they will be doing on a day to day basis. I am not an exception here. The Big 4 simply dont tell you what you will be doing when employed. Why would they? Who on earth would sign up for that!! I didnt know a single person who worked in auditing when I signed up so I had nobody to ask about what life as an auditor is like.

Also I am not an exception with an atitude problem. The Big 4 have a bad reputation and virtually everybody hates it and are counting down the days until they leave. Workplace morale and job satisfaction are very low for most people. Again I'm not an exception here.

listen to yourself?

surely you need to take responsibility for getting into something that you dont like, you didnt do your research.

and i trained in big 4 audit, i did a masters in accountancy before hand so obviously 90% of that class trained in big 4 audit, the majority of people got on fine,

im not trying to make out its a wonderful job, but it is good training and a great qualification, and you meet some great people and have some good craic along the way,

your attitude is all wrong, no wonder you hate it,

what do you think you are going to do after do you mind me asking?

dny123456

04072511 wrote: »

Look I would be confident in saying that about 75% of people who enter auditing havent a clue what they are getting themselves into and havent a clue what they will be doing on a day to day basis. I am not an exception here.

I would say this is probably true. I know my partner is mainly applying for audit as he realizes that most of the recruitment positions are in audit and he has a better chance of getting in, rather than having any insight into what the job entails. He knows that the first year involves doing a lot of crappy jobs like making tea and printing! But beyond that, I don't think the details of the job are gone into.

Pisco Sour

Cyrus wrote: »

and i trained in big 4 audit, i did a masters in accountancy before hand so obviously 90% of that class trained in big 4 audit, the majority of people got on fine,

You did a masters, with auditing as one (or was it two?) of your subjects so you had a much clearer idea of what it was going in.

I'm not saying that I amn't responsible for not knowing what I was getting myself into. I am. What I am saying is that I am not an exception. Practically everybody I have asked have said that they hadnt a notion what they had signed up for.

And anyway that doesnt answer my problem. I cant go back 2 years ago so its irrelevant discussing that it was my fault signing up. Obviously it was, but I cant go back in time.

Cyrus

04072511 wrote: »

You did a masters, with auditing as one (or was it two?) of your subjects so you had a much clearer idea of what it was going in.

i applied for the masters when doing the milkround, i didnt do it before hand,

anyway my advice to you was to ask your manager/partner for a secondment into a different department, maybe it might suit you better

dearg lady

Hi I can really empathise with hating your job, I've been in that situation before! I think you're right, a lot of people straight out of college don't realise what they're getting themselves into with auditing.
I'd go with Cyrus advice initially, maybe see if you can get experience in another area within your company.
Have a look around as well, and see if there are many jobs available in other firms. It would probably be extremely hard to get something at the moment. What you could look into also, I'm not sure if this'd work, is see if you would get many exemptions from ACCA or CPA, and then you could look at jobs in industry too. Again, they're probably thin on the ground, but if I were you, I wouldn't leave your job unless you have soemthing lined up.

I know you should be happy to have a job and all, but I know myself how much I'd hate auditing too, I'm not sure any amount of money would entice me to work in auditing.

Mr Clonfadda

I found Auditing intensly boring but i was in a small firm.
However my experience has been hugely valuable in my current job.

Don't let the job kill you but if you can manage to get your qualification it will help you in the future.

Liamo08

juicyjellybabe wrote: »

Hi, I thought with a Big 4 you would get a bit of variety even if the work is routine.. I mean how is it boring when your're travelling around to different locations, working with a team and meeting different clients etc..

Thanks

I'm guessing that the OP is bored with the work which I can totally understand. If you're working in audit in the Big 4 (especially in the first couple of years) you will spend most of your time doing the same sections of files over and over - the name of the company may change but the work can be very repetitive.

Most people usually hate the travelling as well, it can be hard to make plans during the week when you're either abroad or spending a couple of hours a day in a car commuting to a client in Ireland. It sounds good at the start but it can be hard to have any routine in your life when you don't know where you'll be the next week or what kind of hours you'll be working.

Also the bonus of having offices in good locations or having great facilities are quickly negated if you only spend 10% of your time there.

Driven2Succeed

This thread (and the Milk Round Thread) has really made me think about my future...

I'm in my final year of college and because of the high regard for the ICAI qualification both here in Ireland and also abroad, I have only considered audit as my next step, once I graduate...

From the people i know in Big Four companys, the feedback i get is mostly negative even though the graduate programme on their websites really does paint a pretty picture.

Maybe if i dont get a position with either of the two firms I apply for, this is a blessing in disguise??

Thanks for completely putting me off Audit :rolleyes:

ma.long25

Driven2Succeed wrote: »

This thread (and the Milk Round Thread) has really made me think about my future...

I'm in my final year of college and because of the high regard for the ICAI qualification both here in Ireland and also abroad, I have only considered audit as my next step, once I graduate...

From the people i know in Big Four companys, the feedback i get is mostly negative even though the graduate programme on their websites really does paint a pretty picture.

Maybe if i dont get a position with either of the two firms I apply for, this is a blessing in disguise??

Thanks for completely putting me off Audit :rolleyes:

I am in a big four company and unfortunately for me i chose audit.

All i read where those great graduate brochures that made auditing sound like my dream job.

All this **** about working in teams, learning about companies, travelling around, variety variety , responsibility, client interaction, sounded like the place to be.

Unfortunatley i only knew one person in big four audit before i joined and he really liked it and made me think it was great!!

I wish i ahd known a few people who could tell me the truth.

The truth is frightnening, i would rather clean bathroom that work in audit any more.

The tight deadines, the unpaid over time, the testing and retesting of irrelevant figures.

Who actually gives a crap about the explanation of subtotals that make up the accurals figure in the balance sheet.

Who cares about getting explanation for rebate figures?? and msot of all who reprots an exception when they find one, most pople i know jsut pick another sample !!

looking back i think i should ahve never went into audit i had a chocie between audit and tax but was told tax was too narrow so picked audit instead. what a mistake.

After about 6 months i knew this was the biggest laod of **** ever...
But i kept telling myself things can only get better but tghe further u go the more complex and annoying it gets. After a year when u ahve completed exams its too late to leave and you end up finshing your contract which will involve another 2 years of crap. The best time in audit is when your un assigend and can sit in the office and surf the net...

Try senioring small audits its a nightmare, u ahve to do all your work and the others persons aswell somtimes!!

Im finshed my FAE's now and have a year left till im out of contract... god please bring on the day

dny123456

ma.long25 wrote: »

....

Im finshed my FAE's now and have a year left till im out of contract... god please bring on the day

First, thanks for your detailed posting, it is very informative.

Secondly, what do you intend to do when you are out of contract? I'm pretty sure it's leave the big4, but are you going to stay in accountancy?

biggerard

ma.long25 wrote: »

I am in a big four company and unfortunately for me i chose audit.

All i read where those great graduate brochures that made auditing sound like my dream job.

All this **** about working in teams, learning about companies, travelling around, variety variety , responsibility, client interaction, sounded like the place to be.

Unfortunatley i only knew one person in big four audit before i joined and he really liked it and made me think it was great!!

I wish i ahd known a few people who could tell me the truth.

The truth is frightnening, i would rather clean bathroom that work in audit any more.

The tight deadines, the unpaid over time, the testing and retesting of irrelevant figures.

Who actually gives a crap about the explanation of subtotals that make up the accurals figure in the balance sheet.

Who cares about getting explanation for rebate figures?? and msot of all who reprots an exception when they find one, most pople i know jsut pick another sample !!

looking back i think i should ahve never went into audit i had a chocie between audit and tax but was told tax was too narrow so picked audit instead. what a mistake.

After about 6 months i knew this was the biggest laod of **** ever...
But i kept telling myself things can only get better but tghe further u go the more complex and annoying it gets. After a year when u ahve completed exams its too late to leave and you end up finshing your contract which will involve another 2 years of crap. The best time in audit is when your un assigend and can sit in the office and surf the net...

Try senioring small audits its a nightmare, u ahve to do all your work and the others persons aswell somtimes!!

Im finshed my FAE's now and have a year left till im out of contract... god please bring on the day

This is exactly how I feel. I just started my second year as auditor in a big 4 firm in Dublin.

Back when I started, I expected the work to be slightly monotonous, most office jobs are, that's why we get paid - in exchange for doing stuff we don't necessarily enjoy, i.e. working. However, I never expected the work to seem as pointless and unsatisfying as this. The thought of going back into work on Monday to agree yet another stupid report to a figure on my computer screen makes me contemplate pulling a stunt like Chris McCandless and just leaving it all behind. I know right now these figures won't bloody agree anyway so why the hell am I being forced to perform this stupid unnecessary task. The work is utter crap, pointless and soul destroying and I've worked in some questionable jobs prior to this one and loved the craic with the staff and I could see that my work was achieving something (clean up puke = puke is gone), you never see anything in auditing but another bloody report to tick and bash.

I, like a lot of my co-workers joined the accountancy profession because I was half decent at it in college and I was told the wages would be good. So... I looked into the big 4. Hmmm, graduate recruitment brochure looks good; work in teams, friendly co-workers, exciting opportunities and great promotional pay increases on a yearly basis. So I took the job. The first 3/4 months up to christmas were grand but then it went down hill (more like over a cliff). They cut our wages and basically got rid of promotions i.e. they promoted us without a pay increase.

The job used be half decent craic, work was boring but you always had a laugh with the co-workers. Now, everyone is in such bad form and morale is soooooo low that no-one has any craic on the jobs. The senior staff are all pissed off cos they are senioring audits for **** pay and I'm in bad form cos I can barely afford to go on the piss once a month. I literally just sit there for 7 hours a day and audit, I don't talk to anyone about anything that isn't work related. The only craic I have is with my good friends at lunch and we never end up on audits together. So you can imagine how bad it is in my firm.

I do not plan to stick it out like someone has suggested, maybe things aren't as bad in your firm but my Mon - Fri is absolute hell - the crippling silence, the pointless work - it's completely unsatisfying and I dread every minute of it and one minute is a long time in my job these days.

I have already started to apply for jobs in smaller firms and in industry back home. I plan to ditch the big 4 and the ICAI and join the ACCA, all I need to do are the final exams as my college got me maximum exemptions. I understand the work will still be boring and the pay will still be low but I honestly cannot believe it would be as bad as my current situation and living costs back home are much lower than Dublin so I will be able to budget a lot better until I get my finals.

In saying that, I am not gonna just pack it in and go on the dole. I'll stick it out until I get another job and then I'll leave (or get the sack as my performance is currently in line with my morale). But the thought of another two years of this is seriously depressing.

Anyone thinking of joining the auditing dept of the big 4 - I say give it a wide berth. The good times are over, wait until there's an economic upturn (assuming there will be one). The big 4 are good when times are good, they are really horrific places to be when times are bad.

juicyjellybabe

biggerard wrote: »

Anyone thinking of joining the auditing dept of the big 4 - I say give it a wide berth. The good times are over, wait until there's an economic upturn (assuming there will be one). The big 4 are good when times are good, they are really horrific places to be when times are bad.

Geez, it sounds really bad... can I ask do you go around travelling much for audits or whats the story with that aspect of it?

Thanks

biggerard

juicyjellybabe wrote: »

Geez, it sounds really bad... can I ask do you go around travelling much for audits or whats the story with that aspect of it?

Thanks

It's absolutely horrible, I really don't wanna go back in there on Monday let alone for the next two years :eek:.

I don't travel much now to be honest, I do be out of the office on jobs every so often, I just pray that they have the internet to break up the monotany of the day.

In my opinion, being out on the client site only makes things worse. A change in scenery is not a good thing in Audit. Essentially you end up doing the same crappy, soul destroying tasks that you would be doing in the office. When you are out on the client site, you may not have internet or may have to share a network cable with the audit team, you may not be able to print, photocopying can also be a hassle, you may not be allowed to use the client's canteen (this happened to me, had to eat in the audit room). Also, you have to arrange your own transport there - I have my route to the office perfected so I can get as much time in bed as possible.

The first thing I ask the manager is: "Is this audit being done in the office" and I pray for a yes. It's still gonna be **** but at least you have your mates at lunch. Smalltalk for three weeks with another accountant can be a real bitch

juicyjellybabe

biggerard wrote: »

In my opinion, being out on the client site only makes things worse. A change in scenery is not a good thing in Audit. Essentially you end up doing the same crappy, soul destroying tasks that you would be doing in the office. When you are out on the client site, you may not have internet or may have to share a network cable with the audit team, you may not be able to print, photocopying can also be a hassle, you may not be allowed to use the client's canteen (this happened to me, had to eat in the audit room). Also, you have to arrange your own transport there - I have my route to the office perfected so I can get as much time in bed as possible.

The first thing I ask the manager is: "Is this audit being done in the office" and I pray for a yes. It's still gonna be **** but at least you have your mates at lunch. Smalltalk for three weeks with another accountant can be a real bitch

So do you get mileage expenses etc for travelling round? Oh and how long would an audit take if your're out on the client site?
I'm just realising at the presentations before the interviews they never told us any of these details...

Thanks

biggerard

juicyjellybabe wrote: »

So do you get mileage expenses etc for travelling round? Oh and how long would an audit take if your're out on the client site?
I'm just realising at the presentations before the interviews they never told us any of these details...

Thanks

I have gotten some pretty good expenses on some of the jobs but it can sometimes be a false economy, e.g. I recently got my lunch expenses back from a job which amounted to over 100EUR and I thought that was great but sure I'd spent that on lunch a month earlier when I was on the client site so I made no money on it.

You get mileage if you drive a car (public transport will be paid for by the firm and you will make NO profit on this) and usually only one member of the audit team gets the mileage if more than one drives (I usually get a lift with the senior). You get your lunch paid for, that's it unless you work evenings but there is no more overtime so you wont be working evenings and if you are forced to work them you wont get paid for them.

And these expenses only apply if you are working on a client site that is a certain distance from your office and a lot of the client sites are in the city and won't apply. Trust me, if there's a way they can get away with not paying you, it'll be done and there's nothing you can do about it.

Ah yeah, an audit can last anywhere from 1 week to 4/5 months. Just depends.

ma.long25

biggerard wrote: »

This is exactly how I feel. I just started my second year as auditor in a big 4 firm in Dublin.

Back when I started, I expected the work to be slightly monotonous, most office jobs are, that's why we get paid - in exchange for doing stuff we don't necessarily enjoy, i.e. working. However, I never expected the work to seem as pointless and unsatisfying as this. The thought of going back into work on Monday to agree yet another stupid report to a figure on my computer screen makes me contemplate pulling a stunt like Chris McCandless and just leaving it all behind. I know right now these figures won't bloody agree anyway so why the hell am I being forced to perform this stupid unnecessary task. The work is utter crap, pointless and soul destroying and I've worked in some questionable jobs prior to this one and loved the craic with the staff and I could see that my work was achieving something (clean up puke = puke is gone), you never see anything in auditing but another bloody report to tick and bash.

I, like a lot of my co-workers joined the accountancy profession because I was half decent at it in college and I was told the wages would be good. So... I looked into the big 4. Hmmm, graduate recruitment brochure looks good; work in teams, friendly co-workers, exciting opportunities and great promotional pay increases on a yearly basis. So I took the job. The first 3/4 months up to christmas were grand but then it went down hill (more like over a cliff). They cut our wages and basically got rid of promotions i.e. they promoted us without a pay increase.

The job used be half decent craic, work was boring but you always had a laugh with the co-workers. Now, everyone is in such bad form and morale is soooooo low that no-one has any craic on the jobs. The senior staff are all pissed off cos they are senioring audits for **** pay and I'm in bad form cos I can barely afford to go on the piss once a month. I literally just sit there for 7 hours a day and audit, I don't talk to anyone about anything that isn't work related. The only craic I have is with my good friends at lunch and we never end up on audits together. So you can imagine how bad it is in my firm.

I do not plan to stick it out like someone has suggested, maybe things aren't as bad in your firm but my Mon - Fri is absolute hell - the crippling silence, the pointless work - it's completely unsatisfying and I dread every minute of it and one minute is a long time in my job these days.

I have already started to apply for jobs in smaller firms and in industry back home. I plan to ditch the big 4 and the ICAI and join the ACCA, all I need to do are the final exams as my college got me maximum exemptions. I understand the work will still be boring and the pay will still be low but I honestly cannot believe it would be as bad as my current situation and living costs back home are much lower than Dublin so I will be able to budget a lot better until I get my finals.

In saying that, I am not gonna just pack it in and go on the dole. I'll stick it out until I get another job and then I'll leave (or get the sack as my performance is currently in line with my morale). But the thought of another two years of this is seriously depressing.

Anyone thinking of joining the auditing dept of the big 4 - I say give it a wide berth. The good times are over, wait until there's an economic upturn (assuming there will be one). The big 4 are good when times are good, they are really horrific places to be when times are bad.

Well said you told it as it is my friend!!! You should roint this little leaflet out and make a A9 copy of this and hang it outside the graduate recruitment stand outside for the big four!!

What makes matters worse is that there are so many people qualifying e.g 1312 or something that passed fae this year that competition for jobs is gonno be fierce!!

They wont be that many financial controller positions going, in 2004 there were about 800 that sat the FAE now in 2009 this figure has balloned to 1716, that nearly a 100% increase in the space of four years.

Has nayone factored in the CA who took a year out last year and are returning to the market now!!!

What seemed like the dogs bollocks in 2007 now is really bad,
Anyone see how fecked up the law market is, everyone wants to be a solicitor.. well accountancy is going the same way unless the ICAI does something to discourage the numebrs but why would they... in their eyes it more the merries........

What makes things worse is that after going throught three soul destroying years with, **** pay, boring work, and rock hard exams the msot likely place for an CA is on the dole queue

Surely if you worked in another office job the work would not be so **** and you would not have to do exams!!

I personally feel like i was tricked.... and thats it too late to turn back now!!!

biggerard

ma.long25 wrote: »

I personally feel like i was tricked.... and thats it too late to turn back now!!!

That is unbelievable, me and my mates at work have used that exact same line, you could be quoting us...

ma.long25 wrote: »

well accountancy is going the same way unless the ICAI does something to discourage the numebrs but why would they... in their eyes it more the merries........

Producing accountants is the same as producing any other product, from sweets to cars, it is done for one reason and one reason only... to make someone else rich. The Institute do not give two fooks about any of their members. Why should they, after all they are only in it for the money and to be honest I don't blame them, if I could get a nice wee system like theirs going, I'd be all over that cash cow.

You are spot on about the job market for qualified accountants and it's just gonna get worse and worse as the years go on. I really believe that the market will be so saturated with accountants by the time I qualify that you will be able to pick us up as cheap as a bag of crisps in Aldi. It's simple ecomonics at this stage and already supply is way larger than demand.

I just feel really bad for the poor graduates that are worrying about the milk rounds:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055703954

They are so worried about their performance in the interviews, they have no idea how bad it is once you get in the door. There are the minority that like auditing but what are the chances that you fit in this tiny percentage. If I could go back to that moment in time when I was sitting in that interview room, I would take a big steaming dump on the interviewer's desk just to guarantee that I wouldn't be in the hell that I'm in now.

Apologies for being crude but people need to understand just how bad things are, the time for sugar coating stuff has long passed - welcome to the real world people. My firm lied to me when they offered me this job and now I'm stuck in it because I started it pre-recession and now I'm forced to be "thankful" to have this job because we're in recession and there are loads of people unemployed and worse off. I'm just pissed off that I was lied to and I bought into those lies like a twat. Maybe they weren't lies back in the good times though...... I'm just stating what it is like now.

MrMatisse

33/34k for those who have just passed FAE in the big four.

Wages have really crashed.

suckslikeafox

Really-Stressed wrote: »

33/34k for those who have just passed FAE in the big four.

Wages have really crashed.

Yep and you can be sure the same goes for post-qualification jobs, assuming people can find any.

I'm in a big 4 as well and theres still people thinking they can walk into an 80k financial controller job within 3 years of qualification. Fools, the accountancy ship has sailed and we missed it.

Agree 100% with biggerard and ma.long25, the job is a joke and the brochures are lies. Doing everything possible to get out, the place is genuinely affecting my mental health even when I'm not working.

Alyosha

Anyone with a year or two of tax under their belt want to comment on this thread? I'd really appreciate it. Is the work just as bad? Are jobs just as hard to come by once the training contract is up?

ma.long25

Alyosha wrote: »

Anyone with a year or two of tax under their belt want to comment on this thread? I'd really appreciate it. Is the work just as bad? Are jobs just as hard to come by once the training contract is up?

To be honest i know a lot of people in tax and some complain but most are happy or moderately satisfied in what they do.

About 90% auditors hate their jobs but amybe only abput 20-30% people dislike thier job, those gusy are mainly in Corporation tax, where the work is more mundane!!

Those in smaller firms and personal tax or vat or more inclined to find job satisfaction!!

carrig kid

ma.long25 wrote: »

To be honest i know a lot of people in tax and some complain but most are happy or moderately satisfied in what they do.

About 90% auditors hate their jobs but amybe only abput 20-30% people dislike thier job, those gusy are mainly in Corporation tax, where the work is more mundane!!

Those in smaller firms and personal tax or vat or more inclined to find job satisfaction!!

I've been working in Corporation Tax in a big 4 firm for the past 15 months...the work itself isnt too bad it can almost be interesting at times...the worst part about the job is atmosphere in the office...managers give ya unbelievable **** if ya get even the smallest thing wrong...there seems to be a real blame culture in the big 4...maybe thats because of the pressure on the managers i dunno.

npj85

04072511 wrote: »

So many things:

The work is horrific and boring beyong belief
The hours are awful sometimes (though are fine when in the office).
Being sent to ridiculous locations in Ireland and the UK miles away from where you live, so nothing to do in the evening times except sit in a hotel room on your own.
The fact that the work (in my opinion) is so irrelevant and makes very little difference to anyone. A nurse and doctor can save lives, a teacher can help give disadvantaged kids a future. I dont see how my work benefits anybody but the partners wallets. I'm only performing tasks because the manual says we have to. My work is only being performed because the client is legally forced to pay for our service, they arent paying for my work by choice. And I hate the way no matter what I do it gets picked apart by managers for the smallest most irrelevant of reasons.
The amount of documentation is ridiculous. More time is spent documenting how we are going to perform the test than is spent actually doing the test itself.
I also hate being really bad at auditing. Its something I wasnt born to do and it doesnt click with me.
And I hate the way the higher people in these organisations are so arrogant and full of egos (as if they are the most important people in the world) and we are just numbers in the company. Nobody is irreplaceable.

Just my opinion.

Just a suggestion; if you want something completely different from practicing accounting would you consider secondary school teaching?
See pages 15 on link below. Its from the Teaching Council of Ireland's list of recognised qualifactions for post primary teaching. The ACA qualification would allow you to teach Accounting and Business. You'd probably have to do the HDip in Education as well. Just a suggestion for a possible alternative career path.

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/TC_RegCtee/Autoquals_Updated_9thOctober2009_55076717.pdf

ma.long25

040712

I think teaching would suit u, u seem to be a very laid back person!!! About 5 months holidays sounds great good pay aswell and good perks!!1

censuspro

Learn your trade, become a good accountant and make yourself valuable. Your training contract is effectively an apprenticeship just like an apprentice carpenter or bricklayer. If you are good at what you do you will be paid a premium. There's a common misconception among Big 4 graduates that you walk into an €80K job.

Pisco Sour

ma.long25 wrote: »

040712

I think teaching would suit u, u seem to be a very laid back person!!! About 5 months holidays sounds great good pay aswell and good perks!!1

You clearly dont know me! ha

Maggie21

I just got offered a job in audit in one of the big four and you're all really scaring me!! I had originally wanted to train in a smaller firm at home down the country, but when I got this offer i thought I might be crazy to turn it down, especially with so many accountants qualifying and possibly fewer jobs in the future. Would a big 4 qualification really be better on my cv or should apply for the smaller firms? I really want to move home and I hate the thoughts of being in Dublin for another 4 years.

Cyrus

Maggie21 wrote: »

Would a big 4 qualification really be better on my cv

the fact of the matter is, YES

most jobs specify a preference for big 4 trainees, rightly or wrongly thats how it is,

Also, while this thread is representative of some peoples experiences, its not all bad :rolleyes:

prinz

Cyrus wrote: »

the fact of the matter is, YES
most jobs specify a preference for big 4 trainees, rightly or wrongly thats how it is,
Also, while this thread is representative of some peoples experiences, its not all bad :rolleyes:

Yes and no. I work in a smaller practice and fact is that the trainees they have had here have all gone on to work in Big 4, whereas many in Big 4 are not kept on. We have connections with two in particular where over the years many of the trainees from our firm have been employed. Trainees from smaller firms are in demand for their much broader experience base across all areas, also in general a much better client/accountant relationship due to years of hands on contact between trainees and clients, something I know can be a rare experience for some training in Big 4.

Maggie21

Thanks Cyrus! Thats what I needed to hear, I know in my heart its the best place to train, but this forum is so disheartening! It makes it hard to get excited about the job offer. Can I ask you about being out on audit, would you travel all over Dublin and would where you live have an impact?

Also Prinz, I've been trying to convince myself that smaller firms are better cos they leave you with better experience and all that, as I really would prefer to train in a smaller firm, but as a rule, the big four seem to be more in demand, why is this?

prinz

Maggie21 wrote: »

Also Prinz, I've been trying to convince myself that smaller firms are better cos they leave you with better experience and all that, as I really would prefer to train in a smaller firm, but as a rule, the big four seem to be more in demand, why is this?

Branding, everyone will have heard of a Big 4 firm, inside the industry and outside. Also there are many perks to going with Big 4, better pay, better conditions ( with regard to study time, over time etc ), greater social side of things with a lot trainees, plus you know the institute will take care of you better

Maggie21

Guys can anyone tell me how often in general I would be out of the office on audit and how far will I travel (around the Dublin area)? I know this really depends on your company and your department, but if anyone could give me a rough idea that would be great, thanks