'Critical Mass' or critically few?

Ben Ruddy

I went along to the Dublin Critical Mass last night (October 30th), and was surprised by how few people turned up. Many Dublin drivers give very little respect to cyclists and Critical Mass is a means to assert our place (being cyclists) as road users too.

With fewer than 20 people we still managed to have a good time and 'reclaim the streets'... or at least a small part of the streets. And that is the point. Cyclists (and skateboarders etc.) need to demand respect. Two cyclists in as many months have died on the streets of Dublin. How many more need to go under the wheels of trucks before we will come out in real numbers and protest? Is a one hour cycle at the end of every month too much to ask?

If twenty people can make a difference, twenty one can make more. Maybe you should be the next person to join in? It's more than been good for your health, it's good for your head and the environment too.

Next meeting:
Friday November 27th 2009
Start Time: 05:45 PM
Venue: Grafton Street Entrance to St.Stephen's Green

penexpers

I don't agree that blocking the streets is a way to gain respect from road users, hence you will never find me at a critical mass meeting.

emty

A tad condescending,no?

Btw,am talking about the op not penexpers

DirkVoodoo

I never even knew it was on.

Caroline_ie

i don't believe in critical 'messes'...

Gavin

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

I went along to the Dublin Critical Mass last night (October 30th), and was surprised by how few people turned up. Many Dublin drivers give very little respect to cyclists and Critical Mass is a means to assert our place (being cyclists) as road users too.

I have to disagree with this. The vast majority of motorists I encounter cycling through Dublin are actually quite courteous. I indicate out and get given the space I need. I might bump into two or three idiots a week. That's not a lot given the amount I interact with.

With fewer than 20 people we still managed to have a good time and 'reclaim the streets'... or at least a small part of the streets. And that is the point. Cyclists (and skateboarders etc.) need to demand respect. Two cyclists in as many months have died on the streets of Dublin. How many more need to go under the wheels of trucks before we will come out in real numbers and protest? Is a one hour cycle at the end of every month too much to ask?

What are you hoping to achieve ? What are your goals ? Please give me something more substantial than 'respect'.

BostonB

No idea it was on. How did you hear about it? If theres no advertising how do they expect people to turn up?

BostonB

penexpers wrote: »

I don't agree that blocking the streets is a way to gain respect from road users, hence you will never find me at a critical mass meeting.

I don't see what respect has to do with it. Why do you think its about respect? I would have thought its about raising the awareness of cycling, and encouraging people to get out on their bike.

blorg

@BostonB- that is generally considered to be a large part of the point, the events are held during rush-hour and the participants block the road. Whether it is effective or just serves to consolidate the motorist view of cyclists as the "other" and "****" is of course another matter.

I would participate in one of these activities: http://tweedrun.com/

Lumen

I saw a small group go noisily past the Bernard Shaw last night as I was locking up my bike, assumed they were up to something like this.

Looked less than 10 riders (although I wasn't taking a census or anything).

I'm not sure the dark helped.

BostonB

ah...my bad, I was confusing it with those events during cycle week etc,

Captain Havoc

Not announcing a cycling event on the biggest cycling forum in Ireland and you got less than 20, hmmm

I'm not entirely against critical mass but respect is something you earn and cannot be demanded. People respect me on the road because I keep in and at night I wear flashy red light, hi-viz and good front light, that gets you respect not slowing down traffic, that just makes drivers want to mow you down.

Jersey

carsQhere

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

And that is the point. Cyclists (and skateboarders etc.) need to demand respect. Two cyclists in as many months have died on the streets of Dublin. How many more need to go under the wheels of trucks before we will come out in real numbers and protest?

On the rare occasions I ride the pushbike in Dublin (I'm normally on a motorbike) I have managed to avoid being run over by a truck. How did I manage this miracle? I didn't go up the inside of one when it was turning left.

It's no fun riding a push bike when some of the muppets out there tear past your elbow with an inch to spare, not to mention the state of almost every road in Dublin city, but I see far too many cyclists taking stupid and unnecessary risks to go protesting for respect.

But sure each to their own. I'll just cary on cycling (and riding) defensively thanks.

Ben Ruddy

My main intention in posting about the critical mass was to get people talking about it, more so than express my own views on the matter. I am relatively new to the city (three months) so I am first to admit that I do not have a wealth of experience cycling here. However I have on a few occasions been surprised by the arrogance of some drivers. They are very much in the minority, and you find them in most cities.

My participation in the critical mass was twofold. First to meet other cyclists and second to experience first hand what it means to participate in critical mass. I agree that if future critical mass events are to succeed they need to be 'advertised' in more prominent ways. I heard about it through a friend. Furthermore I do agree that you have to earn your respect as Jersey has stated. I cycle with caution, keep in to the side of the road, wear a helmet, and always use bright bike lights at night.

It seems that the concept of critical mass is very much one of personal opinion.

Caroline_ie

How is a critical mass in Dublin city, on a Friday at Rush hour doing any favours to cyclists?

I don't believe in this cycling crusader attitude.

People who don't like cyclists won't suddenly start liking them, people who can't drive won't start driving more carefully because of it either.

People will only change when it makes to them, not at a rush hour when the kids have to picked up from the creche and dinner cooked...

It reminds me of my cat when I was 12. My dad hated her but the cat kept annoying him, purring all over him, the more he kicked her, the more she was annoying him, Look I am a sweet cat, love me. My dad hated the cat even more ...

blorg

@Ben- how was the CM you attended? Maybe post more details of the experience. I completely agree there is a big problem with a small minority of motorists, I have been knocked down and had my arm broken through someone simply not paying attention, deliberately assaulted, "taught a lesson" by bus drivers, etc. I would have no problem with a ride that cycled no more than two abreast and didn't deliberately inconvenience motorists.

EDIT: Preferably in tweed, see above.

emty

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

My main intention in posting about the critical mass was to get people talking about it, more so than express my own views on the matter. I am relatively new to the city (three months) so I am first to admit that I do not have a wealth of experience cycling here. However I have on a few occasions been surprised by the arrogance of some drivers. They are very much in the minority, and you find them in most cities.

My participation in the critical mass was twofold. First to meet other cyclists and second to experience first hand what it means to participate in critical mass. I agree that if future critical mass events are to succeed they need to be 'advertised' in more prominent ways. I heard about it through a friend. Furthermore I do agree that you have to earn your respect as Jersey has stated. I cycle with caution, keep in to the side of the road, wear a helmet, and always use bright bike lights at night.

It seems that the concept of critical mass is very much one of personal opinion.

Personal opinion?
Then why do you post on this forum and imply that no-one cares about the death of a fellow cyclist?
And while I'm at it,why do you think skateborders should be allowed on the public roads?

BostonB

Seems like a good way to create bad feeling towards cyclists.

petethedrummer

I accidentally joined a critical mass cycle a few weeks ago and thought it was grand. The group was moving constantly and no driver could possibly have been held up for more than 3 or 4 minutes. Certainly less than the amount I was held up by buses and cars hogging the road last friday evening along christchurch, dame st, westmoreland st to connolly station. It was chocolate-block with no room for maneouvre.

I had no idea there were critcal mass rides in Dublin, so it could probably be publicised a bit more.

flickerx

Here's what I wrote on the fgss board about a month back, havent really changed my mind since then:

I used to go to the Dublin ones reasonably regularly before they finished up about 5 or 6 years ago, and I was at about half of the ones over the past year abroad, but to be honest I'm not into it any more; and as a protest I found it a bit self defeating, in Dublin especially. The ride would go around in a circle in the city centre, and the people who were most affected (or more accurately, those who directed their anger at us from the street) were those at the public transport stops, whose bus was delayed by the CM blocking all the lanes of traffic and slowing it to a crawl. Its a Friday evening and most people just want to get home after a long week in work, and they see these cyclists slowing their bus down on purpose, they just get pissed off.

If the aim of it is to convince people in cars or buses that cycling is the fastest, easiest, healthiest and safest way to get around a city, then CM wasnt doing it. The ridiculously slow artificial pace of the ride (nobody rides that slowly when they're riding around, ever) caused the motorists right behind the back to get really angry and aggressive, resulting in confrontation and/or collisions, it wasnt fun or safe. Inevitably the Garda would show up as well and would start to harass people.

I prefer the smaller group rides [this was referring to a few fgss rides which we'd gone on] which go at a decent pace, and which go out into the suburbs. Motorists see cyclists zipping past them through the traffic jams, and I think this is what would influence them more to ditch the car, I think CM only antagonises them and makes them more entrenched. The smaller rides also venture into places where there's less large groups of public transport users, and into the parts of the city where people should be cycling in and out from.

Also on a personal level, these days I just get really frustrated when I'm with friends who ride their bikes at a snail's pace. I'm no Lance Armstrong, I'm unfit, but I guess I get much more of a buzz out of cycling when flying along roads at a continuous higher speed, and like the ones we were on last night out around Malahide and the coast, rather than crawling around in circles in town, surrounded by shops and sh1t like that.

Ben Ruddy

@Caroline: Maybe you should have stood up for your cat more?

@blorg:
The CM was a really good experience for me. Like I said it was my first time being on one. Everyone was in good spirits and a few riders were dressed up in halloween costumes for a bit of fun. We kept about three abreast for most of the ride, never taking up more than one lane. Where there was a bus lane we kept to that one. We were rolling quite slow, about 13kmph so it afforded us the chance to chat along the way. We stopped at all the lights and signalled at each turn.

Coming through Rathmines a few people at a bus stop cheered us on which is contrary to what flickerx has said (although this is obviously only one experience! and flickerx has been on many). At another point a couple of lads outside a pub compared our small group to a CM he had seen in NY city.

There were a few occasions that were a tad sour. One guy tried to intimidate us to move over by revving his car and speeding up behind us and then hitting his brakes hard. One of the guys on the CM told me he was 'bumped' by a guy in a van doing a similar thing a few months ago and wiped out. Another guy in a red van was roaring abuse at us with little cause (he was in the outside free moving lane). But by and large it was good fun and we received little hostility. The tweedrun sounds cool, I'd definately be up for it. I think you have to try things at least once before you know what it's like.

P.S. Also see below about the ghost bike experience.

@emty

Personal opinion?
Then why do you post on this forum and imply that no-one cares about the death of a fellow cyclist?
And while I'm at it,why do you think skateborders should be allowed on the public roads?

I think everything fundamentally has to do with choice, and therefore opinion. I never implied that no-one cares about the death of a cyclist. I simply said that more people should come out to show that cyclists matter.

While we were on the cycle we stopped at Harolds Cross where Paul the Chinese man was killed. The CM group in Dublin has organised a 'ghost bike' there in his memory (chained to the canal railings). It is really appreciated by people who new him and is covered in flowers. Paul was killed while cyling to work. He was going through the junction on a green light when a cement truck turned and ran over him.

On the 20th of November (if I am correct) the Dublin CM will put another ghost bike on the liffey where another man was killed a few weeks ago. He was in his fifties and had been cycling to work for more than twenty years. The week he was killed he had just got a new bike from the bike to work scheme.

I have to say I was really humbled by the respect the CM paid to the two cyclists while on route. I feel that it does make a small difference to the people that new the deceased (as is evident by the flowers on Pauls ghost bike). So CM is not all about p**ssing people off as many have suggested.

About skateboarders, I don't skate, but they do not annoy me when I'm on the road so they are fine in my book.

@flickerx:
I see your point with the small suburban cycle groups. I like to go for such cycles too. I joined in on the CM to see what it was like, something new.

Caroline_ie

afaik, the ghost bike idea @ Harrolds Cross was initiated on this forum and the DCC set it up a couple of weeks afterwards, you can use the search option to look up the original thread.

silvo

The CM group in Dublin has organised a 'ghost bike' there in his memory (chained to the canal railings). It is really appreciated by people who new him and is covered in flowers. Paul was killed while cyling to work. He was going through the junction on a green light when a cement truck turned and ran over him.

On the 20th of November (if I am correct) the Dublin CM will put another ghost bike on the liffey where another man was killed a few weeks ago. He was in his fifties and had been cycling to work for more than twenty years. The week he was killed he had just got a new bike from the bike to work scheme.

I thought that the Ghost Bike scheme was implemented by the Dublin Cycling Campaign rather than Dublin Critical Mass http://www.ghostbikes.org/dublin or could someone clarify?

flickerx

Yep, definitely. Nothing whatsoever about ghost bike being organised by Critical Mass on their mailing list
http://groups.google.ie/group/dublin-critical-mass?hl=en

Caroline_ie

GHOST BIKE ORIGINAL THREAD

Ben Ruddy

Thanks guys, my bad. Should have looked into it, just going by the info I gathered on the CM. I obviously misunderstood.

There are a few CM related sites for Ireland:
http://groups.google.com/group/dublin-critical-mass?pli=1
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94578

emty

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

I went along to the Dublin Critical Mass last night (October 30th), and was surprised by how few people turned up. Many Dublin drivers give very little respect to cyclists and Critical Mass is a means to assert our place (being cyclists) as road users too.

With fewer than 20 people we still managed to have a good time and 'reclaim the streets'... or at least a small part of the streets. And that is the point. Cyclists (and skateboarders etc.) need to demand respect. Two cyclists in as many months have died on the streets of Dublin. How many more need to go under the wheels of trucks before we will come out in real numbers and protest? Is a one hour cycle at the end of every month too much to ask?

If twenty people can make a difference, twenty one can make more. Maybe you should be the next person to join in? It's more than been good for your health, it's good for your head and the environment too.

Next meeting:
Friday November 27th 2009
Start Time: 05:45 PM
Venue: Grafton Street Entrance to St.Stephen's Green

You are most definately implying that people who read this forum don't care about the death of a cyclist.Re-read your op.And if this is all about personal choice why do you need to be part of herd to make a statement.Just because you think its ok for skateboarders to be part of the traffic flow that makes it ok?
I rarely reply to posts but I am willing to make an exception for this one.I cycle every day in Dublin and can say,with my hand on my heart,that on a percentage basis,more cyclists do stupid things than car drivers.

tomasrojo

I personally can't get behind either Critical Mass or Ghost Bikes. They both increase perception of the "otherness" of cyclists.

Critical Mass just annoys people. And if I had to think of a campaign to indelibly associate cycling with death in the public's mind, I couldn't come up with anything more effective than Ghost Bikes. If you want to promote anything, you can't start by antagonising people who don't do it, or by harping on about how dangerous it is. (Particulary when it isn't that dangerous.)

BostonB

I think the ghost bikes are a bit pointless if drivers don't know what they are for. Its a bit like the black spot signs you used to see on roads, or the deaths on the roads signs you also see.

I think cycling properly, and being visible, and letting drivers out at junction would do more to promote better cycling.

ROK ON

Where is the love???

On a more serious nte, it would be better if all road users could learn to get on and accept each others valid reasons for using a road on whatever mode of transport.

Have commuted on a bike for years, with the sole aim of getting to places effectively and effeciently. You do meet dickheads, but they are as likely to cycle as drive a white van.
I just cannot see what it achieves to create this antagonism, which the CM invariably do.

I have recently learned how to drive a car. Beacuse of that, I am pretty slow and cautious when driving on country roads. It would be infuriating for an experienced driver to sit behind me as I trundle along at maybe 65/70% of the speed limit. More often than not, I pull over if the road allows to allow traffic to pass. This has always resulted in courtesy (the two indicator thank you flash).

Likewise, on a bike in Dublin City centre, my only responsibility is to cycle safely - I take a lane where I need to, but would acknowledge cars behind me. Once again, it will often result in courtesy.

Look, I am no angel, and can be a hot-headed angry young (well actually middleaged) man. But protesting at other road users does not get us very far as cyclist.

Ask yourself this. What are the milestones that CM would like to achieve for its organisers to consider it a success? Given as long as the movement has existed, how close is it realising these aims?

I wuld suggest that it has not in any way been a success, in that it is a bunch of misguided anti-establishment folk, just doing what they do. Being angry at the system.

CM puts us apart from other road users IMHO. Dont opt out of society, opt in.

IM0

save the whales instead.

AndyP

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

However I have on a few occasions been surprised by the arrogance of some drivers. They are very much in the minority, and you find them in most cities.

It seems you are defeating you own argument by admitting it is not that big a problem. If the bad drivers are "very much in the minority", why do you think it a good idea to have a meeting at one of the busiest intersections in Dublin at 5.45 on a Friday evening. The more drivers you annoy the more the minority will grow and you will end up having the complete opposite effect you set out to achieve.

I am a professional driver who also cycles and we must remember there are minorities on both sides. If there was an equal level of respect on boh sides we would have a lot less problems getting around town.

At the end of the day it is an unfortunate fact of life that cyclists will be involved in accidents and many wil come off in a bad way.

tallnik

Hi all,

I've recently moved to Dublin, and categorically find this the least safe city, for cycling, out of the approx 10 cities I've lived in. I'm a courteous cyclist, who obeys traffic signals, and wears lights in low-light/night time conditions. I do however claim space in traffic in order to make turns, and also to avoid being "doored" by parked cars.

On to Critical Mass

Check out wikipedia if you want to learn about what critical mass is. I have some issues with how it works in some places, but in Dublin it seems to follow the Critical Manners method, and obeys traffic signals.

The main thing for me is that cyclists are very vulnerable on the streets. whereas drivers are surrounded by metal cages, have seatbelts and airbags, cyclists have a helmet.

Critical mass has been credited in many places with bringing positive change around by forcing attention to cyclists' issues and rights. And you need attention brought to cyclist issues. It's one tool amongst many. The most important thing is to puruse positive legislation for cyclists, and to consider yourself as an ambassador when cycling. Dublin seems to have the legislation down, now if cyclist were to behave better as well as drivers - I think we'd see positive changes!

I will be attending next month!

tallnik

AndyP wrote: »

It seems you are defeating you own argument by admitting it is not that big a problem. If the bad drivers are "very much in the minority", why do you think it a good idea to have a meeting at one of the busiest intersections in Dublin at 5.45 on a Friday evening. The more drivers you annoy the more the minority will grow and you will end up having the complete opposite effect you set out to achieve.

That minority is still too large. Saying that most drivers are courteous is not the same thing as saying it's safe for cyclists...

Lumen

Cycling is not dangerous.

AndyP

tallnik wrote: »

That minority is still too large. Saying that most drivers are courteous is not the same thing as saying it's safe for cyclists...

I didnt refer to the minority, it was quoted from the OP.

The question has to be asked though, what do people who attend CMs ultimatley want. Someone please tell us the outcome that will make them happy.

Bunnyhopper

tallnik wrote: »

Critical mass has been credited in many places with bringing positive change around by forcing attention to cyclists' issues and rights. And you need attention brought to cyclist issues. It's one tool amongst many. The most important thing is to puruse positive legislation for cyclists, and to consider yourself as an ambassador when cycling. Dublin seems to have the legislation down, now if cyclist were to behave better as well as drivers - I think we'd see positive changes!

Which is all very well, but doesn't really address the concerns raised in this thread.

What sort of ambassador sets out to do something that s/he knows will antagonize the very people s/he's trying to win over? Not very diplomatic behaviour that, surely. Behaving better sounds like a good idea, but I'm not convinced that CM (even the mannerly variety) is the best way to do it.

Also, I think Dublin's a long way from having the legislation down.

emty

tallnik wrote: »

Hi all,

I've recently moved to Dublin, and categorically find this the least safe city, for cycling, out of the approx 10 cities I've lived in. I'm a courteous cyclist, who obeys traffic signals, and wears lights in low-light/night time conditions. I do however claim space in traffic in order to make turns, and also to avoid being "doored" by parked cars.

On to Critical Mass

Check out wikipedia if you want to learn about what critical mass is. I have some issues with how it works in some places, but in Dublin it seems to follow the Critical Manners method, and obeys traffic signals.

The main thing for me is that cyclists are very vulnerable on the streets. whereas drivers are surrounded by metal cages, have seatbelts and airbags, cyclists have a helmet.

Critical mass has been credited in many places with bringing positive change around by forcing attention to cyclists' issues and rights. And you need attention brought to cyclist issues. It's one tool amongst many. The most important thing is to puruse positive legislation for cyclists, and to consider yourself as an ambassador when cycling. Dublin seems to have the legislation down, now if cyclist were to behave better as well as drivers - I think we'd see positive changes!

I will be attending next month!

Would it be possible for you to list these ten cities,approximitly how long you lived in them and how exactly,in your opinion,is Dublin a less safe city to cycle in?

mmclo

steady on...one of the main aims of critical mass is not to annoy or antagonise, maybe the timing should be looked at. Philisophically it would seem to be perfectly in tune with what people here want, that people should not permission or approval to cycle, jsut go and do it in a particular place and particular time. Done right no laws are broken. Lets face it where it is done well like Budapest it is a massively powerful positive image. Dublin may not be in this league but it has to start somewhere

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1mwkYdgjTs&feature=related

http://i31.tinypic.com/2mmwrhl.jpg (Ottowa?)

flickerx

tallnik wrote: »

Check out wikipedia if you want to learn about what critical mass is

(snip)

Critical mass has been credited in many places with bringing positive change around by forcing attention to cyclists' issues and rights

I generally dont take Wikipedia as a source of reliable information, its a starting point for links sometimes but thats all I would give it credit for.

As for CM explicitly bringing positive changes, I would be genuinely interested to see some facts, figures, and explanation of how, when, and where an artificially slow monthly ride around in circles, with no leadership or structured organisation, or spokespeople (because IIRC part of its ethos is that it is not meant to have any of those things) somehow managed to interact with city authorities and changed city planning to favour cyclists. Can you give an example of one of these "many" places you mention - with relevant information on how the CM did what you said, and who exactly gave the accreditation to the CM for these changes?

Grey Biker

Hi All. I went on the Critical Mass on Friday and I enjoyed myself it was Great Fun. The reason I went on it was to Show that Cycling is an Extremely Healthy and Cool Fun way to Travel,that Cycling in large Groups is Safer on our Roads. That we are not going away and that we want a better Infrastructure. Nice Wide Dedicated Cycle Paths all over the City and County. Cycle Super Highways between Cities of at least 4 Metre Unidirectional and not like the ones proposed in the UK either. I would like to see a Traffic Free Dublin only available to Public Transport Cyclists and Pedestrians without have to Duck and Dodge Cars and those Horrible Lorries that D.C Council said is banned but isnt.

There was 50 Cyclists on the last C Mass on 25 September,I was hoping for at least 100 this time but alas it was not to be. I could not Print Leaflets because I had no Ink but other People Printed them and Distributed them around the Colleges. There was a Piece in the Free Web Magazine http//ww.lecoolmagazine .ie about C.Mass. On the way into the City there was a Heavy Rain Shower for 20 Minutes starting at 5.00pm this might have put a lot of People off going to the C .Mass.

We started off with 15 Cyclists growing to 20 at various Areas with them breaking off every so often and more joining up with us. We stopped on the Canal Bridge at Harolds X Road across from where the Ghost Bike in Memory of the Chinese Man that got Killed by a Cement Lorry on 14th January last. A French Cyclist got onto the Bridge Parapet and gave a Speech about the Ghost Bike and also the other Man that got Killed on Wellington Quay by an Artic Truck and said a Ghost Bike will be Erected on Wellington Quay as well on the 14 of November I think he said. His Speech was very moving ,it Hit the right Spot.

There will be a C.Mass as usual on the last Friday of the Month Assembling at the Memorial Arch St Stephens Green from 5.45 pm and getting under way at 6.0pm Sharp . There will be no C.Mass in December ,the next one will be in January. So get out on yer Bikes and anything else non Internal Combustion on November the 27th see you there .

blorg

In fairness Dublin IS pretty bad. That is not to say you can't cycle safely around it, I do so every day, but I honestly whenever I go away have an experience of foreign drivers being surprisingly better. This generally involves passing with plenty of room and only when safe.

Where is better would include- France, Spain, Italy, London, New York

Where is worse would include: Lisbon, Madrid (maybe)

emty

Its either one or the other Blorg,you can't have it both ways.
You would have to think that the best way to judge if a place is safe to cycle is to live there for a good length of time and travel during the rush hour in cities and also at night time,when people have been drinking.

tomasrojo

Very true, blorg.

The thing that made cycling in the Netherlands pleasant for me wasn't the facilities (which I found rather slow and crowded compared to using the road), but that you weren't met with uncomprehending anger at any stage.

I also frequently find people here incredulous that I've walked for forty minutes or so to get somewhere. It's a very car-centric culture. More so than anywhere I've lived, bar Orange County.

Close passes are a real irritant here, and must really put the wind up novices.

ILoveBIKES

What a bizzare thread?

I was at the mass and it was just great! A lot of people seem to have a fair idea of how the mass went down, without going of course, but their idea of critical mass in insane. Its very Irish... complain about it, its usually the easiest thing to do:D

This idea of us annoying the drivers is crazy!! We blocked cars for a few minutes on a one lane road and actually pulled in when it was safe to let all of the cars go by! I think people have a warped perception of what happens at the mass without ever going. One person said something about anti-establishment, WHAT THE HELL???:eek:

I didnt see the socialst workers party there and there was no political spewl AT ALL. The ride was so postitve, I said to motorists (with open windows) 'the traffic is bad eh? you need to get yourself a bike', which was met with smiles, not hostility. There was maybe two cars who beeped and reved, one of them was actually in a moving lane. We didnt stop any public transport, thats simply nonsense. There has been serious fabrications about the critical mass on this thread, very delibrate ones indeed.

I think what most people forget it is a celebration of bikes. You will never have so much fun, and feel so safe in Dublin city than when there are 20 - 40 (and hopefully hundreds) of cyclists together.

To make myself clear, there was no intentional blocking of cars or lanes, most of the time we made sure we WERE NOT PISSING OFF CARS. Do people really think that we're silly enough to go out there to try and convince people to cycle... by pissing them off?

Hows about this, all of the mis-informed, come to the next one. If you dont like it, you can just cycle away.;)

To the people who have never been on a mass, let me tell you now, there is a serious element of lies out there, dont ask me why?:(

It was soooooooooooo much fun, and people (non-cyclists) were generally happy. I waved at cars and pedestrians alike, and we recieved warm smiles and waves back. It was all good, we also had lots of bells and whistles

GO CRITICAL MASS!:pac:

Lumen

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

There has been serious fabrications about the critical mass on this thread, very delibrate ones indeed...To the people who have never been on a mass, let me tell you now, there is a serious element of lies out there, dont ask me why?:(

It's because we know where you live.

hamperlady

I was on the critical mass ride on Friday and really enjoyed it. September's Critical Mass was bigger with around 50 riders but even with the smaller numbers it was still great.

Everyone who goes to critical mass goes for a different reason. Yes it's a protest, we only ride for an hour once a month, yes we have a small effect on traffic but it has less impact than the Taxi strikes for example.

Critical mass is a world wide event, it happens in cities around the world on the last Friday of every month. In some cities it numbers thousands.

More than a protest it's a gathering of cyclists, of like minded people and a community event. We ride slowly so no matter what your fitness level you can join in. So far we have had mixed reactions from motorists, some are encouraging and some (mostly taxi drivers) have been angry.

If you don't agree that's fair enough if you want to come along for the ride and see it from our perspective come along next month and try it out.

flickerx

What a bizarre post.

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

What a bizzare thread?

I was at the mass and it was just great! A lot of people seem to have a fair idea of how the mass went down, without going of course, but their idea of critical mass in insane. Its very Irish... complain about it, its usually the easiest thing to do:D

Yes, obviously if we dont go, we have no right to discuss it or air our opinions on what we feel is good or bad about it.

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

This idea of us annoying the drivers is crazy!! We blocked cars for a few minutes on a one lane road and actually pulled in when it was safe to let all of the cars go by! I think people have a warped perception of what happens at the mass without ever going. One person said something about anti-establishment, WHAT THE HELL???:eek:

I didnt see the socialst workers party there and there was no political spewl AT ALL. The ride was so postitve, I said to motorists (with open windows) 'the traffic is bad eh? you need to get yourself a bike', which was met with smiles, not hostility. There was maybe two cars who beeped and reved, one of them was actually in a moving lane. We didnt stop any public transport, thats simply nonsense. There has been serious fabrications about the critical mass on this thread, very delibrate ones indeed.

So up to this point you've labelled the cyclists who commented on this thread as insane, crazy, having warped perceptions, talking nonsense, and making serious fabrications. May I suggest in order to try and convince people to come along to future rides, you start from a different perspective and listen to the arguments and points that people have made, and respond to them - rather than just criticise them, coupled with a mindlessly inane report of the ride.

I doubt somehow that you are able to accurately gauge the opinion of every driver in the cars you pass. I also seriously doubt that the motorists stuck behind you appreciated your comments.

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

I think what most people forget it is a celebration of bikes. You will never have so much fun, and feel so safe in Dublin city than when there are 20 - 40 (and hopefully hundreds) of cyclists together.

I was abroad for a while, and in the city that I lived in, there was an area called "The Entertainment District". This was actually the official name of the place, on maps and so on, just like Clonsilla or Ongar, etc. I found it really creepy, something vaguely Soviet-bloc era about it. You will go here, and you will have fun. Similarly, when someone tells me "you will never have so much fun", it rings alarm bells in my head. It sounds slightly like a religious devotional or a timeshare salesperson.

But regardless, as I mentioned before, and I've been on Critical Masses in Dublin numerous times. They arent fun to me any more. They're artificially slow, they're dangerous, they dont go anywhere except the city centre. Attendances fell off and eventually died for numerous reasons, I think, and from the sounds of it, the same mistakes that were made before are being made again. From reports of this ride, it sounds as if there were less than half the amount of people attending compared to the last one.

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

To make myself clear, there was no intentional blocking of cars or lanes, most of the time we made sure we WERE NOT PISSING OFF CARS. Do people really think that we're silly enough to go out there to try and convince people to cycle... by pissing them off?

Hows about this, all of the mis-informed, come to the next one. If you dont like it, you can just cycle away.;)

If you're not intentionally blocking cars or slowing the traffic down (which I thought was one of the points/aims of CM), then why does the ride go so slowly? Why do the cyclists deliberately go slower than they ever would when commuting normally?

There you go with the labelling again, calling us mis-informed. I see you below you are now also calling people's comment "lies". Nice first posting to the board, definitely one way to get off on the wrong foot.

ILoveBIKES wrote: »

To the people who have never been on a mass, let me tell you now, there is a serious element of lies out there, dont ask me why?:(

It was soooooooooooo much fun, and people (non-cyclists) were generally happy. I waved at cars and pedestrians alike, and we recieved warm smiles and waves back. It was all good, we also had lots of bells and whistles

GO CRITICAL MASS!:pac:

Hmm. Lets see how many people show up to the next one. I'm pretty much 100% convinced by your posting - that I definitely wouldnt go to one again.

Ben Ruddy

I think cycling is definately becoming more and more popular in Ireland as a means of transport (especially in the big cities) and I was glad to hear about the introduction of the bike to work scheme. Any scheme that helps get more people out of cars and onto bikes is good in my books.

@blorg
But the city councils need to understand how important it is for cyclists to have good cycle lanes. I spent the last year in Montreal in Canada. It gets so cold there in the winter for months at a time (-30c). Very few people want to cycle in that cold with all the ice and snow. BUT in the summer it is like there is an explosion of cyclists! So many people bike everywhere. AND they have the facilities for cyclists. Wide and smooth bike lanes with concrete barriers for protection and to stop cars parking in the bike lanes. People love to bike and the Montreal city council respects that a lot. Perhaps what we need is a change in attitude by the council before real change will happen.

@tomasrojo
Cultural attitudes to this matter do seem most important.

@emty
Have you been on a CM before? Where is all your hostility stemming from?

Gavin

Relevant post from Dave Moulton http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/2/miami-critical-mass.html?lastPage=true#comment6086436

flickerx

Ben Ruddy wrote: »

People love to bike and the Montreal city council respects that a lot. Perhaps what we need is a change in attitude by the council before real change will happen.

Last time I checked, DCC put 450 rental bikes on the city streets, more to come, just like Bixi in Montreal; also in the process of building a separate raised bike lane in the east of the city as a crosstown route; a vote tonight on whether to keep the bus corridor or not (only as a result of a court case brought by upmarket traders), the corridor is supported by a councillor (Andrew Montague, respect to him) who is a regular now on this board and is extremely open and facilitating to cycling, who I would also credit for the spaces in Drury Street. Our contributions and discussions with him here, have probably done 100 times more for cycling in this city than Critical Mass ever could or would. In fact, as much as it pains me to say it, Noel Dempsey of Fianna Fail has probably done more to improve the safety of cyclists in the last four weeks than years of CM would do either.