10M Air pistol

G17

Advice and or links for a complete novice, stuff to read prior to my licence being issued?

Especially stuff along the lines of:

"If I could start all over again I'd.........."

or

"lordy lordy, oh my word, if I'd have known <insert knowledge>.........."

not

"when I was a boy, you'd whittle a stick, usually birch......."

or

"aha, I'm glad you asked, apparently, during the Crimean........"

Thank you.

rrpc

G17 wrote: »

Advice and or links for a complete novice, stuff to read prior to my licence being issued?

Especially stuff along the lines of:

"If I could start all over again I'd.........."

or

"lordy lordy, oh my word, if I'd have known <insert knowledge>.........."

not

"when I was a boy, you'd whittle a stick, usually birch......."

or

"aha, I'm glad you asked, apparently, during the Crimean........"

Thank you.

Well the best place for discussion, tips and tricks and links is: www.targettalk.org

A bit like here except without the shouty bits and with more emphasis on actual sport

rrpc

rrpc wrote: »

Well the best place for discussion, tips and tricks and links is: www.targettalk.org

A bit like here except without the shouty bits and with more emphasis on actual sport

Oh no you did-ent!

Sparks

Ah, more boards.ie bashing from boards.ie regulars. Hooray. :rolleyes:
That said, there's some good stuff on target talk (though to be honest, they have more dross on there than we do and just as much politics, but it's down to ISSF/Bullseye spats rather than ISSF/IPSC spats).


G17, there's basicly one secret to 10m pistol shooting (and to all pistol shooting to my mind) - watch the sights. If all you focus on is watching the sights and keeping them aligned, then you'll do well and the other stuff, like trigger control, comes along in its own time - but watching the sights is the first thing. There's a strong instinct to watch the target you see, but if you do that, you're lost. In 10m air pistol, you'll see the pellet going downrange if you watch the target - and you'll get to see it hit the wall beside the target as well because you weren't watching the sights.

Also, if you're starting with an ISSF 10m pistol, you'll note that there are a lot of things you can adjust even on a basic model.

Don't.

Seriously, don't. It's going to take a while before you know how you shoot well enough to modify anything at all without messing up your shooting. Leave the pistol completely stock (maybe lower the palm shelf at the bottom of the grip if you can't get your hand around the grip because of it, but that's it - once you can grip the pistol, stop adjusting and lock up the hex keys). In three to six months, if you're training a lot, you'll be ready to adjust stuff and you'll know how and why you want to adjust it. But for those three to six months, resist the temptation.

Now go shoot. A lot. Every single day - and if you can't get to the range that day, just stand on a flat surface (like in your kitchen on the tiles) and hold the pistol up in position for a minute at a time (your shoulder muscles need to build up and you need to get used to it).

Everything else is tweaking really.

rrpc

Actually a very good place for anyone interested in improving their shooting whether rifle or pistol. I know it's more 'olympic' in its outlook, but it also covers NRA bullseye and anyway shooting is shooting; if you're not hitting the target, it's usually for the same reason no matter what the sport or discipline.

G17

Thanks.


Also, what's the Irish record (I'm full of the enthusiasm of ignorance)?

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Actually a very good place for anyone interested in improving their shooting whether rifle or pistol.

Yeah, and I've been on there for years, but like I said, you have to filter there as much as you have to filter here. The dross just has a different accent is all.

G17, it was north of 550/600 last I looked but I don't have the figure off the top of my head.

It wasn't me!

Think I saw a 556 recently, and that's on the up and up too. 580s here we come!

rrpc

The results for the 2009 National championships are here. The winning score was 554 by Peter Friend with a borrowed air pistol that he'd never fired before that morning. :cool:

G17

I should have the licence soon and the air pistol (cough, seals, Zaraba).
I'll shoot a match from scatch in the comfort of me own home (memo to self, don't pick up the wrong target pistol) and post the results, for a laugh; I'm expecting, oh, 550 give or take, I'm only starting out.

Sparks

G17 wrote: »

(cough, seals, Zaraba)

Yeah, that's a quirk of the Izzy. If you ever fire it with the breechblock not fully locked down, the seals will go flying to the far corners of the range. So if you get a set (and you can find them online easily), buy a second and third set at the same time and stow them in the bottom of your pistol case in case it happens in a match and you can't afford the time to go search.

Oh, and add a few other things to that case too - a knitting needle that will fit down the barrel without touching the sides (to poke out the inevitable pellet you push in backwards); ear defenders (because they're more comfy than earplugs when shooting pistol - on rifle they hit off the cheekpiece so we use plugs, but cans are better for pistol, and yes, you need them with airguns too unless you don't like hearing high frequencies well); all the various little screwdrivers and tools that came with the pistol; a small cloth (the bar cloths that you see in pubs do nicely, it gives you a clean spot on the bench to rest the pistol on); sight blackener; and if you can find one, a kneeling roll (to rest the pistol on between shots). If you got that monster case Zara had his in, you'll have enough room for all that in the one case, and still enough left over for a pair of shoes...

I'll shoot a match from scatch in the comfort of me own home

Ah yes, the five-years-in-jail-and-twenty-grand-of-fines-if-caught range...

G17

Sparks wrote: »

Ah yes, the five-years-in-jail-and-twenty-grand-of-fines-if-caught range...

That of course would be the case if the 'home' I was referring to was NOT currently under the range authorisation process with the DOJ.

On that note, is there any point shooting AP at an outdoor range or would the wind not be that much of a factor?

Sparks

G17 wrote: »

That of course would be the case if the 'home' I was referring to was NOT currently under the range authorisation process with the DOJ.

Good luck!

On that note, is there any point shooting AP at an outdoor range or would the wind not be that much of a factor?

Been tried:


It'll hit the target, it'll be surprisingly accurate (and it punches through the plywood backing even at that range), but the pellets destabilise somewhere between 10 and 20m so they go through the target backwards and don't group well, even without wind like on that day in the Midlands. If you were 10m away, and it was a still enough day, yeah, go for it. But all the international level matches are held indoors and all the airgun ranges are indoors as well. For ISSF 25m pistol, it's outdoor (there's a clause in the rules that allows for an all-indoor range where an outdoor one's not possible, and the firing point is always sheltered, but the majority of the firing lane is meant to be exposed. Wind is meant to be a factor) -- but there's a bit more oomph behind a .22lr bullet

(Actually, if you had one of the €2k compressed air FWB pistols, you might do better outdoors, as the pellet would have more oomph).

Sparks

Oh, and I completely forgot - buy air pistol pellets. R10, top of the line stuff. It'll cost you around €7 or €8 for a tin of 500, so screw trying to save two or three euro on cheaper stuff, it's not worth it. And yes, get the pistol-specific stuff. Air rifle pellets will work, and if you had a precompressed pistol, you'd never notice the difference (at least not for the first few months), but the Izzy hasn't as much puff as they do, and the few grains of weight that you save getting the pistol pellet does make a larger difference for the Izzy. The pellet moves faster, gets out of the barrel quicker, and is more stable in flight.

G17

Thanks for all the advice.

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, that's a quirk of the Izzy. If you ever fire it with the breechblock not fully locked down, the seals will go flying to the far corners of the range. So if you get a set (and you can find them online easily), buy a second and third set at the same time and stow them in the bottom of your pistol case in case it happens in a match and you can't afford the time to go search.

Oh, and add a few other things to that case too - a knitting needle that will fit down the barrel without touching the sides (to poke out the inevitable pellet you push in backwards); ear defenders (because they're more comfy than earplugs when shooting pistol - on rifle they hit off the cheekpiece so we use plugs, but cans are better for pistol, and yes, you need them with airguns too unless you don't like hearing high frequencies well); all the various little screwdrivers and tools that came with the pistol; a small cloth (the bar cloths that you see in pubs do nicely, it gives you a clean spot on the bench to rest the pistol on); sight blackener; and if you can find one, a kneeling roll (to rest the pistol on between shots). If you got that monster case Zara had his in, you'll have enough room for all that in the one case, and still enough left over for a pair of shoes...

Ah yes, the five-years-in-jail-and-twenty-grand-of-fines-if-caught range...

could they not have included an exemption in the law for 6ft/lb air pistols for people to practice at home in a garage or long hallway or a basement ? once again irish/female logic prevails :rolleyes:

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

irish/female logic prevails :rolleyes:

Irish female? I'm pretty sure Ahern's a male, whatever other descriptive term you care to apply to him!

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

Irish female? I'm pretty sure Ahern's a male, whatever other descriptive term you care to apply to him!

you sure he's not just a hideously ugly old woman ?

rrpc

As the Ranges SI hasn't been finalised, it's a bit early to be threatening people with dire consequences when it's not even clear yet whether airgun ranges will be part of the certification process or even dealt with under section 4A of the firearms act.

The requirements for an airgun range would be light enough in any case and it might be worth your while getting an authorisation (if it were necessary) for a private one as the cost would amount to only €200 per annum (€1000 over 5 years).

Beats having Sparks give you nightmares and if you practice enough it could be you giving him them.

joecoie

Hi G17. Welcome to the great (but frustrating) world of 10m AP. What type of AP are you getting?
As regards getting info- its a bit fragmented you have to gather it where you can, & as with most shooting sports there is an amount of conflicting advice.
I would recommend Targettalk, & Target shooting Canada (www.targetshooting.ca/) although it can be a bit of a pain getting reliable connection- the coaching section has an amount of good information. I have a good presentation for AP10m beginners- if you PM me your email address I can send you this. I'm out of country this week (AP training course -Bisley, & work) so may not be a bit slow responding.
Agree with Sparks- get some basics which suit you & stick to these; don't keep changing. Again not looking at the target is key as strange as it may seem- concentrate on sights esp. the foresight.
You are welcome to visit us in Fermoy when you get AP. Have to go flight boarding..
All the very best- see you at the Nationals if not before.
Joe.

Sam I Am

G17 wrote: »

That of course would be the case if the 'home' I was referring to was NOT currently under the range authorisation process with the DOJ.

I so want to do this too!
Any advice?

rrpc

Sam I Am wrote: »

I so want to do this too!
Any advice?

On which? air pistol shooting or building a range for it?

Sam I Am

Build and/or authorise a private 10m range at home, initially for Air Rifle, but I'd love to get an air pistol too

rrpc

Sam I Am wrote: »

Build and/or authorise a private 10m range at home, initially for Air Rifle, but I'd love to get an air pistol too

There'll be some guidance on that published soonish, but the basic rule is that you need to avoid backsplash (cover everything forward of the line with soft timber such as plywood) and any windows or doors in that area need to be covered or blocked.

Pellet catchers must be angled at 45 degrees or otherwise deflect or absorb shots and don't use a backsplash curtain.

That's a very rough and basic guide, but you get the idea.

Sam I Am

Super. That would be no great challenge.
Any thoughts on Planning Permission? Would a change of use be required? Or would it need to be listed when applying to build a garage? Wanting to keep private actually "private", rather than being plotted on a map online for all to see or posted on the front gate.

rrpc

Sam I Am wrote: »

Super. That would be no great challenge.
Any thoughts on Planning Permission? Would a change of use be required? Or would it need to be listed when applying to build a garage? Wanting to keep private actually "private", rather than being plotted on a map online for all to see or posted on the front gate.

OK, now we're into planning law and a whole other can of worms :eek:

If you're using your shed or garage as an occasional range for your own use, I doubt very much if it needs planning permission. It's a garage, not a range!

Its primary use is still as a garage no?

Sam I Am

Hopefully the PTB will agree!
Fingers crossed for a well thought out Ranges SI.

rrpc

Sam I Am wrote: »

Hopefully the PTB will agree!
Fingers crossed for a well thought out Ranges SI.

There are no PTB that will be involved in making that decision unless you actually apply for planning. The onus is on you to make sure you're compliant.

AFAIK, if you haven't changed the primary use of a structure then it's not required that you apply for planning.

Take somebody working from home; they don't apply for planning to turn a bedroom into an office. The house is still a residence.

However if they open a shop or creche, then it's a change of use and planning has to be applied for. Both of those will materially affect the building and the surrounding infrastructure (traffic, parking etc.).

G17

Sam I Am wrote: »

I so want to do this too!
Any advice?

Dunno yet what the basic requirements will be for air target firearms but I'd expect that it would be much cheaper to construct due to the reduced energies involved. This indoor range will supercede the requirements for AP as other target firearms will be used. It was mentioned that quite a simple set up would suffice as RRPC mentioned, but it will still likely cost you 1k for authorisation and you've still your local Super to convince after that.

Also, got my AP licence granted letter yesterday.

Sam I Am

G17 wrote: »

Dunno yet what the basic requirements will be for air target firearms but I'd expect that it would be much cheaper to construct due to the reduced energies involved. This indoor range will supercede the requirements for AP as other target firearms will be used. It was mentioned that quite a simple set up would suffice as RRPC mentioned, but it will still likely cost you 1k for authorisation and you've still your local Super to convince after that.

Also, got my AP licence granted letter yesterday.

Congrats on AP licence.
So new SI for range authorisation has yet to be finalised.
So are you using previous procedures or how are you going about it all?
I reckon the 1K is better than the infrequent opportunity to train otherwise, along with travelling time and costs. If I can't train at home, may as well sell the AR. It's been locked away for years, unused waiting for circumstances to be right at home. Be a pity to have to sell it, now that I'm in a situation to use it. If there is a way to work with the legal changes.

rrpc

Here's the MOD (UK) document on Airgun ranges which is part of JSP403 (the document that the Gardai were using to authorise ranges up until the Range Inspector took over) and which will give you some idea of the kinds of issues that you need to take account of when designing an airgun range.

G17

@Sam I Am
PM sent.