Paying with pennies

totallybaz

Hi guys,

Just a quick one for fun...

I've done some searching on the web about paying for an item with pennies... although discussion about it appears to cover foreign (mostly US) law. Some talk about the requirement to get the coins "rolled" at the bank, but others say this isn't legally necessary.

My question is; in Ireland is it legal to pay for something with 1 cent coins? Say, a clamping fee for example... hypothetically of course. :P
I found the Irish Coinage Act 1950 online but can't find a reference to it. Also, has this act been superceded by a European Act?

An example of doing this is here

Thanks in advance,

Baz

cormie

To the best of my knowledge, somebody can refuse to offer to sell you goods/service if you are paying with over 50 coins. Whether or not this is the same for somebody you actually OWE money to like a clamper, I'm not sure.

The Monkey Pump

Legal tender is variously defined in different jurisdictions. Formally, it is anything which when offered in payment extinguishes the debt. Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender. The law does not relieve the debt until payment is accepted. Coins and notes are usually defined as legal tender. Some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict payment made other than by legal tender. For example, such a law might outlaw the use of foreign coins and bank notes, or require a license to perform financial transactions in a foreign currency.
In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers can reject large banknotes — this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat. However, restaurants that do not collect payment until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.
The right, in many jurisdictions, of a trader to refuse to do business with any person means a purchaser cannot demand to make a purchase, and so declaring a legal tender in law, as anything other than an offered payment for debts already incurred, would not be effective.



It would seem that, in this situation, as the clamp is already in place legal tender must be accepted when offered.

totallybaz

That's brill. Thanks guys. Very quick responses.

Reloc8

Excellent question...yes I am a nerd...there is definitly an amount of copper and an amount of silver above which is not legal tender and therefore need not be accepted as money or money's worth - it referred to punts but will have crossed over (probably at least) with the euro legislation. Can't for the life of me remember the Act but if I think of it I'll revert.

dermot_sheehan

Legal tender in eurozone is 50 coins and unlimited in banknotes (regulation 974/98 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1998:139:0001:0005:EN:PDF)

cormie

gabhain7 wrote: »

Legal tender in eurozone is 50 coins and unlimited in banknotes (regulation 974/98 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1998:139:0001:0005:EN:PDF)

I thought that was it alright. So when you say "legal tender is" does that mean anything above 50 coins is not deemed legal tender I wonder, so a clamping company could demand notes after accepting 50 of the coins?

dermot_sheehan

Remember all that legal tender does is act as a defence in legal proceedings.

So let's say you had a meal and you offered to pay for it in bank notes and up to 50 coins and the restaurant refused to accept. You can safely walk away knowing that if the restaurant tried to sue you, you'd have a complete defence of tender.

With clamping its slightly more complicated. If you offered in notes and up to 50 coins, and they didn't accept, they technically could not sue you for the money owed. However if you sued them for not removing the clamp, technically the fact you offered legal tender ought not help you.

A judge would give very short shrift to this argument and probably interpet the local government (immobilization) of vehciles act or any contract that the clamping company says you entered (see clamping thread) as permitting payment in legal tender.