What are your reasons for wanting/not wanting children?

liah

I don't want to post this in the maternity forum because I want a wider range of answers from both women who have had and women who don't have children. If mods still think it should be moved, then so be it, up to you.

**Note: While I normally love the male input here in tLL, and it generally makes the threads on here so much more well-rounded, I don't think any guy could really respond to this thread appropriately. While it does deal with parenting, my main objective is to get the point of view of the mother who, as a rule (obviously not in all the cases), has to go through all the dirt (childbirth, mostly; side effects on the body, mental health, etc).

I've been firmly in the "if you knock me up I swear to god I'll kill ya" camp for quite some time. I don't want kids. There's a ridiculous amount of reasons why, including:

1) I don't want to lose my freedom. The idea of being tied down for 18 years, having my entire life invested in someone else, the first few years not being able to really have much of a social life.. it scares the hell out of me. Yeah, I know there's such a thing as babysitters, but they're not there all the time, there's still an awful lot of crap to deal with.

2) I don't want to be responsible for mentally screwing up another human being. I really, really don't. The utter guilt I'd go through would be just unimaginable if the kid ended up even remotely like me. I don't want the blame for it, I wouldn't be able to handle the teenage "I hate you" years. It would break me.

3) Childbirth. No matter what my body's getting wrecked at least temporarily, if not permanently, and I don't like that. I don't fancy the idea of possibly defecating/urinating in front of a live studio audience. I don't want the stretch marks, I don't want the extra weight, I don't want a c-section scar or a broken vagina. Yeah, it's selfish. All of my reasons are selfish. I'm the first person to admit that. But it's just how I feel.

4) Raising the damn things. I like sleep. I like not having to clean up someone else's behind, I like not smelling like baby vomit, I like not having to get stares of death while walking through the supermarket with a spiteful toddler in tow. I like not having to worry about booking doctor's appointments, scheduling playdates, paying schooling fees. I like having functional ears that haven't been completely destroyed by wailing temper tantrums at 3 in the morning.

5) Possibility of post-partum depression. I have a very sick feeling that I would be ridiculously susceptible to this due to my family's history and my own history with depression in general. I'd be interested to hear if any of you have overcome it and what it felt like, how it was dealt with, etc. But I know it's an uncomfortable topic and I don't expect anyone to put themselves out there like that.

Now, kids are cute and all. I love them, I really do-- when I don't have to deal with the rest of the crap that goes along with them. I love my freedom; I'm selfish and I make no bones about it.

Every parent says their feelings changed when they got pregnant/had kids of their own/whatever. Sometimes I gotta wonder about the validity of it. Do your feelings really change? Is there some kind of epiphany moment? Does love really overcome all? Obviously no mothers are going to say they regret having their kids. And equally obviously about 0.001% actually do have lasting (non-ppd) regrets about it. But do you have second thoughts when all your girls are going out on the town for the night out of the century and you're sat at home trying to take care of a colicy baby?

What are your reasons for wanting kids? Not wanting kids? What were your reasons for having kids if you have them now? Do you wish things were different (that you put it off longer, etc)?

Clare Bear

I've never, ever felt that broody "need" for a child. Ever. I love kids, I adore my nephew and nieces but there's a big part of me that wonders if I'm now 28 and don't have even a tiny bit of broodiness in my body am I ever going to want it? I get broody for animals! I just want a few dogs and I'll be happy!

I too hate the idea of childbirth. I'm terrified of everything to do with it, the pregnancy, the labour, the birth itself...the child!

Never say never, I may want children one day so I'm not completely against it but right now I really can't see it happening. My boyfriend wants children, not desperately but I know he'd like to have them so if we stay together maybe we will have kids together, maybe we won't. I just hope I don't feel pressurised in to it by him or anyone else when that time comes.

So I'm leaving my mind open to the fact that it may happen but if it doesn't then it's not the path meant for me and I'm sure I'll have a fulfilling and happy life without being a mother.

Oh and what I can't stand is people who think there's something wrong with you if you don't want children. Each to their own I say, it's not for everyone.

liah

Clare Bear wrote: »

I get broody for animals! I just want a few dogs and I'll be happy!

Hahaha, my ex and my housemate both commented on this the other day when I was talking to my guinea pig! I get ridiculously broody around animals; I've always surrounded myself with them, I love them to bits and never feel quite "right" unless there's some kind of animal (usually a dog, but I'll take what I can get!) in my life. I've never had that feeling about kids.

If I ended up with a guy who wanted kids.. I'm not sure how I'd react. I think maybe the max I would do (now this is going to sound hugely crass and selfish and just.. wrong) is maybe adopt an older child who was out of the toddler/tantrum phase. Or.. get a surrogate mother if the guy was adamant about wanting the kid to be his (and they usually are). I'm really paranoid about my body getting messed up. Like, nearly to a phobic degree.

Guys always flipping want kids. I reckon it's because they get the "easy" part. :P (god, someone's going to flip on that comment; the smiley is there for a reason! don't kill me!)

bronte

I have similar reasons to yourself Liah.

1. Freedom is a big one. I like that I can head off anywhere whenever I please and don't have to run it by anybody. Some parents argue that they can still manage this to an extent, but I'd imagine it's incredibly difficult.

2.I am a complete and utter perfectionist and I know that even though I'd have the best of intentions, it's almost impossible not to mess kids up. I would never get over the guilt if I felt I'd done them wrong.

3.The birth thing. No. Just No! Shudder. I have a feeling I may be tokophobic.
The mere thought of it fills me with dread.

The only thing I wouldn't agree with is that it's selfish to feel this way.

I have been called selfish by a few people including mumsie herself and I get quite annoyed. It would be inherently selfish if I chose to have kids and didn't dedicate the amount of time and care I should to them, instead attempting to maintain my freedom. Making a decision to not have them for pretty valid reasons is simply good sense and not in the least bit selfish.
As I say to my mum whenever she brings it up "You cannot be selfish towards something that doesn't exist"

Clare Bear

Oh don't get me started on my Mum. She thinks I'm going to die lonely with just a dog for company (it could be worse), she doesn't get it at all. Obviously she is a mother so she wouldn't understand not wanting to be one.

Slugs

My male input :P:

At the moment, I can't justify having kids. From a social perspective, I'm not liking the way the world is headed, and couldn't justify raising a child in those conditions. It would absolutely break my heart, as well as being a source of burden and responsibility, which I would feel some amount of guilt for. Also, I'm not great with long term commitments in terms of relationships, and I know single parents raising a child works, but given the fact that I'm a guy, the chances of me having full custody over a child are slim at best, and I couldn't deal with having to split time with my child with the mother. I don't have anything against children (anyone under the age of 10 that is), but I don't think I could put myself through it. I'm only 18, and anyone I've spoken to about it have all ****ed on about "oh I was the same as you", and all that useless nonsense, but the reality is, no one is the same as me, so you can't expect me to come to the same conclusions as you, or have the same reasons for not wanting kids as well.

CathyMoran

I'm petrified of the birth but I knew that with my husband I would want to try for a baby. This goes from wanting to see what the two of us together would look like but also because he is adopted. The big crunch was when I found out that I had a serious illness and as a result of treatment might never have a child, that had me more upset than the illness, strange though it sounds.

I have subsequently had 5 miscarriages and am 16 weeks pregnant now but scared that we will loose the baby - I am suprised the love that I feel for this child (and the other ones we lost), though I do worry about the baby all the time. Seeing your baby and its tiny hands and legs and feeing it kick inside you is beyond wonderful.

liah

Slugs wrote: »

I'm not great with long term commitments in terms of relationships, and I know single parents raising a child works

See, there's another thing that terrifies me. My mother raised me on her own and I know 100% it was absolute hell. Now granted, a great big part of that in my early years had an awful lot to do with my drunk drugged up abusive stalker of a father, but she struggled the whole way through working her ass off to give me whatever she could (and, god love her, it wasn't a lot, but she tried her best and I have so much respect and love for her for it) and even now hasn't recovered monetarily from having to keep me on her own.

I wouldn't be able to do it. I just wouldn't. If the father left me stranded high and dry like my father did-- disappearing off the face of the earth without even a hint of child support payments, nevermind the psychological trauma-- I'd be completely screwed. And I'd feel horrible for the poor kid who'd have to deal with that and be scarred for life like me.

I guess I have a pretty messed up picture of the "family structure." But single parenting is becoming so, so common these days, it's not like it's an illegitimate worry.

I don't want any kid to grow up like I did. I grew up way too fast and no kid deserves that.

Kids are supposed to be innocent.

jellie

In my late teens / early 20s i wasnt too pushed on the idea of having kids. My parents split when I was 15, it fecked me up for a bit, and my logic was that I didnt want to ever risk putting anyone through something similar. I always liked babies and small kids but just liked in a "ah arent they cute" kinda way

In the last few years things changed. I cant really identify when, but I warmed to the idea. With my ex we discussed kids, how many we'd like etc., and as you plan your life out in your head (where it all goes perfectly of course :rolleyes:) in my head there were babies there as part of the plan, and as part of my future family. I wanted babies, but it was more than that, I wanted them with him. Not at that exact moment, but 5yrs down the line or so.

Anyway, we broke up :rolleyes: But my feelings didnt change on kids. I think ive been getting increasingly broody (Im 25 btw). Im in no hurry to have kids, and sure id need a daddy for them first , but Id be sad if babies werent a part of my future. I think right now id just love a friend or relative to have a baby so i could use all my broodiness on that baby & then hand it back when it got too much

Maple

I never used want children. My parents split, I was the eldest, there was so much drama and responsibility that landed on my shoulders at such a young age that I swore I just wanted to be by myself. Plus my parents stuck us all in the middle of their war and it was horrendous.

Fast forward 6 years and when a consultant told me that a gynae issue I had wouldn't affect my ability to have children I broke down crying. It was the first time I faced up to the fact that I would like to have them.

I still believe that I would like to have children, however recently both my brother and sister have had little ones blessed upon them. The responsibility and sheer life changing that happens as a result of a child is staggering. So I figure while I would like them, i'm not ready just now.

Mind you, there is the issue of a Baby Daddy being missing which I do feel adds to my whole do i-don't i quandry. I would hate for any child to go through what I went through. However I can only hope that I'd have learned from all that happened me and be a better parent as a result of it.

I do hope that it will happen. Some day.

shellyboo

liah wrote: »

What are your reasons for wanting kids?

I have no valid reasons... I just want them. For me, it's as simple as that. Want to be pregnant, want to give birth, want to raise kids. I've always been fairly maternal, I guess, and I've had a few guys/bfs say (this is highly embarrassing ) that I'm a 'natural mother'.

If it turned out I couldn't have kids, I would be devastated. I have no idea where this desire in me comes from, all I can do it put it down to how I'm wired. I'd never judge someone for not wanting to have kids - I figure if I'm programmed to want them, there must be other people who are programmed not to want them.

In this day and age when we have choice, I don't think it's selfish to exercise that choice and decide not to have kids.

liah wrote: »

Every parent says their feelings changed when they got pregnant/had kids of their own/whatever. Sometimes I gotta wonder about the validity of it. Do your feelings really change? Is there some kind of epiphany moment? Does love really overcome all?

This is kind of part of it for me, I think. I want to know what it feels like emotionally to have kids, to experience that bond - I imagine it to be different to anything I've felt for my friends or family now.

liah wrote: »

Obviously no mothers are going to say they regret having their kids. And equally obviously about 0.001% actually do have lasting (non-ppd) regrets about it. But do you have second thoughts when all your girls are going out on the town for the night out of the century and you're sat at home trying to take care of a colicy baby?

I don't think that's an issue for me, or at least it won't be - at 25, my nights out on the town are getting fewer as it is, and at the end of the day, my ideal plan is to be in a relationship before I have kids. Daddy can sit at home taking care of the colicy baby while I go on my night out of the century!

I don't think having kids is the life-ending thing that a lot of people make it out to be.

Porkpie

liah wrote: »

**Note: While I normally love the male input here in tLL, and it generally makes the threads on here so much more well-rounded, I don't think any guy could really respond to this thread appropriately.

Things are looking bad when you're not even welcome in a thread. :rolleyes:

Silverfish

Porkpie wrote: »

Things are looking bad when you're not even welcome in a thread. :rolleyes:

Well, it's a thread, in the Ladies lounge, about whether the ladies would like to be mothers or not.
I can't see what could possibly be contributed, unless there's been medical advances I don't know about.

Now, can we please keep this thread on topic, rather than 'Hurf durf why can't I post in this thread'.

lil'bug

i don't want to have a child either
i'm not responsible enough to have one plus i don't really like kids that much
i'm 25 and i'd be happy never to have one, i don't think i'm selfish. there are so many kids out there with no one i'd proberbly get more out of sponsering a child than having one

miss_feminem

I'm actually not sure why I want kids - I suppose I've been conditioned really. I mean, most of us are given dolls to look after when we're children.

I have a mothery nature to me as well though so I would like to bring a child in to the world and pass on my knowledge (or lack of), etc.

Having said that, I do not want kids for at least another 5 years. My b/f and I just could not financially support a child. Plus I'm still a kid myself :P

Morgase

I have absolutely no interest in having children. My reasoning is similar to that of liah and bronte.

I did get the impression growing up that a lot of people seemed to have children as a sort of insurance - someone to look after them in old age or be company for them in old age. I would hate to do that to a child. I'm not saying anyone here is like that - it's more of a "back in the day" thing.

I know that my boyfriend does want to have children sometime and I know I definitely don't, so I really don't know what is going to happen there. It's not something that either of us are going to compromise on!

Thankfully he really does get that I do not want children but I confess that I do get annoyed when people stick their noses in and say things like "oh you'll change your mind" etc. As if people with vaginas are all of a hive mind and all will conform!

Warfi

I can't imagine myself having children at the moment because
1. I'm single and can't procreate on my own, despite my best attempts
2. On a more serious note, my job involves working with children, and I've seen the amount of energy and commitment it takes to be a parent of a child. I really don't think I would have the same energy and commitment!

I am looking at it from a single person's point of view though. If I had a partner (and we were on the same page), I'd imagine I would view it differently

Madame Razz

Reading this thread makes me feel a lot better!

I have zero interest in children or having children.

I am not and never have been in any way broody.

And aside from that; how the hell does anybody afford kids???

I know that my OH is mad for children but he is aware of how I feel and says that when it comes to it, if it's something I really don't want to do then he will go along with that; I don't think he would be massively happy about it tho.

CathyMoran

Madame Razz wrote: »

Reading this thread makes me feel a lot better!

I have zero interest in children or having children.

I am not and never have been in any way broody.

And aside from that; how the hell does anybody afford kids???

I know that my OH is mad for children but he is aware of how I feel and says that when it comes to it, if it's something I really don't want to do then he will go along with that; I don't think he would be massively happy about it tho.

If you want them you make sacrifices in terms of your time and money for the rest of your life but they are worth it.

Madame Razz

See, I just can't see that worth, I just can't. I thought I'd feel differently as I got older but now in my late twenties I think that I'm actually more vehemently against the idea than I was when I was younger.

CathyMoran

Madame Razz wrote: »

See, I just can't see that worth, I just can't. I thought I'd feel differently as I got older but now in my late twenties I think that I'm actually more vehemently against the idea than I was when I was younger.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, the problems may be that when you get older you may regret that decision but if you are certain then stick to your guns...having children is not the easy option, I have been worried about my unborn child from the moment that we started trying for him/her.

liah

Well, so far we haven't had any responses from anyone who's actually a mother, so, all I've gained from this thread so far is that:

1) The anti-kid brigade has a buttload of reasons for not wanting them, as well as just never really feeling "broody" (at least towards children).
2) The pro-kid brigade's general consensus is that it's a natural feeling for them to want them, and they want to know what it's like, and/or they're not sure why.

Would be really interested to hear from some mothers, see if their perspectives changed (in either direction) once they had kids and how/why; if they were against kids then fell pregnant and their mindset changed, etc. Ultimately I know the answer will be "it's worth it all" but.. I'm just wondering why it's worth it. What makes it worth it?

Xiney

I just really love children.

I can't wait to have children with my husband. I think our children will be beautiful and intelligent and sensitive. I hope they take everything good from our genes and hopefully less of our bad. I want them to have his blue eyes and freckles and my awesome hair. I want at least one ginger kid, and we've both got the genes for it so fingers crossed! I hope that we raise them to be curious and creative and that they love art and music and science and books and dark comedy just like us.

And I can't wait to see my husband teaching them to play gaelic football, and taking them to ice hockey lessons, and watching our dog be gentle and kind with them. I want to bring them to the zoo, and go camping and roast marshmallows with them.

I want my husband to order ridiculous montreal canadiens onesies off the internet for them when they're babies.

I know it's not all sunshine and roses. I know I won't get to sleep in for years. I know there are huge responsibilities, and that my social life will get difficult.

But I can't help but think that it'll all be worth it.

liah

Xiney wrote: »

I just really love children.

I can't wait to have children with my husband. I think our children will be beautiful and intelligent and sensitive. I hope they take everything good from our genes and hopefully less of our bad. I want them to have his blue eyes and freckles and my awesome hair. I want at least one ginger kid, and we've both got the genes for it so fingers crossed! I hope that we raise them to be curious and creative and that they love art and music and science and books and dark comedy just like us.

And I can't wait to see my husband teaching them to play gaelic football, and taking them to ice hockey lessons, and watching our dog be gentle and kind with them. I want to bring them to the zoo, and go camping and roast marshmallows with them.

I want my husband to order ridiculous montreal canadiens onesies off the internet for them when they're babies.

I know it's not all sunshine and roses. I know I won't get to sleep in for years. I know there are huge responsibilities, and that my social life will get difficult.

But I can't help but think that it'll all be worth it.

You nearly turned me with that.
Beautifully put.

banshee_bones

I used to think that I wanted children. As an only child, I went through a phase of craving that big family and the security and over protectiveness that comes with it. For years i wanted two boys and two girls.

My best friend, same age as myself, only ten days between us, is also an only child and has just had a baby boy. She never wanted kids but shes just great with the baby. Kudos to her, but mostly now after seeing everything she went through it has shown me that it is something i do NOT want.

My reasons are much like Liahs.

1) I am very selfish, i am cranky when I havent eaten or had sleep. Two things that you start sacraficing when you become a parent in the early months.

2) Childbirth. As Liah said, in a room full of people staring at you, no thanks. I don't even partiularly like going for tan and waxes and thats just semi naked with one professional in the room.

3) I dont have the support system that other folks have. My father passed away and I have a very dysfunctional relationship with my mother. No borthers and sisters either. So no doting aunties and uncles and grandparents around to give a helping hand every now and then when your in a tight spot.

4) I am not maternal. I do not get broody. ever. Even with my godson. Even when his parents sit there smiling at me when im holding/feeding him.. going "ah comon it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world" I am like . Eh no thanks. Also would not want to screw up another human being, the responsibility,having endless patience and all that parenting/maternal stuff, I just dont think its for me.

Then I have the people who tell me that when I meet Mr right that il change and il want to have children and i say well hed want to be pretty fúcking amazing to make me want to change all that and have children....

Khannie

liah wrote: »

Would be really interested to hear from some mothers, see if their perspectives changed (in either direction) once they had kids and how/why; if they were against kids then fell pregnant and their mindset changed, etc. Ultimately I know the answer will be "it's worth it all" but.. I'm just wondering why it's worth it. What makes it worth it?

Seeing as the mums aren't jumping in, I can give you a dads perspective if you like? I can give you what I think are my wifes reasons too, though I'd have to confirm them with her later, we're more or less in sync on why we have / want kids.

liah

Khannie wrote: »

Seeing as the mums aren't jumping in, I can give you a dads perspective if you like? I can give you what I think are my wifes reasons too, though I'd have to confirm them with her later, we're more or less in sync on why we have / want kids.

Sure.

metaoblivia

Not a mother, so apologies liah, but I'm kind of wishy washy on where I stand about being a mother. I could take it or leave it. On the one hand, my life has involved very little compromise, and I like that. I like being able to do what I want when I want and not being tied down to anyone or anything. I don't believe that being a mother is something that has to happen in my life.
However, I think that if I did have a child, the sacrifice and the compromise would be worth it. I think children are the best people in the world. I love their sense of wonder and imagination. I love watching them learn about the world around them. I love not only the potential that's inside of them, but also the potential that they see in the world that we adults sometimes forget exists.
My only real concern with having children is my medical condition. Not just labor, but pregnancy itself would be very hard on my body (the gist of it is, my joints are very weak and slip out of place easily and my skin and organs tear and bruise very easily, and it takes a long time for my body to heal). I'd love to adopt or foster children, but I'd have to be married first (it's becoming a requirement more and more), and I would have to feel that I was in the right place financially and emotionally to make such a commitment.

Real Clare Man

The big problem for women here is the fact that once they reach a certain age the decision is taken out of their hands and even if they suddenly decide they want a child it may then be too late.....my advice would be where possible to have a child....you will love them and they will love you...very basic and bland answer but sometimes people over analyze things.

WIZE

the point of life is to reproduce so thats what I plan to do

Warfi

Real Clare Man wrote: »

The big problem for women here is the fact that once they reach a certain age the decision is taken out of their hands and even if they suddenly decide they want a child it may then be too late.....my advice would be where possible to have a child....you will love them and they will love you...very basic and bland answer but sometimes people over analyze things.

True, but you have to go into it with your eyes wide open. A friend of mine used to always talk about having children, had this image in her head that all it entailed was sitting in a rocking chair rocking the child to sleep.

She changed her tune when she worked in a primary school for a few months

CathyMoran

Real Clare Man wrote: »

The big problem for women here is the fact that once they reach a certain age the decision is taken out of their hands and even if they suddenly decide they want a child it may then be too late.....my advice would be where possible to have a child....you will love them and they will love you...very basic and bland answer but sometimes people over analyze things.

Its not that straight forward though - you can be young and still have ferility issues.

shoegirl

For me, its a number of reasons, the primary one being no desire at all really. I don't honesty believe in the "natural instinct" thing at all, I do feel a huge chunk of it is social conditioning, or as one of my male friends put it, just a sense of taking for granted that its something that is going to happen.

Even in my early teens I knew that deep down I had no urge to have children. People have lectured me continuously down through the years on how broody I would get when I hit 30 but honestly now at 37 things haven't changed at all. I still struggle to understand why some friends feel desperate to have children despite being on the verge of menopause, on their own and not in the most stable of life circumstances. A lot of friends talk about feeling "something is missing" which I don't feel at all. Especially friends who come from families where their siblings have children and they don't. Thats not the case in my family so there is no sense of being left out since we all are childless.

What strikes me is the taken for grantedness of it on one side, and the sense of entitlement to have children, which in a sense I do find shocking. I really do think that the reason women don't naturally give birth in their late 50s and 60s is a healthy one for children, having seen the hit on my mothers health giving birth at 41 did.

I do wonder do people really think about it though.

Khannie

liah wrote: »

Sure.

Fair enough:

So I'll address my perspective on your concerns first (and why they're not big things for me)....

liah wrote: »

1) I don't want to lose my freedom. The idea of being tied down for 18 years, having my entire life invested in someone else, the first few years not being able to really have much of a social life.. it scares the hell out of me. Yeah, I know there's such a thing as babysitters, but they're not there all the time, there's still an awful lot of crap to deal with.

So I partied a lot in my teens and 20's. I kinda got bored of it to an extent. Now I still really enjoy a night out....don't get me wrong, but when I want one I either:

a) Go without my wife
or
b) We organise a babysitter (mostly a grandparent).

Sure....we don't get out together that much, but it's not a big deal. We spend time in together a lot and we really enjoy it.

Do I feel like my freedom has been curtailed? Eh, possibly, but it's enhanced in other ways. I can play games with my kid on the street and have a great laugh without feeling like a gobsh1te. You try playing hide and seek with your mate in the supermarket and see what kind of looks you get.

liah wrote: »

2) I don't want to be responsible for mentally screwing up another human being. I really, really don't. The utter guilt I'd go through would be just unimaginable if the kid ended up even remotely like me. I don't want the blame for it, I wouldn't be able to handle the teenage "I hate you" years. It would break me.

Ah sure they'll be grand. People generally turn out just fine. Could I be a better dad? Probably. Do I make mistakes? You betcha. Am I doing a good job? I like to think so. My kids love me and that's a good sign.

liah wrote: »

3) Childbirth. No matter what my body's getting wrecked at least temporarily, if not permanently, and I don't like that. I don't fancy the idea of possibly defecating/urinating in front of a live studio audience. I don't want the stretch marks, I don't want the extra weight, I don't want a c-section scar or a broken vagina. Yeah, it's selfish. All of my reasons are selfish. I'm the first person to admit that. But it's just how I feel.

So yeah...the whole "HOLY F*CK!, THAT JUST CAME OUT OF MY FANNY!!" thing is a thing alright. The vagina is remarkably elastic and with some pelvic floor exercises it can return to normal fairly quickly. I'm not saying you'll be the same after. You wont. Time takes its toll on the body though one way or the other.

For the most part stretch marks can be avoided with a bit of effort (bio oil).

Pooing during child birth isn't that common, though a valid fear for sure. I sure wouldn't want to poop in front of a stranger (or anyone!!!).

liah wrote: »

4) Raising the damn things. I like sleep. I like not having to clean up someone else's behind, I like not smelling like baby vomit, I like not having to get stares of death while walking through the supermarket with a spiteful toddler in tow. I like not having to worry about booking doctor's appointments, scheduling playdates, paying schooling fees. I like having functional ears that haven't been completely destroyed by wailing temper tantrums at 3 in the morning.

Lack of sleep is not that big a thing. The perception of it is definitely worse than the reality (IMO anyway). The first 8 weeks are rough, but then it gets better. When one of us is losing out on sleep we'll take turns to give the other a lie in.

Cleaning a bum is actually surprisingly not a problem. I thought I'd really hate it, but when it's your own you just get on with it. It's not that it smells like roses or whatever, it's just something that needs to be done, like taking out the bins, or washing the dishes.

liah wrote: »

5) Possibility of post-partum depression. I have a very sick feeling that I would be ridiculously susceptible to this due to my family's history and my own history with depression in general. I'd be interested to hear if any of you have overcome it and what it felt like, how it was dealt with, etc. But I know it's an uncomfortable topic and I don't expect anyone to put themselves out there like that.

Can't really speak on that one.

liah wrote: »

What are your reasons for wanting kids?

So here's what I like about having kids:

Life's more fun. We have a great laugh. At dinner. At breakfast. During the day. Kids make life fun. The things they say, the way they look at life, going to feed the ducks, going to the playground, going to the beach. Fun!

There's a lot of love in our house. I get 3 hugs and 3 kisses on my way out the door. When I get home I get excited faces looking at me.

The hard part is really the first 2 years. After that kids get progressively more self-sufficient (this is both their desire and yours). Beyond 4 (ish) they get up themselves in the morning and come in for a snuggle or make their own cereal and turn on the TV to watch whatever cartoons are on. But, during that first 2 years you get this really powerful sense of being a carer and it's great.

The bond you have with your child is incredible.

For me, if I'm honest, the desire to reproduce is very base. It's partly an urge. I can't justify urges, nor would I try to.

There are a hundred other things that I really like about being a dad. We have 2 kids and a 3rd on the way. The 3rd will probably not be our last! :eek:

Lastly, I've had friends who weren't interested in having kids in their 20s. In fact, one who springs to mind was vehemently against having them. Then she met the guy who she married and her perception changed over time. All I'd say to you is: Don't back yourself into a corner. Some people aren't suited to having children, sure, but I think that number is smaller than the number who don't want them in their 20's.

Quality

I never wanted kids growing up... It was something that I did not see or want in my future.

However an unplanned pregnancy changed my feelings.

So I had a little girl at 19. It was a very difficult time for me emotionally and my whole life changed. For the better I would say. The birth was traumatic for me(but very fulfilling) and it was such a surreal feeling to be leaving the hospital with "MY BABY".

I had spent my whole pregnancy hearing people say negative things about my pregnancy.. Your going to be fat... Your going to be covered in stretch marks.. Your too young to be having a kid.. YOur whole life is over..

Nobody ever tells you what it feels like to have a child and the love and joy you can get from them. They never tell you about all the good things.
Its a wonder I didnt pack it all in!!

Anyhow, I dont regret for having my daughter.. She is 10 now and the last 10 years have been great.. The positve parts of parenting far outway all the negatives...

I am 30 now and have 3 kids... My two little boys are great as well. It does get easier the more you have, because I think you are a bit more relaxed with each child..

And the labour is nothing... Thats an easy part, the hard part is rearing them.


In years to come when I am on my death bed, the important things to me will be my family and the ones I love around me.
I am not going to be thinking of my cars, and houses and jobs that I have had in the past..
Family is very important.

Real Clare Man

CathyMoran wrote: »

Its not that straight forward though - you can be young and still have ferility issues.

Which is why I said where possible....I know plenty of people who can't have children and for some people this thread is very emotive but the thing is if a person makes the call in their 20's or 30's they cannot change their mind and peoples ideas of what makes life exciting is so different at 45 than at 20.

minidazzler

Real Clare Man wrote: »

Which is why I said where possible....I know plenty of people who can't have children and for some people this thread is very emotive but the thing is if a person makes the call in their 20's or 30's they cannot change their mind and peoples ideas of what makes life exciting is so different at 45 than at 20.

But having kids they will possibly resent is not fair on them or their child.

Silverfish

Can we get back to whether people want to be mothers or not, and why they want to be / are one, thanks.

Oh The Humanity

Not a Mother either sorry Liah.

Never was interested in dolls, playing Mammy or never imagined having kids when I grew up. Never imagined any future strangely!

Reasons I don't want them:

1. The worry and guilt. 24/7 worry and guilt are they safe/healthy/being reared properly. I look at my sisters who had kids late and they are only starting into 20 years of pure hardship and difficulty.

2. The responsibility. Nowadays you can't just pop them out and send them to school and tell them to do as they're told and kick them out to work at 17. All kinds of pony/ballet/music lessons have to be provided to even the dullest and most average of kids. Then every kid expects that college is a right after school and hasn't a notion of paying their own way, so you don't get rid of them at 17, in fact they begin to demand the really big bucks then. Kids are expected to be very pampered and dependant now which I wouldn't have much patience with.

3. Discipline methods now. Kids are spoilt beyond belief now, allowed to run riot around in public places without being corrected. I dislike the modern idea that the whole world is a creche and everyone is collectively responsible for the rugrats that litter the ground. Parents -if you bear em you rear em. That means if they are blocking an adult you remove them and another thing teach them manners! I wouldn't be up to the job myself to be honest!

4. Pregnancy. There is nothing whatsoever that has ever appealed to me about being preggers. As my honest sister said 'pregnancy is $hit'. Pregnant bellys I find hard to deal with, I dont like looking at them or touching them, the stretchiness, the veins all over the bump. Euw.

5. Birth. Pain, $hitting yourself, your nice tight sausagepurse possibly stretching or TEARING :eek: wrecking your sex life for ever more....why? why? why would anyone want to go through that? And the whole childbirth Olympics women go on with, 'mine was 79 hours long, I had first degree teears in fact my clit fell right off ...' etc etc PLEASE !!! Just NO !
Its NOT a competition to see who is the hardest!

6. Sex life ruined forever! Kids wreck your sex life so thats pretty much the dealbreaker right there!

7. Tiredness. I get tired just babysitting for 24 hours. I could do 20 years but I dont want to!

8. Mess and disorder in the gaff. The gaff full of brightly coloured plastic crap.

9. Teenagers. I really take my hat of to parents of teenagers. Horrible obnoxious ungrateful parasites (thats me when i was one) It would really serve me right if I got lumbered with a bad one as revenge but so far I have dodged it! phew

Im sure there is more but enough horror from me!

pikachucheeks

At the moment, I have four reasons for not wanting children.

A) I'm too young.

I'm twenty one, and personally, I feel that, for me, that's too young to have children. I'm not judging other people of the same age, or younger, who have kids or want to have kids, I just feel that, on a personal level, I'm not mature enough to have children or be a mother, at my age.

I'm not in a committed relationship.

I wouldn't want to get pregnant or plan a family unless I was in a committed, serious relationship. At present, I'm single and wouldn't want to go through pregnancy being single, without the support of a long-term partner.

C) I'm in college.

Right now, I have other priorities in my life. The main one being my degree. I want to keep my focus on doing well in college, getting a good degree and subsequently, getting a good job.

D) I'm afraid of giving birth.

Think this is true of a lot of women. I'm scared of the pain. I'm scared of what might happen to my body. I'm scared of never getting back to a pre-pregnancy state.

All these reasons might change, however. In the future, I might be open to having children, but right now, it's just not an option or something I consider.

Real Clare Man

pikachucheeks wrote: »

At the moment, I have four reasons for not wanting children.

A) I'm too young.

I'm twenty one, and personally, I feel that, for me, that's too young to have children. I'm not judging other people of the same age, or younger, who have kids or want to have kids, I just feel that, on a personal level, I'm not mature enough to have children or be a mother, at my age.

I'm not in a committed relationship.

I wouldn't want to get pregnant or plan a family unless I was in a committed, serious relationship. At present, I'm single and wouldn't want to go through pregnancy being single, without the support of a long-term partner.

C) I'm in college.

Right now, I have other priorities in my life. The main one being my degree. I want to keep my focus on doing well in college, getting a good degree and subsequently, getting a good job.

D) I'm afraid of giving birth.

Think this is true of a lot of women. I'm scared of the pain. I'm scared of what might happen to my body. I'm scared of never getting back to a pre-pregnancy state.

All these reasons might change, however. In the future, I might be open to having children, but right now, it's just not an option or something I consider.

3 of those reasons are easily dealt with....you will just have to live with the fear.

Xiney

Real Clare Man, the point of this thread is not to bring everyone over to your side.

Please do not reply to this thread again like that.

Ta,

Xiney

shellyboo

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Not a Mother either sorry Liah.

Never was interested in dolls, playing Mammy or never imagined having kids when I grew up. Never imagined any future strangely!

Reasons I don't want them:

[sweeping generalisations]

Im sure there is more but enough horror from me!

Your reasons all sound a bit... sensationalised. A lot of people in the world are parents - their lives, not even their sex lives, were "ruined forever". If that was true, nobody would have more than one kid.

I respect anyone's right to make the choice, but I don't see the value in painting parenthood to be this total life-ending eternal nightmare. It's not, otherwise people wouldn't do it, or at least they wouldn't do it more than once.

Oh The Humanity

shellyboo wrote: »

Your reasons all sound a bit... sensationalised

Ehm, it is supposed to be tongue in cheek Shelly!

shellyboo wrote: »

I respect anyone's right to make the choice, but I don't see the value in painting parenthood to be this total life-ending eternal nightmare.

Hm, you maybe need to speak to a few more parents! Seriously though I was being tongue in cheek. I don't believe its a total nightmare but neither is it all like a Milupa advert!

From my own experiences with my nieces and nephews and hanging out with parents they all do say its the hardest thing they have ever done. I think my opinions are valid.

Whispered

I don't want children, I never have, I'm 25 and not in the least bit broody. I feel akward around kids and while I think "oh thats cute" a pup or kitten or even a duck would get more of an emotional reaction TBH (please note I'm not comparing children to ducks)

Clare Bear wrote: »

. She thinks I'm going to die lonely with just a dog for company (it could be worse),

haha, thats going to be me. Either that or I'll be a crazy cat lady

CathyMoran wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, the problems may be that when you get older you may regret that decision but if you are certain then stick to your guns

This is something I often think about. I am adamant I do not want them NOW, but being told by every 2nd busybody that I will change my mind has me worried that I will live to regret it. My OH would make a fantastic father, but he's not pushed either way on having kids and often says he's lucky to have someone who's not pressuring him into having them. But again, I would worry that he will regret it too.

Quality wrote: »

However an unplanned pregnancy changed my feelings.
.

This is something else I often think about, and sometimes I'd nearly like to have an accidential pregnancy. I know if it happened I'd love the baby either way and it would take the decision away from me. Does that make sense?

I can be very anxious at times, if a family member is sick, or doesn't make contact when expected, or if my phone rings late at night I immediately panic and think the worse. I would probably go insane with worry if I had a child. And I think that, at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to for me. I can cope with sleepless nights and sacrafice. But the worry of having a child, something that dependant on you, would be too much for me.

Morgase

shellyboo wrote: »

Your reasons all sound a bit... sensationalised. A lot of people in the world are parents - their lives, not even their sex lives, were "ruined forever". If that was true, nobody would have more than one kid.

I respect anyone's right to make the choice, but I don't see the value in painting parenthood to be this total life-ending eternal nightmare. It's not, otherwise people wouldn't do it, or at least they wouldn't do it more than once.

I don't know how the other women with my outlook feel about it, but for me I just don't want to risk any of those things.

Sure my body will probably recover, sure my wallet will probably get used to buying extra food / school books, and I'm sure I would get used to having less freedom. I might even get used to not being able to play World of Warcraft whenever I like

But I don't want to risk it at all. In my head having a baby would come nowhere near compensating me for what I would be giving up.

That's just me though.

shellyboo

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Ehm, it is supposed to be tongue in cheek Shelly!

That's fine... what are your real reasons then if that's a joke?

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Hm, you maybe need to speak to a few more parents! Seriously though I was being tongue in cheek. I don't believe its a total nightmare but neither is it all like a Milupa advert!

From my own experiences with my nieces and nephews and hanging out with parents they all do say its the hardest thing they have ever done. I think my opinions are valid.

I know it's not like a Milupa advert... but neither is it "20 years of pure hardship and difficulty". Just seems like you painted the worst-case scenario. If I'd come in here and said "people who don't have kids lead sad, loveless lives, they're lonely all the time, they have no fulfilment, no kids means life is pointless, it's so selfish not to have them", I'd have been ripped to shreds - I don't see why you need to be so harsh about parenting. It's a choice like any other.

I'm not denying it's not the hardest thing someone will ever do - but that doesn't mean it's 100% bad.

Oh The Humanity

shellyboo wrote: »

That's fine... what are your real reasons then if that's a joke?

They are my real reasons. I didn't say it was a 'joke' -I said it was tongue in cheek. Theres a difference.

shellyboo wrote: »

I know it's not like a Milupa advert... but neither is it "20 years of pure hardship and difficulty". Just seems like you painted the worst-case scenario.

No, I didn't paint the worst case scenario, my humor may be a lot blacker than yours. Anyway the title of the thread is 'what are your reasons for wanting/not waiting children?'
I gave my opinions and if you feel they are the worst case scenario then you have a rude awakening ahead of you Im afraid. I may have employed a little black humor as I said but but the grain of truth is there.

shellyboo wrote: »

If I'd come in here and said "people who don't have kids lead sad, loveless lives, they're lonely all the time, they have no fulfilment, no kids means life is pointless, it's so selfish not to have them", I'd have been ripped to shreds - I don't see why you need to be so harsh about parenting. It's a choice like any other.

Jesus , relax the kacks. One womans 'harsh' is another womans realistic. Im not pi$$ing on parenting. Your interpreting it that way and getting a little to personal while your at it too. You could say the above all you like, I wouldn't get bent out of shape about it. Its just someones opinion on an internet forum.

shellyboo wrote: »

I'm not denying it's not the hardest thing someone will ever do - but that doesn't mean it's 100% bad.

I never said it was but if I wanted to I would.

Any key?

liah wrote: »

I don't want to post this in the maternity forum because I want a wider range of answers from both women who have had and women who don't have children. If mods still think it should be moved, then so be it, up to you.

**Note: While I normally love the male input here in tLL, and it generally makes the threads on here so much more well-rounded, I don't think any guy could really respond to this thread appropriately. While it does deal with parenting, my main objective is to get the point of view of the mother who, as a rule (obviously not in all the cases), has to go through all the dirt (childbirth, mostly; side effects on the body, mental health, etc).

I've been firmly in the "if you knock me up I swear to god I'll kill ya" camp for quite some time. I don't want kids. There's a ridiculous amount of reasons why, including:

1) I don't want to lose my freedom. The idea of being tied down for 18 years, having my entire life invested in someone else, the first few years not being able to really have much of a social life.. it scares the hell out of me. Yeah, I know there's such a thing as babysitters, but they're not there all the time, there's still an awful lot of crap to deal with.

2) I don't want to be responsible for mentally screwing up another human being. I really, really don't. The utter guilt I'd go through would be just unimaginable if the kid ended up even remotely like me. I don't want the blame for it, I wouldn't be able to handle the teenage "I hate you" years. It would break me.

3) Childbirth. No matter what my body's getting wrecked at least temporarily, if not permanently, and I don't like that. I don't fancy the idea of possibly defecating/urinating in front of a live studio audience. I don't want the stretch marks, I don't want the extra weight, I don't want a c-section scar or a broken vagina. Yeah, it's selfish. All of my reasons are selfish. I'm the first person to admit that. But it's just how I feel.

4) Raising the damn things. I like sleep. I like not having to clean up someone else's behind, I like not smelling like baby vomit, I like not having to get stares of death while walking through the supermarket with a spiteful toddler in tow. I like not having to worry about booking doctor's appointments, scheduling playdates, paying schooling fees. I like having functional ears that haven't been completely destroyed by wailing temper tantrums at 3 in the morning.

5) Possibility of post-partum depression. I have a very sick feeling that I would be ridiculously susceptible to this due to my family's history and my own history with depression in general. I'd be interested to hear if any of you have overcome it and what it felt like, how it was dealt with, etc. But I know it's an uncomfortable topic and I don't expect anyone to put themselves out there like that.

Now, kids are cute and all. I love them, I really do-- when I don't have to deal with the rest of the crap that goes along with them. I love my freedom; I'm selfish and I make no bones about it.

Every parent says their feelings changed when they got pregnant/had kids of their own/whatever. Sometimes I gotta wonder about the validity of it. Do your feelings really change? Is there some kind of epiphany moment? Does love really overcome all? Obviously no mothers are going to say they regret having their kids. And equally obviously about 0.001% actually do have lasting (non-ppd) regrets about it. But do you have second thoughts when all your girls are going out on the town for the night out of the century and you're sat at home trying to take care of a colicy baby?

What are your reasons for wanting kids? Not wanting kids? What were your reasons for having kids if you have them now? Do you wish things were different (that you put it off longer, etc)?

I agree with everything you've said and their the same fears I have ESPECIALLY the idea of birth. What a hideously disgusting "miracle". I don't think its selfish to not want children. Its a life choice.

I do however want children.I can't explain it, its just a definate for me. I do want to wait until I'm alot older and I've had a lot more life experience but I feel a life without them would be less meaningful (not judging just my opinion). If I couldn't have children It would destroy me.

I work with kids and in a way I thought that would put me off but everyday they make me smile and make coming into work that bit nicer.

Khannie

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

They are my real reasons. I didn't say it was a 'joke' -I said it was tongue in cheek. Theres a difference.

So you mean them then? I'm a bit confused myself.

sam34

i have never wanted to have kids, and i absolutely cannot see that changing.

there are many reasons for this, some of which may seem superficial and trivial, but collectively they make sense to me.

firstly, i just dont want them, being a mother has never appealed to me.

i dont really like kids, i find them irritating, demanding, time-consuming and noisy.

i dont want the responsibility of having them, thats a life-long commitment - no thanks. my parents (mid 70's still worry about me and all my siblings, depite the fact that we are all happy, in good jobs and healthy)

i'm quite an independent person, i value my own space and time, and i do not want to share that with others.

i like my freedom, i like being able to decide to do something/go somewhere on a whim and not have to take other people into consideration.

i have watched my 7 siblings become parents, and i have seen their lives change utterly, and, imo, not for the better. i can honestly say ive never once looked at any of them and envied them.

i have quite a serious and responsible job, so when i get home i like to kick back and be more light hearted and irresponsible (for want of a better word)

i highly value the integrity of my pelvic floor muscles

i can find nothing about having children that would outweigh the things ive listed above.


it disgusts me that others can be so patronising and say "oh you'll change".
just because they wanted kids, and that was teh right decision for tehm, does not mean the same will apply to me.

i made a decision at 17 regarding teh career i wanted in life, people respected that.
in my mid twenties i made a decision to turn down a marriage proposal, people respected that decision.
why can they then not respect teh decision i have made regarding having kids.

i was recently diagnosed with a condition which means i would have difficulty conceiving, the gynaecologist was trying to be gentle when breaking this news to me, but i was practically cartwheeling with delight. while i am religious about contraception, teh knowledge that a pregnancy is very unlikely to happen accidentally is hugely reassuring to me (the gynae was a bit taken aback when i explained this!)

the idea that a woman should have kids "while she can" even if she doesnt want them, just in case she changes her mind when its too late, is unfathomable to me.

why would someone do something they feel strongly opposed to, just because they may one day regret not doing so?? i think to do so would be a huge disservice to the woman herself and to her children.

so many people have kids because thats the done thing, its what most people do, or they get pregnant accidentally. while anyone can get unlucky, theres a failure rate with all contraceptives, i think having kids just because its what most others do is ridiculous.

for similar reasons, i would never get seriously involved with a man who had kids.

i simply do not want children in my life. its a deal-breaker for me.