308 semi auto

Hibrion

Hey all. Just curious as to the possibility of licensing a semi auto 308 here now; something like the mini thirty or the Saiga rifles and PTR 91s you see alot in the UK?
Has anyone seen any of these licensed??

Thanks.

4gun

Hibrion wrote: »

Hey all. Just curious as to the possibility of licensing a semi auto 308 here now; something like the mini thirty or the Saiga rifles and PTR 91s you see alot in the UK?
Has anyone seen any of these licensed??

Thanks.

I'sayyour chances are very good you should go and buy one :rolleyes:

clivej

If you can give 'Good reason' for wanting/use of a 308 semi-auto then you have as much chance of getting one as you would any restricted gun.

Hibrion

4gun wrote: »

I'sayyour chances are very good you should go and buy one :rolleyes:

Just curious, no need for the sarcasm.

A lot of people seem to be able to license M1 Garrands and such so why would a mini thirty be so different?

4gun

Hibrion wrote: »

Just curious, no need for the sarcasm.

A lot of people seem to be able to license M1 Garrands and such so why would a mini thirty be so different?

i'm sorry I thought you were joking when I googled and saw what you were looking to get
there is a classic rifle club that kinda covers the garand

Hibrion

Not looking to get one, was just wondering if anyone had seen any over here seen as they are quite popular in the UK.
Not every post is about a possible purchase, just a random curiousity:)

Grizzly 45

Since Hungerford,all semi rifles above.22 LR are illegal.
The "semi autos" in the UK are actually straight pull bolt actions.Simply these are semi lookalikes with no gas/recoil system,either chopped out or made like so from the manufactures.

As for purchasing one,why the Heck not if you can prove good reason.I had the pleasure and privilige of viewing and handling one of our members on boards here semi recently.And very nice it was too.:)

Cass

I would say (as clivej said) if you have/had a good reason there is no reason why you could not get a license for one.

The mini thirty is the rifle that most resembles a hunting style rifle and would cause the least amount of raised eyebrows. The Saiga and more so the PTR 91 are very similar to the L1A1 self loading rifle and would carry the label of "tactical" or "military" style so from looks alone ( and as with the SIs/guidelines that deal with folding stocks and "dangerous" looking firearms ) may be harder to justify.

Hibrion

Didn't know that about the UK Grizzly, I figured they were semi auto. I guess they don't license firearms based on how "evil" they look over there:rolleyes:.
Its interesting that the mini thirty would probably be easier to license even though they all shoot the same.

Cass

Its a pain in the ass alright. Don't want for this comment to take the thread off topic but if certain firearms are much easier to license than others (which seems to be the case) will it not create (however small) monopolies for certain manufacturers?

Grizzly 45

Oh,I dunno Ez.There are now plenty of total civillian style made semi rifles without all the evillll milspec features out there.
HK makes one,Saiga is available in a civvie woodstock version with a normal pistol grip.As is its shotgun ..Mauser:eek: one of the most hidebound trad gunmakers are making a semi rifle in some huge calibres,like 9.3X

Browning has been making the BAR[not the old machine gun] in various cals for years.As has Remington with the Woodsmaster seris.ALL without any tactical or military looks,or even Hi cap mags.
It looks like some makers are now waking up to the fact that technology has moved on abit and that there is a demand out there for semis with or without military features.Still the most pouplar selling type of gun in Germany for three years running, any type of semi auto rifle.

4gun

Hibrion wrote: »

Not looking to get one, was just wondering if anyone had seen any over here seen as they are quite popular in the UK.
Not every post is about a possible purchase, just a random curiousity:)

again my apologies, i stand corrected

Hibrion

Suppose it would. Maybe there's a standard payoff to get on the new approved pistol list:D.

Hibrion

4gun wrote: »

again my apologies, i stand corrected

no worries

4gun

also the new S.I 's say that you won't get a firearm thats restricted if there is a non restricted that will do the job so that would probably rule out any center fire simi

Grizzly 45

Hibrion wrote: »

Didn't know that about the UK Grizzly, I figured they were semi auto. I guess they don't license firearms based on how "evil" they look over there:rolleyes:.
Its interesting that the mini thirty would probably be easier to license even though they all shoot the same.

Ah! But they did!!The reason semi rifles were banned was because of Hungerford.And this seems to be the paranoia about these type of guns and handguns.Ban or restrict them and potential massacres wont happen.:rolleyes: God help us and the authorithy if anyone ever loses their rag,and gets up in a high rise with a bog std hunting rifle,and actually knows how to use it.:eek:

Grizzly 45

4gun wrote: »

also the new S.I 's say that you won't get a firearm thats restricted if there is a non restricted that will do the job so that would probably rule out any center fire simi

Not quite there are plenty of good reasons for a semi.

Hibrion

But Grizzly, the 308 bullet from a tacticool, evil, black, semi auto is much more dangerous than a bolt action:rolleyes: and only truly psychotic people would want anything other than a walnut stock:D

Cass

Fair point Grizzly. I had a similar "discussion" with a lad a few weeks ago. He insisted that i had no chance of getting my license back for my TRG. Said the Gardai would not license a "military" style rifle. He told me i would have to get a different style rifle. My response was " i'm free to choose any rifle i want. I picked a Sako, and for target work in .308 calibre Sako do the TRG. So ring Sako tell them that they have to change the style of their rifles".

The point i wanted to get across to him was if i granted a license on a .308, bolt action rifle what difference does it make how the stock looks. I've no control over that and for anyone to push a particular make of rifle over another would lead to a monopoly.

Kinda explained that a**e about face but i hope you get the idea behind my ramblings.

Grizzly 45

Guess somone should have told Charles Whitman that in 1966 on the Texas tower.:rolleyes: He used a 3006 Garand,commonly availabe in Walnut.;)

Hibrion

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Guess somone should have told Charles Whitman that in 1966 on the Texas tower.:rolleyes: He used a 3006 Garand,commonly availabe in Walnut.;)

My point exactly!

Cass

Its not the gun, its the "nut behind the butt". Always has been always will be.

Hibrion

ezridax wrote: »

Its not the gun, its the "nut behind the butt". Always has been always will be.

Very true, it would have been great if the new licensing system licensed the individual rather than each firearm.

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not quite there are plenty of good reasons for a semi.

Would you like to elaborate and explain what they are say over a bolt action ?

Grizzly 45

I'd give you acouple BS.But there is no point in giving all and sundry ideas on how to counter good reason applications.
The enemy reads here as well.So sorry if I dont want to give them free advice anymore.:)

Does anyone buy the reason OMOL idea wasnt pushed because of new EU legislation???
I dont ,considering it would require the EU to adapt an Irish style liscense system of each gun being individually liscensed.I]I]Ala carte[I[/I EU membership again!

murph226

Seen one of these in 308 at a range a few weeks ago, the owner uses it for driven boar hunts in Poland!

His FO told him its not restricted:eek:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/benelli_r1_rifles.html

Cass

murph226 wrote: »

His FO told him its not restricted

Get me his area, i'm moving there and putting in for one of these

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not quite there are plenty of good reasons for a semi.

can you give some please

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

4gun wrote: »

I'sayyour chances are very good you should go and buy one :rolleyes:

What kind of bullsh!t post is that? Really?

OP, I know my super wouldn't grant it. I would barely get a .22 semi.

I was pretty sure that .22 was the highest calibre you could get in semi auto? Is this an old rule or was it ever there in the first place?

Bananaman

4gun - I question your motives.

B'Man

dwighet

If there granting licences for 223 semi"black guns"...Why not a 243/7mm08/308.....
Theres a good few rem r-15s in 223 getting around.if the wholesalers can import them whats to stop the r-15`s big brother the r-25 coming in?

rrpc

murph226 wrote: »

Seen one of these in 308 at a range a few weeks ago, the owner uses it for driven boar hunts in Poland!

His FO told him its not restricted:eek:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/benelli_r1_rifles.html

Whether a firearm is declared restricted or not is primarily the responsibility of the applicant. Anyone who would take the word of a Garda (who isn't going to carry the can if he's wrong) when the legislation is as clear as day needs to re-evaluate their position as a responsible firearms owner.

All semi-auto rifles above .22 calibre are restricted. People here should know better

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Does anyone buy the reason OMOL idea wasnt pushed because of new EU legislation???
I dont ,considering it would require the EU to adapt an Irish style liscense system of each gun being individually liscensed.I]I]Ala carte[I[/I EU membership again!

Whoever told you that Grizzly, was talking through an orifice not normally associated with speech.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why one person one licence wasn't a runner; a quick look at the new licences would tell you that :rolleyes:

PULSE is not able for it, it can barely cope with the new licence.

And why would our licence have any affect on the rest of the EU? Firearms licensing is one of the areas that the EU don't interfere in a member state's affairs other than where it intersects with the rest of the EU such as with the EFP or imports and exports.

4gun

Markus Repulsive Snooper wrote: »

What kind of bullsh!t post is that? Really?

OP, I know my super wouldn't grant it. I would barely get a .22 semi.

I was pretty sure that .22 was the highest calibre you could get in semi auto? Is this an old rule or was it ever there in the first place?

It's often refered to the "lowest form of wit"

Bananaman wrote: »

4gun - I question your motives.

B'Man

world domination

meathstevie

4gun wrote: »

also the new S.I 's say that you won't get a firearm thats restricted if there is a non restricted that will do the job so that would probably rule out any center fire simi

Unless the rumoured wild boar population explodes and we start to have driven shoots that is

Grizzly 45

[

quote=rrpc;62821088]Whoever told you that Grizzly, was talking through an orifice not normally associated with speech.

100%Right about that RRPC it was in a DOJ/FCP statement.If I remember correctly,actually it is here somwhere posted on the boards.:D:D

It doesn't take ato figur genius e out why one person one licence wasn't a runner; a quick look at the new licences would tell you that :rolleyes:

Right again, the rule of the seven P's come to mind.

PULSE is not able for it, it can barely cope with the new licence.

And why would our licence have any affect on the rest of the EU? Firearms licensing is one of the areas that the EU don't interfere in a member state's affairs other than where it intersects with the rest of the EU such as with the EFP or imports and exports.

Because RR,the EU [and UN ]in their drive to make the World 100% safe want to introduce a liscensing system for all small arms that would accompany it from manufacture to destruction.AND that it would have to be reviewed every year,yo make sure it hasnt been aquired for illegal purposes and sold off to 3rd world countries so kid soilders can massacre villages out in Bongo or Borat land somwhere. Laudable aim.Laughable in reality.But then Reality of the real world has obviously never been a concern in Brussles has it?? Ergo our lot used this BS as an excuse to not bother introducing OMOL as well with the attitude"Ah shure the EU whom we must all obey[when it suits us] is going to go for this,so why bother changing our system Too much???"
We really should pay more attention to Brussles nowadays.There will be plenty more shte coming down that pipe soon for us.:(:(

Grizzly 45

4gun wrote: »

can you give some please

I'd give you acouple BS.But there is no point in giving all and sundry ideas on how to counter good reason applications.
The enemy reads here as well.So sorry if I dont want to give them free advice anymore.

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

100%Right about that RRPC it was in a DOJ/FCP statement.If I remember correctly,actually it is here somwhere posted on the boards.:D:D

I think you'll find your recollection is faulty.

Because RR,the EU [and UN ]in their drive to make the World 100% safe want to introduce a liscensing system for all small arms that would accompany it from manufacture to destruction.AND that it would have to be reviewed every year,yo make sure it hasnt been aquired for illegal purposes and sold off to 3rd world countries so kid soilders can massacre villages out in Bongo or Borat land somwhere. Laudable aim.Laughable in reality.But then Reality of the real world has obviously never been a concern in Brussles has it?? Ergo our lot used this BS as an excuse to not bother introducing OMOL as well with the attitude"Ah shure the EU whom we must all obey[when it suits us] is going to go for this,so why bother changing our system Too much???"
We really should pay more attention to Brussles nowadays.There will be plenty more shte coming down that pipe soon for us.:(:(

That's not a licensing system, it's a traceability system and is based on the serial number of the firearm. The only interface to our licensing system is by reason of serial numbers being recorded on our licences.

Not the same thing at all.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

I think you'll find your recollection is faulty.

Erm, actually rrpc, I remember that coming out from the DoJ at one point myself. Not sure if it ever came out in an official statement though.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Erm, actually rrpc, I remember that coming out from the DoJ at one point myself. Not sure if it ever came out in an official statement though.

Well I certainly don't. The official reason was that PULSE wasn't up to the task and that's pretty obvious.

There may have been some talk that the system would be revisited when the new directive on recording of serial numbers was to be adopted but that's hardly the same as saying the EU directive was stopping the introduction of single person licensing.

Grizzly 45

Uh huh!RR and the reason they were talking about an annual liscense was,because once you have a firearm in Europe you have it for life,and it is your property.As you do your liscense.You have done the tests,exams etc.Thats it you are competant to own any type of gun in the class of your liscense.
So say ,if you wanted to flog yours to another individual,the onus is on the PURCHASER to inform the authorthies that he bought the gun of Mr Grizzly.All Grizzly has to do is go to his town council and say,I sold this gun to a Mr RRPC of Xville,Germany.Grand says the council and marks Grizzlys gun as sold.,and puts a bunch of dashes thru his liscense and date stamps it.
Now wether Mr RR goes and registers it or claims to flog it off to somone else,who uses it for somthing dodgy is where the problem starts.It is virtually unknown for police to pitch up at your door wanting to inspect your guns.It is done on a security of safe category.
1to 2 guns.Tin boxes like what we have here.8plus.Bank vault style safe,or strongroom.
So what was happening were strawman purchases,and this got the brains of Brussles thinking that some sort of inspection and traceability of legally held firearms would be a good idea,after all that way the kiddies in Africa will be saved by not getting access to hunting rifles or shotguns form Europe.The few million Aks down there?Ah..welll nothing can be done about that now!
So who has got an annual renewal or some type of renewal system for their permits in the EU??Of course the UK and Ireland!!And they dont have any gun crime at all due to their tough laws on gun ownership!!So lets look at them as paragons of gun free societies..:rolleyes:
Be incredlious and dismissive if you want,but that and some more loonier ideas do come from brussles with this kind of thought process.

Am looking for that statement.I am sure it was posted in some discussion or quote system here over the last 12 days.As otherwise I wouldnt have mentioned it.
After reading Sparks and your replies
Didnt say it was stopping it.I said it wouldnt be adapted due to the fact that in probability the EU would demand achange in the system EU wide,and our lot boxed clever [for once???] in saying then there is no point in wasting a load of money again in acouple of years having to re install a system we more or less have already,and just needs tweaking to EU demands,so we'll keep the shooters happy by going to three years rather than five in case this does become law.Thats the way I read it,and does explain some of the "odd" info requirements on the new forms.They dont make sense in an Irish context,but in an EU context they certainly do.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Well I certainly don't. The official reason was that PULSE wasn't up to the task and that's pretty obvious.

Found what I was remembering - it was said at the FCP conference in Mullingar:

Sparks wrote:

The One Man One Licence topic arose again, and again the response was that it looks logical (though apparently some EU states prefer our system) but we're bound by the '06 act and must finish implementing that before we could move on to OMOL. There are also serious IT difficulties (PULSE can't do OMOL right now it seems).

Times may have changed since then, or DoJ folks might have changed their mind, but at the time, "PULSE can't do it" wasn't the official reason (being bound by Irish legislation was), and there was serious emphasis put on how the other EU states just loved our system and wanted to use it instead.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So what was happening were strawman purchases,and this got the brains of Brussles thinking that some sort of inspection and traceability of legally held firearms would be a good idea,after all that way the kiddies in Africa will be saved by not getting access to hunting rifles or shotguns form Europe.The few million Aks down there?Ah..welll nothing can be done about that now!

That's not quite what happened Grizzly, unless we're calling the H&K MP5 a hunting rifle.
The problem was with arms dealers bypassing EU and UN trade restrictions and outright blockades through fairly hinky practices like shipping parts around the place, relabelling stuff and redirecting shipments and so on.
The small arms tracking stuff the EU's brought in in the last few years is all specifically aimed at the few million AKs (and MP5s and G36s and so forth), and hunting and sporting firearms are specifically exempted in the directives. In fact the directives are really clear - they see the europass (which is an entitlement for all licence holders) as being the sole document needed to travel in the EU with your firearm, and they have whole classes of firearms that need no licence and a whole class in there doesn't even need registration. In terms of firearms law, the EU is far more shooter-friendly than its member states are...

CJhaughey

Sparks wrote: »

T In terms of firearms law, the EU is far more shooter-friendly than its member states are...

Which is handy but the Member states firearms law overrides the EU legislation.:rolleyes:

Sparks

CJhaughey wrote: »

Which is handy but the Member states firearms law overrides the EU legislation.:rolleyes:

I know

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

That's not quite what happened Grizzly, unless we're calling the H&K MP5 a hunting rifle

.

Errrr.Yes it is in Germany Sparks,so long as it is a SEMI AUTO!!With a3 shot magazine.They are called nachsuche gewher [TRANS ] tracking gun.
This is used for coup de grace shots on injured game,and is preferred by some hunters rather than a pistol... A glance on Egun will show what can be used as tracking guns.Everything from repro Shmeissers and Thompsons to Chopped HK G3 308 rifles. Unfortuneatly those kind of guns are falling outside this arms trafficking remit,as they are classfiied as "weapons of war" with no sporting purpose.That big definition again worldwide.

The problem was with arms dealers bypassing EU and UN trade restrictions and outright blockades through fairly hinky practices like shipping parts around the place, relabelling stuff and redirecting shipments and so on.
The small arms tracking stuff the EU's brought in in the last few years is all specifically aimed at the few million AKs (and MP5s and G36s and so forth),

Which is std gunrunning practises for decades,and has gone or had and still has quite a few blind eyes turned to it by various EU member states [When suits of course].Be as it may gunrunners rarely ,ever deal in sporting firearms or semi rifles.Logically why would they bother,when they can hop over to Kaliningrad [The current arms,drugs,and prostitution Mecca close to Europe] and buy a few crates ofbrand new Aks and proably a dozen sate of the art T72 s,freshly nicked out of Ivans barracks this morning??They will ship it for a fee anywhere to the Worlds troublespots from Kgrad.Without ever touching EU terrority,by rights this is more EU "feelgood" legislation which does nothing to slow down the intl arms trafficking.

and hunting and sporting firearms are specifically exempted in the directives. In fact the directives are really clear -

See my point above about Sporting firearms.The definition is very open to wide interpertation as to what EU wide is a sporting firearm

they see the europass (which is an entitlement for all licence holders) as being the sole document needed to travel in the EU with your firearm, and they have whole classes of firearms that need no licence and a whole class in there doesn't even need registration. In terms of firearms law, the EU is far more shooter-friendly than its member states are...

In Theory....sofar it still doesnt work like that especially here or the UK.

PJ Hunter

CJhaughey wrote: »

Which is handy but the Member states firearms law overrides the EU legislation.:rolleyes:

everyones should be entitled to equal treatment.:rolleyes: was it about following up on the united nations lead and the proliferation of small arms in wars, and not much to do with the bothering eu hunters and target shooters. ireland / united states:eek:

quote
According to the “Small Arms Survey,” a Geneva-based non-governmental organisation, the average number of firearms per 100 people is 46 in Finland, 36 in Cyprus, and 32 in Sweden. These are often used for hunting. In contrast it’s 9 in Estonia and Ireland, 3 in the Netherlands and 1 in Poland.
In the "United States" the figure is 90 guns per 100 people.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL2834893820070828

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.....Errrr.Yes it is in Germany.....

And we wonder why they compare here to US :rolleyes:

And as you refuse to post reason/s for a s/a 308 being more suitable than a b/a I presume you don't have any reasonable ones

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Errrr.Yes it is in Germany Sparks,so long as it is a SEMI AUTO!!With a3 shot magazine.They are called nachsuche gewher [TRANS ] tracking gun.

You know, even I have trouble faulting the Powers That Be for looking at an MP5 and thinking it's not really a hunting or sporting firearm.

Which is std gunrunning practises for decades,and has gone or had and still has quite a few blind eyes turned to it by various EU member states

Hence the push from the EU to not turn a blind eye to it...

this is more EU "feelgood" legislation which does nothing to slow down the intl arms trafficking.

Well, it does - just not outside the EU.
But feck it, you have to start somewhere.

See my point above about Sporting firearms.The definition is very open to wide interpertation as to what EU wide is a sporting firearm

Not so much really, as they were careful with their definitions.

In Theory....sofar it still doesnt work like that especially here or the UK.

Again, you're mixing up the EU and its member states. The way the europass is treated here and in the UK is akin to how we still have VRT and do other things that break EU directives.

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

And as you refuse to post reason/s for a s/a 308 being more suitable than a b/a I presume you don't have any reasonable ones

Can't shoot in a VCRAI-style Garand match without a Garand...

It wasn't me!

For driven hunting abroad, a semi-auto would be ideal. I'll take a Sauer 303 in .338 Win Mag for boar, please.