No confidence - typical women issues

LegacyUser

This is a self-indulgent rant. I'm looking fo advice from people older and more experienced than myself. I'm 23 and have had one relationship that lasted 5 months.


When I go into a bar these days I've completely given up on trying to chat up women. This is stupid because on one level the impetous to go out in the first place is partly to with the possibility of meeting someone (and largely just to get plastered with my mates). At the risk of sounding vain, I am very good-looking. But I come across very nervous and awkward when chatting to people I don't know.


So in a pub, women want to attract men. But would they consider an awkward conversation at a bar a prospect (depending on what was talked about obviously) or would you deem the guy immature and move along. I am pretty mature but I get very erratic, anxious and paranoid. Those aren't traits of immaturity. Often people don't get over those issues until their middle-aged, if ever and they don't affect my close relationships, just how I deal with the rest of the worlds population. This is a head-wrecker for me because I have always clammed up when talking to attractive women (unless they are going out with my mates or there is no prospect for some reason) and I always will do. It is just a part of my character.


I have another problem though that I can't seem to shake. When I meet a girl I like I go into the process as though I have something to lose, as opposed to something to gain. I don't really know how to explicate this and i'm finding myself getting more uncomfortable as I try to consider it. I think I come across as controlling. Its very frustrating because I have no doubt that I'm intelligent and my opinions are well considered. I doubt myself and reconsider my views constantly. But even so, my views can be so much in contrast with the wave of consensus on things that I find myself pushing them very forcefully. The majority is always wrong, just by the nature of the majority. People ar vessels for ideas and usually can't justify them rationally. I am very antagonistic and controlling. Despite this fact I have a lot of mates and some very close ones that know me to be genuine and authentic. This, I think is the root of why I start from the position of entitlement and work myself through to a feeling of loss, once I've done enough to scare a girl off.


I'm feel meloncholy all the time and find it hard to get to sleep. I don't get up until 12 or 1 (I work evenings) and spend far too much time dwelling on losses or indulging my self-pity.

But I have a lot to offer a person. I've considered training myself as a PUA a few times. I think it is pretty chouvenistic (and laughable), but there is only so much time a guy can spend alone before he starts to see women this way. The fact that such ploys work just shows how many women leave themselves open to being completely by-passed intellectually or emotionally. It is easy for a guy to become cyinical and slightly resentful towards women when they can be subdued and manipulated in such a fashion. It goes against a lot of lads instincts and moral compass to treat with women so strategically and instrumentally, but those lads feel lost in the perception that women respond best and are most malleable when a lad has confidence, however false and unjustified.


Maybe I should just start a diary and keep it to myself. But sure, this is anonymous so it can't hurt. Thanks for reading.

OS119

older, hopefully wiser head.

OP, i've read what you've said and the negatives (just read them) are pretty negative.

you say that when you talk to people - and women are people - you are nervous, awkward, erratic, anxious, paranoid, antagonistic, controlling, melancholic, self-pitying, chauvanistic and convinved of your intellectual superiority - you also seem to have decided what all womens motives for being in a bar might be - to be lucky enough to meet someone like you!

on the good side, you look good in a shirt. you think.

in an effort to be helpful - though i'd suggest that reading and absorbing that list might help to lessen what looks like a fairly deep msyogenistic/sexist streak - the good thing is that you are aware of how you can come accross, which is obviously the big thing in terms of changing it.

the other thing is that you need to stop viewing every situation as a meet/don't meet situation, and to stop classing men and women differently - they are just people, some of whom you may fancy and some of whom you won't, - if you take the pressure off yourself and just talk to people without having decided what they mean to you you may find that the 'awkward, antagonistic git' in you doesn't rear his ugly head in pleasent conversation.

despite what you say about your maturity, the list of 'issues' at the top of this post (all your own words) is not indicative of maturity - that you recognise them however, is.

kenbrady

My take on this.

1. You have no confidence when it come to woman.
2. You think you are great and better than the lads who have confidence.
3. You think woman are silly for only being attracted to guys with confidence.

Being confident is not a trick it is part of who people are. Being confident means you are happy, outgoing and comfortable with yourself. These are very attractive traits and is why men/woman go for confident people.

You can't get a woman, are frustrated that other confident guys, who you think are inferior to you can, and this makes you feel frustrated and bitter towards woman, as you see it as a fault that they can't recognise how great you are.

You also seem to accept that you can't change and you will never have confidence. Anyone can gain confidence. It is done by getting out and doing things. Meeting new people and talking to them builds confidence, you will also see that a lot of people lack confidence but get on with their lives, this makes you feel less alone and different to everyone else. Doing new things gives you a sense of achievement and builds confidence.

The working nights could mean you lack routine and are not socialising with enough people, this is not healthy.

LegacyUser

OS119 wrote: »

older, hopefully wiser head.

OP, i've read what you've said and the negatives (just read them) are pretty negative.

you say that when you talk to people - and women are people - you are nervous, awkward, erratic, anxious, paranoid, antagonistic, controlling, melancholic, self-pitying, chauvanistic...

I am not chauvenistic or sexist - in any way. Both sexes are equally inferior to me;-)
That was a joke. But I'm not sexist. It is hard to justify that here, but I don't view men/women differently. The only way they are different is that I don't tend to fancy men, and I fancy women, therefore I have little intentions with regard to talking to men in pubs, where as I do contemplate chatting to women. I am not rude to anyone in pubs. I just tend to chat to my mates because I have particularly nice mates that share my interests. Maybe thats strange, but I really just don't feel comfortable around strangers - so I don't push myself into situations that I feel awkward in. Nothing I said could be reasonably construed as chuavenistic. When I used that word I was describing other lads that I know.

...and convinved of your intellectual superiority - you also seem to have decided what all womens motives for being in a bar might be - to be lucky enough to meet someone like you!

on the good side, you look good in a shirt. you think.

Convinced of my intellectual superiority - maybe! That is more comlicated than you have granted though. If you have an opinion that goes against the "wisdom" of the crowd or a general consensus then it is very difficult to argue for that opinion in a disussion and you can't seperate that opinion or belief from the real world of how you treat with people without being inconsistant. Doing that, in my opinion, is the root of a number of mental "illnesses". You are forced to root that opinion in solid ground - in order to retain your own sense of reason. I have a lot of those opinions. I don't control how I see the world. So if that is "superior" to you then fine - but I consider it reasonable.

I don't think women look for a guy like me. I don't know where you got that. Maybe that was your defensiveness with regard to my candor that projected that protention onto my character. It isn't true though. Women generally look for totally different kinds of guys I never implied otherwise.

I don't consider myself good-looking. I don't admire myself in the mirror. I am not vain, despite how it sounds. Women tell me I'm good-looking a lot. I did a bit of modelling work. The reason it sounds vain is because I am candid and blunt - but I don't value it in the slightest.

in an effort to be helpful - though i'd suggest that reading and absorbing that list might help to lessen what looks like a fairly deep msyogenistic/sexist streak [Not true]- the good thing is that you are aware of how you can come accross, which is obviously the big thing in terms of changing it.

the other thing is that you need to stop viewing every situation as a meet/don't meet situation, and to stop classing men and women differently - they are just people, some of whom you may fancy and some of whom you won't, - if you take the pressure off yourself and just talk to people without having decided what they mean to you you may find that the 'awkward, antagonistic git' in you doesn't rear his ugly head in pleasent conversation.

despite what you say about your maturity, the list of 'issues' at the top of this post (all your own words) is not indicative of maturity - that you recognise them however, is.

Maybe calling myself mature was an over-statement. But I have a lot of mature traits, and a lot of immature ones. I like a good argument. You hit some right notes though. Thank you for replying.

P.S. Let me add another negative to that list - Narcisistic.

G86

You're overthinking things to be honest. You seem so desperate NOT to come across as immaature that it's exactly what you end up doing. Try not to think of chatting up women as a 'mission' or a 'battle' you have to win, we're not the enemy, and alot of women want exactly what you want - in fact the majority do.

Confidence is extremely attractive, cockiness is not; if a guy came up to me in a bar who wasn't 'my type' but had a certain assertivenss about him then I'd be intrigued - I'd want to know more. However, if a good looking guy came up with a big cocky head on him then I'd be out the door in a shot. Women aren't 'prizes' to be won, there should be any game playing at all, you're saying you're being all of these negative things but why can't you just be yourself?

In fact, you're giving so many conflicting descriptions of yourself that it's hard to figure out what you're really like as a person from your post to be honest. You say you're good looking, yet you're not confident, surely you'd be confident in knowing that you're good looking?! This bit confuses me!

LegacyUser

Why does that confuse you? To me it is just an assertion. Women may fancy lads, but they don't value it as much as men. I don't think so anyway - and I don't think women can say thats totally wrong because they can't say for sure what its like for a man to find a woman attractive. I might be wrong, but I'd say other traits (more character driven) come into view for women much quicker and men become more attractive. This happens to men (or me atleast) but not to the same extent because lads are more focused on the short-term (just at first).

So I don't have confidence in my looks because I don't think it is worth as much to the women I'm lookin' for.

And I do try to be myself - thats the problem