Your number 1 idea to develop Rugby in Ireland

Tim Robbins

Right here's mine...

The IRFU organise an intensive 6 weeks introduction to Rugby course. This would run two nights a week over the summer as soon as tag ends and would be aimed at teaching people who have never played rugby before or who haven't played in a long while with the basics of the game.

There would be particular emphasis put on the things that intimidate most people who haven't played rugby, namely:

- Tackling
- Rucking
- Taking a hit and setting it up


The idea would be you have a fella who has reasonable hand to eye co-ordination learns how to tackle and he's not intimated to go down then to his local club. They are also meeting lads in the same boat i.e. beginners so they are not feeling silly or out of place.

It would also mean that clubs would know that if lads had done this course they had some concept of how to protect themselves and play the game safely.

The courses would be a nominal fee: say 50 quid. This should cover insurance. At the end of the course, participants are put in touch with clubs in the area, given contact names etc. If there's a gang of lads from one area, it might become obvious there's potential to set up a club out there.

The course would be aimed particularly at people who have taken up tag rugby and people coming to the end of the GAA seasons who just need a bit more help to be able to play full rugby.

Huge advertising campaigns could be run throughout the summer with a big name BOD or POC backing them.

I think the overall total cost of this would be minimal and would get hundreds extra playing rugby. It would also really help Leinster to get further out of the D4 niche and Cork to get out of their C4 niche. It would just spread the gospel. Think of how much lads playing GAA in Armagh or Tyrone would loe to give it a try.

What you think?

Amazotheamazing

Disband the Schools Cups.

Time and again we're being told that the nature of the comp is too restrictive and doesn't favour teaching kids skills ahead of teaching them bosh rugby. Also, there's a huge drop off of players after school as many aren't really affilated with clubs.

Might also go some way to removing the elitest image of the game in Dublin and Cork.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Disband the Schools Cups.

Time and again we're being told that the nature of the comp is too restrictive and doesn't favour teaching kids skills ahead of teaching them bosh rugby. Also, there's a huge drop off of players after school as many aren't really affilated with clubs.

Might also go some way to removing the elitest image of the game in Dublin and Cork.

What exactly do we do when the conveyor belt of young players coming out of the schools dries up? Awful idea.

RugbyFanatic

Also, there's a huge drop off of players after school as many aren't really affilated with clubs.

I don't know about in Cork but in Dublin every big school has an affliated club where the vast majority of the players that want to continue playing will play for if they do not get picked up by Leinster. The big drop off rate has less to do with non affliated clubs and more to do with the less dedicated players going into college wanting their weekends free in my experience. If a person wants to continue playing rugby they can easily find a club nearby, simple as.

ScrubsfanChris

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Disband the Schools Cups.

Time and again we're being told that the nature of the comp is too restrictive and doesn't favour teaching kids skills ahead of teaching them bosh rugby. Also, there's a huge drop off of players after school as many aren't really affilated with clubs.

Might also go some way to removing the elitest image of the game in Dublin and Cork.

Agree, many J1 and J2 clubs could do with alot more underage players coming up throught the ranks (U15, U17, U19) rather than picking up the scraps when they leave school.

My club is within 10 or 15 minutes driving distance from both Pres and Christians, so our underage section is still very much only developing, but our J1 panel is pretty big.

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

What exactly do we do when the conveyor belt of young players coming out of the schools dries up? Awful idea.

The players would still go to school, just find a better format than the outdated Cup format. Would like to see some sort of Academy structure in place for when kids turn 15 or 16, nothing too serious, just making sure the very best kids are learning skills, nutrition etc.

RugbyFanatic

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Agree, many J1 and J2 clubs could do with alot more underage players coming up throught the ranks (U15, U17, U19) rather than picking up the scraps when they leave school.

The scraps being those not picked up by the province's academies? You make it sounds like anyone who is not picked up by a provincial academy is terrible.

Firstly it is far better for their development that the best talent recieve specialist training with some of the countries best coaches in the provincial academies and secondly the players that are picked up by the provincial sides generally play for the first teams of the AIL teams anyway when the provinces allow them to play a match so they wouldn't be on the J1, J2 or Under 20s teams anyway.

RugbyFanatic

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The players would still go to school, just find a better format than the outdated Cup format. Would like to see some sort of Academy structure in place for when kids turn 15 or 16, nothing too serious, just making sure the very best kids are learning skills, nutrition etc.

They do have that. Its called the Leinster,Ulster,Munster,Connacht school's teams.

Tim Robbins

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

They do have that. Its called the Leinster,Ulster,Munster,Connacht school's teams.

They tried to have a Schools Cup done the same way as the Heineken Cup. 4 teams of 6. It would work in Leinster.

There's a huge number of schools in Leinster now playing at development level and there's a league systems for Section A and Section B schools.

[Jackass]

Marketing.

We have one of the best rugby products on the planet in the likes of Munster and Leinster and we have teams like Ulster and Connacht playing in a league against big teams.

If rugby drew the same hype as, say, English football does in this country, everything else would come naturally. People would naturally go to games and buy merchandise, raising revenue for the teams, improving facilities from senior level to grass routes, and of course, kids getting out and seeing their heros like Brian O'Driscoll or Paul O'Connell play in front of them on a Saturday afternoon will make them want to go out on a Sunday morning and play rugby and try and emulate these stars.

More so than Irish rugby, Magners League needs to get a strong marketing campaign together and get attendences up elsewhere, and needs to provide basic basic essentials, such as a sponsor (which took years to deliver) and a dedicated broadcaster (which has now collapsed). The biggest hinderence to Irish rugby is the 3 fu*king idiots sitting in a porto cabin in Glasgow running the league with facilities such as 1 laptop and a telephone. (or at least that's always how I've imagined it).

Looking at the growth in support for Leinster rugby over the last 2 to 3 years alone is nothing short of phenominal, and this is due to the branch launching a massive marketing campaign and making games family orientated and making matches a day out more than just 80 minutes of rugby, as well as improving facilities by moving to the RDS.

Munster is no different, pionered the movement in Irish rugby, but has been excellent at marketing a tradition and ethos and really tapped into the whole GAA philosiphy of community and dedication etc. which has been bought into the imagination of supporters.

Ulster and Connacht DO have that potential also. Political will within the IRFU is a different issue.

Amabokke

It all have to start with the schools.

Rugby camps during summer, provincial (county) competitions, juniors boot camps, seniors boot camps.

IRFU pump a bit of money into the development.

Amabokke

[Jackass] wrote: »

Marketing

This is seriously just going to waste IRFU's money with no quick turnaround value.

D.S.

Amabokke wrote: »

It all have to start with the schools.

Rugby camps during summer, provincial (county) competitions, juniors boot camps, seniors boot camps.

IRFU pump a bit of money into the development.

I disagree..it all has to start younger..much younger..

My idea is to really focus on youth development from a much younger age..The IRFU should focus on develop young players from the ages of 5/6/7 and upwards. Focusing on skills development and the general basics of rugby.

Each club should be paired off much more closely than currently with an affiliated school. So the club becomes a feeder for the schools game. Various mechanisms can be found for keeping the club/school affiliation alive and well. Sharing facilities (thus lowering costs for both), sharing of coaching staff, players playing some skills based games with clubs during summers, and playing the schools cup game during the normal calendar year. With this closer affiliation, there is room to encourage players to keep playing with their club after the schools game finishes out. The Leinster/Munster/Connacht/Ulster academies also benefit from having more rounded developed players.

The ethos of club/school spirit and 'union' should be fostered from an early age and I think this would provide a platform for much bigger take up and retention of players before/after schools rugby. It also has a nautural knock on effect of benefitting communities. Some clubs/schools already have this, but the format should be broadly adopted, properly funded, and organised by the IRFU and new opportunities to build this with new clubs and schools around the country should be made a priority.

This last point is probably my main point. Rugby has never been so successful or as popular as it has been now. Rugby is one of the few games where players of differing size and ability all have a place at all ages. The small guy has the potential to be the scrumhalf, the slower bigger framed/overweight child can be prop. This fundamental aspect of rugby, means that there rugby can embrace a much larger demographic of children than either Gaelic or Soccer. More children playing sport and getting involved benefits schools and benefits the wider community, particularly if the clubs/schools keep people engaged after the school experience. The IRFU has an unprecendented opportunity to push this point across to schools who currently do not have rugby teams and to encourage a much stronger club/school affiliation which would benefit the school and community, but also benefit the union through increasing the playing numbers, which down the line, will benefit the national team in terms of squad depth and quality.

The key to this idea, is that school/club/community can all benefit, and the IRFU if willing should fund it to the benefit of all.

The IRFU can build the club and school game, imo, at the very same time, using the one set of funds and encouraging greater facility/staff/player sharing between both.

I have been thinking about this for some while and I acknowledge everything is probably not that well thought out but I do think there is something in there the IRFU should be looking at.

ch2008

Our school had about 4 top class players in the year I played despite not being a top-tier school. We played one of the eventual finalists in the first round, got knocked out and the lads gave up rugby. All that effort for 1 game?

A league format would suit better and give game time to those teams who aren't realistically gonna win it.

RugbyFanatic

ch2008 wrote: »

Our school had about 4 top class players in the year I played despite not being a top-tier school. We played one of the eventual finalists in the first round, got knocked out and the lads gave up rugby. All that effort for 1 game?

A league format would suit better and give game time to those teams who aren't realistically gonna win it.

Eh if you get knocked out before the 1/4 final you get entered into a league.

And there was nothing to stop those players joining clubs after.

ch2008

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Eh if you get knocked out before the 1/4 final you get entered into a league.
.

I think the more games you play against better teams the better you become. If you had a group with 6 teams for example you'd get 10 games, 4 of which are likely to be against top class teams

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Eh if you get knocked out before the 1/4 final you get entered into a league.

And there was nothing to stop those players joining clubs after.

True, but 15 year old boys sometimes need to be convinced. Some don't have a family/social link to a club and its easier just to go play football or gaa with their mates instead of joining a club full of stangers.

Playing the extra few games might ensure they get hooked and could also allow the clubs to scout players who might not come onto their radar

RugbyFanatic

ch2008 wrote: »

I think the more games you play against better teams the better you become. If you had a group with 6 teams for example you'd get 10 games, 4 of which are likely to be against top class teams

Blackrock
Terenure
St.Marys
Clongowes
St.Micheals
CBC Monkstown
Belvedere

Of those in the unlikely event that none of them met each other before the semis you will get 2 of them in the shield. Usually at least 3 or 4 of them are in it however so there certainly is top quality opposition in the shield.

True, but 15 year old boys sometimes need to be convinced. Some don't have a family/social link to a club and its easier just to go play football or gaa with their mates instead of joining a club full of stangers.

Wait so they left school when they were 15?

Playing the extra few games might ensure they get hooked and could also allow the clubs to scout players who might not come onto their radar

And thats what they do in the Shield, play extra games.

ch2008

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Blackrock
Terenure
St.Marys
Clongowes
St.Micheals
CBC Monkstown
Belvedere

Of those in the unlikely event that none of them met each other before the semis you will get 2 of them in the shield. Usually at least 3 or 4 of them are in it however so there certainly is top quality opposition in the shield.





Wait so they left school when they were 15?




And thats what they do in the Shield, play extra games.

Eh, well I was 15 in 3rd year and yes some people leave school at the end of third year, by which time they are probably 16. We were mostly 15 when we got knocked out. This is a bit off thread though...

The league doesnt really have the appeal that the JC or SC have though. The longer you're in the tournament the more exciting it is. It would be nice to get a crack at Blackrock/Terenure/Clongowes etc more than once though. Can only help development

Amabokke

D.S. wrote: »

I disagree..it all has to start younger..much younger..

My idea is to really focus on youth development from a much younger age..The IRFU should focus on develop young players from the ages of 5/6/7 and upwards. Focusing on skills development and the general basics of rugby.

Ok, let's see. The IRFU starts a new incentive rugby programme for 5 year olds from 2010. In 15 years time the 5 year olds of next year will be good enough to play for Ireland at age 20. Does Ireland really want to wait another 15 years before seeing any results.

Teenagers are always quicker and eager learners than adults and nothing wrong in starting with primary and secondary schools to get quicker results for your investment.

D.S.

Amabokke wrote: »

Ok, let's see. The IRFU starts a new incentive rugby programme for 5 year olds from 2010. In 15 years time the 5 year olds of next year will be good enough to play for Ireland at age 20. Does Ireland really want to wait another 15 years before seeing any results.
.

The Southern Hemisphere sides always get there youngsters playing early. at the ages of 5/6.

And yes we should be prepared to build a longer and better assembly line than the one we do have...our system is not broken but it does have some serious issues..

- small playing base
- v significant drop out rate after schools
- diminishing club game
- skills base of irish players still lacks that of the southern hemisphere at the grass roots level

All the above can be overcome imo by linking the club and schools games more closely..

Amabokke wrote: »

Teenagers are always quicker and eager learners than adults and nothing wrong in starting with primary and secondary schools to get quicker results for your investment.

This is the most obvious statement in the world, but my point was that we should get them before they are teenagers and not when adults.

Quicker results also don't always mean better results.

ch2008

May I be the first to mention John Hayes as a late comer to the sport. That is all

RugbyFanatic

ch2008 wrote: »

May I be the first to mention John Hayes as a late comer to the sport. That is all

A freakish exception. Doubt we'll see many John Hayes'es for a long time to come!

danthefan

Keith Wood was another late comer. Rare exceptions though.

Amabokke

D.S. wrote: »

The Southern Hemisphere sides always get there youngsters playing early. at the ages of 5/6.

- skills base of irish players still lacks that of the southern hemisphere at the grass roots level

Quicker results also don't always mean better results.

That's because it was always part of our culture. I started playing Bulletjie rugby "Little Bull rugby" when I was 5 and so did every other 5 year old because that was just the way. It's been like that for generations.

Alot of the existing coloured players in SA only started playing in their teens because of apartheid.

JP Peterson only started when he was 18, Habana also only as a teenager,

That fast dude from USA (playing now for Biarritz) also only started in his late teens.

themont85

I doubt the schools want a H Cup style format due to the academic challenges presented to most players being in 6th year. I would favour it but I doubt they want it.

Disbanding the schools cups in madness, that would be Irish rugby cutting its arms off because those schools provide most of player development certainly in Leinster and Ulster anyway. Leinster already have players at underage in the 'system' from 15 onwards and they take them from the schools for matches for a number of weeks until December and then those picked for Ireland after the Cups.

D.S.

Amabokke wrote: »

That's because it was always part of our culture. I started playing Bulletjie rugby "Little Bull rugby" when I was 5 and so did every other 5 year old because that was just the way. It's been like that for generations.

Alot of the existing coloured players in SA only started playing in their teens because of apartheid.

JP Peterson only started when he was 18, Habana also only as a teenager,

That fast dude from USA (playing now for Biarritz) also only started in his late teens.

You are picking out players who started out older as examples that older players can start later and be as successful. I don't disagree with this but these people are the exceptions to the rule. Plus these people tend to be natural athletes who would be successful at any sport.

The point is that 1) by getting players younger you have a better chance of indoctrinating them to the sport and keeping them loyal, 2) getting a much wider playing base by targeting more clubs/schools together thus capturing much more of these natural athletes who will compete at the highest level.

Unless you can tell me of a way to pick out these older players on a regular basis and provide a sure fire system to get these to the top that beats the youth system, then what you are talking about is Ireland getting lucky from older players coming into the sport, not that older players can be a system the IRFU can target on a regular and consistent basis to improve the pipeline of top Irish rugby athletes..

anonymous_joe

Hmmm. Not too much to suggest but one or two things;

1. Encourage more 7's play. Great for developing individual skills, moreover, helps with fitness of certain crucial positions, especially backrow forwards.

2. Greater emphasis placed on the league aspect of schools rugby, perhaps with only the top 8 or so schools going into the 'knockout' stages.

3. Less attempts to drive fans out of the game in the search for new ones. A lot of people hate the schools game, hate the posh fans, etc. Well they've always been crucial for the game in this country, alienating them serves no-one.

Ceartgoleor

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The players would still go to school, just find a better format than the outdated Cup format. Would like to see some sort of Academy structure in place for when kids turn 15 or 16, nothing too serious, just making sure the very best kids are learning skills, nutrition etc.

I played rugby at various different levels and the most enjoyable rugby I ever played was schools rugby, to suggest disbanding the schools cups is just ridiculous. Club rugby is great, but schools rugby is the lifeblood of the game here.

Restructuring the competition, and expanding them is not a bad idea but its ridiculous to take a current area of strength for Irish rugby and think that by scrapping it Irish rugby will improve overall.

FridaysWell

Everyone please admit it, no-one really cares about underage rugby. Especially at club level. There are a huge amount of brilliant players out there that do not play for school teams, that are basically treated like **** by the provincial branches. Well, in Leinster at least, thats all I can speak for. The competitions are run like a joke, the officiating a joke, even getting information on fixtures etc is a bloody joke. My team had to pull out of the Leinster League because there was only 4 poxy teams in the league. And the Metropoloitian League we are in now is an even bigger joke. Half my team is made up of schools players, the rest of us much like me. We play because we love the game, and we've grown as a squad over the years. I would love to play in a 'world class' competition such as the schools cups but I can't because my school refuse to make a rugby team, not because we don't have the facilities, not because we don't have the players, simply out of spite, because the place is run by some GAA chairman cousin/inbred/dunno-what-connection . . .
You want to develop rugby in Ireland? Start by developing world class competitions for clubs and schools. Develop rugby in non-playing schools. Give these players an incentive to play. Don't coach the crap out of them.
Nurture and develop a LOVE of the game. Rugby as a SPORT.


Half of the people on this island (well, at least alot of people) dislike everything got to do with rugby for various reasons.
Because its 'posh'.
'Elitist'.
Rubbish. I live and play in the heart of all that, and thats rubbish. Rugby is more welcoming than GAA or football me thinks.
The question is how to change this view?
I say try attract people. Develop. Expand. Grow the game, plant new seeds for new teams, nurture the young clubs and keep the old bastions of rugby.
But only welcome true fans, that truly love the GAME, the sport.

Then rugby will grow.

laugh

Cheerleaders at half time.

End all forms of Nepotism;)

Goodluck2me

Amabokke wrote: »

This is seriously just going to waste IRFU's money with no quick turnaround value.

disagree totally, look at leinster.

danthefan wrote: »

Keith Wood was another late comer. Rare exceptions though.

Its different for props as people dont know until their late teens whether they will be big enough for it.
The reason they could take it up successfully was due to their size.

hiney

If a player is not willing to play rugby after school because they lost in the first round in a cup do they have the right mentality to ever play professional rugby ?

The cup format the way it is , will never change , or at least not for a very long time . The way it is run is what makes it so special , players want to be part of the history and prestige . It is the leinster branches job to increase interest and level of competition in the club game and the weaker school sides . Messing with the schools cups would be detrimental for the Irish game.

RugbyFanatic

FridaysWell wrote: »

Everyone please admit it, no-one really cares about underage rugby. Especially at club level.

If you are referring to U20s at club level then you are dead wrong. Many players on Leinster U18s and Leinster U19s are playing for U20 club teams in Leinster and it is highly competitive. In fact in most clubs the U20s will get main pitch preference over even the J1s.

There are a huge amount of brilliant players out there that do not play for school teams, that are basically treated like **** by the provincial branches. Well, in Leinster at least, thats all I can speak for.

Incorrect. There are several players from clubs such as Naas that are currently involved in the Leinster U18 and U19 set up that never played for school teams. Also I know of players who were called up to Leinster trials based on their club form alone.

The competitions are run like a joke, the officiating a joke,

The school's cup is no better, even the Magners League is atrocious.

even getting information on fixtures etc is a bloody joke.

Surely it would be quite easy to ask your coach who your playing at training during the week?

My team had to pull out of the Leinster League because there was only 4 poxy teams in the league.

Why don't you go to a different club? Theres plenty of leagues with lots of clubs in Leinster.

And the Metropoloitian League we are in now is an even bigger joke. Half my team is made up of schools players, the rest of us much like me.

Whats the problem here? You have a good mix of sct players and players from the club game, surely this is a good thing!

I would love to play in a 'world class' competition such as the schools cups but I can't because my school refuse to make a rugby team

Thats why there are clubs and as I have already said if your good enough playing for your club the Leinster selectors will take notice.

You want to develop rugby in Ireland? Start by developing world class competitions for clubs and schools.

I would certainly consider the Leinster Senior Cup to be the most competitive underage competition in NH rugby.

Develop rugby in non-playing schools.

Thats what teams like Leinster are trying to do by going out to places like Clondalkin and Wexford. But its hardly the IRFU's fault if a school like yours just flat out refuses because of GAA traditions. Out of interest if you really want to play SCT rugby that bad why don't you move school?

Give these players an incentive to play. Don't coach the crap out of them.

Nothing wrong with coaching players to a high degree, it seperates those who really want to be there from those who dont.

Half of the people on this island (well, at least alot of people) dislike everything got to do with rugby for various reasons.
Because its 'posh'.

If they dislike rugby for such a petty reason then they are hardly going to be great contributers to the game anyway. Honestly I don't want fans that look down on people because of how much money they earn.

'Elitist'.

There are clubs all over dublin the notion that rugby is elitist is not right. No one is stopping anyone from joining a club. The fact that it is not played in some schools is down to the schools themselves.

siltirocker

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

A freakish exception. Doubt we'll see many John Hayes'es for a long time to come!

His 6 nations cover Tom McCourt played his first game of rugby at like 22 or something.

bamboozle

-Appoint Eddie O'Sullivan Coach of Connacht & Irish U20's
-pump IRFU Money into a strong Connacht academy where focus is on these players getting Magners league exposure with Connacht far quicker than they would at other provinces.
-Incentivise AIL Clubs to have Irish coaches to ensure there are quality Irish coaches coming through
-Oblige provinces to play at least 2 magner's league games in a non traditionally rugby area of their province each season, back this up with coaching clinics in these areas

AdeT

bamboozle wrote: »

-Incentivise AIL Clubs to have Irish coaches to ensure there are quality Irish coaches coming through
-Oblige provinces to play at least 2 magner's league games in a non traditionally rugby area of their province each season, back this up with coaching clinics in these areas

These are two good ideas. All clubs should also develop coach development plans so they can , where viable, promote from within - develops the community aspect of the club too. This may be already in place but I'm in the UK now so slightly out of the loop club-wise

In Oz, Rugby League clubs in NRL move games to other venues annually in a bid to draw in more support. This is particularly noticable in Sydney where the Western suburbs are a RL hotbed and there are plenty of clubs to see. If you send the players to schools in the weeks leading up to the game the kids will more likely want to attend to see the players they've met. Throw some free/very discounted tickets about to these kids and you'll have fans for life.

zenmonk

Develop Connacht rugby full stop.
We need a 4th Irish province , with a proper panel, stadium.

Chucky the tree

The only problem I have with schools system is the aim is to win and not really develop skills. The Leinster acdamey started up recently enough didn't it? You can see how big of impact it's had on players coming through. If players were put into an academy system at 15 or 16 and worked on skills they'd be even better.

Tim Robbins

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Thats what teams like Leinster are trying to do by going out to places like Clondalkin and Wexford. But its hardly the IRFU's fault if a school like yours just flat out refuses because of GAA traditions. Out of interest if you really want to play SCT rugby that bad why don't you move school?

In fact there's quite of schools playing rugby at development level.

Here are this week's fixtures:

Monday 19th October:

This weeks schools fixtures at dev level wrote:

Schools Junior Development Cup 2nd Round: Castleknock C.C. v Hartstown C.S. , at Coolmine, 2:00; Portmarnock C.S. v Chanel College , at Malahide, 2:00; Firhouse C.S. v Salesians College , at Firhouse school, 2:00; Colaiste Lorcain v Confey College , at Athy, 1:30; Tullow C.S. v Ard Scoil na Trionoide , at Tullow, 2:00; Lucan C.C. v Malahide C.S. , at Lucan C.C., 2:00; St. Mary's Drogheda v Balbriggan C.S. , at Boyne, 2:00; Drogheda Grammar v Dundalk Grammar , at Dundalk Grammar, 2:00; Bridgetown C.S. v Colaiste Bhride Carnew , at Wexford, 2:00; CBS New Ross v CBS Enniscorthy , at New Ross, 2:00; CBS Wexford v St. David's , at Wexford, 2:00

The following schools were awarded walkovers in the Junior Development Cup - St. Finian's Mullingar, Moyne Community School, Ashbourne Community School and Gorey Community School

Metro J1 League - Section B: Bective Rangers v UCD , at Donnybrook, 8:00;

Tuesday, 20th October:

Schools Junior Development Cup 2nd Round: St. Mary's Dundalk v Ratoath C.C. , at Dundalk, 2:00;
Schools Senior Development Cup 3rd Round: Balbriggan C.S. v Portmarnock C.S. , at Malahide, 12:00; Maynooth P.P. v CBS Enniscorthy , at North Kildare, 2:30;

Wednesday 21st October:

Schools Senior Development Cup 3rd Round: Dunboyne C.S. v St. Fintan's , at Suttonians, 12:30; Hartstown C.S. v Chanel College , at Coolmine, 2:00; St. Mel's College v Moyne C.S. , at Longford, 2:30; Ard Scoil na Trionoide v Tullow C.S. , at Athy, 2:00; Gorey C.S. v CBS New Ross , at New Ross, 2:00;

I think that's an incredible achievement getting all those schools playing rugby at some level.

There are clubs all over dublin the notion that rugby is elitist is not right. No one is stopping anyone from joining a club. The fact that it is not played in some schools is down to the schools themselves.

It's got a lot better. But I still think the aim should to make the most welcoming sport in Ireland. That's surely the way to rid the elitist tag once and for all.

You can get some recent results here:

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/3858.php

FridaysWell

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

If you are referring to U20s at club level then you are dead wrong. Many players on Leinster U18s and Leinster U19s are playing for U20 club teams in Leinster and it is highly competitive. In fact in most clubs the U20s will get main pitch preference over even the J1s.

U20 is technically underage, I agree. I'm on about younger ages. That is true however, it is quite competitive. I have played a few times at this level but I'm too young to start.

Incorrect. There are several players from clubs such as Naas that are currently involved in the Leinster U18 and U19 set up that never played for school teams. Also I know of players who were called up to Leinster trials based on their club form alone.

Those Leinster teams you talk about are youth teams, for club players only, which differienciates (spellling wrong? ) them from the Schools representitive teams. Do you not think I know that, I have played there!
They are still treated badly in terms of quality of coaches, awareness, equipment, training, future exposure etc.

The school's cup is no better, even the Magners League is atrocious.

The schools cup is alot better though, you must admit. Alot better. . .

Surely it would be quite easy to ask your coach who your playing at training during the week?

Oh come on. You know what I bloody well mean! We have our own fixtures list, that keeps getting changed and moved around. It would be nice to have one up on the website, along with some news etc. At least then it would look serious. If you play serious rugby and you love your game, we want it that way.

Why don't you go to a different club? Theres plenty of leagues with lots of clubs in Leinster.

You know, your not really spoiled for choice when it comes to playing at this level in terms of GOOD teams. My team is good, I've played with that squad for years now, I'm not going to leave untill college! Its a question of having teams to play against.

Whats the problem here? You have a good mix of sct players and players from the club game, surely this is a good thing!

Em, sorry did I say that was a problem??? Don't nit pick and take things out of context please, they are my team mates and friends, why would I be giving out about them? I was complaining about the League we are in now.

Thats why there are clubs and as I have already said if your good enough playing for your club the Leinster selectors will take notice.

I'm not worried about getting picked up by selectors! I've already been there, got my experience, great it was. I want to play good rugby in a good competition.

I would certainly consider the Leinster Senior Cup to be the most competitive underage competition in NH rugby.

That is true, but it can be improved. Alot more so, the club comps too.

Thats what teams like Leinster are trying to do by going out to places like Clondalkin and Wexford. But its hardly the IRFU's fault if a school like yours just flat out refuses because of GAA traditions. Out of interest if you really want to play SCT rugby that bad why don't you move school?

Did I say it was the IRFU's fault??
I was complaining about my school.

To answer that question, a few of us tried to get a team going, as we have a good core of players (Leinster reps + Ireland club caps). Every year we got an empty promise of 'next year' By 5th year we gave up and by that time I was used to the school, teachers, my friends etc. No point moving other then rugby. I got the choice from the start of what school to head to and NOW I wish i had chosen Terenure or Marys, not the place where most of my friends where going! :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with coaching players to a high degree, it seperates those who really want to be there from those who dont.

I do agree, but sometimes the passion and love of a game can be coached out.

If they dislike rugby for such a petty reason then they are hardly going to be great contributers to the game anyway. Honestly I don't want fans that look down on people because of how much money they earn.

Did I not make that clear? 'Only true fans'??:rolleyes:

There are clubs all over dublin the notion that rugby is elitist is not right. No one is stopping anyone from joining a club. The fact that it is not played in some schools is down to the schools themselves.

Did I not say that people thinkning its Posh and Elitisit was rubbish????
Was I not clear no?
I live and play in the heart of this stuff, and exactly no-one is stopping people from joining a club. . .

Don't nit pick . . .

RugbyFanatic

FridaysWell wrote: »

U20 is technically underage, I agree. I'm on about younger ages. That is true however, it is quite competitive. I have played a few times at this level but I'm too young to start.

If you're on about younger then the same is true in schools rugby. Under age rugby is always going to see less interest than senior rugby, club or school.

Those Leinster teams you talk about are youth teams, for club players only, which differienciates (spellling wrong? ) them from the Schools representitive teams. Do you not think I know that, I have played there!
They are still treated badly in terms of quality of coaches, awareness, equipment, training, future exposure etc.

I'm talking about the actual Leinster U18s and U19s. There are several players from clubs and not schools on them.

The schools cup is alot better though, you must admit. Alot better. . .

Yeah but then once you leave school the club U20s is the bar standard and anyone can join any club in the top division if they're good enough.

Oh come on. You know what I bloody well mean! We have our own fixtures list, that keeps getting changed and moved around. It would be nice to have one up on the website, along with some news etc. At least then it would look serious. If you play serious rugby and you love your game, we want it that way.

Well I know for a fact club U20s level have a full fixture list and a website for upcoming fixtures.

You know, your not really spoiled for choice when it comes to playing at this level in terms of GOOD teams

What are you talking about there are plenty of Leinster teams in the top divisions of Irish club rugby

. My team is good, I've played with that squad for years now, I'm not going to leave untill college! Its a question of having teams to play against.

Well if your team is so good surely they would be in the top division? I'm not really getting you here about having teams to play against.. are you in the AIL or not?

I was complaining about the League we are in now.

Either move club, or be prepared to play in a lower standard league with your friends if your club isn't getting promoted.

I'm not worried about getting picked up by selectors! I've already been there, got my experience, great it was. I want to play good rugby in a good competition.

Once again, go to a top division club then.

Did I say it was the IRFU's fault??
I was complaining about my school.

Its a thread about what the IRFU can do to improve rugby so I took it as you thinking the IRFU should of forced your school to play.

Did I not say that people thinkning its Posh and Elitisit was rubbish????
Was I not clear no?
I live and play in the heart of this stuff, and exactly no-one is stopping people from joining a club. . .

Don't nit pick . . .

Ummmmm was I not backing your point up....

TorresDaLegend

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Eh if you get knocked out before the 1/4 final you get entered into a league.

And there was nothing to stop those players joining clubs after.

Eh nope , not anymore, league formats have been abolished because supervision in schools etc, teachers cant take as much time outta class anymore so its now a knockout.

We were in the Development Cup, got knocked out and now we're in the Shield If we get beaten in that then we're fcked and no more games, cept a few friendlies maybe.

Is the Fingal Cup running this year ?

FridaysWell

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I'm talking about the actual Leinster U18s and U19s. There are several players from clubs and not schools on them.

At these age levels there are TWO Leinster teams. U18 Schools. U18 Club(Youths).

Well I know for a fact club U20s level have a full fixture list and a website for upcoming fixtures.

Im talking about U19 below. Not bloody U20s which is U21s now BTW.

What are you talking about there are plenty of Leinster teams in the top divisions of Irish club rugby

AT U19 LEVEL!!!!!!

Well if your team is so good surely they would be in the top division? I'm not really getting you here about having teams to play against.. are you in the AIL or not?

WE are in the top didvision at U19s our league had to be abondoned because the fact that there where 4-5 teams, now we playing in a crapper league.

There is no AIL at U19s level!
When I'm done in school, I will play for my college or a different club!

The IRFU can improve the game here by FULLY developing the UNDERAGE Club game.

Clear? :D

hiney

There are four leinster sides at under 18 n under 19 ! 18 Youths and 18 schools , 19 club and 19 schools !!

Alot of my mates who played schools cup rugby last year are eligible to play under 19 this year aswel but have moved straight up to under 21s as they are too good to play in the under 19 comps .

Fridays Well alot of clubs have an Under 21s second side these days , would you not consider playing for one of them as its a higher standard than Under 19 yet not as intense as the jp flanagan premier ?

Macsimus

#1 idea to develop rugby in Ireland

Keep winning - particularly Ireland. Success on the pitch will do more than any other factor to develop the sport here, as has been shown for the last decade. Why are people so afraid of new fans? Attracting new fans is the only way we can grow our sport.

After that, keep trying to get new schools playing & invest in and support clubs and their competitions. Invest in training workshops for coaches of all levels. And keep a real eye on prospects from clubs who wont be in the schools teams - Club players from non sct backgrounds need to know if they're good enough and work hard enough that they'll be looked at for academy spots.

RugbyFanatic

At these age levels there are TWO Leinster teams. U18 Schools. U18 Club(Youths).

There are those teams but theres also an all inclusive Leinster U19 and Leinster U20 squad for the top players. Gavin Nyawata is an example of a player who was picked for the Leinster U19 main team based on his club form alone.

Im talking about U19 below. Not bloody U20s which is U21s now BTW.

If you're good enough you'll be picked for the U20 team, there are plenty of 18 year olds on my local club's U20 team.

WE are in the top didvision at U19s our league had to be abondoned because the fact that there where 4-5 teams, now we playing in a crapper league.

What age are you? Surely if your 17 or above then playing for U20s with mostly 17-20 year old players is not above you? I can't really understand why any club would have an U19s when there is an U20s AIL league seems very overkill and thats probably why there isn't many teams in the U19 league.

There is no AIL at U19s level!
When I'm done in school, I will play for my college or a different club!

Once again because there is an U20s league that is supposed to have mostly 19 year olds playing.

RugbyFanatic

Macsimus wrote: »

#1 idea to develop rugby in Ireland

Keep winning - particularly Ireland. Success on the pitch will do more than any other factor to develop the sport here, as has been shown for the last decade. Why are people so afraid of new fans? Attracting new fans is the only way we can grow our sport.

Easier said than done but your right. In the last 18 months the level of new fans has been astonishing after the success of Ireland and Leinster.

Invest in training workshops for coaches of all levels.

They do that already, very beneficial and the results are starting to be seen in the last few years as better trained players are starting to come through.

And keep a real eye on prospects from clubs who wont be in the schools teams - Club players from non sct backgrounds need to know if they're good enough and work hard enough that they'll be looked at for academy spots.

And once again they do that already, there are club players on the Leinster main U19 and U20 squads. It really is a myth that only SCT players get looked at its just a case that a lot of kid's who play and love rugby growing up tend to want to go to rugby schools and as such widely renowned rugby schools such as Belvedere, Blackrock, Terenure, St.Marys, Clongowes etc. tend to produce the majority of the players on academey squads

Macsimus

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

It really is a myth that only SCT players get looked at its just a case that a lot of kid's who play and love rugby growing up tend to want to go to rugby schools and as such widely renowned rugby schools such as Belvedere, Blackrock, Terenure, St.Marys, Clongowes etc. tend to produce the majority of the players on academey squads

The vast majority of kids in this country will never be able to afford to go to one of the schools you mentioned no matter how much they love rugby. If we want to capitalise on Rugby's current popularity, we need to cast a wider net..

The more Trevor Brennan's and Keith Earl's we can get playing the game the better - look at the response from the Munster crowd when Earls gets his hands on the ball - Irish people love a working class hero.

RugbyFanatic

Macsimus wrote: »

The vast majority of kids in this country will never be able to afford to go to one of the schools you mentioned no matter how much they love rugby. If we want to capitalise on Rugby's current popularity, we need to cast a wider net..

Thats why more schools need to start playing but the IRFU can't really force them to. It really is a case of traditional GAA schools not wanting to have to compete with rugby for their playing numbers as seen in FridayWell's case.

Macsimus

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Thats why more schools need to start playing but the IRFU can't really force them to. It really is a case of traditional GAA schools not wanting to have to compete with rugby for their playing numbers as seen in FridayWell's case.

Absolutely - but if the schools wont take up the sport, the only other real avenue for growth is through the clubs.

We cannot blame gaa schools for wanting to protect their traditional sport - the same problems exist in reverse in lots of Rugby schools - I went to a primarily rugby school and we had to put together several petitions before we finally were allowed to have a soccer and gaa team and this only after one of the brothers stepped down as principal and a lay man came in.