Intervals question

HardyEustace

Looking at the hal higdon training program for a 10k

When he mentions the intervals, e.g.,
6 x 400 mile pace

How much rest do you take between each 400?

Is it distance or time based?

Woddle

I think the rest can be anywhere form the lenght of time it took you to do the rep tohalf the time it took you to do the rep, start with the full time first and work your way down week by week.

ike

Its about trying to strike a balance, you don't want to be fully rested nor do you want to be starting the next rep when your HR is still near its max.

At the moment I'm doing Half miles averaging aound 3:05 with a 90secs rest and adding an extra half mile every week. Coincidently the 90 sec is about half of the interval time it seems to strike the balance (for me anyway)

ecoli

ike wrote: »

Its about trying to strike a balance, you don't want to be fully rested nor do you want to be starting the next rep when your HR is still near its max.

At the moment I'm doing Half miles averaging aound 3:05 with a 90secs rest and adding an extra half mile every week. Coincidently the 90 sec is about half of the interval time it seems to strike the balance (for me anyway)

Depends on where abouts in your training you are if it is still about getting strength to cover the distance then the emphasis should be focused on the recovery. For example when i was coming back from long stint of injury i was covering my 400m (80) s in relatively comfortable pace but i made sure that the recoveries were quite short.
However as i come closer to my goal race i will look to put a bit of speed into my legs and these will consist of faster reps with slight longer recovery (maybe sub 70 secs with min recovery).
Mile pace seems to be more focused on speed however so i would agree that initially time takes to cover the distance is sufficient and adapt it from their as you improve.
Intervals can have mulitiple purposes in a training schedule and that is why bit of reading up on the principles of training should be advised as opposed to just looking at a ready made schedule. S.W.A.T is a business term that becomes applicable in this area. By analyzing your strengths and weakness you are able to interpret where the emphasis should lie in these sort of schedules.
Main thing is regardless you should come off the track feeling tired but not flat out exhausted at the end. Also Intervals compliment your mileage they do not substitute for it end of the day mileage is the key to any good training schedule

HardyEustace

Thanks guys.

ecoli - basically treating track as a speed session. Just finished/limped around Dublin but ultimately had not put the training in and thus paid the price.

Right now, I'm taking a step back and concentrating getting faster. Thus I've the aware 10k and the athenry 10k as a short term goal. I'm sick of slogging around marathon courses so now need to concentrate on my speed. I think my strength is relatively ok, my endurance is good. I'm thinking of augmenting the 10k program with a longer run of 8-9 miles thrown in somewhere so I don't lose too much distance - if that isn't at odds with my initial goal of speed.

Woddle

Hi HE if the marathon is you goal and your considering spring Pfitzinger and Douglas and others recommend intervals of 800m to 1600 and I know a few people here are quite fond of 2k intervals. 400m intervals are not very conductive to marathon training but then again Hardworker who was quite a good marathoner swears by 400s

HardyEustace

Woddle wrote: »

Hi HE if the marathon is you goal and your considering spring Pfitzinger and Douglas and others recommend intervals of 800m to 1600 and I know a few people here are quite fond of 2k intervals. 400m intervals are not very conductive to marathon training but then again Hardworker who was quite a good marathoner swears by 400s

Hi W,
autumn marathon is my goal. Due to various constraints, not able to do a spring one so would like to concentrate on upping my time for 10k, then half marathon and then marathon next autumn. I've a lot of work to do. Was really interested in the mail by tergat on improving times so trying to take a step back from the big distances and concentrate on speed more.

tergat

HardyEustace wrote: »

Hi W,
autumn marathon is my goal. Due to various constraints, not able to do a spring one so would like to concentrate on upping my time for 10k, then half marathon and then marathon next autumn. I've a lot of work to do. Was really interested in the mail by tergat on improving times so trying to take a step back from the big distances and concentrate on speed more.

HardyEustace,

I just had a look at the Hal Higdon 10k program you posted a link to. The mile workouts are very tough for most people, they are overkill. Doing 6-8*400m @mile pace with 90 secs-3 mins jog rec is enough for most runners. Trying to do 12 will send anyone right over the edge unless you are a sub 4 minute miler. Be careful with these workouts.

If you want to improve over 5km/10km just run some easy mileage, do one long run over hills per week as well as one tempo/LT workout and one workout with 5km/10km paced reps. Progress the workouts over the weeks such as for 5km:
10-15*400m with 60 secs jog rec
7*10*600m with 75 secs jog rec
6-8*800m with 90 secs jog rec
4-6*1000m with 2 mins jog rec
4-5*1200m with 2.5 mins jog rec
2-4*1600m with 3 mins jog rec

What will happen if you do only mile pace workouts is you will find the pace easy for the 1st half of your 5km/10km race and bonk in the 2nd half. If you want to do some mile pace stuff why not do on your tempo/LT day something like this:
- 3*8-10 mins LT workout (steady state running) with 2 mins jog rec followed by 4*200m @ mile pace with 90 secs jog. This is far better for you and the longer races unless you are aiming for the mile specifically.

Tergat

Krusty_Clown

Hi there, I just found this thread and really have the same questions. I jumped into week 4 of the HalHigdon advanced 10k program (for want of another better plan), and so far have done the 9x400 and 10x400 intervals at approximately mile pace (I've never raced a mile, but did the reps at around 5:19min/mile).

I've been taking a 45 second rest between intervals, but last night felt that it wasn't enough, and had to take a sit-down (extra 30 secs) break after rep 7, but finished ok. I'm also doing a couple of 10 mile runs per week, and a tempo run of around of around 45 minutes. I pb'ed a couple of weeks ago on the back of marathon training, with a time of 38:42 (in really bad windy conditions) and would love to shave off around 43 seconds in three weeks time. Are mile-paced intervals a bad idea in this type of scenario? Should I be taking longer breaks?

My plan is to go back to marathon training (P&D) once this 10k race is over, so I'm hoping to use the 10k program (5 weeks of it anyway) to get more comfortable with more speed. Thanks!

Slogger Jogger

Its about striking that balance that works for you I suppose. I use a 60s interval myself, but its whatever works for you. You might find if you stick with the 45 secs that you'll find in a few weeks that you are much more resilient to it and last the session much better?

TheRoadRunner

Woddle wrote: »

400m intervals are not very conductive to marathon training but then again Hardworker who was quite a good marathoner swears by 400s

I think they can be very useful as well and a number of experienced club mates swear by them. They rack up to 20 of them. I've incorporated them myself previously and I think they definitely can have a benefit so long as the pace isn't too hot.

The 2k intervals are something that I haven't done enough of in the past and for my next marathon (whenever that will be :rolleyes:) I will definitely do more of them (or something similar).

Back to the original question, the recovery IMO and very roughly speaking should be short/long enough so that all reps can be done at the same pace. AT week 1 this may be 90 seconds, as the weeks go by this will obviously decrease. Personally I usually start at 70 seconds and move down to 45 seconds.

asimonov

I did a good few 2k x 5 interval sessions at 10k race pace during the summer and I thought they were really beneficial. Even psychologically it is good at the 8k mark of a 10k to know you are within an interval of the finish. I didn't do 400's though which I'll do during my next training schedule.

On the point of recovery time, is it
possible to use a HRM to get the
recovery period right? If so how would you do that?

dna_leri

asimonov wrote: »

I did a good few 2k x 5 interval sessions at 10k race pace during the summer and I thought they were really beneficial. Even psychologically it is good at the 8k mark of a 10k to know you are within an interval of the finish. I didn't do 400's though which I'll do during my next training schedule.

On the point of recovery time, is it
possible to use a HRM to get the
recovery period right? If so how would you do that?

If you are using a HRM a good guide is to recover to mid way between max HR and resting HR.

asimonov

dna_leri wrote: »

If you are using a HRM a good guide is to recover to mid way between max HR and resting HR.

Thanks DNA, I'll track this against my timed recovery to see how I get on.