Episode Re-watch: 1x10 - Raised by Another

Sad Professor

This is just an experiment and may not work, but I thought it would be a good way to create some activity in here while waiting for season 6. I doubt there will be enough interest in this to do it regularly, but maybe we could discuss a different episode every 2 or 3 weeks, giving everyone a chance to watch the episode and weigh in.

(Let me know if you think is a good or bad idea.)

Synopsis: 1x10 - Raised by Another

After experiencing terrifying nightmares two days in a row, Claire begins to think that someone is trying to hurt her baby. In response, Hurley decides to start a census of all the survivors. Flashbacks in this episode focus on Claire's struggle with accepting the fact that she has to raise her unborn child herself.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Raised_by_Another

I just picked this episode to get the ball rolling, so feel free to suggest other episodes for future discussion. But I think it's better that we discuss episodes that still contain a significant unanswered question, rather than just picking very popular episodes like Walkabout, The Constant, or the finales, which there isn't must to say about anymore.

"Raised by Another" was the first Claire-centric episode and, with her returning, is likely to be very relevant to the final season. One of the dream sequences containing Locke is also kinda interesting in the light of season 5 events. The big question though is Aaron. This episode suggests he's very important. Why? And what are the possible consequences of Claire not raising him? Remember Kate left him off with her mother last season.

Mr.Nice Guy

Good idea.

I'm very curious about this episode too and as I recall Claire was convinced that the psychic guy Malkin knew what was going to happen. This seems plausible since he was very insistent she get on flight 815. On the other hand he told Eko he was a fraud.

I think though he more than likely does have an ability and that someone was likely pulling the strings behind the scenes, wanting him to get Claire on the island. Interestingly Lostpedia says Malkin tells Claire more or less the same line that Eloise told Jack about it having to be that particular flight. Coincidence, or is she involved in this?

Sad Professor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm very curious about this episode too and as I recall Claire was convinced that the psychic guy Malkin knew what was going to happen. This seems plausible since he was very insistent she get on flight 815. On the other hand he told Eko he was a fraud.

Yeah, but he might have been lying to Eko. Eko was investigating his daughter who claimed she came back to life. That was in "?" in season 2, another episode worth revisiting.

I think though he more than likely does have an ability and that someone was likely pulling the strings behind the scenes, wanting him to get Claire on the island. Interestingly Lostpedia says Malkin tells Claire more or less the same line that Eloise told Jack about it having to be that particular flight. Coincidence, or is she involved in this?

Yeah, and as we saw in "316", Hawking can track the island via the The Lamp Post and was able to tell Jack what plane to get. This makes it quite likely that she, and perhaps others, knew that the original Flight 815 was headed to the island as well.

So Malkin didn't need to be psychic to know the plane was going to crash. This could make sense, as it would mean Malkin was neither outright lying nor telling the truth, but a mixture of both. He was masquerading as a psychic but nevertheless knew full well what he was doing in telling Claire to get on the plane. Remember, he initially discourages Claire from giving the baby up for adoption, but then suddenly changes his mind. Maybe he was just trying to delay her until the flight.

But why? Who did "they" want on the island? Claire or Aaron?

cooker3

I'd guess they wanted Claire or at least a pregnant women to experiment on.

uncleoswald

I always assumed he was a fraud (aren't they all?) but then suddenly he got a genuine premonition that scared the bejaysus out of him. Of course it might reallyhave been a visit from Eloise, Jacob, Unlocke etc etc... that changed his mind.

And I also assume it was Claire not Aaron who was important as she seems so tied up with the island now. Her character has basically been absent for the last two seasons that there is bound to be a major revelation concerning her. Or else the writers just hate her.

Or I was also thinking that we may have an Omen type revalation in which it turns out Aaron is the second coming of Jacob. This could explain The Others testing on children etc.. as they were waiting for the second coming to arrive on the island. And to stop it from happening Unlocke or someone could have did something to prevent children from been born on the island.

Sad Professor

uncleoswald wrote: »

I always assumed he was a fraud (aren't they all?) but then suddenly he got a genuine premonition that scared the bejaysus out of him. Of course it might reallyhave been a visit from Eloise, Jacob, Unlocke etc etc... that changed his mind.

Yeah this would make sense too. So his initial shock was not over what he saw, but that he saw anything at all. But then there's also the case of his daughter who seems like she really did come back to life. She was able to give Eko a message from Yemi who she shouldn't known about.

And I also assume it was Claire not Aaron who was important as she seems so tied up with the island now. Her character has basically been absent for the last two seasons that there is bound to be a major revelation concerning her. Or else the writers just hate her.

I reckon it's the latter and that they would have killed her off ages ago except they needed to keep her around to resolve the Aaron story. Hence the reason she got last season off. I think the Jack connection was probably an attempt to create some importance for her.

Or I was also thinking that we may have an Omen type revalation in which it turns out Aaron is the second coming of Jacob. This could explain The Others testing on children etc.. as they were waiting for the second coming to arrive on the island.

I was thinking something like this too. Or what if Aaron is Jacob? lol. Am I the only one who thinks Claire's boyfriend, Thomas, looks a bit like him?

Alternatively, what if "Esau" is a bit like Vigo in Ghostbusters II and needs a baby to be reborn or something? Eeeeerrr, just an idea.

cooker3 wrote:

I'd guess they wanted Claire or at least a pregnant women to experiment on.

Yeah, simplest explanations are sometimes the best. But I'd be disappointed if that's all it was. The Others are starting to look like small fry in all this now. And I'm tired of Ben being revealed to be behind everything. I'm hoping the remaining mysteries will tie into the larger mystery of the island itself and what it is, rather than the machinations of the people on it.

uncleoswald

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah this would make sense too. So his initial shock was not over what he saw, but that he saw anything at all. But then there's also the case of his daughter who seems like she really did come back to life. She was able to give Eko a message from Yemi who she shouldn't known about.

True. I still think he was a fraud who just got caught up in something he didn't understand and maybe his daughter was the real "special" one. I also seem to remember reading that he was a candidate to be the original Sawyer and not Cooper so this would give creadence to the belief that he was a fraud.

I reckon it's the latter and that they would have killed her off ages ago except they needed to keep her around to resolve the Aaron story. Hence the reason she got last season off. I think the Jack connection was probably an attempt to create some importance for her.

Still think they would have killed her off though as they have been getting flack over not killing any of the original Losties for too long that if they had a spare one lying around I reckon they would have jumped at the chance.

I was thinking something like this too. Or what if Aaron is Jacob? lol. Am I the only one who thinks Claire's boyfriend, Thomas, looks a bit like him?

Yes, yes you are In fairness it would require great foresight on behalf of the casters.

Alternatively, what if "Esau" is a bit like Vigo in Ghostbusters II and needs a baby to be reborn or something?

Thats what I'm leaning towards, either for Esau or Jacob but probably Jacob since he was killed. Esau found a loop hole but so did Jacob.... Could all the people that Jacob visited before they got to the island be the ones who helped Claire/Aaron survive at some points?

No discussion of this episode can pass without mentioning the unveiling of Ethan as a bad'un, a great piece of casting.

cooker3

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, simplest explanations are sometimes the best. But I'd be disappointed if that's all it was. The Others are starting to look like small fry in all this now. And I'm tired of Ben being revealed to be behind everything. I'm hoping the remaining mysteries will tie into the larger mystery of the island itself and what it is, rather than the machinations of the people on it.

I agree. I feel that the island itself and "its powers" are something they need to cover in detail. They dedicated a lot of time to what the island can do and there hasn't been any pay-off. No overarching explanation for why the island can do certain things but not others other then it was convenient plot point for the writers.

I am hoping that with

Richard becoming a main character this season and Damon saying his backstory is quite long and complex that will encompass most of those island mysteries. I think it's near certain Richard was on the black rock so there is 150 years to fill!

I don't need an indepth scientific explanation. Just something which is somewhat coherent and sounds reasonable enough

uncleoswald wrote: »

No discussion of this episode can pass without mentioning the unveiling of Ethan as a bad'un, a great piece of casting.

Very true. It's 1 of the most memorable scenes from season 1 imo. So so creepy.

tok9

Great idea.. I'm getting the shakes from a lack of new lost!

It's pretty interesting that the director of this episode wanted the opening sequence with Locke and Claire in black and white also.

I've always been confused by the psychic since that Eko episode. He says that he is a fraud yet he has to see something to react like he did to Claire and continue to annoy her about the baby.

Both ways I'm not sure how Aaron will fit in with him being off the island.

Sad Professor

Another question:

Why did Claire abandon Aaron in the jungle in season 4?

I always took this as proof that there was something major wrong with Claire. She was glued to that baby for 4 seasons. Then she sees Christian in the jungle, drops the baby and runs off. Next time we see her she's sitting in the cabin looking like been she's smoking something.

What could "Un-Christian" have possibly done to her to make her to do this? From his interaction with Locke and others, he doesn't seem to have any great power over people, he's a manipulator mostly. Did somebody else get involved? Is it possible he told Claire something that made her think leaving the baby there was for the best? Was she possessed? Brainwashed? Killed?


He seems very interested in Aaron, doesn't he? Is this the interest of the real Christian upon seeing his grandson? Or is it Esau, with his own selfish interests in mind?

Kate later takes Aaron and they both end up back in the real world of course. Christian tells Locke that "the baby's where he's supposed to be, and that's not here". Taking the long view, this suggests he's not concerned about Malkin's warning that Claire be the only one to raise Aaron. In fact maybe he wants that terrible future that Malkin saw to happen. Or perhaps he's ignorant of all that, and his interest is in Claire.

Thoughts?

EKRIUQ

Just spotted this thread and a good idea, will try to find this episode from my "vault" and report back.

Chumpski

Sad Professor wrote: »

Another question:

Why did Claire abandon Aaron in the jungle in season 4?

I always took this as proof that there was something major wrong with Claire. She was glued to that baby for 4 seasons. Then she sees Christian in the jungle, drops the baby and runs off. Next time we see her she's sitting in the cabin looking like been she's smoking something.

What could "Un-Christian" have possibly done to her to make her to do this? From his interaction with Locke and others, he doesn't seem to have any great power over people, he's a manipulator mostly. Did somebody else get involved? Is it possible he told Claire something that made her think leaving the baby there was for the best? Was she possessed? Brainwashed? Killed?


He seems very interested in Aaron, doesn't he? Is this the interest of the real Christian upon seeing his grandson? Or is it Esau, with his own selfish interests in mind?

Kate later takes Aaron and they both end up back in the real world of course. Christian tells Locke that "the baby's where he's supposed to be, and that's not here". Taking the long view, this suggests he's not concerned about Malkin's warning that Claire be the only one to raise Aaron. In fact maybe he wants that terrible future that Malkin saw to happen. Or perhaps he's ignorant of all that, and his interest is in Claire.

Thoughts?

Theres a theory Claire was killed in Season 4 when the freighter soldiers attacked the Dharma camp. This is mainly since Miles was taking such an interest in her during the following episode. Maybe it wasnt Claire at all who left Aaron behind? (Great idea for a series of threads by the way, will look at this episode later.)

uncleoswald

Chumpski wrote: »

Theres a theory Claire was killed in Season 4 when the freighter soldiers attacked the Dharma camp. This is mainly since Miles was taking such an interest in her during the following episode. Maybe it wasnt Claire at all who left Aaron behind? (Great idea for a series of threads by the way, will look at this episode later.)

Nice theory but it only works if Claire doesn't know that she is dead as she is seen talking to Christian before she disappears and she is still very much Claire at this stage. She was acting weird though since the explosion. Also I had presumed it was Aaron that Miles was interested in and not Claire but perhaps...?

Back to the original episode, it has a prime example of one of the things that really bugs me about Lost. The group never seem to really discuss things in a way that is realistic, even in these early episodes that were more character driven. Sayid stumbles out of the jungle and says "we are not alone" and no one reacts in a way that I presume I would in a similar situation. In the next couple of episodes it is shown that people have talked to Sayid about it but it is never suggested that someone has sat him down and asked the millions of questions that anyone in the real world would. It is the same with countless episodes where some startling information is found out, just a few general questions (while the extras continue to wash their clothes or make their tent) usually followed by some cryptic answers and then everyone moves on.

Tragamin2k2

uncleoswald wrote: »

Nice theory but it only works if Claire doesn't know that she is dead as she is seen talking to Christian before she disappears and she is still very much Claire at this stage. She was acting weird though since the explosion. Also I had presumed it was Aaron that Miles was interested in and not Claire but perhaps...?

Back to the original episode, it has a prime example of one of the things that really bugs me about Lost. The group never seem to really discuss things in a way that is realistic, even in these early episodes that were more character driven. Sayid stumbles out of the jungle and says "we are not alone" and no one reacts in a way that I presume I would in a similar situation. In the next couple of episodes it is shown that people have talked to Sayid about it but it is never suggested that someone has sat him down and asked the millions of questions that anyone in the real world would. It is the same with countless episodes where some startling information is found out, just a few general questions (while the extras continue to wash their clothes or make their tent) usually followed by some cryptic answers and then everyone moves on.

I felt like given up in season 3 when mikhail was saying something like "i know you, and the john locke i know would never..." and sayid cut him off with "enough!". In reality youd be sayin "hey wait now what? whats all this?"

Wrecks me head when they do things like that

me-skywalker

the dreams sequence at the start with locke wearing the contact lenses scared teh bejaysus outta me but i think this scene has great meaning in the scheme of things! like him playing the cam and the whole light vrs dark theory..

Sad Professor

me-skywalker wrote: »

the dreams sequence at the start with locke wearing the contact lenses scared teh bejaysus outta me but i think this scene has great meaning in the scheme of things! like him playing the cam and the whole light vrs dark theory..

Yep, definitely.


Locke explains the game to Walt. Two sides: one light, one dark.


Jacob and Esau. Black and white. Their conflict is like a game. There are rules, but also loopholes.


Locke in Claire's dream. "[Aaron] was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now."



Adam and Eve, and the stones Jack found on them. What's the connection?

uncleoswald

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

I felt like given up in season 3 when mikhail was saying something like "i know you, and the john locke i know would never..." and sayid cut him off with "enough!". In reality youd be sayin "hey wait now what? whats all this?"

Wrecks me head when they do things like that

I remember that, infuriating! There was another bit when Claire things Rousseau kidnapped her to bring to the Others and instead of explaining what actually happened, that she had in fact rescued Claire, she just lets her think it.

And in no conversation with a member of the Others, and there are plenty of opportunities, does one of the Losties really question them on what the hell is going on, why they are there, how did they get to the island, why can't they leave etc...

Anyway, rant over.

I don't know if the black/white references are anything more then symbolic of conflict. And now its like a calling card of the show that they keep referencing, like the eye opening stuff.

skaramanga

My feeling on the Claire alive/dead question is that she is dead. As it would explain why she left Aaron and her behaviour in the cabin. In the same way Locke was "taken over" at the end of the last season I think the same reasoning can be used for Claire. Is that somebody else has now consumed her body. As to when she died? maybe when she met Christian something happened we do not get to see until this season. As it just doesn't make sense why she would give up her baby after talking to her auld lad?

me-skywalker

Since Episode 1 wen Jack went missing when getting chased through the forest and they asked him did he see the monster he said no! Then same happens with Locke when hunting for boar... and he says he never seen it. Then when Boone has his 'trippy' 'dream' Locke says 'is that what is showed you?'

Also if you notice the subtle hints with the clothes they waer.. Jack seems to wear black t-shirst while Locke waers white one.

just some small observations. But I think Jack and Locke since 1.1 or 1.2 have known alot more about wats going to happen.

cooker3

Yeah I did hear a similar theory re that scene in the forest. Jack goes off to whereever and returns much calmer so maybe he was killed without anyone knowing and esau or whatever replaced him. It would mean the writers kept there original plan to kill him off in the pilot after all.

I don't think it's true but I liked the idea.

Sad Professor

I always thought maybe Smokey "scanned" Jack in the forest, which would account for Jack's visions of his father. But that was before Christian started appearing in the cabin and taking picture frames off walls, etc.

I wonder if perhaps Jacob/Esau are a reflection of the Jack/Locke conflict to some extent, with Esau representing the fate side of the argument ("it always ends the same"), and Jacob representing the free will side ("You have a choice"). Locke has always been a bit of a fatalist tbh, and Jack was certainly gunning for free will in the s5 finale.

me-skywalker

in Flashes before your Eyes when Des goes back into his past/dream/thingy...
Hawking first mentions the course correcting and that theory.. (follow me with this gets messy or confusing)

then also throws in the whole if Des doesnt go to the Island they are all dead... BUT if it wasnt for the tear in Inmans haz suit then Des would never had the outburst which in turn caused the plane to crash?? (right)

then if it was their faith to crash was it in turn Des's only faith to be there when Inman decided to leave.. so to me it looks like Des is the most significant character in the whole complexity of why they are there?

me-skywalker

more slight observations... when it rains there always seems to be a big shift in direction of the main characters.

also now in season 4 seems Locke is wearing black tshirts now... along with jack.

annoyed with how blasse that Claire seems to be in Jacobs cabin with Christian that needs to be explained BIG time!! why the hell would everyone (whispers/island) be saying 'ooh Kate shouldnt raise her blah blah' but then who else would have Claire just legged it off and happy to leave her kid!!

when Ben goes to visit Widmore in his apartment he tells him that he changed the rules of the game... that killing family members? alos they both cant kill each other? why?

Tom being gay? forgot about that, was quite a minor surprise tbh.

me-skywalker

Team Good/White
jacob
locke
ben

Team Bad/Blacke
easu
jack
widmore


Tangibles's
Desmond
Richard

cooker3

me-skywalker wrote: »

when Ben goes to visit Widmore in his apartment he tells him that he changed the rules of the game... that killing family members? alos they both cant kill each other? why?

Same reason Jack wasn't allowed jump of the bridge in season 3 flashforward and Michael couldn't pull the trigger in his flashback in s4. The island wouldn't allow it. Now I am obviously just regressing the why question 1 step. Why is the island doing that? I doubt we will ever get a better explanation over it's what the island wanted. I am not sure how they could answer it really.