Best routine for strength training?

BusterHighman

Well I was sent here by a personal trainer, redirected from here to T-Nation by reading someone else's post as thats 'supposedly' the place to ask about routines and after being sorely disappointed have arrived back, post in hand.

Feel free to read only the last paragraph if you're wondering what my question is.So I'm one of those people who has been doing weights for years but doing pretty much the same exercises at almost the same weight so not far off a beginner. Time to say enough is enough and really get cracking on some real weightlifting.

I'm 24, 5'11 and 94kgs. My current routine looks like this with 12,10,10,8 reps of each with 2 days on,1 off, 2 on, 2 off:
1,3
Bench Flat(s)80,90,100
Bench Incline(s)70,80,90
Bench Decline(s)70,80,90
Chest Flies(m)80,90,100
Biceps curls(b) 50,55,60
Triceps extensions(b) 50,55,60
Chin ups 1X10

2,4
Shoulder Press(b) 70,75,80
Upright Row(b) 60,70,75
Shrugs(b) 70,80,90
Biceps Curls(b) 50,55,60
Triceps extensions(b) 50,55,60
Chin ups 1X10
(b barbell,s smith, m machine)

Generally I'd throw in a limited amount of very basic stuff for forearms and abdomen and sprint for about 10 mins total for warm up/cool down. Stuck in a college gym with no power rack so non smith squats are out. Last 1rm deadlift was 190 but haven't done them in a while.

I'm also kind of confused as to whether high weight low rep offers the same size gains as low weight high rep(always thought it the latter).

Currently the diet is almost solely brown bread sandwiches(meat/cheese/coleslaw), chicken rolls(white) and college breakfasts(lots of scrambled egg). I'd drink once a week(~25 units which aint too bad...I'm Irish),creatine for a week out of a month and get around 5-6 hours sleep a night with a few naps thrown in for good measure.

So my goals are to gain strength#1 >size#2 >definition#3 in that order and am wondering what the most suitable routine(I have been looking at WSFSB/5-3-1/5X5s and to be honest cant decide what is the best to use) would be. Oh and sorry to be backwards but all weights are in kgs. After reading through 10 pages on 5-3-1 it looks like the best fit but I'd still be very interested to hear everyones suggestions.

O.P.H

In my opinion -

You need to improve your diet, read stickies. This is a lazy answer but all the info ya need is there.

You do no leg work at all. The serious lifters here will say thats a major downfall to your routine. If ya dont work on your lower body equally as well as your upper body you wont make gains.

For your lack of progression maybe start some linear program the way its done in starting strength. Like do 5 x 5 sets (or any other rep x set range) using same weight for ever sets, starting with a weight you can handle then every week add weight to this like 2 kg and when you hit a wall deload your weight a bit and start again. Should make a difference. Also changing exercises helps progression.

As for heavy weight low reps or lighter weights more reps. I think its generally accepted that the heavier the weight the better the size gains, so reps between 5 to 8 kinda thing would be best I think.

Dont forget to work on all areas of your body - chest, back, shoulders, legs, to a lesser degree arms. Your workout is far to concentrated to your chest and arms and this will not allow you to advance. Start squatin and deadliftin.

mloc

It looks like nearly all chest and arms. Three different chest presses, bicep curls every day but no deadlifts, squats, bent over rows etc.

I'd think about trying to even it out a bit more. A lot more.

squod

I read somewhere Ryan Kennelly took up squats and deads to increase his bench press performance. Using a smith machine in your workouts isn't gonna help either IMO. Have you considered changing gym?

BusterHighman

Cheers for the tips folks. The diet certainly needs work, I'm going to try and find a way to get some oatmeal in for starters. Then adding the likes of low fat milk and non salted nuts. Also have to break the habit of 3-4 large meals to ~6 smaller ones and really need to up my water intake too.

Unfortunately a change of gym isn't a possibility, fitting time in to go can be a bit tricky already. I have a commute of 2-3 hours(total) to college and until last week was in 9-6 5 days a week. For anyone who hasn't guessed it I'm using the DCU gym so those squats will have to be in a smith unfortunatley. I'm wondering actually how much I'm losing out on doing the chest stuff in a smith too as its just so handy with the weights close to hand and I'm under the impression the main benches don't decline.

Well I spent a lot of time I was supposed to be doing assignments:p putting your suggestions to good use and I came up with this(2on/1off/2on/2off):

Military Press(5-3-1 system)
Upright Rows: 4 sets of 10 reps
Shrug : 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Barbell Curls: 4 sets of 10 reps
Rear Laterals Fly– 4 sets of 10-15 reps

Deadlift(5-3-1 system)
Deadlift - 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Chins: 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Lat Pulls – 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Bent Over Rows – 4 sets of 15 reps/arm

Bench Press(5-3-1 system)
Incline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Decline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Chest Fly's: 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Extensions/pushdown/Dip–4sets of 10-20 reps

Squat(5-3-1 system)
Leg Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Curls – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups – 4 sets of 10 reps
Core 4X10-20

Got a nice calculator for the 5-3-1 part and then tried to work out the most suitable accompanying exercises. If anyone has any improvements to replace any I've mentioned I'd be really interested to hear. Also for the bent over rows I was considering using the machine(gasp I know) as I hear its better at isolating the muscles and allowing for 'perfect' technique as you cant jerk up the weight.

BossArky

BusterHighman wrote: »

Cheers for the tips folks. The diet certainly needs work, I'm going to try and find a way to get some oatmeal in for starters. Then adding the likes of low fat milk and non salted nuts. Also have to break the habit of 3-4 large meals to ~6 smaller ones and really need to up my water intake too.

Unfortunately a change of gym isn't a possibility, fitting time in to go can be a bit tricky already. I have a commute of 2-3 hours(total) to college and until last week was in 9-6 5 days a week. For anyone who hasn't guessed it I'm using the DCU gym so those squats will have to be in a smith unfortunatley. I'm wondering actually how much I'm losing out on doing the chest stuff in a smith too as its just so handy with the weights close to hand and I'm under the impression the main benches don't decline.

Well I spent a lot of time I was supposed to be doing assignments:p putting your suggestions to good use and I came up with this(2on/1off/2on/2off):

Military Press(5-3-1 system)
Upright Rows: 4 sets of 10 reps
Shrug : 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Barbell Curls: 4 sets of 10 reps
Rear Laterals Fly– 4 sets of 10-15 reps

Deadlift(5-3-1 system)
Deadlift - 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Chins: 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Lat Pulls – 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Bent Over Rows – 4 sets of 15 reps/arm

Bench Press(5-3-1 system)
Incline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Decline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Chest Fly's: 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Extensions/pushdown/Dip–4sets of 10-20 reps

Squat(5-3-1 system)
Leg Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Curls – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups – 4 sets of 10 reps
Core 4X10-20

Got a nice calculator for the 5-3-1 part and then tried to work out the most suitable accompanying exercises. If anyone has any improvements to replace any I've mentioned I'd be really interested to hear. Also for the bent over rows I was considering using the machine(gasp I know) as I hear its better at isolating the muscles and allowing for 'perfect' technique as you cant jerk up the weight.

If you are doing the deadlift heavy enough your grip may be shot when it comes to the chins.

My 531 is:

- Military & Chins
- Deadlift
- Bench & Pull Ups
- Squat

The chins/pull ups compliment the pressing of military/bench. The deadlift and squat need a day on their own with some minor assistance. See my log for more details of what I do there.

mloc

BusterHighman wrote: »

Also for the bent over rows I was considering using the machine(gasp I know) as I hear its better at isolating the muscles and allowing for 'perfect' technique as you cant jerk up the weight.

What kind of machine? TBH I would just do it with an olympic barbell, wide grip and bent as close to 90 degrees as you can whilst maintaining an adequate arch in your back. Just be disciplined with regards to technique; its a heavy compound movement but make the most of it. Full range of motion, extend all the way down and then row back up towards your abdomen. Most common mistakes are:

a) not bending enough
b) arching back forwards at lumbar spine
c) poor range of motion
d) pulling bar to chest instead of abdomen

O.P.H

mloc wrote: »

What kind of machine? TBH I would just do it with an olympic barbell, wide grip and bent as close to 90 degrees as you can whilst maintaining an adequate arch in your back. Just be disciplined with regards to technique; its a heavy compound movement but make the most of it. Full range of motion, extend all the way down and then row back up towards your abdomen. Most common mistakes are:

a) not bending enough
b) arching back forwards at lumbar spine
c) poor range of motion
d) pulling bar to chest instead of abdomen

Mloc I think you are describing Pendlay Rows not Bent Over Rows. I like both but I think I prefer Bent Over Rows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeCh2Anpw8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WlrqFKJCEY

If you were to pick a single compound back exercise apart from deadlift and pull ups or pull downs, what would it be, anyone?

squod

O.P.H wrote: »

If you were to pick a single compound back exercise apart from deadlift and pull ups or pull downs, what would it be, anyone?

This is where I get to go on about T-bar rows. Remember small diameter plates, close grip cable attachment, back near paralel to the floor & legs slightly bent.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/LVCloseGripTBarRow.html

thebiggestjim

Do This, strength gain is guaranteed

http://www.vicjg.com/aspx/madcowint.aspx

One piece of advice, Eat BIG

BusterHighman

BossArky you're actually spot on about the grip, just remembering I was forever dropping the barbell on my deadlifts once they got over 180ish. I got straps but I guess they'd be a bad idea for chins. I have started doing farmers walks between weights that don't really rely on grip too much so hopefully they'll pay off in time. Also swapped off those chins as suggested.

Mloc it's primarily in the execution, if I'm about to fail I'll hoist the weight up with a jerk instead of a fluid motion. Actually I do something similar with the military press where if my shoulders are spent I'll use the momentum from my legs after the barbell coming back down to bounce it part of the way back up ala 'cheating'. I know I should be working primarily with technique but for example if I haven't eaten or had a bad sleep the night before I don't like to adjust the weights I should be doing to compensate for that as it makes the work out feel less significant.

Thebiggest gym that is an awesome calculator/system, did you make it? I have only recently started doing 'proper' leg exercises so don't think I'd be able for that amount of squats vs recovery time but give it a month or two and hopefully I'll be there. Well this is probably to be followed by shock and awe and possibly disgust:p but my leg day this week was the first day I have ever done squats and I've been doing weights A LONG TIME. However eating big is definitely something I'm working on, sat through a lecture yesterday nursing 2 litres of low fat milk, got some looks alright but I assume those people just really wanted some of my milk.