Romas

Stephentlig

I just wish to express my disgust for the attitude of the town towards the Romanian people.
Just the other night I was out on my stag night in amber with a few friends, it was halloween night.

At the end of the night there were two romanian women outside selling roses. I could'nt help but feel sorry for these women, standing in the pouring rain with no head covering and they were just drenched. one old woman and one young girl selling roses. apparently people tell me its the men who send them out begging and selling roses, if this wasnt bad enough, I bought a rose and gave her a hug, and people started shouting abuse at them and proceeded to ask why I would even consider giving ''one of those tings'' ( as they put it ) a hug?

These people are human beings, when are we gonna wake up and realise our hatred? I wouldnt claim myself to be the most virtuous person in the world but I do request that we sit down and the take time to reconsider our horrible behaviour and realise that there is a line that we shouldnt cross.

God bless
Stephen.

Stark

Did you still have your wallet after hugging her?

Morlar

I have personally seen flower selling romanians basically 'rolling drunks' in dublin's temple bar, pressing/holding v drunk lads against a wall while in a swarm rifling their pockets. You will get no sympathy out of me for roma in Ireland whatsoever.

ToniTuddle

Shouting abuse and such things of course should not be tolerated.
Here in Donegal there was a recent article in the paper about a few Romanian women who have been told by the courts to stop selling roses but they repeatedly ignored the law. They are on their final warning and will serve get a prison sentence if they break the law again.
These same Romanian women are all getting dole. It's not like they are starving to death.
Life is tough I get that esp during this recession. They have been here for years now and could easily get jobs. Or at least start the process such as do night classes or some type of course! I'm friends with plenty people from various countries and they all do it the hard way.

The only problem I ever had with a Romanian was seeing him out everyday begging for money, then sitting happy as Larry in the local gambling place( I was in playing pool with some friends) using the money kind people had given him. Now that pissed me off.
I do feel bad for them if they are in genuine hardship but alot simply beg as it's what they have always done/been taught to do by adults etc.

Nobody should be begging. There are resources out there, maybe not the best resources but there is other ways than begging!
This post may be a bit all over the place....I'm currently in class and half paying attention to the lecturer:eek:

mack81

My sister got surrounded by these lovely people selling roses and low and behold a phone purse and camera go missing.

I also cant show any sympathy for them but I wouldnt hurl abuse at them. Brings me down to that level.

Fiend-Foe

I was walking down Abbey St (Dublin) and one of them stuck her hand in my coat pocket as she walked past. The pocket was empty and I caught her wrist and pulled her hand away. The old hag just smiled at me with a mouth full of gold teeth, felt like knocking them out for her.

Stephentlig

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Shouting abuse and such things of course should not be tolerated.
Here in Donegal there was a recent article in the paper about a few Romanian women who have been told by the courts to stop selling roses but they repeatedly ignored the law. They are on their final warning and will serve get a prison sentence if they break the law again.
These same Romanian women are all getting dole. It's not like they are starving to death.
Life is tough I get that esp during this recession. They have been here for years now and could easily get jobs. Or at least start the process such as do night classes or some type of course! I'm friends with plenty people from various countries and they all do it the hard way.

The only problem I ever had with a Romanian was seeing him out everyday begging for money, then sitting happy as Larry in the local gambling place( I was in playing pool with some friends) using the money kind people had given him. Now that pissed me off.
I do feel bad for them if they are in genuine hardship but alot simply beg as it's what they have always done/been taught to do by adults etc.

Nobody should be begging. There are resources out there, maybe not the best resources but there is other ways than begging!
This post may be a bit all over the place....I'm currently in class and half paying attention to the lecturer:eek:

Thank you toni for that informative post. there are Irish people professionally begging and claiming dole too and have the same problems with gambling it as you mentioned above so we must not target just the romanians for that one.
I'm not asking us to recognise their crimes, we can report such crimes no problem. I only request that we go about it a different way, instead of throwing stuff at them and giving them abuse, whether it be verbal or physical.

Thanks again
Stephen

ToniTuddle

The majority of Slovakians I know warned me to be wary of Roma people. They should know!
While alot of them are grand, we can't ignore the fact that a large majority of them do rob people blind!

My cousin was sitting outside in a cafe in Italy with his mother and one came up asking for money. My cousin had just popped his phone down. They gave him some and he legged it.....which they thought was odd. Until my cousin realised his phone was gone. They reported it to police and actually managed to track him down...but phone was long gone by then passed on to whoever so no charges could be thrown at him.

As for those Roma girls putting drunk people up against walls and feeling them up to rob them:eek:...I definitely have not seen that carry on up here

Cosmin_87

I am very glad when I see that you realize the difference between the Romanians and Gypsys.
Gypsies are living in many European countries. In Romania, if I remember correctly, there are about 2 million Gypsies. They are from India, Pakistan,etc., there goes their origins and history.
They aren'n doing bad things only in Ireland but also in Romania, Italy and other countries.
In Romania, when they are caught by police they say that they are Gypsies, and when they are caught by police in other countries, like Ireland, they say that they are Romanians.
They are very bad people, with a strange mentality, they don't want an honest life, only to steal and to deceive others.
They are spread all over Europe, practicing begging and other ****, but trust me that here in Romania they have the most expensive cars and houses..
Romanians are honest and modest people who know to say thanks to those who give them a helping hand.
There are many honest Romanians working in Ireland, they have built so many buildings, even to the new stadium have worked many romanians. Gypsies can not do the same? They prefer to put their wives and children begging and sell flowers and that's better for them, hm?
Finally please do not confuse Romanian people with Gypsies.

Morlar

Cosmin_87 wrote: »

I am very glad when I see that you realize the difference between the Romanians and Gypsys.
Gypsies are living in many European countries. In Romania, if I remember correctly, there are about 2 million Gypsies. They are from India, Pakistan,etc., there goes their origins and history.
They aren'n doing bad things only in Ireland but also in Romania, Italy and other countries.
In Romania, when they are caught by police they say that they are Gypsies, and when they are caught by police in other countries, like Ireland, they say that they are Romanians.
They are very bad people, with a strange mentality, they don't want an honest life, only to steal and to deceive others.
They are spread all over Europe, practicing begging and other ****, but trust me that here in Romania they have the most expensive cars and houses..
Romanians are honest and modest people who know to say thanks to those who give them a helping hand.
There are many honest Romanians working in Ireland, they have built so many buildings, even to the new stadium have worked many romanians. Gypsies can not do the same? They prefer to put their wives and children begging and sell flowers and that's better for them, hm?
Finally please do not confuse Romanian people with Gypsies.

You are completely right of course. Sorry if I said Romanian earlier on - I meant to say Roma.

scudzilla

Cosmin_87 wrote: »

I am very glad when I see that you realize the difference between the Romanians and Gypsys.
Gypsies are living in many European countries. In Romania, if I remember correctly, there are about 2 million Gypsies. They are from India, Pakistan,etc., there goes their origins and history.
They aren'n doing bad things only in Ireland but also in Romania, Italy and other countries.
In Romania, when they are caught by police they say that they are Gypsies, and when they are caught by police in other countries, like Ireland, they say that they are Romanians.
They are very bad people, with a strange mentality, they don't want an honest life, only to steal and to deceive others.
They are spread all over Europe, practicing begging and other ****, but trust me that here in Romania they have the most expensive cars and houses..
Romanians are honest and modest people who know to say thanks to those who give them a helping hand.
There are many honest Romanians working in Ireland, they have built so many buildings, even to the new stadium have worked many romanians. Gypsies can not do the same? They prefer to put their wives and children begging and sell flowers and that's better for them, hm?
Finally please do not confuse Romanian people with Gypsies.

I have worked with 3 Romanian guys here and i consider them my friends, they do not know each other as it was in 2 separate jobs, but each of them told me exactly the same story as you have.

calex71

There is a BIG difference between Roma and Romanian, sure the people you see selling flowers could be from Albania or Bulgaria or Macadonia etc etc

In London it's easy to tell who's who in terms of gypsies , over ground - romanian, in the tube - bulgarian.

If an average Joe romanian walked past you on the street , you would either not notice or if asked say they where polish or something !!!!

If you feel sorry for the Roma's here you should see how they get treated at home (I speak from having spent time in eastern EU - not just there for a holiday) They don't bother me , but I learned a few choice words to get rid of them should the need arise.

I would count the romanian's among the most pleasant folks there are.

Kalashnikov_Kid

From my time working in retail in the Castletown area of Dundalk in the past, I have experienced far more trouble and abuse from our very own settled Travellers and ex-con heroin addicts. But it was the Roma family that got literally burnt out of their homes in the area. They're no angels for sure, but they are certainly not the worst group out there.

Cosmin_87

In 2007 I was in Dublin looking for a job. Unfortunately, every time when the employer asked me where I am from, and I answer from Romania, 90% of employers said: ohh no f ucking Romania. And that's because of that we are associated with Gypsies. Because of the Gypsies, we Romanians, are seen quite poorly in many countries. Like you Irish, we tired of these people without scruples.
Many Irish were in Romania visit, they saw the beauties of this country but not least kindness, hospitality and good sense of the Romanian people.
All the best from Romania!
PS: Sorry for my english:)

PDN

Cosmin_87 wrote: »

They are spread all over Europe, practicing begging and other ****, but trust me that here in Romania they have the most expensive cars and houses..

I don't trust you, because what you are saying does not square with what I've seen. I have visited Romania, and I have visited Roma people in their homes - and they were the most poverty stricken, squalid hovels I have ever seen anywhere.

I also work extensively here in Ireland with both Romanians and Roma - I am personal friends with hundreds of people from both communities.

Most Romanians I know are hard-working people, but many of them do tend to be pretty racist when it comes to the Roma.

Many of the Roma are no angels. As with many marginalised communities (such as our own travellers, or blacks in some parts of the US) they are much more likely to be involved in anti-social behaviour - including begging and stealing. I also know a number of Roma who have jobs, have strong religious convictions, and whom I would trust more than I would trust many Irish people.

It bugs me when I see Roma begging in the street and then gambling that money. It also bugs me when I see Irish people begging in the street while wearing brand-name trainers that I could not afford to buy.

Auvers

calex71 wrote: »

They don't bother me , but I learned a few choice words to get rid of them should the need arise.

any chance you would post these phrases

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Back to the OP's point!

I agree that abuse is uncalled for but I have to say I give them the cold shoulder as I don't trust them at all (from past experience). The overall attitude of people in town is on balance justified by the behaviour of the Roma themselves. They do themselves no favours with the level of crime assocoated with them and the constant begging. Other nationalities make do with Welfare payments (some even work!!). You won't find the same level of unease with other nationalities in town.

Cosmin_87

PDN wrote: »

I don't trust you, because what you are saying does not square with what I've seen. I have visited Romania, and I have visited Roma people in their homes - and they were the most poverty stricken, squalid hovels I have ever seen anywhere.

I also work extensively here in Ireland with both Romanians and Roma - I am personal friends with hundreds of people from both communities.

Most Romanians I know are hard-working people, but many of them do tend to be pretty racist when it comes to the Roma.

Many of the Roma are no angels. As with many marginalised communities (such as our own travellers, or blacks in some parts of the US) they are much more likely to be involved in anti-social behaviour - including begging and stealing. I also know a number of Roma who have jobs, have strong religious convictions, and whom I would trust more than I would trust many Irish people.

It bugs me when I see Roma begging in the street and then gambling that money. It also bugs me when I see Irish people begging in the street while wearing brand-name trainers that I could not afford to buy.

Of course not all Gypsies in Romania are rich. I said they are among those who have the most expensive houses and cars.
Do you know why are we romanians so "rasists" on gypsis? Because they have made our country and people ashamed everywhere in Europe. Because here in Romania 80% of them dealing with theft,prostitution,human trafficking, robbery, fraud and, attention, most of them dealing with moneylenders. Many people here in Romania has suffered because of them. There are indeed exceptions, but in this case are very rare exceptions.

ToniTuddle

PDN wrote: »

I don't trust you....
As with many marginalised communities (such as our own travellers, or blacks in some parts of the US).

The trust comment....bit harsh!
Some of the Roma you met out there may have been in severe poverty, but I would bet anything that there are plenty Roma who are a wealthy.
Same as here with our own Travellers. Some are indeed in poverty but there are a hell of alot that are basically loaded!

You may have worked there but maybe you haven't been where Cosmin lives.
Most marginalised communities (blacks in US, Maori in NZ etc) do have alot of bother with the law and abiding by plain and simple laws...but we can't ignore the fact that we help this continue. Governments have put down these communities for decades and as a result the public believe all the bad things they see and hear.
When I was living in NZ I was personally shocked at how the Maori people are looked upon.
Change is needed. The public are simply lazy when it comes to change...and they plain don't want it!!:mad:
Someday we will learn..... *crosses fingers!*

Whiskey Devil

Stephentlig wrote: »

I just wish to express my disgust for the attitude of the town towards the Romanian people.
Just the other night I was out on my stag night in amber with a few friends, it was halloween night.

At the end of the night there were two romanian women outside selling roses. I could'nt help but feel sorry for these women, standing in the pouring rain with no head covering and they were just drenched. one old woman and one young girl selling roses. apparently people tell me its the men who send them out begging and selling roses, if this wasnt bad enough, I bought a rose and gave her a hug, and people started shouting abuse at them and proceeded to ask why I would even consider giving ''one of those tings'' ( as they put it ) a hug?

These people are human beings, when are we gonna wake up and realise our hatred? I wouldnt claim myself to be the most virtuous person in the world but I do request that we sit down and the take time to reconsider our horrible behaviour and realise that there is a line that we shouldnt cross.

God bless
Stephen.

I had a similar experience in Dublin recently. I basically had to stop two guys (about 18/19 and drunk) from hitting a young woman outside a pub because she was a Roma gypsy. Their constant begging and abuse of young children should not be condoned, but this kind of reaction is completely unacceptable. I don't think giving them money helps the situation. It just encourages professional begging among Romas, Irish and other nationalities.

'Sad to see people wasting their lives sitting on street corners when genuine people trying to make a better life for themselves are being sent back home.

calex71

PDN wrote: »

many of them do tend to be pretty racist when it comes to the Roma.

Have to say I agree 100% with you here, I haven't been to romania but I have been to areas close by, and it's the same thing in those places regards the Roma. They are a minor issue over here compared to other parts of the world in terms of the bad element within their community.

I ask my self though, do we think any differently about or own travellers?

I would not have too much sympathy for the romas. The kids are brought up to beg and they earn more than a lot of us do in a week while working. A number of romas near where I work walk around on crutches with horrible limps but at the end of the day they get picked up and walk in unaided to these cars. The problems will continually exist with the romas while people keep giving them money.

eth0_

I've only been back living in Drogheda a week and in that time alone i've seen a Roma "mother" feed her child into the charity clothing bins in Wheaton Hall to thieve, and also saw one Roman woman steal back a rose she had just sold to a guy in the pub.

Nice people.

focus_mad

I haven't experienced them in Dundalk yet but around the time they were camping at the Ballymun m50 roundabout me car broke down on the slip road and had to push it up the slip road, 5 a them come out of the bushes and started asking for money... the cheek!!!!!:mad:

Rosemary007

Hello everyone,
I just have one request. Please do not put Romanian people in the same boat with the Roma/Gypsy people. I am from Transylvania and we really resent this association with them. we are always mentioned on the same page with them even if we are Hungarian minority or any other minority for a change. They have a different culture and mentality. Please respect us as we are.
I've been married for 2 years now with an Irish man, I'll be proud to be a future citizen of this wonderful country we call Ireland. My husband loves Translvanian people and he also resents any association on this matter.
Thank you.

Stephentlig

Rosemary007 wrote: »

Hello everyone,
I just have one request. Please do not put Romanian people in the same boat with the Roma/Gypsy people. I am from Transylvania and we really resent this association with them. we are always mentioned on the same page with them even if we are Hungarian minority or any other minority for a change. They have a different culture and mentality. Please respect us as we are.
I've been married for 2 years now with an Irish man, I'll be proud to be a future citizen of this wonderful country we call Ireland. My husband loves Translvanian people and he also resents any association on this matter.
Thank you.

Love knows no boundries and Love can love even the person with the worst conduct in the world. the blood that is in me is the blood that is in you, and the blood that is in you is the blood that is in those beggars.

I consider those beggars my brothers and sisters, however I rebuke their behaviour and feel its important not to stereotype them all, as not all harbour such poor manners, and even at that I've got to work at bettering my own.

On an even happier note, I'm glad your looking forward to becoming a citizen of Ireland, I wish you all the best of sucess with your new life here in Ireland with your Irish husband.:)

Bigdeadlydave

Those particular people selling roses rob people who are really drunk.

TravelJunkie

I agree with OP that swearing and physically beating people is wrong. The type of people who do this aren't only doing it to Romas.

I was talking to someone who sells issue mag and who knows everyone from the streets and they told me that the Romas beat up other people that take one of their 'spots'. They 'own' certain areas and streets out of intimidation.
They are thieves, too. Just ask any Garda.

In my opinion the best thing to do if you dislike the behaviour of Romas is not give them money. As sorry as I feel for the women with babies on the street, it's not them that are getting their money. They are followed by the men. They are being watched all the time. Perhaps, if no one gave them money, they would move on.

I have also seen the women being picked up with fancy cars (Ok not BMWs or anything like that but a 2 year old Yaris is out of my bracket for sure). But I haven't been to any of their settlements like PDn.

In any case, I struggle emotionally every time I see gypsies begging. My natural reaction is to feel sorry for them and give them something, but I am determined not to do that. They hurt other people, and they shouldn't be encouraged.

As for Roma being confused with Romanians, I think this is to do with the media. It's the media who are always reporting Romas as Romanians. They're the ones that need to be educated.