What message did you take away from American History X? *SPOILERS!*

liah

I can't be bothered spoiler-tagging what's going to be pretty much my entire post, so if you haven't seen the film, do not read beyond this point unless you want it all spoiled.

I must've watched this film a hundred times now, and every time I watch it, I'm left unsure as to what to think about the ending.

They spend the entirety of the movie showing the dangers and horrors and pure vile ignorance of racism. Every time I watch the curb stomp scene, I cringe. Every time I hear Derek's pre-transformation propaganda, I shake my head. Every time I see the scene where they go into the grocery store, and that poor woman's face.. well, you get the idea. For some reason it's a film that hits me pretty hard.

Anyway, after Derek's transformation and after he comes back and tries to save Danny from becoming what Derek used to be.. the black kid kills Danny, resulting in one of the most touching performances I've ever seen by Ed Norton.

What point is that meant to illustrate? From a purely superficial point of view, after all that going on about how everyone's equal and blacks are the same salt as the rest of us, the black kid kills the white kid.

I'm still not sure what to think. On one hand, it enforces the message of the film, and on the other, it utterly shatters it.

I'm curious as to what everyone else has taken away from it, mainly to see what I've missed that everyone else has picked up on.

Otis Driftwood

Most of the time I think its about the importance of family(both direct family or extended ie friends) and the pain we can inflict on them,and them on us.

Eg the neo-nazis turning on Derek and the black guy protecting him in the aftermath,Dereks father and racist rhetoric moulded Derek into a cold blooded killer,Sweeney trying his best to help Derek and in turn Danny, etc.

Sometimes its other stuff.

Thats what makes it such an unforgettable movie.

heno86

yeh i think it packs a good punch and makes you really think about the subject matter,i suppose the message i would take is the rain falls on the just and unjust alike,just because you act the way society expects you too its no guarantee that you will be treated fairly or even humanely ie sh*t happens....but thats the world we live in,the reality is some of the most sadistic evil humans ever have managed to live long and successful lives while the most genuine and nicest can suffer from terminal diseases or suffer at the hands of the latter it's a lottery really

Magic Eight Ball

Sometimes repenting simply isn't enough and Ed Norton's character paid the ultimate price for his sins.

The movie is very much about family and in his warped attempt to protect his, he destroyed it forever.

Basq

I will never look at a curb the same way again!

TheIrishGrover

That black and white can still look AWESOME!!!!

irish_bob

im a pretty shallow person but heres what i read into it

right or wrong , we are all the same whether black or white , regardless of colour , most of us feel sometimes like we need to belong to a tribe or have a common identity , regardless of colour ,most of us sometimes feel fear and distrust towards what is different

Handsome Bob

I think the reason for the ending was because they wanted to put a bit of grim reality within a fantastical story. Derek is a racist. His little brother Danny buys into his rhetoric. Derek goes to jail and learns the error of his ways. Danny relinquishes his hatred when Derek shows him the error of his ways. It's too easy. So I think the ending is there to illustrate how difficult it is to go from one extreme to the other. You're left wondering whether Derek will have the strength in conviction to carry on with his new found beliefs, even though he's arguably back at square one; a death in the family where he could easily lay the blame at race.

Kersh

I only watched this film again last week. Brilliant piece of work. What I took from it is that there is a price to pay for everything we do. The black car thief paid with his life, Derek paid by going to prison and losing his brother. Everything we do has consequences, for ourselves and others.

indough

i dont think it was the originally intended ending anyway

CliffHuxtabel

that tony kaye should stick to directing ads

i think the black and white photography in this film was symbolic of the glib argument it was trying to make

halpin17

do not under any circumstance leave ur ass open to invation

KungPao

I think the overall message is that crime (or racism) doesn't pay.

But I think the writers gave another possible interpretation, and perhaps underhandedly, that Derek was right all along.....If you know what I mean.

But I'm an eternal cynic.

And to answer the original question....I don't know.....but that's what makes it such a good film.

Otis Driftwood

halpin17 wrote: »

do not under any circumstance leave ur ass open to invation

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Wow,that is outstanding.
Yer a real hero.
Really,you are.

liah

KungPao wrote: »

I think the overall message is that crime (or racism) doesn't pay.

But I think the writers gave another possible interpretation, and perhaps underhandedly, that Derek was right all along.....If you know what I mean.

But I'm an eternal cynic.

And to answer the original question....I don't know.....but that's what makes it such a good film.

See, that's the impression I got, but I'm a pretty cynical person myself.

It's just one of those films that could mean an endless amount of things, really, which is why I love it.

filthymcnasty

american history x is indeed a great film, visually and also for addressing a variety of touchy issues, such as inherent underlying racism in the US and also family values.
BUT! i find dereks conversion from alpha male leader of a bunch of neo-nazis, and then completely changing on the basis of becoming mates with one black guy in jail too simplistic in identifying why/how people change their extremist views. a leopard doesn't change its spots (not that quickly anyway)

sorry to go slightly off topic: that curb scence was gory alright, it got recognition in sopranos series 6 when tony does something similar to a rival family member

Running Bing

filthymcnasty wrote: »

american history x is indeed a great film, visually and also for addressing a variety of touchy issues, such as inherent underlying racism in the US and also family values.
BUT! i find dereks conversion from alpha male leader of a bunch of neo-nazis, and then completely changing on the basis of becoming mates with one black guy in jail too simplistic in identifying why/how people change their extremist views. a leopard doesn't change its spots (not that quickly anyway)

I can see what your saying but I think its more than that. Its also about him seeing the neo-nazi's in the prison and how they act and him having time to reflect on how hollow the whole thing is (as well as no doubt maturing while behind bars).

I like the ending because it shows there are consequences for your actions. Just because you make a positive change doesnt always mean everything is going to be rosey, thats not the way life works.

The fact that black kid kills white kid seems pretty inconsequential to me. Why does it have to be black kid kills white kid.....why cant it be one kid kills another kid?

The guys who tried to rob the house and the kid who shot Danny were thugs...because they we're black and because Dereks views were abhorrent doesnt change that......it also doesnt justify those views.

I like the ending a lot actually and its a feckin amazing film....you could easily watch it a hundred times.

liah

Running Bing wrote: »

The fact that black kid kills white kid seems pretty inconsequential to me. Why does it have to be black kid kills white kid.....why cant it be one kid kills another kid?

Well that's kind of the point. They made an active decision to use a black kid instead of any other kid. I'd assume this would be for a reason.

I do think what a lot of you have touched on by saying that even though you've changed for the better it's not always going to be rosy have a point.

I've seen the film used as an argument for racism because of that ending before, which is why I brought it up in the first place.

irish_bob

Running Bing wrote: »

I can see what your saying but I think its more than that. Its also about him seeing the neo-nazi's in the prison and how they act and him having time to reflect on how hollow the whole thing is (as well as no doubt maturing while behind bars).

I like the ending because it shows there are consequences for your actions. Just because you make a positive change doesnt always mean everything is going to be rosey, thats not the way life works.

The fact that black kid kills white kid seems pretty inconsequential to me. Why does it have to be black kid kills white kid.....why cant it be one kid kills another kid?

The guys who tried to rob the house and the kid who shot Danny were thugs...because they we're black and because Dereks views were abhorrent doesnt change that......it also doesnt justify those views.

I like the ending a lot actually and its a feckin amazing film....you could easily watch it a hundred times.

because black people are just as prone to vengance as white people , the black kid who shot edward furlong was the brother of the guy who ed norton killed

ziedth

irish_bob wrote: »

because black people are just as prone to vengance as white people , the black kid who shot edward furlong was the brother of the guy who ed norton killed

When does it say that? I really don't think so cause in the deleted scenes its that black kids brother that kicka the **** out of cameron and the fat guy. You only hear them talking about it in the movie.

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the orginal ending going to show ed norton shaving his head again and getting a gun? I always thought that.

To a certain extent i always too from the ending that it showed on a certain level derek was right( I do NOT believe this). I do like the idea whag some of yee are posting that he had to pay for his sins etc and i actually must watch it again to see.

KungPao

ziedth wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the orginal ending going to show ed norton shaving his head again and getting a gun? I always thought that.

That would have been an awful ending!.....I just played it out in my head.

Derek upset at the funeral

Derek goes home.... getting angry

Derek shaves his noggin

Derek packs some heat......because this time it's personal etc.

Something like that would have destroyed a great film.

Catenaccio!

I'd be asking questions as to why you haven't got the message after 100 viewings tbh.

liah

Catenaccio! wrote: »

I'd be asking questions as to why you haven't got the message after 100 viewings tbh.

When was it said that I didn't get the message? I was looking for interpretations. I already know what I think of it.

Catenaccio!

I'm curious as to what everyone else has taken away from it, mainly to see what I've missed that everyone else has picked up on.

I read that as you not being sure about the message of the film.

Fair enough if you got it but what a strange choice of film to watch one hundred times.

liah

Catenaccio! wrote: »

I read that as you not being sure about the message of the film.

Fair enough if you got it but what a strange choice of film to watch one hundred times.

Why? It's a film that can be interpreted quite a few different ways. Each time I view it, I get a different impression, which is why I said I'm still unsure as to how I interpret the film-- because each time isn't the same as the last. Obviously one hundred times is an exaggeration so I'm not sure why you keep digging at that, but alright.

Damo1174

I think yer boy derek is a fool.

Look he goes to jail and he makes friends with the neo nazis

He gets mad at them after he finds out they are doing business with the enemy.

He starts hanging out with a black guy himself...


Yo man wtf.... at the least the neos were just doing it for the money... why the fook did he do it?

Then he gets raped or whatever and turns even further against the neo nazi views.... WTF is up with that.. He changes his own beliefs and opinions because a group of his friends (who he thinks arent real nazis anyway) turn on him.

I think your boy derek is just lost...

Im a bit slow so anyway... if I missed some major point dont be suprised.

builttospill

Hmmm,

I find this thread a bit bemusing. The message I took away from American History X is the sad truth that producers and indeed over zealous actors can mess up a film. The writer and director Tony Kaye has washed his hands of that film cos Norton and the producers didn't like his first cut which was supposedly very auterish and artistic. They forced his hand and the result was a a big fat slice of commercial cinema. Don't get me wrong, the film is ok, but knowing Tony Kaye and hearing his views on it I reckon it could have been a whole lot better than the popcorn friendly, melodramatic monster it was.