Alcohol Free beer for Kids-Bad parenting?

damonjewel

I have recently been on holiday in Germany to visit some relatives. At the dinner table I was shocked to see their 10 year old boy drinking alcohol free beer. Personally I thought it was wrong, thinking that it was the wrong road to be setting him off on as he´d be a hop skip and a jump away from the real deal.

However on reflection maybe it would encourage a sensible attitude to drinking, as he only drank half a beer with his dinner, also his parents are certainly not heavy drinkers, and only drank 2 or 3 beers\wine that evening with their meal. Yet I feel my initial instincts are right that this is wrong. I´d be interested to read your opinions.

Wook

agreed 10 years old is below the age i would expose my child to alcohol related drinks, do keep in mind though that on the continent we have a different approach of letting young people have some drinks compared to Ireland. there is a lot of people who actualy do 'social drinking' (thats without ending up on the street having blackouts and becoming pregnant after a night of drinks ).

Before anyone goes on a rant and thinks im attacking the Irish pint chuggers, yes yes we also have people that drink too much.

but 10 years old , too young in my book

Ludo

Dunno to be honest. 10 seems a bit young alright. Then again nearly all families I know on the continent give there children (over 15 year olds generally though but under 18) some wine with their meals from time to time. Not saying everyone does this but it does seem common enough from what I have seen. Here you would be condemned for doing that.

Then look at the Irish/British atitude to drink, and compare it to the continental attitude. Maybe there is something to be said for a responsible and controlled introduction to alcohol in a family meal environment.

January

In France you'd get a glass of wine with your dinner at that age! I don't think it's setting a bad example. Whatever works for that family iykwim? If they think it will instill a sense of security about drinking in him then so be it. Doesn't mean you should be giving your ten year old alcohol free beer with their dinner, unless you want to!!

I've a long way to go before I even think about how to handle drinking alcohol with my daughter. Hopefully I'll handle it well!

DubDani

Was it real alcohol free beer, like for example Becks or was it the so called "Dunkelbier"?

Dunkelbier is quite a common drink in germany, and not seen as an "alcoholic" drink and mostly consumed by kids. Even though it is called Bier it is officially labelled as a Soft Drink (Erfrischungsgetraenk) that is made from Malt.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

I loved that as a young kid, but these days it's far too sweet for my liking.

silja

I think it's not wrong, though I probably wouldn't do it myselfI grew up in Switzerland and got a glass of watered wine with Sunday dinner from about that age- made me feel very grown up! I also got to drink the froth off my dad's beer from about 6 years old, but that was not often, maybe once or twice a week. I think early, controlled drinking with parents probably leads to less problems later than the very late official drinking they have where I now live (USA), where I don't know a single person who grew up here and didn't drink illegally before age 21.

I don't drink now btw, don't like the taste.

damonjewel

DubDani wrote: »

Was it real alcohol free beer, like for example Becks or was it the so called "Dunkelbier"?

Dunkelbier is quite a common drink in germany, and not seen as an "alcoholic" drink and mostly consumed by kids. Even though it is called Bier it is officially labelled as a Soft Drink (Erfrischungsgetraenk) that is made from Malt.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

I loved that as a young kid, but these days it's far too sweet for my liking.

Kulmbacher pils alkohol frei which tastes and looks like the real thing.

I remember in Ireland you could get cans of shandy which had a minimal amount of alcohol in it, I´m sure most boardsies that are 30 plus would remember it too. I also remember my parents dissapproving if I asked for it when we were out shopping. However shandy was sweet and nothing like real beer unlike alcohol free beers.

CDfm

When I was growing up there was a Shandy drink for kids and it tasted great.
Are you sure this isnt a pretend thing as alcohol free beer mostly tastes foul and that he will grow out of.

It wouldnt worry me at all - in a few years he will be experimenting with his mates so lets see the parents attitude then.

ebmma

If anything, I think it would discourage underage drinking. Because there's none of that 'forbidden fruit' and feeling 'cool'. Alcohol is just alcohol.

noby

I agree that it takes the mystery away from alcohol.
Kids in their early teens are drinking alcohol, so ten probably isn't too young to start introducing them, occasionally. My eldest two aren't near that age yet, but we give them a taste of wine or beer if they ask.

CDfm

ebmma wrote: »

If anything, I think it would discourage underage drinking. Because there's none of that 'forbidden fruit' and feeling 'cool'. Alcohol is just alcohol.

My daughter at 15 was hanging around with a few older girls.She got drunk last New Year at a party.

After trying various things I laid on some cider and told her to take it handy but help herself when she wanted. She has given it up.Now it may not work for everyone but it lost its glamour -esp when one of her older friends drank her stash.

Its a balancing act but while I was not going to encourage her I wanted her in a safe environment when drinking.

I got to do the cool Dad thing too.

Wantobe

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0912/1224254369374.html

See the above article from the Irish Times that I read recently- the basic tenet that being the permissive parent thinking giving your underage children a drink demystifies alcohol is naive and can lead to excessive drinking/addiction.

eviltwin

It may be alcohol free but it still looks and tastes like alcohol and if the child gets a taste for it its only a matter of time before they graduate to the real thing

ebmma

Ok, I didn't think anyone was talking about encouragement or just plane opening the drinks cabinet and 'here you go'.

I think reasonable explanation of effects of drinks should be given.

I don't understand why 'all or nothing' approach. It seems that you either make a devil out of alcohol or giggle with your kids when they are walking out with a bottle of vodka.

Reasonable middle ground, anyone?

loyatemu

the times had an article on this recently; re: parents who allow their teenagers to drink in moderation at home and who may think they are introducing them to alcohol in a responsible manner...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0912/1224254369374.html

Wantobe

One of the points made in the article I linked to was that the difference between countries such as France/Italy and Ireland is the culture around drinking. Half of my family is French- and I find the French teenagers to have a very different consumption of alcohol to the Irish. French teenagers and people in their twenties in general tend more to go out in the evenings to meet their friends, have a coffee and a chat. They might have a beer and unusually two. More often it's a coffee/tea. They will meet for a meal or a pizza- and not go to a pub. In the thirties social life tends to revolve around meals/family and friends for dinner.

It's time we made that cultural shift here too. To my mind banning the consumption of alcohol at all in conjunction with driving is a step in the right direction.

The Corinthian

Ludo wrote: »

Then look at the Irish/British atitude to drink, and compare it to the continental attitude. Maybe there is something to be said for a responsible and controlled introduction to alcohol in a family meal environment.

Ultimately I think it comes down to this. I had my first glass of wine at seven - in reality it was a drop of wine in a glass of water, barely colouring it. As such I grew up with the idea that wine was something you drink with meals, and so the connection between alcohol and food has remained for me.

Of course, I also grew up in Ireland for most of my childhood and adolescence. One's introduction to alcohol there is all about getting drunk. You don't eat with your drink. I know Irishmen who at 40 years of age who still retain the feeling that drinking is to get drunk.

So having experienced both introductions to alcohol, I can say without doubt that the later, Irish, experience was far less positive.

Additionally, I find that alcohol socially cripples the Irish and British - without Dutch courage, romantic interaction seems to be very limited in comparison to much of continental Europe (although that is changing). Sometimes I wonder whether the easiest way to commit genocide in Ireland would be to simply introduce prohibition.

So personally, I feel that it is not important what age one starts, but what one learns where it comes to alcohol.

Hellrazer

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ultimately I think it comes down to this. I had my first glass of wine at seven - in reality it was a drop of wine in a glass of water, barely colouring it. As such I grew up with the idea that wine was something you drink with meals, and so the connection between alcohol and food has remained for me.

We give our 11 year old a glass of wine with her meals on special occasions.When I say glass its exactly like you say--a tiny bit of wine with white lemonade.The idea is exactly as you say--to try and change her views of alcohol and that its not all about getting drunk.

Of course, I also grew up in Ireland for most of my childhood and adolescence. One's introduction to alcohol there is all about getting drunk.

Same here--as soon as I was old enough to get served I went a bit nuts.And when I say nuts I mean drinking 5/6 nights a week at 17/18 just to get drunk.Thats wrong for any 17/18 year old.

So having experienced both introductions to alcohol, I can say without doubt that the later, Irish, experience was far less positive.

+1
Even down to this thing with the lower alcohol limits.It just shows the mentality of the Irish and drink.

Monkey61

I was glad to see that article, which backs up my views on underage drinking in the home.

Obviously this is just my own individual case and possibly not representative of the majority and I have posted this somewhere before but here goes again.

I grew up in a house where I was given a little glass of wine, or sherry (thanks Granny) at Christmas, people's birthdays and other celebrations. Thus I grew up associating alcohol as this magical substance that made people happy and lovely and associating it also with celebration and togetherness. At 15, my mother would let me have one or two cans before I went out to the disco.

Did I grow up with a responsible attitude to drinking? No. I moved onto vodka, gin, anything I could get my hands on. I cannot even count the amount of times I have blacked out, thrown up or done something really, really stupid under the influence of alcohol. I have ruined friendships, messed up my chances with girls that I really liked and caused numerous injuries to myself. And do you know what? Despite of all this I still associate alcohol with all those lovely things that I did when I was a child.

Until society's attitude towards alcohol changes I can't see the majority of Irish teenagers growing up with any kind of responsible attitude towards drinking. I am not sure what role parents can play in this because the influence of peers is going to win out 99% of the time.

When I one day have children, I am not sure what I am going to do to be honest. I will probably have stopped drinking myself but I am not sure how I will foster a healthy attitude within them when all around them they will see the positive associations of booze. It is a thinker alright.

The Corinthian

Monkey61 wrote: »

I was glad to see that article, which backs up my views on underage drinking in the home.

The article was a bit sensational and a little light on specific evidence. There is a World of difference, IMHO, in giving a child a watered down glass of wine at meals and introducing them to 'Dutch courage'.

At 15, my mother would let me have one or two cans before I went out to the disco.

This, I would feel, is where the mistake was made. I grew up associating alcohol with meals (and perhaps special occasions) alone. Also no one got drunk when drinking. The association with getting drunk or 'Dutch courage' was never encouraged (as the latter would have been with your own experience) at home, and I was only introduced to that by peers in my mid to late teens.

However, simply suggesting that introducing a child to alcohol at an early age will give them a healthy attitude towards it in later life is false too. When a child is introduced to alcohol, there is a lesson to be learned and if that lesson is that alcohol is for 'Dutch courage' or simply to get drunk, then you probably are better off keeping them away from it.

This is further complicated by Irish culture, because alcohol is so connected to binge drinking and Dutch courage there, that early introduction could lead to problems later as teenagers, already familiar (even with healthy associations) with alcohol, are taught the 'wrong' lessons by their peers.

So, upon reflection, I'm not sure that the 'continental approach' could work as well in a culture such as the one in Ireland or UK.

Of course, speaking for myself, I was fortunate in that I was brought up with the notion that Dutch courage was for the weak, and so this definitely contributed to not going overboard (at least until I was in my twenties ).

pickarooney

I just find it a bit strange that a 10 year-old would like the taste of beer. Apart from that, he's not being given alcohol so I think everything else said in this thread is largely irrelevant.

ebmma

pickarooney wrote: »

I just find it a bit strange that a 10 year-old would like the taste of beer. Apart from that, he's not being given alcohol so I think everything else said in this thread is largely irrelevant.

I've read somewhere before that if a child seems to actually like the taste of beer it can be a sign of group B vitamins deficiency.

edit: I suspect the middle ground might be the key...Making a devil out of alcohol is not good - eventually a kid is going to try something and realise that it can be quite fun and he is not instantly dead from some horrible liver disease. Or will meet some person who can obviously enjoy alcohol from time to time but is a properly functional member of society. So parents will come across as liars and that's not good..

CDfm

pickarooney wrote: »

I just find it a bit strange that a 10 year-old would like the taste of beer. Apart from that, he's not being given alcohol so I think everything else said in this thread is largely irrelevant.

They do it because its an adult thing and children copy

ebmma

CDfm wrote: »

They do it because its an adult thing and children copy

Coffee is an adult thing to do too. My 9 year old niece tried drinking some and nearly got sick it tasted so vile to her

CDfm

ebmma wrote: »

Coffee is an adult thing to do too. My 9 year old niece tried drinking some and nearly got sick it tasted so vile to her

i have been drinking black coffee since i was 9 - she probably doesnt want to be grown up hard enough:p

Nevyn

Mine know I love my coffee and I have told them both no not until they are 16 and explained the effect of caffine and other stimulants on the heart and why they are too young to have them. Yes they asked about decaff and I still told them no.

CDfm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Mine know I love my coffee and I have told them both no not until they are 16 and explained the effect of caffine and other stimulants on the heart and why they are too young to have them. Yes they asked about decaff and I still told them no.

Very wise - now what have you told them about booze- this is mummys stash

miss no stars

I'm raised by two Irish parents, both of whom were raised by Irish parents.

They would give me wine from time to time with meals, usually the Sunday roast or something like that. Before I was old enough for a little drop of wine, I'd get grape juice. Message: Sometimes you have a nice drink you don't usually have with a nice meal. Nobody had more drinks after the meal unless it was christmas and people might have one more glass or a bottle of stout.

I look at my peers on a night out and I'm horrified. They're then the people who turn around and say "ah ya can't give kids any alcohol". EMMM letssee who's the one that's after falling into a puddle of godknowswhat in the nightclub? It's so bad I've stopped going out with them. I don't want to be a babysitter.

Now tell me that giving a kid alcohol (or mock alcohol) does any harm that not giving it to them does!

Irish attitudes to alcohol are awful. They need to change and because Irish people are SO irresponsible, (and I say this as a 21 year old), under 25s should be limited to 1 drink per hour in a pub/club and half a bottle of wine/2 beers per main course and a sweet wine with dessert or an apperetif.

Difficult to police and would wreck income so would never happen. Another nice idea would be to get rid of 2 euro drinks. It shouldn't be possible to get hammered on a tenner!


On the topic of the mock beer for a ten year old, I used to get that stuff and so did my brother. Is it not better to have a ten year old, behaving like a ten year old and trying to immitate the big men drinking beer and let him get it out of his system at TEN than to have a teenager drinking real beer in a field trying to act like big men and getting sh!tfaced?

dvpower

damonjewel wrote: »

I remember in Ireland you could get cans of shandy which had a minimal amount of alcohol in it, I´m sure most boardsies that are 30 plus would remember it too. I also remember my parents dissapproving if I asked for it when we were out shopping. However shandy was sweet and nothing like real beer unlike alcohol free beers.

That's brought back a lost memory.
I remember having a discussion with friends about how many shandys it would take to get you drunk (was never resolved, but figured out a few years later that a 2L of Linden Village would do the trick)

hitlersson666

CDfm wrote: »

My daughter at 15 was hanging around with a few older girls.She got drunk last New Year at a party.

After trying various things I laid on some cider and told her to take it handy but help herself when she wanted. She has given it up.Now it may not work for everyone but it lost its glamour -esp when one of her older friends drank her stash.

Its a balancing act but while I was not going to encourage her I wanted her in a safe environment when drinking.

I got to do the cool Dad thing too.

will you adopt me???? please

CDfm

hitlersson666 wrote: »

will you adopt me???? please

not with a teenage daughter in the shop

but parents should be a little more forgiving as they were kids once too

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Don't see a problem what so ever with giving a child of any age alcohol free beer. The problem I would have is that most children wouldn't like the taste.

You also have to factor in the differant cultures, it's not uncommon to find a vending machine in the workplace in Germany, why? Because they don't have a problem with alcohol like the Irish and British do. Plenty of people on the continent have a beer with their lunch or dinner, do that here and you're an alcoholic.

I think sometimes parents shelter their children too much, which, in my opinion and experience, can be very bad too.

Nevyn

I think it depends on the age of the child and also most alcohol "free" beer does have alcohol in it but just a very reduced ammount.

di11on

Personal take on this is that your kids are going to be way more influenced by your attitude to drink and what they see you doing than by whether or not you give them alcohol free beer.

If they see alcohol as a taboo free part of everyday life, being consumed sensibly at the dinner table, then I really think there is no harm at all in letting a 15 year old have a glass of wine.

However, if they see you downing pints and drinking half a bottle of wine with your dinner, then I don't think it really matters what you give them with their dinner. Likewise, if alcohol is strictly taboo in the house, it's probably likely to be just as bad, when it comes to their perception of what is normal.

cynder

i remember when i was younger than 8 buying cans of shandy in the local shops. i would even give my kids shandy. had my first can when i was 13 (only 1 can allowed here and there) glass of wine at 16. and guess what i very rarely drink. i was out the other night first time since november and had 5 tia maria's and milk. i dont drink in the house didnt even have a glass of wine over x mas and sometimes when i do go out i dont drink at all - in fact i dont like the taste ( i do like tia-maria). i got drunk once in the last 10 years and that was on my hen night.

when mine turn into teenagers i will probably give them a glass here and there and will teach them to respect it and not use it to get drunk. my eldest is diabetic so she cant drink(get drunk) anyways but a glass here and there wont do any harm.

CrazyRabbit

I drank very excessively as a young teen. It was forbidden and hence very attractive to a rebellious teenager.

I wish I had been given a better, more responsible introduction to alcohol!

Cabaal

damonjewel wrote: »

I remember in Ireland you could get cans of shandy which had a minimal amount of alcohol in it, I´m sure most boardsies that are 30 plus would remember it too. I also remember my parents dissapproving if I asked for it when we were out shopping. However shandy was sweet and nothing like real beer unlike alcohol free beers.

Yeah remember those, Club Shandy

Crea

A young persons attitude to alcohol is most likely developed by seeing how the people around them treat alcohol. If they see Mum and Dad polishing off a bottle of wine with Sunday lunch and getting a bit tipsy, or going to a Christening/wedding/communion and all the adults getting sloshed then they will learn that you drink alcohol to get drunk. They will learn moderation from their parents having ONE glass of wine with dinner and then putting the bottle away or having 1 beer in the pub watching the match and coming home sober.
Then their binge drinking friends will undo all your good work:p

cynder

very true, im 29 with 3 kids and when im out (very rare) my friends say here have another, have another. i say no, you can line them up in front of me and i will leave them there.

no only do 15 year olds do it but 30+ do it as well. you have to have a very strong stance to say no. i like being the odd one out and saying no. i laugh at them when they get drunk and be thankful i am not the one with the hangover the next day or the one still over the drink drive limit the next day.

parsi

DubDani wrote: »

Was it real alcohol free beer, like for example Becks or was it the so called "Dunkelbier"?

Dunkelbier is quite a common drink in germany, and not seen as an "alcoholic" drink and mostly consumed by kids..

Or it could be the real McCoy (which is tasty ) - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkelbier

LegacyUser

When I was a young kid we always had root beer and root beer floats, we drank it from beer mugs, with a big foamy heads. It was a novelty and we enjoyed sitting at the table with the adults drinking 'beers' with them. And we enjoyed kiddie cocktails too. My grandpa always gave me the first sip when I brought him a can (Hamm's or Old Style!) and even though I liked the taste the carbonation burned my throat so I always went cheerfully back to the kid stuff. When I was old enough to appreciate the difference between soda and beer (13?) they gave me the occasional small glass. My dad and granddad both were dedicated beer drinkers and enjoyed it as a hobby, and taught me that whether good or bad, habits are habits and something you should strive to control.

When I was in my mid-teens, my friends would steal a beer from their dad's fridge and sneak out behind the garage to pass it around. I said no thanks, thats cheap beer and whats the big deal anyway.

I live in Germany now, partly for work and partly for the beer as I'm an aficionado now.