Ticket Checker Bullying a Minor

Nottoosure

Hi There,

This is a first for me to start a thread here, but I'm so incensed about what happened to my youngest son today.

He is 17 (point 5) & he started college in Dublin last Sept. He comes home every weekend, so, when he goes up he buys a weekly return ticket at the train station (Enniscorthy). Last week I bought the ticket for him & he travelled up fine, today, when he was travelling home I got a call from him to say that the ticket man had a problem, I spoke to the ticket man (I will not call this person a Ticket Master as he was master of nothing, not even speech), he said that my son's student travel card looked like it had been tampered with so, he was Confiscating it (my 17 year old son's picture, date of birth, address etc.) & it is now in a stranger's hands. He also made my son pay for an adult ticket (€18.90) even though he had paid already.

I asked him what he was accusing my son of & he couldn't tell me, I asked him if the rail ticket we had bought the week before was bogus & he said "no". I again asked him what he was accusing my son of & he couldn't tell me, I asked him if he thought the Student Card was bogus, he said that the numbers loked a bit funny (this card came from CIE 2 months ago), I said to him to look at my son and tell me if he is a 19 year old trying to get a student's fare, he said "no", (my son is 17 & looks every bit of 15).

I again asked what the accusation was, he couldn't tell me. He also couldn't tell me where the student travel card was going to & what was going to happen to it (this is my biggest worry, the €18.90 can hang itself), this is my child's identity.

As a footnote, this little "fat controller" should have seen a lovely talented, clever & loving 17 year old boy, come home & put his head in his hands & hold it there for at least 15 minutes until my eldest came in & cheered him up, but the "fat controller" was possibly in the pub, pontificating to all around about how important he is (a machine would actually do the job better).

My last word is - decent people with real skills are crying out for jobs, why do people like this deprive them of a job?

pinkypinky

That's terrible behaviour. I hope you're writing a letter of complaint to CIE. If you give the date and time and place of the encounter, they'll be able to identify the ticket checker. At the very least, I would expect an explanation and apology.

Nottoosure

Hi There,

The ticket checker had no problem giving me his name, so obviously there is no way of repremanding a person like this in the organisation, which is disgraceful.

We all meet people like this in our lives, but at 17, on your own, with people staring at you, he was devistated & who could blame him.

We are doing something about it, but we're going down the "telephone the customer service" area, at the moment. We just want to get the student card back, really, to make sure nothing sinister is going on, as the whole episode screams sinister to me.

Regards.

dvpower

Nottoosure wrote: »

We all meet people like this in our lives, but at 17, on your own, with people staring at you, he was devistated & who could blame him.

Jeez. He got unfairly badly treated by someone in (some kind of) authority. It's not going to be the last time in his life that this happens.

Put it down to experience and move on; maybe the next time this happens he'll have learned from this experience and push back a bit more and refuse to buy a second ticket.

Judgement Day

Don't waste your time with the organ grinder's monkey here - if you feel completely in the right - put a complaint in writing to the CEO of Irish Rail, Dick Fearn, Iarnrod Eireann, Connolly Station, Dublin.1. by registered mail.

Nottoosure

dvpower wrote: »

Jeez. He got unfairly badly treated by someone in (some kind of) authority. It's not going to be the last time in his life that this happens.

Put it down to experience and move on; maybe the next time this happens he'll have learned from this experience and push back a bit more and refuse to buy a second ticket.

Hi There DV,

He has moved on as we are very supportive to each other & this kind of thing happens, but even though it happens very seldom, when it does happen, it comes as a complete surprise & it hits you in the pit of your heart & it takes the total wind out of you.

But, that is not our problem, our problem is the taking (or as the ticket guy called it "conficating") of the Student Card, with all his details & the lack of information about what would happen to it, my son's photo' & all his details are on this card, this is our worry. Especially with a ticket man who acted like a gangster.

Regards.

Nottoosure

Judgement Day wrote: »

Don't waste your time with the organ grinder's monkey here - if you feel completely in the right - put a complaint in writing to the CEO of Irish Rail, Dick Fearn, Iarnrod Eireann, Connolly Station, Dublin.1. by registered mail.

Hi There,

Cheers & will do. Thank you very much.

Regards.

sdanseo

I know this sounds insensitive - but I think you must be overreacting by saying your son was "devestated" by this. He was accused of having a fake ticket or travelcard, granted, and the ticket checker was a bit of an asshole, granted. But that's not something that should affect a 17 year-old too badly. If it's bothering him as much as you let on, something else could be wrong too or he's overreacting in a way that would concern me.


I do agree that people in a position of authority like this shouldn't treat people like that though, and I second the idea of a registered letter to CIÉ.

Mr. Presentable

Not to be funny, but your son needs a strong male influence at home. He should not allow himself to be bullied by a ticket checker if he has his pass.

Aard

Why are people giving the OP advice on how she should raise her child, and how her child should act? This isn't PI or the Parenting Forum.


OP, Judgement Day's advice is spot-on.

Nottoosure

nipplenuts wrote: »

Not to be funny, but your son needs a strong male influence at home. He should not allow himself to be bullied by a ticket checker if he has his pass.

To answer yourself and sdonn:

My son has a father we have been married for 21 years, we all live in the same house & we are a happy, loving family. My son was temporarily upset by this event (he is happily playing with the dog at the moment).

Jeez, lads We're only worried about what will happen to his Student Card. GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is a happy, well adjusted lad (with a Mother & FATHER!!), & he is already over it

Mr. Presentable

All I'm saying is, he shouldn't hand it over. If they chose not to accept it, fine, but not hand it over.

ballsymchugh

this isn't about having a strong male influence at home!! this guy was on his way home on a friday night after a week away. as far as i can remember, the train home for the weekend is a place where you just want to sleep, so the last thing you would expect is rubbish like this from someone with a serious dose of small man syndrome. unfortunately as it's been said, these guys are all over the place. from the bouncers that turn me away because i'm too drunk (even though i'm teetotal) to the security guard at knock that didn't let me go back on the plane to find my passport that i accidentally let fall before i got off (even before i got into the terminal).
the unfortunate thing is, if a complaint is made, this guy has a union that will more than likely not allow anything to happen.
what we need is an appointed nutkicker, to kick these guys where it hurts when they take off on their next power trip!

Nottoosure

Aard wrote: »

Why are people giving the OP advice on how she should raise her child, and how her child should act? This isn't PI or the Parenting Forum.


OP, Judgement Day's advice is spot-on.

Hi There,

Thank you for that. I'm in no way a single parent, but most of my friends & some of my family are. I was lucky enough to meet an honest man 23 years ago.

As regards what my son went through - I only said that he put his head in his hands for 15 minutes, after that he was chatting to his brother, went to a friends house & is now home (playing PS games).

I'll say it again (not for you but for others here), we're only worried about his Student Travel Card!!!

I know some folk like to play "devil's advocate" here but in this case, there is a right & there is a wrong & my son was wronged, big time.

Nottoosure

nipplenuts wrote: »

All I'm saying is, he shouldn't hand it over. If they chose not to accept it, fine, but not hand it over.

He is SEVENTEEN YEARS OLD for gawds sake, he doesn't know howto argue with a grown-up (that's the way to get through school in this country), the ticket fella threatened court & jail on him (I could tell the whole thing but it would take too long).

What you said earlier was wrong, you made an assumption about his family (especially about my marital status) & you were wrong, myself & his father have been happily married for 21 years, apologise & then I will sleep after a bad day. (have you ever had a bad day?), (have you got children?), if so (do you worry about them?), this story is one-sided & you & your pal tried to make two sides out of it, there is only one side. GET OVER IT & practice your Journalism studies on another thread.

highlydebased

I've been in the same situation myself and I'm not much older than the OP's son, my initial reaction was to panic also and not fight back. He eventually let me speak to a superior who said "on ya go lad.."

dvpower

Nottoosure wrote: »

Hi There DV,

He has moved on as we are very supportive to each other & this kind of thing happens, but even though it happens very seldom, when it does happen, it comes as a complete surprise & it hits you in the pit of your heart & it takes the total wind out of you.

I can understand that. But I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing; a relatively gentle reminder that life sucks (sometimes) and maybe that this kind of nonsense doesn't have to be accepted.

Nottoosure wrote: »

But, that is not our problem, our problem is the taking (or as the ticket guy called it "conficating") of the Student Card, with all his details & the lack of information about what would happen to it, my son's photo' & all his details are on this card, this is our worry. Especially with a ticket man who acted like a gangster.

Regards.

I'm sure a strongly worded letter of complaint to CIE will sort this out in no time. I wouldn't be worried on the Identity Theft angle.

thethedev

I know when I was 17, I'd have gotten fairly pissed off and told yore man to stick his ideas about confiscating up his arse.
Your son needs to learn to argue, thats all I learnt from school!

dvpower

thethedev wrote: »

I know when I was 17, I'd have gotten fairly pissed off and told yore man to stick his ideas about confiscating up his arse.
Your son needs to learn to argue, thats all I learnt from school!

When I was a kid (a bit younger than 17) I went into

Easons

and bought a pack of markers. The shop assistant gave me a receipt but didn't give me a bag. Stupidly I dropped the receipt and continued to browse around the shop. When I went to go, I was stopped by a store detective and brought into a room where I was accused of stealing. I was completely in shock. They wanted me to confess to a theft; I tried to explain what happened, I could tell then how much money my mother gave me that morning, how much I spent on bus fare, and on the markers, and I could show them how much I had left in my pocket.

Eventually they let me go, but I learned a valuable lesson (on reflection).
I think that this kind of thing can only happen a couple of times before you learn to kick back at it, so I think the OPs kid can put this in his back pocket as a bit of life experience.

dowlingm

To the OP - make sure you put your complaint in writing rather than telephoning, and consider cc'ing your local TD. It will be harder for them to put it straight in the bin.

Where I live, a complaint must be sent in by fax or post - email and telephone they will take under advisement but the collective agreement stipulates that no disciplinary action can follow without a written complaint signed by the passenger.

L1011

Irish Rail ticket checker in power trip shocker...

I've noticed this of late - who taught the ticket checkers to be muppets? I've seen people in Connolly offering to pay for fare when stations are closed on weekends being ordered to pay standard fares (50 quid) for having dared to get on the train without a ticket, despite there not being any tickets to be had.

This is after many years of being able to hand over cash for any ticket you want on arrival to Connolly - closed station or not. They're ticket checkers, they're basically doing the lowest of the low clerical jobs and all of a sudden they appear to think they're gods.

AlekSmart

Just to deal with the OP`s declared major concern.

Has anybody got a copy of the T`s & C`s of the Student Travelcard ?

This card replaced the former USIT card for Public Transport concessionary use.

AFAIR this ST card is some sort of PPP wheeze dreamed up to squeeze more money from folks for a service which should be an integral part of a Public Transport entity.

OP,If you have any documentation for the ST then check to see if the card remains the property of the issuer.
All actual Travel Tickets remain the property of the issuer which allows them to be legally taken up and retained by an Authorised Person,however you`ll need to check with the Student Travelcard people to ascertain if that`s the case with the ST itself.

Trampas

To OP

Post your thread on http://www.railusers.ie/forum/ they are good over there with IR issues

Reganio 2

Nice to see the usual Irish reaction of "Consider it a life experience", that's why we have these people that go on power trips because to many people don't bother complaining about it, we shouldn't have "Just one of those people" they should be out of jobs with complaints.

Cianos

nipplenuts wrote: »

Not to be funny, but your son needs a strong male influence at home. He should not allow himself to be bullied by a ticket checker if he has his pass.

What? Are you suggesting that women can't be, or can't influence their children to be, assertive? Maybe you need a strong female influence at home :rolleyes:

corktina

where the hell do some of you crawl out of...? A parent concerned for their 17 year old out in the big bad world doesnt need the grief they are getting here. Their Child got treated badly and they are looking at the least for somewhere to sound off about it and at best for advice on what to do about it.

I hope , OP, you get it sorted and your kid is OK..ignore self-opinionated twits and carry on careing for your kid...

Run_to_da_hills

There is a good chance this incident was caught on cam. Althere there is no sound it might show the inspectors movements and confiscating the ticket.

goingnowhere

Problem here is your story isn't making a lot of sense

Confiscating it (my 17 year old son's picture, date of birth, address etc.) & it is now in a stranger's hands.

The card doesn't have a date of birth or address on it

I asked him if he thought the Student Card was bogus, he said that the numbers loked a bit funny (this card came from CIE 2 months ago), I said to him to look at my son and tell me if he is a 19 year old trying to get a student's fare, he said "no", (my son is 17 & looks every bit of 15).

CIE didn't issue the card

Bluetonic

Nottoosure wrote: »

What you said earlier was wrong, you made an assumption about his family (especially about my marital status) & you were wrong, myself & his father have been happily married for 21 years, apologise & then I will sleep after a bad day.

In fairness to the poster they never made assumptions about your marital status or strength of your marriage. There are plenty of happily married adults where neither are a strong influence on their children. Ranting and raving looking for an apology for something the poster never assumed reflects badly on you, and shows you tend to over react to things.

Nottoosure wrote: »

there is only one side.

There is always two sides.

I hope you get this sorted and get some peace of mind.

netwhizkid

Similar thing happened to me when I was 16 at Heuston, except I had no student card and was chancing my luck. I told the controller I presume you will be taking full responsibility of me as a minor in your care now for the night if I can't travel. I was left on

Another time there was a crush in Killarney when they refused to open gates, I told the conductor if you don't open these gates I will go in there and you won't know what hit you. He called the guards over and I told them we were being crushed, the guards made them open the gates and I told yer man to go F his mother royally!!! People have no spine when challenged and people need to stand up for themselves.

corktina

netwhizkid wrote: »

Similar thing happened to me when I was 16 at Heuston, except I had no student card and was chancing my luck. I told the controller I presume you will be taking full responsibility of me as a minor in your care now for the night if I can't travel. I was left on

Another time there was a crush in Killarney when they refused to open gates, I told the conductor if you don't open these gates I will go in there and you won't know what hit you. He called the guards over and I told them we were being crushed, the guards made them open the gates and I told yer man to go F his mother royally!!! People have no spine when challenged and people need to stand up for themselves.

If I were you I wouldnt be very proud of myself and definately wouldbnt be admitting that sort of thing publicly.

Amtmann

dvpower wrote: »

When I was a kid (a bit younger than 17) I went into

Easons

and bought a pack of markers. The shop assistant gave me a receipt but didn't give me a bag. Stupidly I dropped the receipt and continued to browse around the shop. When I went to go, I was stopped by a store detective and brought into a room where I was accused of stealing. I was completely in shock. They wanted me to confess to a theft; I tried to explain what happened, I could tell then how much money my mother gave me that morning, how much I spent on bus fare, and on the markers, and I could show them how much I had left in my pocket.

Eventually they let me go, but I learned a valuable lesson (on reflection).
I think that this kind of thing can only happen a couple of times before you learn to kick back at it, so I think the OPs kid can put this in his back pocket as a bit of life experience.

I'll teach you another valuable lesson now: you could have sued them very easily for several thousand euro. And you should have.

veryangryman

Furet wrote: »

I'll teach you another valuable lesson now: you could have sued them very easily for several thousand euro. And you should have.

I dont think you can sue them for making an honest mistake.

Many burglaries happen from someone grabbing something discreetly and then wandering around the store as normal so as not to arouse suspicion. Maybe the security guard had seen similar before. The fact that you had no receipt was another unusual coincidence.

If they did try to make you confess then yes you would have a case, but for several thousand? Im not legal genius, but i doubt it.

Amtmann

veryangryman wrote: »

I dont think you can sue them for making an honest mistake.

Many burglaries happen from someone grabbing something discreetly and then wandering around the store as normal so as not to arouse suspicion. Maybe the security guard had seen similar before. The fact that you had no receipt was another unusual coincidence.

If they did try to make you confess then yes you would have a case, but for several thousand? Im not legal genius, but i doubt it.

For my sins I had to work with a security company for several years to put myself through college. Believe me, if you make a citizen's arrest in the wrong, you have a) committed false imprisonment and b) slandered the accused. You can be sure the store detectives were counting their lucky stars when they realised he wasn't going to sue them!

penexpers

veryangryman wrote: »

but i doubt it.

You doubt wrong. False imprisonment is a very serious matter and civil cases have known to be settled for five-figure sums.

Bluetonic

penexpers wrote: »

You doubt wrong. False imprisonment is a very serious matter and civil cases have known to be settled for five-figure sums.

Only this week this case paid out and it wasn't even false imprisonment.

amdublin

What are you looking for?

(1) Info on how to complain or (2) sympathy for your son?

(1) Complain to Iarnrod Eirean via:
Customer Relation Department
Southern and Western
Iarnród Éireann
Heuston Station
Dublin 8

(2) Your "child" is 17. Soon he will be 18 and will be an adult. Probably time to start preparing for that. (You and him)


Oh btw, as an aside, I read your original post and took it that you were a father talking about your son. So when that poster said that your child "needs a strong male influence" I thought they were talking about you. Maybe that is the way that poster interpreted your post as well???

DWCommuter

May I just say to the OP that you have perhaps come to the worst place on the planet for advice on this as the imbecile internet warriors that live here will leave a bitter after taste which will overcome any good advice you receive from the decent majority.

Judgement Days advice about writing to the CEO is worth a shot.

Railusers Ireland may also be worth a try for advice but beware that some over there will also have a tendency to see your concern as something that doesn't "fit" with their love affair of railway bye laws. But there's a few really decent people who may guide you.

Alternatively, if you want to PM me I'll happily give you an Irish Rail email address that will get you on the road to a quick resolution.

AlekSmart

Perhaps notsosure`s Son encountered the Ticket Checker involved with this fine fellow.....

Originally Posted by netwhizkid View Post
Similar thing happened to me when I was 16 at Heuston,I told the controller I presume you will be taking full responsibility of except I had no student card and was chancing my luck. me as a minor in your care now for the night if I can't travel. I was left on

Another time there was a crush in Killarney when they refused to open gates, I told the conductor if you don't open these gates I will go in there and you won't know what hit you. He called the guards over and I told them we were being crushed, the guards made them open the gates and I told yer man to go F his mother royally!!! People have no spine when challenged and people need to stand up for themselves.

Quite obviously there goes a lad "Well able to stand up for hisself"...but at what cost to those less robust who trail along in his wake ?

As goingnowhere also points out the two other elements do not lend much support to the OP`s points,

The card doesn't have a date of birth or address on it

CIE didn't issue the card

Also there now appears to be an element of garnish being applied as we now have an allegation of alcohol consumption whilst on-duty....

The school system in this country teaches against standing up for yourself, my chap is 17 and did his Leaving Cert. last June (if he had stood up for himself he would have been expelled), he's from a very rural area. So give him a break as he had a bad 20 minutes from a semi drunk ticket fella on his way home (seemingly ticket guy reeked of drink) & he was taken by fright. Again I'll say, he's only 17.

Now this complaint is moving in a somewhat different direction,one which would merit summary dismissal and criminal charges.

I can guarantee the OP that Irish Rail,and the CIE Group overall will have No Problem whatsoever in dismissing an employee PROVEN to have consumed alcohol whilst on-duty.

However I am somewhat uneasy with such revelations coming along after-the-fact,almost as an aside ?

I`m also not quite sure why the OP would need to qualify the young gentlemans allegations by describing his "Very Rural" background.....the Ticket Checker could also be from such a background a fact which surely would be irrelevant in 21st C Ireland...or is it ?

I rather agree with the suggestions of other "Non Imbicilic"posters here regarding a written complaint and perhaps retuen to the thread AFTER I.E.have repiled to that.

I should imagine that in cases of confiscation a Ticket Checker will need to write up a report and submit that along with the ticket/card to his/her superior for processing.

Thus far we have heard the case for the prosecution,perhaps now it`s the turn of the defence to rebut...???

Bluetonic

Nottoosure wrote: »

So give him a break as he had a bad 20 minutes from a semi drunk ticket fella on his way home (seemingly ticket guy reeked of drink)

So now the ticket checker was drunk too.

This story just gets better and better.

amdublin

Bluetonic wrote: »

So now the ticket checker was drunk too.

No. Apparently just "semi drunk"

Mrs OBumble

I do hope that the 17-yo young adult in questions has done his own investigations about how to proceed with getting the card back, and written his own letter of complaint.

Love to hear back, ideally from him rather than mammy/daddy, about what happens.

AlekSmart

I do hope that the 17-yo young adult in questions has done his own investigations about how to proceed with getting the card back, and written his own letter of complaint.

This,perhaps IS the nub of the issue.

JustMary may well have spotted that little grey area between a parents perception of their "Child" and that childs perception of themselves ?

Sometimes the two are at variance...?

Harpie

If your son is in college, then he should have one of these




They do not have any address or date of birth details, as you mentioned in relation to your son's ID, and certainly will not pose any issue when produced for inspection. This afaik is the ONLY valid student ID for use on the train. It cannot be tampered with and supplies only photo identification and proof that the customer is a college student. It sounds like your son had the wrong kind of ID, which may be why the inspector took issue with it.

I think if you were looking for serious responses your posts could do with a LOT less melodrama and speculation (Drunk inspector, FFS).

amdublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

JustMary may well have spotted that little grey area between a parents perception of their "Child" and that childs perception of themselves ?

Absolutely. I think this is the crux of it all. While I acknowledge that what happened to the young adult was not very nice, that the mother of 17.5year feels to neccessity to come on to an internet forum going on as if he is an eight year old is a bit strange

TBH the OP sounds like the type of mother who was always up and down to school complaing about teachers and other pupils etc and is missing that now that he is in college.

I think you need to encourage your son to deal with upsetting experiences himself. Good luck.

amdublin

Nottoosure wrote: »

We just want to get the student card back, really, to make sure nothing sinister is going on, as the whole episode screams sinister to me.

What are you on about here????

Seriously. Read over what you wrote and ask yourself what you think you sound like going on like this.

Like basically the gist of your post is: "We are worried about the drunk ticket checker sinisterly taking our son's (17.5!!) student card"

I think at this stage "we" (you and your husband?) need to step back and let your son stand on his own two feet. At this stage of his life he should be ready to move on from mammy dealing with customer service in IE and be able to deal with himself.

AlekSmart

I wonder if the OP is referring to THIS type of ID card.

http://www.irishrail.ie/images/pdfs/RAILCARD_APP_Form.pdf

I`m not au-fait with this particular card but it DOES seem to be issue by Iarnrod Eireann rather than the third-party Student Travelcard. (Although it does remain the property of the issuer and is liable to confiscation also)

Perhaps somebody has a copy of THIS card which could be posted to show ahat info is contained on it ?

Enii

OK so the point of the matter is that the OP has concerns that her son's ID card was confiscated by a Railway station official because they thought it was tampered with.

I don't see what the issue is here.

It was either tampered with and therefore the railway official was right to confiscate the card.

Or on the other hand the card was not tampered with and the official was in the wrong when they took the card.

IMO there is nothing sinister going on - unless the OP is implying that it was a bogus official demanding to see young men's IDs and then taking the ID's from them.

IT is hard out to make out what exactly the situation is given the hysterical ranting of the OP in relation to her 17.5 yr old son (or "child" as she refers to him!!!!).

The 17 (point five) year old young man should ring on Monday morning and investigate why his card was confiscated. Mammy, meanwhile, should probably sit on her hands and try not to interfere in his business while he does this.

amdublin

I'm still perturbed about this thread. I am re-reading it to see if I am missing something or misintrepreting something....

I don't think I am!

Hey, isn't the thread title a bit misleading? Like by saying bullying it is implying that this is an ongoing situation. Whereas it was only one event so should it not say "Ticket Checker Bullied a Minor???

Aard

I don't think so tbh. I interpret it as, "What to do in the event of a ticket-checker bullying a minor".

Fries-With-That

Quote:
"The school system in this country teaches against standing up for yourself, my chap is 17 and did his Leaving Cert. last June (if he had stood up for himself he would have been expelled), he's from a very rural area. So give him a break as he had a bad 20 minutes from a semi drunk ticket fella on his way home (seemingly ticket guy reeked of drink) & he was taken by fright. Again I'll say, he's only 17."


I lifted the above from a post that is using the above as a quote from the OP, but I can't find the OPs post that contained this quote ?


Has the OP deleted some posts or is my eyesight getting really bad after all ?