Am I nuts?

elfantastico!

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, 1st time poster!

I just wanted to get your opinions on what's been floating around in my brain for the past 6 months;

- I currenly work in a back office position (Hedge Funds Services) for one of the large US banks. It would be fair to say i don't enjoy my job and there's a reluctance to come in EVERY morning. I have learnt everything possible in my area, have no interest in what the company offers jobs wise in Ireland and my impression of 'climbing the ladder' here, is like climbing to nowhere respectable.

- I've been interested in the markets for years and have read books, done courses, built a small portfolio of Long term picks etc, but never been as actively involved as I would like.

- Im currently earning 35k a year, doing a job that's long hours buy not massively stressful.

SOOO....

- I've built up €20k in savings and would be willing to lose it all trading for myself full time (Probably US, AIM markets, some Mid-Term FX). I'd hand in the notice, pick up another monitor, sign up for level 2 trading info and good trading platform and do this full time from home for the next 6months to a year!

Conditions;
1. I'd operate on fairly strict rules when it comes to limiting loss and hedging risks).
2. I don't expect to make 35k in my first year, would be happy with 10k!

If it doesn't work, I think (but obviously can't be certain given the state of this country) that i'll be able to pick up another job afterwards..

So what do you think - Am I Nuts?

Smcgie

No I admire you. If you believe in yourself then that's half the battle. But whatever you do don't burn your bridges with your company.

elfantastico!

Sorry, new to Polls!

Could a mod make the results public?

Idu

I don't think you're nuts but I don't think you appreciate the difficulty of what you're proposing. Have you ever placed a trade? You can read all the books in the world but without real life experience you are fighting a losing battle. If you were looking to get a package that would allow you to compete on an even keel you would be taking a massive chunk out of your capital.

Personally I don't think you've put enough thought into the details. If you had posted with how much your overheads would be and had a clear trading strategy I could offer more constructive advice but it seems a bit pie in the sky to me.

Why not dabble in trading on the side while you still have the cushion of your job because without proper experience the chances of you making money trading are slim, IMO

If I were you I'd look into getting into a trading firm in town, be in through their training programme or and internship and use the 15k to live on because you won't be getting paid much but in the long run I think you'd be better off

Idu

Forgot to mention that although you say you would be tight on risk and hedging you cant say for sure whether you will or not till you've actually been in that situation. I've been trading for years and there's still times where I'm over my downside limit but I find myself hoping the market will turn in my favour

kmick

50% return on 20k net of fees is a tough ask in your first year. I would advise that you could probably make 5k just being a long trader in the evenings and keep your 35k job in the meantim therefore earning 40k next year.

elfantastico!

Hi Idu,

Thanks for the response, just to answer a few questions.

Idu wrote: »

I don't think you're nuts but I don't think you appreciate the difficulty of what you're proposing. Have you ever placed a trade?

I fully appreciate how difficult this is going to be but think it will be 1000times more fufilling than my current role. I've been building a portfolio for the past 5 years, and traded in and out alot with IB and other UK Brokers.

Idu wrote: »

If you were looking to get a package that would allow you to compete on an even keel you would be taking a massive chunk out of your capital.

I haven't done alot of reasearch into advanced packages and reiterate this is an idea I have. Could you suggest some that would give that even keel?

Idu wrote: »

Personally I don't think you've put enough thought into the details. If you had posted with how much your overheads would be and had a clear trading strategy I could offer more constructive advice but it seems a bit pie in the sky to me.

Idu wrote: »

Why not dabble in trading on the side while you still have the cushion of your job because without proper experience the chances of you making money trading are slim, IMO

Your right again on the above, but i kind of feel it's a double edged sword, without being properly in I can't get the time to trade as I would like. I do alot of research and work the figures before I invest which means my decisions are limited to weekends/late late 3am nights, which isn't feasible for work.

I do have a strategy but wonder what it's really worth until im trading daily under normal market pressures. I was thinking a rules based approach would serve me better and then develop the strategy further as I locate strengths.

Idu wrote: »

If I were you I'd look into getting into a trading firm in town, be in through their training programme or and internship and use the 15k to live on because you won't be getting paid much but in the long run I think you'd be better off

I was under the impression Davy's, NCB, Goodbody weren't hiring, are there other companies in Dublin?

Idu

Davy's et all are stockbrokers not trading firms. If you wanted to get into that you wouldnt be trading your own account. Can you give me a clearer picture as to what type of trading you want to do for yourself? Do you want to be able to execute your own trades without a broker or would you be happy using sharewatch to make your trades?

lucky-colm

hi
ithink you are mad and iam going to say that in the pole in the minute

you have got a job at the moment there is nothing stopping you from trading while you work see how it works out for a while.

because one thing i have learned is its one thing doing something for a passtime/hoby its another trying to make a living out of it.

i tried this with online poker a while back i was making a few quid playing at home in the evening and when my job finished i stayed at home for a month playing poker and didn't win a thing. but luckily i had a machine out on long term hire so i fired the guy driving it and took his job. i still play alot of online poker and make a few quid at it but again my lesson not learned from the last experience announced one night about 3 weeks ago that we were all going to the carribeann on a cruise next year courtisty of full tilt, well i can safely say that won't be happening

what iam trying to say is that once it is your family and putting food on the table and paying the rent/mortgage it is a different story and whether or not you realise it, it will affect your decisions and usually makes you less willing to gamble which you must do if you want to make money out of gambling and that is what the stock market is gambling.but if you know what you are doing what the hey. iam still going to tick the your mad box:D

lucky-colm

wtf
where is the results:mad:

how many said you were mad and howmany said go for it and how many people just love ataris?

mickman

why not trade and keep your job. its easy do do both unless you are day trading which is a mugs game anyway

elfantastico!

Idu wrote: »

Davy's et all are stockbrokers not trading firms. If you wanted to get into that you wouldnt be trading your own account. Can you give me a clearer picture as to what type of trading you want to do for yourself? Do you want to be able to execute your own trades without a broker or would you be happy using sharewatch to make your trades?

Apologies, I knew Davy's were brokers but assumed they did some prop stuff as well.

Are there trading firms in Dublin who would hire someone like me? (without a finance/math defree). One of the reasons i was considering this is given the current labour market and competition for front office positions.

I want to trade equities, fx, commodoties, use options and take long/short positions. I would want to trade on my own account and preferably without a broker.

I can't get away with trading in work 4-5 times a day or having the screen's open all day, unless i use stop losses? But i think i'd want to be checking my positions throughout the day and taking action if required. I suppose perhaps i could use the stop losses and make decisions at night.

Just to address another post, im under 25, €350 rent a month and no family to support/loans to pay.

mickman

dont see why you cant spread bet and work at the same time. u said ur job is not that stressfull

elfantastico!

mickman wrote: »

dont see why you cant spread bet and work at the same time. u said ur job is not that stressfull

It's not that stressful, but it's long hours and im busy throughout the day.

As above - "I can't get away with trading in work 4-5 times a day or having the screen's open all day"

Eventually someone will see what im doing and if it's somebody in mangement, they won't be too impressed.

mickman

sure you dont care about the job so why not take their money and trade for as long as you get away with it? im doing this for 2 yrs now and never get caught

xebec

lucky-colm wrote: »

wtf
where is the results:mad:

how many said you were mad and howmany said go for it and how many people just love ataris?

Viewable now...

elfantastico!

mickman wrote: »

sure you dont care about the job so why not take their money and trade for as long as you get away with it? im doing this for 2 yrs now and never get caught

Do you spreadbet? Can people see your screen? Im working in an open plan office.

mickman

yes i spread bet

the 3 guys around can see me and i dont give one fek

then again i work in IT so nothing i do is logged

Idu

elfantastico! wrote: »

Apologies, I knew Davy's were brokers but assumed they did some prop stuff as well.

Are there trading firms in Dublin who would hire someone like me? (without a finance/math defree). One of the reasons i was considering this is given the current labour market and competition for front office positions.

I want to trade equities, fx, commodoties, use options and take long/short positions. I would want to trade on my own account and preferably without a broker.

I can't get away with trading in work 4-5 times a day or having the screen's open all day, unless i use stop losses? But i think i'd want to be checking my positions throughout the day and taking action if required. I suppose perhaps i could use the stop losses and make decisions at night.

Just to address another post, im under 25, €350 rent a month and no family to support/loans to pay.

There are prop trading firms who would hire you without any qualifications. Geneva, Positive Equity and X-Connect are here I believe. There's loads more in London. These companies are pretty immune from the depressed jobs market.

lucky-colm

mickman wrote: »

sure you dont care about the job so why not take their money and trade for as long as you get away with it? im doing this for 2 yrs now and never get caught

agreed
so what if you get caught sur youre thinking of leaving anyhow and you don't like the job