How to save 1.3b through reform?

MaceFace

Yesterdays Indo said that Cowen may not impose pay cuts as it may be possible to achieve the savings through reform and efficiencies. How is this possible?

Also, why were these reforms and efficiencies not brought in before now?

I just don't understand how this is possible.

Please none of the usual PS bashing - try keep it honest and fair.

efb

Start with the doubling over of HSE/Health Boards admin Staff.
Have central "Shared Services" units for all of the PS, HR, Property, Procurement, IR etc...

FlutterinBantam

In my opinion it cannot be done.

In my opinion no amount of "reform" whilst leaving pay ,conditions,and numbers the same can achieve such savings in the time allowed.

In my opinion the only way to get our economy back on track is

Cut public service pay
Cut public service numbers to what can be afforded.
= Cut the cost of public service.

There is no use "worrying" about the private sector, normal commercial activities will see to it that only those businesses which are commercially viable will survive.Increasing taxes will be counter productive and only serve to entrench lack of spending.

In my opinion given the timescale involved, the severity of the crisis,and the amounts involved, to even start a process involving "reform" would be madness.


Get on with it Mr Lenihan

NewDubliner

MaceFace wrote: »

Yesterdays Indo said that Cowen may not impose pay cuts as it may be possible to achieve the savings through reform and efficiencies. How is this possible?

300m spent to date on bulidings for the 'decentralisation' project, another 700m budgeted. Unknown cosst for fit-outs and productivity losses as expensively trained experts are discarded. The project has not been abandoned, just deferred (until the next election). Its abandonment and the shedding of the extra staff hired to fill offices in Offaly and elsewhere would save quite a bit.

Re-centralising in Dublin, will greatly enhance staff mobility between departments.

Abolition of the Official Languages Act, which requires all services to be provided in Irish.

There's probably more stuff we don't need.

who_ru

this is cowan admitting he has no balls and that he is not prepared to take on the PS Unions, in the mould of his predecessor Ahern. this is the Govt abdicating it's responsibilty, not wanting to govern, ensuring the country is mired in recession far longer than it needs be. this is what you get when you elect a bunch of weak willed cowards - who also just happen to be the highest paid politicians in the western world. this is ireland going down the tubes.

ParkRunner

It looks like the 1.3bn will be saved through a combination of reform, pay cuts and pension changes. I imagine the lump sum pension payment will be taxed from December for a start.

Reform has been happening for the last few months through reducing costs on things like newpapers, meetings, taxis, telephone contracts, postal arrangements, energy efficiencies, staff transfers to social welfare. Probably not huge savings individually but if reflected across the whole PS it will all add up.

PMDS is starting to be taken a lot more seriously too where I am too with increments being refused for poor performance or lengthty sick leave and this is very much welcomed!

I imagine the base pay for PS workers will be left untouched (apart from at the higher scales) and more cuts will be made in overtime and allowances.

gurramok

Thing is, lets say they did find this 1.3bn this year as outlined above. What about finding €4bn savings per year till 2013 in both PS pay and welfare?

Where else can they find these sums?? (yeh HSE admins should be severly targeted)

Its only a small stepping stone. Also, would love to know where the other €2.7bn savings is coming from this yr...all welfare??

ceret

A lot of 'reform' might be things like reducing the benefit that people get for working Sundays, or cutting the amount of holidays, etc. These are things that don't affect the 'base pay' of many workers, but many workers are relying on it, and they would also see it as a pay cut. They may even strike to get the perks back.

So although one could say "We reforming, we're not doing paycuts", it's quite possible that to the workers, it's basically a pay cut.

ParkRunner

gurramok wrote: »

Thing is, lets say they did find this 1.3bn this year as outlined above. What about finding €4bn savings per year till 2013 in both PS pay and welfare?

Where else can they find these sums?? (yeh HSE admins should be severly targeted)

Its only a small stepping stone. Also, would love to know where the other €2.7bn savings is coming from this yr...all welfare??

1/3 from public sector cuts, 1/3 from capital expenditure cuts and 1/3 from social welfare cuts = 3.9bn. It has been well covered in the media at this stage.

diverdriver

Flutterinbantam hit the nail on the head:

In my opinion given the timescale involved, the severity of the crisis,and the amounts involved, to even start a process involving "reform" would be madness.

It is needed and it can be done but it's far too late. It's a long term strategy and and a total reform of the PS is needed, not least to make it a better place to work.

The only viable short term fix is pay cuts and funding cuts. Medium and long term reform is desperately needed. It should have been started years ago but of course it wasn't because it would have caused strikes and unrest. Which naturally FF would never want. It's very bloody ironic the the PS unions should be advocating reform now when they would have stood boldly against in the past.

Oh and one other thing, reform includes job cuts and abolition of unneccessary waste, that includes whole departments. It will be bloody.

RealityCheck

gurramok wrote: »

Its only a small stepping stone. Also, would love to know where the other €2.7bn savings is coming from this yr...all welfare??

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2009/oct/11/jobs-to-be-lost-in-major-capital-spending-cuts-in-/

wrote:

The Department of Finance completed a confidential study in recent days showing the jobs which will be lost from proposed cuts in the €7.3bn the government spends on building roads, schools, hospitals and on public transport projects.
The new study, called the 'Direct Labour-Intensity of Capital Projects', is the clearest evidence yet that capital spending, and the tens of thousands it supports, will suffer a disproportionate share of the €4bn in budget cuts planned for 2010.

By cutting the capital spending by 1 billion. They'll take the easy way out to the detriment to some badly needed infrastructure.

SLUSK

MaceFace wrote: »

Yesterdays Indo said that Cowen may not impose pay cuts as it may be possible to achieve the savings through reform and efficiencies. How is this possible?

Also, why were these reforms and efficiencies not brought in before now?

I just don't understand how this is possible.

Please none of the usual PS bashing - try keep it honest and fair.

Get rid of Nama, slash the dole, slash public services, shut down museums and libraries. Who needs them when you got the internet. Cut all spending on sports, culture and other crap.

thebman

RealityCheck wrote: »

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2009/oct/11/jobs-to-be-lost-in-major-capital-spending-cuts-in-/

By cutting the capital spending by 1 billion. They'll take the easy way out to the detriment to some badly needed infrastructure.

Loads of jobs lost in private sector if they cut their private sector contracts so and no infrastructure that we desperately need.

Wonderful, best government ever

SLUSK wrote: »

Get rid of Nama, slash the dole, slash public services, shut down museums and libraries. Who needs them when you got the internet. Cut all spending on sports, culture and other crap.

NAMA debt is off the books, it makes no difference to the budget.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/nama.html

Heroditas

gurramok wrote: »

Thing is, lets say they did find this 1.3bn this year as outlined above. What about finding €4bn savings per year till 2013 in both PS pay and welfare?

Where else can they find these sums?? (yeh HSE admins should be severly targeted)

Its only a small stepping stone. Also, would love to know where the other €2.7bn savings is coming from this yr...all welfare??

I think they will allow "natural attrition" take care of a lot of the deficit. If public sector workers retire and are not replaced, that will save a lot.

Also, a cornerstone of reducing the deficit depends on the economy turning around and people returning to work. When they return to work, the government doesn't need to pay out the €200 a week (minimum) in social welfare and could very easily be picking up an additional €200 in PAYE. That's a swing of €20,000 per person per year for the exchequer - extrapolate that into 100,000 jobs or even 200,000 jobs and you have €2bn or €4bn more of the deficit gone.
Also, with increased spending power, this drives up the government take for VAT, excise duty, VRT etc.

The only problem is ........ where will the jobs come from?

gurramok

EF wrote: »

1/3 from public sector cuts, 1/3 from capital expenditure cuts and 1/3 from social welfare cuts = 3.9bn. It has been well covered in the media at this stage.

Surely they can't do that for year 2, 3 and 4 in the run up to 2013 to balance the books?

There must only so much room for reform to scale back 1/3 of public expenditure per yr. (assuming same for every yr). It just seems like a delaying tactic.

Sconsey

efb wrote: »

Start with the doubling over of HSE/Health Boards admin Staff.
Have central "Shared Services" units for all of the PS, HR, Property, Procurement, IR etc...

All nice ideas but will never happen because that would mean forced redundancy for permanent PS workers, the unions would be yelling strike from the rooftops. In my opinion, implementing better efficiency will mean lay-offs, which the government haven't got the stomach for so it will probably have to come from things like investment.

FlutterinBantam

Sconsey wrote: »

All nice ideas but will never happen because that would mean forced redundancy for permanent PS workers, the unions would be yelling strike from the rooftops. In my opinion, implementing better efficiency will mean lay-offs, which the government haven't got the stomach for so it will probably have to come from things like investment.

Like what??

Sconsey

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Like what??

Probably like the things RealityCheck points to in the article from the tribune (post is on the first page of this thread), capital investment mostly it looks like, decentalisation, etc.

Doubut it will fill the gap but also doubt the government have the balls to anything more.